Campy 11 speed differences- weight only?

[sgmidf]

I'm getting together an 11 speed drivetrain and was wondering about the diffs between Chorus/Record/SR. Is it only material and subsequesntly weight, or is there a functional diff? I've been picking up Record parts when I see them at a "good price" but I'm happy to use a chorus cassette.

[bkboom123]

from everything I have read in RBA and bicycling magazine, there is no difference performance wise between chorus, record, or SR. The only differences are the weight of the group as well as the weight of your pocket after buying a group.

I have never been on a campy group in my life, so this is not based off of any first hand experience, only what I have read....

hope that helps!

[RADaines]

I have Record 11 speed. I decided to go with Record over Chorus because of the upgrade of ceramic bearings. I don't regret the decision at all; I love the stuff. The bottom bracket is so smooth and easy!

Bob

[sgmidf]

The bearings is why I'm going Record over Chorus for the other parts. I'm just not sure that it makes a diff for the cassette.

[Dave]

If you want the very best CULT bearings, you have to go all the way to SR. Record has an upgraded ceramic hybrid bearing. Of course the bearings can also be bought as a separate item and installed if the original bearings wear out.

I chose Chorus cassettes with my otherwise Record group since the most-used cogs would be Ti and those last about half as long. I can get three Chorus cassettes for the prices of one SR cassette.

The much more expensive SR shifters just have cutouts in the brake lever and one internal part made of Ti to save 5-10 grams of weight.

[sgmidf]

It looked to me that the SR cranks had different technology (the bearings and BB) but that the other components were different mainly in the weight savings. I saw that the rear der has some difference (ceramic bearing vs bushing) also but it didn't seem like a big one.

[Pete Serotta]

For what ever reason the pro teams (vast majority) used Record not SR, if they were using CAMPY, in 09.

As to cassettes - go with the CHORUS and use the extra money toward wheels.... The SR is $$$$$$ in regard to cassette and will not last nearly as long. (The SR still uses some steel - first two or three (11,12,13) cogs are steel no matter what series you use.

[endosch2]

Is there anyone who can speak from experience on how long campy ti-steel cassettes last versus all steel ones? I am going to upgrade soon and I want to hear from someone who has some measurements from personal experience.

[Dave]

Is there anyone who can speak from experience on how long campy ti-steel cassettes last versus all steel ones? I am going to upgrade soon and I want to hear from someone who has some measurements from personal experience.

The life depends on which cogs are your most-used and how you mangage your chains. Roughly, a Ti cog will last half as long as steel.

When I had two bikes in service with the same drivetrains and ridden on the same routes, I wore out just the 19T cog on a steel cassette in about 6,000 miles, while my Record cassette had more severely worn 19 and 21T cogs in only 4,000 miles. I'm sure it would have taken at least 8,000 miles to get close to get that much wear on the steel cogs.

That leads me to chain management. It's often recommended to change a chain only when it has reached .5% elongation or 1/16 inch per foot as measured center to center on the pins with a precision scale (not a Park chain checker). A well maintained Campy 10 chain, like those I was using, showed a fraction of that amount of elongation even after 6,000 miles but the chain still wore out one of the steel cogs. When I put on a second new chain, the chain skipped on the worn 19T cog. To avoid that problem, I now use three chains in a rotation. Since elongation is not a reliable indicator of Campy chain wear, I use a measurement of roller displacement, similar to what Campy shows in their chain instructions. I measure between two adjacent rollers and rotate to a new chain when the roller spacing increases to about .220 inch. I do not throw the used chain away. I keep it and start a second rotation after the third chain is worn. With this type of chain manangement, you will never get chain skip and the cassette should work properly for the full life of all three chains. I trash a chain when the roller displacment increases to about .240 inch. That's still an arbitrary number, just like the .5% elongation value, but it should allow a lot of miles from each chain - probably far more than most people get.

[sgmidf]

For what ever reason the pro teams (vast majority) used Record not SR, if they were using CAMPY, in 09.

As to cassettes - go with the CHORUS and use the extra money toward wheels.... The SR is $$$$$$ in regard to cassette and will not last nearly as long. (The SR still uses some steel - first two or three (11,12,13) cogs are steel no matter what series you use.


That's my plan. By the way, can I use an 11 speed front der with a 10 speed drivetrain until I swap everything around?

[rePhil]

Dave, what chain / connector are you using on 11?


Snipped.

I now use three chains in a rotation. .

[Dave]

I've personally used the KMC missing link, but it must be the special model made for the Campy 5.9mm chain, not one made for a KMC chain. I've also used the Wipperman connex, but the only one that fits is the no-longer-made 10S1 model.

A SRAM 10 powerloc has been reported to work since it's about the same inner width as a Campy 5.9mm chain.

If KMC ever gets their 11 speed chain and link on the market, I'll try it, or at least the link.

