Nitrogen

[Michael Vandenbroeck]

Has any member over used nitrogen in their tires, and if so, what have the results been? I just put new tires on my vehicle and the dealer placed nitrogen in them instead of regular air, saying it was better and the tires lasted longer and ran cooler. I'd appreciate any members comments or observations from personal experiences. Thanks.

[goonster]

Doesn't make sense in any application where pressure is checked frequently, imo.

[false_Aest]

Air is like 78% nitrogen. I dunno if any of us would feel a difference with another 22%.

Maybe in a car . . . if you're driving a F1.

I, personally prefer hydrogen for explosive power boosts.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air

[sw3759]

unless you have free and real easy access to it.like a big nitrogen bottle laying around it's not worth the hassle.i used to use it in motorcycle suspension systems and what not.if you use latex tubes it wont bleed thru as quickly other than that you won't tell any difference.


Scott

[MsRN]

You're not, by chance, driving a BMW? My local dealer is now offering N2 with special caps and a life time fill guarantee for the tires. Ostensibly, 100% N2 in your tires reduces internal oxidation (makes sense), and since N2 has a coefficient of expansion of 0.8, to O2s 1.0, there's less thermal cycling of the tire. Also, since N2 molecules are about 3x the size of O2 molecules, the tires lose pressure much less easily (less leakage). End benefit: improved tire wear, and better mileage due to more consistent pressures across a range of temperatures, and less rolling resistance. Or, so I'm told.

Rumor has it Costco is fillng their tires with N2 now, and offering free lifetime top-ups. While I'm sure they build it into the cost of their tires, it's Costco, folks; so why add a perq that does nothing if you're trying to sell value and cheap?

For my $0.02, when I put on new summers (at $800-$1200 a set), I'll spring for the N2 fill, to see if it helps tire wear or mileage. Your opinions may vary!

Best,

M :)

[Joellogicman]

so why add a perq that does nothing if you're trying to sell value and cheap?

because the add on is so inexpensive the extra visits from a potential shopper are worth it ... When will the crack CostCo R&D team be providing us with reams of peer evaluated data showing the advantages of all nitrogen tire pressure?

[Kingfisher]

Costco put new michelins on my wife's honda last year with nitrogen. All I can say is that they have remained constant at the oem pressure for the entire year, no issues. It's nice not to have to worry about putting air in every so often to bring back to factory specs. I just put new tires on my truck yesterday at costco and they put in nitrogen and i'm happy.....i'd rather not worry about tire pressure on my vehicles.

[Joellogicman]

Unless you run a reasonable sample of tire fillers in the same tires, on the same car, under the same conditions. Your experience could just as soon be the result of lunar gravitational forces from the data you have at present.

[OtayBW]

O2 and N2 are very similar in size; CO2 is perhaps very slightly smaller effective diameter due to shape. Any effect would have to consider tube porosity/diffusion as well. Think I'll stick with my Silca floor pump.

Yes, and that lunar gravitational thing as well ^^. :D

[flickwet]

get a flat...laugh it off, hard climb? push the go button. but seriuosly folks, Air being 78% nitrogen and the smaller balance gasses tend to bleed off then the final remaining elemental gasses in the tire would approach 100% nitrogen after repeated "top offs"

[MattTuck]

Call mythbusters. inquiring minds want to know.

[Ken Robb]

Nitrogen has been used on some competition cars because the drivers feel that the pressure increase as the tire heats up on the track is less than when the tires are filled with air. Serious auto-crossers really like it because unlike road racers they don't get to take a few warm-up laps to get their tires up to proper temp/pressure.

Local Costco does fill with nitrogen and then uses green-colored valve caps. Since they offer lifetime service and guaranty they may have decided that the extra cost is worth it because they know the average driver doesn't check tire pressure which leads to more "free" repairs or replacements.

[BdaGhisallo]

Telekom played around with nitrogen in their tires back in the late 90's. It undoubtedly gave them a performance advantage such that they won two Tours along with many stages and green jerseys.

[gasman]

I seem to remember Consumer Reports filled a bunch of tires with Nitrogen and plain 'ol air. The difference after about a year of sitting around-nothing. The pressure was the same in all the tires with only minimal leakage.
Your results may vary.

[r_mutt]

this has already been said in various ways above, but the reason motorsport use nitrogen in their tires is stability. the relative lack of moisture in nitrogen as compared to oxygen is noticeable. this moisture in "regular" air in the tire as it heats up during competition use starts to boil and raise the tire temperature at a much more pronounced rate than nitrogen. result? overheated tire, more wear, less grip, etc... also, since the nitrogen moisture content is consistant, tire techs can accurately predict how the tire is going to react to small increases/decreases in pressure.

as for bicycle use, i can't see how the tire would get used in a manner that would stress it in a way even remotely close to what car and motorcycle competition use see.

[PaulE]

I just checked and topped off the air in my 3 cars today for the first time in a long, long time - like 6 months. 2 cars just have plain air and the other one has Costco nitrogen. They all needed some air. Annecdotaly, the nitrogen usually seems to hold up a little better than plain air, but didn't this time.

For street/passenger car applications, if the nitrogen is free, as in Costco, it's fine. But I wouldn't pay extra for it, or make a trip back to Costco just to get my tires topped off with nitrogen instead of using regular air.

