Peaks?

[jeffg]

For those in the know, can you plan to have two major events on consecutive weekends? It seems this is a bad idea, but if you can recover after the first one and a peak can be held for about a week or so, it seems like it might work. In fact, it might be better than having two rides/races 3-4 weeks apart. Thoughts?

[dirtdigger88]

I would think if you timed your first peak correctly holding that level for a week wouldn't be a problem- I would think holding that level for a month would be harder and a month really isn't enough time to peak a second time- just my lack of knowledge speaking here-

Jason

[Too Tall]

Jeff, I'd call it a bit of a crapshoot without a good account of a successful previous peak period and what lead up to it. Tracking chronic stress and acute training load and taper period are all elements that in my mind need to be seen in past performance in order to fine tune and predict how long you can expect the peak performance to last.

[jeffg]

Jeff, I'd call it a bit of a crapshoot without a good account of a successful previous peak period and what lead up to it. Tracking chronic stress and acute training load and taper period are all elements that in my mind need to be seen in past performance in order to fine tune and predict how long you can expect the peak performance to last.

Good point, TT. I have generally had 6 weeks or so in between the two rides I do, if not more. This year a new locale, new job (sort of), new baby, etc. will make it a bit challenging. The two best rides I can do may be June 25 (in California) and July 3 (in the Dolomites). I think it might be risky, but my thought was that I would be more likely to hold a peak for a week than to build to another peak in four weeks.

Tracking acute stress? That will just depend on whether I am on the 9 AM to midnight work schedule and how the little ones are sleeping!

[Jack Brunk]

Jeff,

I train for basically two different seasons. My first one consist of five double centuries between now and May 14th with a couple of centuries thrown in. Then I will take some reduced mileage time between the middle of May through July. Then hit the DC route again in early September through the end of October that includes 4 doubles and the Furnace Creek 508. Peaking is very difficult to plan for due to the difficulty of each event. As you know, the more doubles you do the better your body is able to recover.

Jack

[Too Tall]

Jack, you stud you. I've was crew chief twice at 508. What's your totem? I'd DYING to race it solo.

[Jack Brunk]

Too Tall,

I'll pick it out when the sign ups open in March. You should come out this year and try it.


Jack

[Too Tall]

Hold on bob-a-looie. I thought Chris ate a bag of 'shrooms, went into seclusion and your Totem came to him in a vision??? You can pick? Hmmm.

Solo?

My gosh I'd love to dood...I'd love to....oh my gosh I'd love to. That race is one heck of a beautiful thing as are all the people involved.

Hey, wear a face mask as you enter Trona and for the next hr. Seriously.
The best trick I came up with for my rider was a polar fleece tube filled with ice to drape over his subclavian arteries.

[Jack Brunk]

Maybe he does pick em but I am going to lobby if a choice is available. Thanks for the other tip. as I am not sure if I will do it solo or be a part of a two man team.

Jack

[jeffg]

Jeff,

I train for basically two different seasons. My first one consist of five double centuries between now and May 14th with a couple of centuries thrown in. Then I will take some reduced mileage time between the middle of May through July. Then hit the DC route again in early September through the end of October that includes 4 doubles and the Furnace Creek 508. Peaking is very difficult to plan for due to the difficulty of each event. As you know, the more doubles you do the better your body is able to recover.

Jack

Awesome! Are you planning to ride either DMD this year? I will likely do one of them (either a slightly undertrained DMD or the Terrible Two right before my Dolomite ride).

The DMD is my favorite ride, but the chance to try the TT on the old 211 mile course is intriguing. I barely broke 13 hours on the current 200 mile course last year, so breaking that on the old course would be a stretch to say the least. But what's the point of having a goal if it's not ambitious (at least from a personal point of view ;) )

Hope to see you out there!

[Jack Brunk]

Jeff,

I won't be able to do either due to scheduling conflicts. Maybe next year. I hear the TT course is really tough!

Jack

[jeffg]

Jeff,

I won't be able to do either due to scheduling conflicts. Maybe next year. I hear the TT course is really tough!

Jack

TT is tough, though DMD is tougher in my opinion due to how early in the season it is and the extra 3-4,000 feet of climbing. On average, DMD takes about two hours longer than TT. In fact, my best TT time is 2:30 less than my best DMD! If you have a tough day, the time cut off on TT can be a factor, whereas DMD lets you suffer as long as needed. I would imagine the % of finishers on this year'd TT will be less due to the 45 minutes or so the extra 11 miles supposedly add.

