Dura 7800 vs 7900 vs SRAM Red

[mlindy]

I'm currently running Dura Ace 7800 on my HSG and considering upgrading to 7900. Is it worth it? Additionally, how's the SRAM Red group in comparison?

Thanks,

[dave thompson]

I can't speak directly to the comparo between the 7800 and 7900, however I did a 7800 to 6700 swap in July and so far have about 750 miles on the new group.

If the 7900 is better than the 6700, then it will be awfully good! I really like the 6700 and am very satisfied. I am not normally an early adopter but I thought the 6700 components may have something that would eminently suit me and I was right.

I did a 'rode' report regarding the 6700 stuff a couple of months ago here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=63990&highlight=rode

[Z3c]

IMHO, Shimano front shifting trumps Red by a long shot. I didn't adapt to the single shifter on Red; it required too much thinking whereas Shimano is pretty easy as you tap this lever or that lever. I often shifted the wrong way with Red; I may be a moron but I just couldn't get to the point of having the consistency I was used to with 7800 which is what I had at the time..

I certainly would recommend a real test ride on familiar terrain before leaping.

7900 front shifting is remarkable. The rest is mildly improved IMHO..

Scott

[oldguy00]

I've tried all three.
I currently have Red. Have used 7800 for years prior. Have tried 7900 briefly.

I didn't really like 7900 in that it felt less smooth than 7800, and the internals of the lever are more exposed. Also a lot of various complaints about the group on the internet.

The Red is light.....and thats about it. I don't like the shifting. It tuned up fine, but it is very plastic/clackity feeling IMHO. Also, I use a DA cassette and chain with it to smooth it out...

If you can deal with exposed cables, then 7800 is the best stuff going IMHO.
I think campy works great too, but their shifting is a bit more clunky feeling that shimano. But I'd take either over Red (and will probably be selling my Red group soon).

[cdimattio]

I have Red and Shimano 7900 on separate bikes. The 7900 group was a recent replacement for 7800.

7800 vs 7900: I do not understand the complaints with 7900. Front derailleur shifting is clearly improved over a high standard. Braking modulation and feel has been improved over what was arguably the best braking available. I believe rear shifting is comparable to 7800. The hidden shift cables give better appearance with some minor loss of feel and performance.

7900 vs Red: Red is improved by a Dura Ace Chain and Cassette. Front shifting is clearly inferior, and I switched out the front derailleur to 7900 with great success. Braking is also a notch below the Dura Ace standard. Red is lighter and I do admit to liking the lever and shifting a bit better than 7900 (with the aforementioned changes). No data to confirm, but I expect 7900 is likely a bit more robust and will have a longer life.

[Climb01742]

both 7900 and 6700 have_much_longer reach to hood "knob" than 7800/previous ultegra. which could require a change in your bar reach to compensate. just something to keep in mind. i, too, had a hard time when i tried red adjusting to double-tapping (which could just be years of shimano neuro-programming ;) .) but dang, sram hoods just rock. their comfort is still tempting.

[palincss]

I'm currently running Dura Ace 7800 on my HSG and considering upgrading to 7900. Is it worth it?

Thanks,

Why? Is the 7800 gear worn out? Is there some specific performance shortfall you are seeking to correct? If so, does the 7900 gear fix the deficiency? And if there is one and 7900 does correct it, how much is that correction worth to you, and how much would the change cost?

Or is this just a case of component-oriented bike lust?

[dogdriver]

Have both-- RED on a Vamoots, 7800 on an IF Crown Jewel.

The 7800 just works, all the time, perfectly. No need from what I've heard to go with 7900, unless you can't stand the extra cables sticking out. Parts replacement cost for 7900 scares me, also.

All above comments about RED apply. It works fine, I'll be replacing the BB with a CK when they release it, as the seals don't work and the BB makes noise, despite LBS and my attempts to quiet. I had a rear cassette explode, which SRAM warrantied, no question (good on them). The single lever takes some "touch" to get the right gear, especially down shifting, but can be gotten used to. Definitely not "automatic", a-la DA. I DO like the hand position/hood fell better than 7800 (probably the reason I keep it), but I have big hands...

My $.02, Chris

[Dave]

Nobody mentioned that 7900 shifters can only shift two cogs larger with one sweep of the brake lever (according to all reports I've read). The the 7800 could shift three. It's a bigger issue for compact crank users, where shifting 3 cogs larger after a shift to the big ring would be common.