[Steve in SLO]

Nitrogen fill = ceramic bearings

[rustychisel]

pure piffle

[ejh]

not quite, nitrogen = scam




Nitrogen fill = ceramic bearings

[Ahneida Ride]

I filled my tires and tubes with Helium.

Now my bike weighs 2 pounds one ounce. ;)

[Tobias]

Playing Devil's advocate .... not all air is the same.

The main functional difference that can't be offset by more frequent filling is the issue of humidity or water. When very humid air is compressed it initially heats up due to heat of compression, but when it cools down to ambient temperature you could end up with water in the tire.

For a bike a little water is not an issue, but for a car tire it could lead to greater variations in pressure as tires heat up and cool down.

The easy solution to this problem is simply not to compress air directly into your tires. If you compress air into a tank at a much higher pressure first (say around 100 PSI) and let it cool off, then much of the water will settle and can be drained out of the tank. When the air is expanded to the lower 35 to 40 PSI of the car tires it shouldn't create much humidity problems. To go beyond that, a good air dryer can dry the air even more.

Personally, I'd never pay for nitrogen. If provided for free I'd take it, but doubt it makes much difference at all (other than water in racing or truck tires that can run very hot).

[Louis]

Only a matter of time 'til Rapha offers an air pump that provides just the optimal mix sure to improve your ride:

Nitrogen (N2) 780,840 ppmv (78.084%)
Oxygen (O2) 209,460 ppmv (20.946%)
Argon (Ar) 9,340 ppmv (0.9340%)
Carbon dioxide (CO2) 383 ppmv (0.0383%)
Neon (Ne) 18.18 ppmv (0.001818%)
Helium (He) 5.24 ppmv (0.000524%)
Methane (CH4) 1.745 ppmv (0.0001745%)
Krypton (Kr) 1.14 ppmv (0.000114%)
Hydrogen (H2) 0.55 ppmv (0.000055%)
Nitrous oxide (N2O) 0.3 ppmv (0.00003%)
Xenon (Xe) 0.09 ppmv (9x10−6%)
Ozone (O3) 0.0 to 0.07 ppmv (0% to 7x10−6%)
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) 0.02 ppmv (2x10−6%)
Iodine (I) 0.01 ppmv (1x10−6%)
Carbon monoxide (CO) 0.1 ppmv
Ammonia (NH3) trace
Water vapor (H2O) ~0.40% over full atmosphere

[Elefantino]

Only a matter of time 'til Rapha offers an air pump that provides just the optimal mix sure to improve your ride:

Nitrogen (N2) 780,840 ppmv (78.084%)
Oxygen (O2) 209,460 ppmv (20.946%)
Argon (Ar) 9,340 ppmv (0.9340%)
Carbon dioxide (CO2) 383 ppmv (0.0383%)
Neon (Ne) 18.18 ppmv (0.001818%)
Helium (He) 5.24 ppmv (0.000524%)
Methane (CH4) 1.745 ppmv (0.0001745%)
Krypton (Kr) 1.14 ppmv (0.000114%)
Hydrogen (H2) 0.55 ppmv (0.000055%)
Nitrous oxide (N2O) 0.3 ppmv (0.00003%)
Xenon (Xe) 0.09 ppmv (9x10−6%)
Ozone (O3) 0.0 to 0.07 ppmv (0% to 7x10−6%)
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) 0.02 ppmv (2x10−6%)
Iodine (I) 0.01 ppmv (1x10−6%)
Carbon monoxide (CO) 0.1 ppmv
Ammonia (NH3) trace
Water vapor (H2O) ~0.40% over full atmosphere
And it will cost $1,599.

[WadePatton]

get a flat...laugh it off, hard climb? push the go button. but seriuosly folks, Air being 78% nitrogen and the smaller balance gasses tend to bleed off then the final remaining elemental gasses in the tire would approach 100% nitrogen after repeated "top offs"

this is a latex benefit and also the result of my studies.

and i like helium, but you have to top it off every 20 minutes. (molecular joke) :banana:

[L84dinr]

Most dealerships are filling tires with nitrogen because... it is easy money. Actually a lot of new automobiles the past couple of years are/have been sold with tire pressure sensors. The tires will loose enough pressure during the night to cause the warning sensor to sound off in the morning. When nitrogen is used the tire pressure doesnt fluctuate like regular "air" and the warning sensors are quiet.

[Louis]

Most dealerships are filling tires with nitrogen because... it is easy money. Actually a lot of new automobiles the past couple of years are/have been sold with tire pressure sensors. The tires will loose enough pressure during the night to cause the warning sensor to sound off in the morning. When nitrogen is used the tire pressure doesnt fluctuate like regular "air" and the warning sensors are quiet.

I've driven cars overseas where I can assure you that they do not put nitrogen in the tires and it takes a very large number of overnights (and days) to loose enough to justify topping off. Either the sensors are set to +/- 0.0000001 psi from nominal or there's something wrong with that story.

[Tobias]

I've driven cars overseas where I can assure you that they do not put nitrogen in the tires and it takes a very large number of overnights (and days) to loose enough to justify topping off. Either the sensors are set to +/- 0.0000001 psi from nominal or there's something wrong with that story.
Pressure will vary with temperature alone more than that, right?