I'm not going to pay $20 for a Forster 11 speed superlink. The 5.9mm model 4 superlink clicked every time it went over the cogs, when I tried it.

[Pete Serotta]

That's my plan. By the way, can I use an 11 speed front der with a 10 speed drivetrain until I swap everything around?


I have used an 11, it does take a different lock ring than a 12. (at least mine did)

[oldpotatoe]

For what ever reason the pro teams (vast majority) used Record not SR, if they were using CAMPY, in 09.

As to cassettes - go with the CHORUS and use the extra money toward wheels.... The SR is $$$$$$ in regard to cassette and will not last nearly as long. (The SR still uses some steel - first two or three (11,12,13) cogs are steel no matter what series you use.

Guy at Campagnolo, NA said the biggest motivation behind Record was for sponsorship. That big boy pros don't really need titanium bits or Cult ceramic.

Plus most cogsets were Chorus, better durability, all steel.

[oldpotatoe]

That's my plan. By the way, can I use an 11 speed front der with a 10 speed drivetrain until I swap everything around?

Yes as long as the LH Ergo lever is anything but 2007/8 Centaur, Veloce, Mirage or Xenon(QS stuff, xenon based).

[oldpotatoe]

I've personally used the KMC missing link, but it must be the special model made for the Campy 5.9mm chain, not one made for a KMC chain. I've also used the Wipperman connex, but the only one that fits is the no-longer-made 10S1 model.

A SRAM 10 powerloc has been reported to work since it's about the same inner width as a Campy 5.9mm chain.

If KMC ever gets their 11 speed chain and link on the market, I'll try it, or at least the link.

I'm not going to pay $20 for a Forster 11 speed superlink. The 5.9mm model 4 superlink clicked every time it went over the cogs, when I tried it.

Current Wipperman 10s link works with all 10s chains(all are 5.9mm) and also Campagnolo 11s chains..from actual experience.

[Dave]

Current Wipperman 10s link works with all 10s chains(all are 5.9mm) and also Campagnolo 11s chains..from actual experience.

It may "work" but the fit will not be proper. To fit properly, the link should have about the same side clearance as the other links in a chain. That is normally .004-.008 inch or .1-.2mm. Although all 10 speed chains have about the same 5.9mm outside width, they are not the same width where it counts - across the inner plates.

There are two groups of inner plate widths. The wide group includes Wipperman, Shimano and KMC. The narrow group includes Campy and SRAM. If a link made to fit on one of the wider chains is used on a chain from the narrow group, the fit will be sloppy, by at least .1mm. Try the opposite and you may have no side clearance at all. The result can pop the head off a pin on the master link. It's not a good idea to use a SRAM 10 powerloc on any of the chains in the wide group.

The new 11 speed chain is about .1mm thinner than even the thinnest 10 speed chain, so a master link that fits the narrow 10 speed chains will have about .1mm of excess clearance and the wider links, like a Wipperman or KMC will have twice the normal amount of side clearance.

[vjp]

Dave,

I think that you know more about Campagnolo technical details and minutiae than anyone else. You should start a web page or blog with all your knowledge and hot rodding tips, it would be a great resource.

vjp

[Pete Serotta]

WE love him teaching us and helping out here!!


Dave,

I think that you know more about Campagnolo technical details and minutiae than anyone else. You should start a web page or blog with all your knowledge and hot rodding tips, it would be a great resource.

vjp

[oldpotatoe]

It may "work" but the fit will not be proper. To fit properly, the link should have about the same side clearance as the other links in a chain. That is normally .004-.008 inch or .1-.2mm. Although all 10 speed chains have about the same 5.9mm outside width, they are not the same width where it counts - across the inner plates.

There are two groups of inner plate widths. The wide group includes Wipperman, Shimano and KMC. The narrow group includes Campy and SRAM. If a link made to fit on one of the wider chains is used on a chain from the narrow group, the fit will be sloppy, by at least .1mm. Try the opposite and you may have no side clearance at all. The result can pop the head off a pin on the master link. It's not a good idea to use a SRAM 10 powerloc on any of the chains in the wide group.

The new 11 speed chain is about .1mm thinner than even the thinnest 10 speed chain, so a master link that fits the narrow 10 speed chains will have about .1mm of excess clearance and the wider links, like a Wipperman or KMC will have twice the normal amount of side clearance.

Well, I have sold about 250 Wipperman links for 10s chains over the last 3-4 years, mostly Campagnolochains, and I have not had any complaints or problems, including on my own bicycle..Also for shimano and sram 10s chains.

When 11s was new and there weren't any 11s pins I used a WIPPERMAN link on a 11s chain after the guy building it gooned up the pin. Worked fine(including racing) for 2800 miles he used the chain, then he changed the chain.

Now that 11s pins are available, what I stock and use for 11s chains. KMC is shortly going to intro a 11s chain and link, BTW.

http://www.bike-eu.com/products/3443/kmc-11-speed-chain.html