Campy: Record vs Chorus?

[BdaGhisallo]

I am considering getting campy components to replace my dura ace - after 18 months of pretending I find the DA10 hoods comfortable I can no longer lie to myself!! It's rather frustrating as I like all the other aspects of the DA. The crank setup is great and the shifting is lovely! I may try to pad up the sti levers to improve the comfort. But I digress...

My question is about the difference in the performance of chorus in comparison to record. Would I give up much by going with a mostly chorus drivetrain, but with record ultra ergo levers? The chorus is a good bit cheaper than record and I don't fancy the look of all that carbon on the record derrailleurs. Me thinks they took the carbon fetish a bit far on those. How are the chorus cassettes compared to record. I know that ultegra cogs are a good bit nosier and 'tinnier' than DA cogs and wonder if the same is true with campy.

Thanks for the feedback.

[dirtdigger88]

you will loose nothing with Chorus-

now to my question- you said "pad up" your DA levers- do you find them too hard? I ask because Camy hoods are harder- I dont think anyone would argue that (what am I saying- of course someone will) What DA hoods are you using- I ask not to try to change your mind- I just wonder?

Jason

[BdaGhisallo]

I am using the 10sp da sti levers. I don't think they are too hard but I find there's too much of a dip in them where you rest your hands. Campy look like there is a smoother and flatter transition from the bar to the hood. Am I explaining it correctly?

In all likelihood I'll stick with the da. I have so much invested in da gear and wheels that it might cost me a small fortune to swap. It's a slow day so I feel like exploring my neurosis!!

I was looking on velonews and in their coverage of last year's milan show they had a shot of Iban Mayo's sti and he had the little dip padded up with some cut up tire tread. I am going to try that myself.

[CNote]

I wouldn't even bother with the Record shifters. The only difference between the Record and Chorus shifters is that they glue a little patch of carbon fiber to the shift lever and the indexing gear inside is coated with some kind of "anti-friction" something or other, or so I've been told by the head Campy tech at QBP.

[cinelli]

If you look at the Chorus line, it is normally last year's Record line. Any updates are made to the Record. No performance difference....only snob appeal.....I ride Record on all my bikes. :)

[Bill Bove]

Go chorus all the way, put the saved money into the wheels. NEVER use Record cassettes! There is no need for the extra cost. The last three cogs are ti, thats the only difference, not IMO worth the extra cost. I have Record on two bikes and a mix of Record, Chorus and Centaur on a third. the question will soon be asked "Chorus or Centaur?". Centaur works great, looks great, especially if you're not a big fan of carbon for carbons sake. As my cogs are wearing out I'm replacing them with Centaur cassettes. Chains and cassettes wear out to fast to spend that much on them without getting a significant improvement in performance.

[Sandy]

Perhaps someone like Smiley could offer some suggestions as to how to make your hands more comfortable. Perhaps it is the position of the levers on the bar, or the position of rotation of the bar itself. Could a different bar make any difference? How about your position on the bike and the weight that you have on the bar itself? Could a qualified fitter help you by looking at all of the above at once, in your riding position?

I really am qualified here, but from my personal experience, I have found the choice of handlebar to be critical, plus the degree of rotation of the bar. Weight on the handlebar per your position is also meaningful.

Shimano STi STill Serotta Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

Bda- check out the DA levers on the bikes on Serotta site- look how they have them set up- you want to minimize the dip? Move the levers up high and rotate the bars-

Just trying to save you some cash

Jason

[Jeff N.]

Sorry for being a vulture, but let me know if/when you plan on unloading your DA-10 stuff. I LOVE the hoods! Jeff N.

[Big Dan]

I agree with the fact that handlebar and lever position make a difference in regards to comfort with Shimano levers...........what handlebar are you using?

[BdaGhisallo]

I have thought about the handlebar shape and I am thinking of trying the easton ec90 equipe pro. I hear that has a nice round transition to the hoods. I currently have a newton shallow round drop on there and I think the bend is not so round but more of a straight transition to the curve of the drop.

Thanks a ton for all your input.

[djg]

and it's very clear that some of the graphics are different. The record bits all say "record" on them. Other than that ...

[RichMc]

Next bike I build up will use mostly Chorus, esp. cassette, rear derailleur, crankset, bottom bracket & front derailleur. Will most likely use the Record levers & brakes (maybe Chorus brakes) though. Not that much price difference in the shifters. Anyway all of the new Chorus looks like the Record stuff I bought last year.

[Marco]

but who can tell us about the 2004 or 2005 Centeur? Is Chorus really an improvement beyond the use of CF or are there mechanical differences?

Flydhest- you just built up with Centeur, no? And you are no less capable of hanging with the lunchtime racerboys doing laps. Any thoughts?