What really rocks are the new Campy brake hoods. The new model can still shift 3-cogs larger with one sweep of the finger lever and up to 5 cogs smaller with one push of the thumb button. Maybe it's time to go over to the dark side.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm currently running Dura Ace 7800 on my HSG and considering upgrading to 7900. Is it worth it? Additionally, how's the SRAM Red group in comparison?

Thanks,

Lots of $ for 7900, less RH shifter function(fewer shifts to a lower gear possible), no compatibility to 7800 FD and brakes(minor). VERY expensive crank and big chainring($450 or so for the ring).

Hidden cables and tremendous FD action, probably the best there is due to a VERY stiff big ring.

I would stick to 7800.

As for RED, IMO(worked on many sram, shimano and Campagnolo bicycles).

Poor LH shifter action, noisy cogset(Powerdome) and questionable reliability with the Red chain. BB bearings dpn't last in the wet in spite of the ceramic hype(all ceramic is pretty much hype, I believe). Light and discounted deeply, all ya gotta do is go thru a team for a 'bro deal.

I would also ride a bicycle with 2009 Chorus/Record or SuperRecord. VERY comfy levers, most functional LH and RH levers of the lot in terms of number of gears that can be selected per 'sweep', and trimability(is that a word?) of the LH lever. Simplest and most reliable shifter innards by far. Chorus(and Athena for 2010) most bang for the buck. No need for the ceramic, ti, etc of SR/Record IMO.

[sc53]

I switched from 7800 to partial 7900 this summer (for no good reason except the new hoods feel much better to me and are more comfortable) and have the following observations:
If you switch, you have to switch the brakes, FD, and obviously shifters. You do NOT need to switch the RD, cassette or chain. I am still using the Stella Azzurra compact crank that I used with the 7800 and so far my front shifting is not as perfect as it was with 7800 and the same crank. I have had to take the bike back into the shop for FD tweaking several times, something I never had to do with 7800 FD setup. If the latest tweaking doesn't work, I may be selling the Stella Azzurra crank and replacing with the DA 7950 (ton$$$ of money so very unlikely) or Ultegra 6750 ($400 at LBS, much le$$ on internet but I'm not going to do that to my shop) plus new bottom bracket too because the new cranks have to use the Shimano outboard BB. The ramping on the chainrings is apparently different with 7900/6700 and it just may be that my Stella Azzurra chainrings can't hack the new FD. Just some food for thought.....

[Ti Designs]

Why? Is the 7800 gear worn out? Is there some specific performance shortfall you are seeking to correct? If so, does the 7900 gear fix the deficiency? And if there is one and 7900 does correct it, how much is that correction worth to you, and how much would the change cost?

Wow, this is almost exactly what I said to our Shimano rep when he saw my mostly Dura-Ace 9-speed bike. The components must have 100,000 miles on them, there's no silver finish left on anything, but it just keeps on working. I've tried 7800, 7900 and Di2, but I have yet to find an advantage. I didn't find 7-speed to be gear restricted, there are gears on my 9-speed cassette that I've only needed a few times. One more isn't going to help. I can shift on a standing climb or mid-sprint, so it's not like they offer anything in shifting performance. The 9-speed drivetrain lasts longer and costs less. The brakes have a more solid feel and better modulation (ever try 7800 brakes on a tandem?) and for all that's said about external bearings for the bottom bracket, I'm still not seeing the limitation on my Ultegra Octolink BB.

When are they going to come out with 7900 legs and lungs?

[EDS]

To me, ergonomics is the most important consideration in choosing betweeen Shimano, SRAM and Campy. They all shift well and will last a long time so it comes down to comfort and fit.

[jtferraro]

I had a rear cassette explode, which SRAM warrantied, no question (good on them).


Curious...Rival/Force OG-1070 cassette, Red 'Powerdome' OG-1090 cassette, or the new PG-1070 (which isn't missing the teeth)?

Thanks,

[sg8357]

[snip] I've tried 7800, 7900 and Di2, but I have yet to find an advantage. I didn't find 7-speed to be gear restricted, there are gears on my 9-speed cassette that I've only needed a few times. One more isn't going to help.[snip]
When are they going to come out with 7900 legs and lungs?