Anywho, what are your key doubles this year? I also have done Central Coast, but other than that it's only TT/DMD. :banana:

[Jack Brunk]

Jeff,
Key doubles:

First half:

Mulholland double- 14,700 ft
Central coast- 13,500ft

Second half:

Knoxville- 13,000ft
Tour of twp forests-13,500
Furnace creek 508

Jack

[wanderingwheel]

TT is tough, though DMD is tougher in my opinion due to how early in the season it is and the extra 3-4,000 feet of climbing.

I disagree, but only slightly. TT and DMD are the two hardest doubles in California, but TT is much harder for me than DMD. TT is usually much hotter, and it's too flat. Those 50 flat miles right before lunch through the Alexander Valley (I think) do more damage to me than the rest of the course combined. I think my DMD time is at least equal to my TT time, if not better.

Sean

[jeffg]

I disagree, but only slightly. TT and DMD are the two hardest doubles in California, but TT is much harder for me than DMD. TT is usually much hotter, and it's too flat. Those 50 flat miles right before lunch through the Alexander Valley (I think) do more damage to me than the rest of the course combined. I think my DMD time is at least equal to my TT time, if not better.

Sean

Of course, this has been discussed before and it is really splitting hairs. At some level, it's just really hard. I also find the flat section between the descent of Oakville Grade and the beginning of Geysers on TT to be a downer. If I do ride this year, I need to think of a way to avoid last year's mistake of getting caught in between groups for a bit. I ended up riding with folks that I had dropped on Trinity since I wasn't going to outdo them by myself. On the other hand, flying on the flats is not my specialty and I am afraid I might blow if I rode with a faster pack. That section is really for rouleurs. On the other hand, riding up Skaggs in 120 degree heat like in 2003 is no picnic either!

DMD can either be frigid or even hot like last year. The real killer for me is that living in a cold weather climate it is very hard for me to get in adequate mileage for DMD, whereas TT almost two months later is better placed.

What I can say is that either of these rides is much more difficult than the Dolomite Marathon or most other gran fondos. Yes, the Giau is a beast at over 9% for 10+ km and the 14,500 feet of vertical are nothing to sneeze at, but it takes me less than half the time as DMD. I will reserve judgment on the Ventoux century until I ride it.

Finally, what's your DMD time? It sounds like you are flying! :banana:

Best,

Jeff

[jeffg]

Jeff,
Key doubles:

First half:

Mulholland double- 14,700 ft
Central coast- 13,500ft

Second half:

Knoxville- 13,000ft
Tour of twp forests-13,500
Furnace creek 508

Jack

Good luck!

[Jack Brunk]

Thanks and the same to you.

Jack

[wanderingwheel]

Finally, what's your DMD time? It sounds like you are flying!

My best Devil Mountain time is 15 hours, which is much better than my best Terrible Two time (pretty embarrasing). If I can stop bonking on Hamilton and learn how to pace myself better, I think there's room to take another hour or more off that without much extra work.

Getting back to the original thread, Devil Mountain is one week before my goal of the early season, Breathless Agony. One of my friends put the idea in my head that the course record on Breathless Agony is within reach, with a lot of extra training. The current record holder was a good friend of mine and the ride this year is being run as a memorial to him so it would mean a lot to me to challenge his record. With that in mind, I haven't yet decided whether or not to ride Devil Mountain, and how hard to ride it.

Sean

[jeffg]

My best Devil Mountain time is 15 hours, which is much better than my best Terrible Two time (pretty embarrasing). If I can stop bonking on Hamilton and learn how to pace myself better, I think there's room to take another hour or more off that without much extra work.

Getting back to the original thread, Devil Mountain is one week before my goal of the early season, Breathless Agony. One of my friends put the idea in my head that the course record on Breathless Agony is within reach, with a lot of extra training. The current record holder was a good friend of mine and the ride this year is being run as a memorial to him so it would mean a lot to me to challenge his record. With that in mind, I haven't yet decided whether or not to ride Devil Mountain, and how hard to ride it.

Sean

Hey, 15 is faster than me! My best DMD is 15:30, and my best TT is 12:59. Bonking on Hamilton is also my experience, I somehow recover for Sierra but that just kills me. I have never really had a bad section on TT -- I am just slow!

If Breathless agony is your goal I would not try for a PR on DMD. Good luck and maybe I'll see you on one of the DCs ...

[Climb01742]

hey jeff, didn't you used to be in new york? how'd you end up in germany?

[jeffg]

hey jeff, didn't you used to be in new york? how'd you end up in germany?

Climb:

Yes, I did used to be in NY. Same job, different country ...