Ti you are, I mean this in the nicest possible way, a communist.
You will kill capitalism if you don't upgrade to the new shiny version
every year. People in China will have to go back to selling bad copies
of Soviet weapons to the North Koreans if you don't buy
D/A 7901 right now!!!! :)

Kidding aside, the compatibility stuff is very annoying, very computer
like. Maybe Shimano can bring back D/A 9 as a retro group to with
all those new fangled steel bikes.

Scott G.
Long Live Suntour.

[oldguy00]

My favorite bike ever was my Marinoni with DA 8 speed w/down tube shifters. Flawless! :)

[Jeff N.]

IMO, 7900 is hard to beat, but I'm awfully fond of Super Record-11 as well. Jeff N.

[dogdriver]

Curious...Rival/Force OG-1070 cassette, Red 'Powerdome' OG-1090 cassette, or the new PG-1070 (which isn't missing the teeth)?

Thanks,


1090 Powerdome. The red plate (which transfers torque from the teeth to the freehub) disconnected from the cassette body. I replaced it with a 1070 of traditional construction. At 190lbs, doubt I'll feel the weight difference, yuk yuk yuk.

[Pete Serotta]

I have had the opportunity to ride 7800 and 7900. Except for hidden cables on the 7900, I am not more in love with 7900 than 7800, although I like the looks of the 7900 better. You are right on about the ## of gears.

My Campy 11 speed is down in the basement and I am just waiting for my new MAVIC wheels to arrive to have it built up. (yeah i could use the existing wheels and might have to is the 2010 R-SYS do nor arrive soon. (yeah I know the rep they have :crap: )


Nobody mentioned that 7900 shifters can only shift two cogs larger with one sweep of the brake lever (according to all reports I've read). The the 7800 could shift three. It's a bigger issue for compact crank users, where shifting 3 cogs larger after a shift to the big ring would be common.

What really rocks are the new Campy brake hoods. The new model can still shift 3-cogs larger with one sweep of the finger lever and up to 5 cogs smaller with one push of the thumb button. Maybe it's time to go over to the dark side.

[oldpotatoe]

Curious...Rival/Force OG-1070 cassette, Red 'Powerdome' OG-1090 cassette, or the new PG-1070 (which isn't missing the teeth)?

Thanks,

PG-1070, the best of the lot. NOT OG-1090. Expensive, noisy.

[Dave]

My Campy 11 speed is down in the basement and I am just waiting for my new MAVIC wheels to arrive to have it built up. (yeah i could use the existing wheels and might have to is the 2010 R-SYS do nor arrive soon. (yeah I know the rep they have :crap: )

R-SYS? You fell for that? I just got a PM from someone who found that their R-SYS wheels don't work with the 11 speed cassette. Maybe a 1mm spacer will fix it.

[aosty]

I just rebuilt a bike with mostly Red.... with a 7800 crank.... good combo.

[Pete Serotta]

I have a very good friend who works for Mavic so I am going to give them a try. I will report on the experience when they finally arrive. They are said to be revised in 2010. I do not know a wheel that has received more comments (and many not positive.) We used them on Ride the Rockies demo rides last two years and they performed without a problem and also folks liked them.

If I had not seen them used the past two years and put them on for folks to demo then I would have passed. The K-SLs are my favorite wheel of this type. WIth that said, I most of the time use DT rims and DT 240 hubs with Campy 10 speed.



R-SYS? You fell for that? I just got a PM from someone who found that their R-SYS wheels don't work with the 11 speed cassette. Maybe a 1mm spacer will fix it.

[Chris]

I am going to give them a try. I will report on the experience when they finally arrive.

We should start collecting money for your recovery fund now, so we will be ahead of the curve when the need arises.

[JeffS]

I like the hood and lever shape of 6700 over 7800. Front shifting is improved as well.

sram hood shape is nice and rear shifting is great. I am not a fan of the front shifting though. After months of using it, moving to the big ring is still awkward for me.

After owning both, I ordered 6700 for my upcoming speedvagen. I can't justify the cost, both initial and consumable, of 7900. The only other group I would consider at this point is Di2.

I will not, however be rebuilding my sram bikes, primarily because they are either 1x10 or cross bikes that rarely change front rings, and will eventually go to 1x10 as well. Well, I won't change unless I have another derailleur incident. I had a rear derailleur self-destruct two laps into a muddy cross race.