[chrisroph]

Record and chorus shifters have a ball bearing pivot. Centaur use a bushing. I feel the R/C levers shift better. The R/C cranks/bb's have a lower Q, are lighter, and are finished better. The centaur drlrs are excellent and the centaur short reach rear drlr will easily shift a 29. I use chorus shifters and centaur rear drlrs on my cross bike and winter fendered heavy eddy bike and they shift great. I also have a full record bike and a couple full chorus bikes. Functionally, they are identical.

[csb]

different bars may yield a flatter, more horizontal
contact area for your hands.
i desired a more campylike hood area from my da9spd +
deda 215 bars.
suggestion: take off your handlebar tape, get your allen
key for the hoods and move the levers around, keeping
in mind you WILL be adding pcs/strips of handle bar tape
to the sunken area you find so bothersome. you add them
by rolling back the rubber hood material as you would to
retape your bars, just roll a tad further this time. layer
on a couple of strips_ strata _ like a mini-dagwood sandwich.

also, do a search on this site, a forum member loaded some
photos of this common build up method.

realize that the 10 spd da levers are different than all others,
they were not designed for that flat interface, they are intended
to be vertical hornlike appendages.

[Dekonick]

Far from an expert but I have a record/chorus 9 mix on one bike. Rides just fine. I have record 10 brifters on another with chorus cranks, BB and centaur rear der. (I dont like the carbon on the record and centaur rear der.)

All shift great.

Anyone know if there is any difference at all other than cosmetic between centaur rear der. and the 2003 record stuff?

I read somewhere that the campy line is essentially hand me down... ie - record is this year, chorus is last year's record and centaur is record from 2 years prior.

[BdaGhisallo]

Guys,

Many thanks for all the advice. I have experimented with bar tilt and lever position a little and things are better. It's amazing how much difference moving things a fraction of a half of a smidgen can make to the bike!!

Again thanks very much. I don't think my dura ace sti levers are I are going to divorce after all.

[Dave]

Their is virtually no functional difference between record and chorus, just weight. I got the new Ultra shifters last year and I'm not convinced they are any better. Chorus is NOT last year's Record (or any previous year) in it's entirety. The Chorus RD has the carbon body for instance, but not the Ti fasteners. There are no Ti fasteners on Chorus level parts.

As for the Centaur group, only the BB was improved for 2005. It still uses the 111mm spindle, so it's not interchangeable with record or chorus. Campy doesn't list the Q, to my knowledge, but I've never seen a double crank that wasn't in the 145-150mm range and so it should make no difference. I still say that folks whining about Q should try some cleat shims. They can make a world of difference.

As for the question of Centaur's RD similarity to current Record or chorus, there is very little, if any functional difference. Check out the spare parts PDF. http://www.campagnolo.com/techinfo.php?did=c

As for the centaur shortcage RD being able to shift a 29T, sure it can, just like record or chorus, but the short cage only has a 27T capacity, so it's not appropriate for a 13-29 unless you limit the chainring difference to11T, or you're willing to let the chain hang slack in the little ring and smallest several cogs. A medium cage is the proper RD for a 13-29 doubl crank setup and most triples, except those using a 13-29, where a long cage is needed.

[vaxn8r]

Put me on the list of interested if you sell your DA 10 stuff.

As for the question. I don't see how one could possibly tell the difference between Record or Chorus without looking at the decals. It really makes Record superfluous because Chorus is Record, only last year. If I were going to make the plunge for Campy (it'd be a tough one anway right now because of the dollar value compared with the Euro) there is NO WAY I'd pay another $400 for a set of decals. But that's just me. I know how some think, well, I just dropped $8 grand on my bike so what-the-hello?

Though to be sure, Record might go good with $500 custom shoes and $200 helmets though ;) ;)

Sorry for that last one, I was on a roll...er rant...

[flydhest]

but who can tell us about the 2004 or 2005 Centeur? Is Chorus really an improvement beyond the use of CF or are there mechanical differences?

Flydhest- you just built up with Centeur, no? And you are no less capable of hanging with the lunchtime racerboys doing laps. Any thoughts?

you betcha. Just did about 30 reasonable miles on it today, including some steep-ish climbing and thus shifting under strain. Centaur freakin' kicks booty. I don't know about longevity yet. The shifters feel just like my Chorus shifters, which were just like my Record shifters that I broke except the Record ones were CF. I like the metal better anyway. The Centaur has the Veloce BB, which is a longer spindle than the Record/Chorus (which are identical save for the cf shell). This may be the only problem, as I assume (but am not certain) that it translates into more of a q-factor, if'n you care.

If you like Campy shifting--that is to say, chunk-in gear, chunk-in gear--as opposed to that Shimano stuff--oooh, buttery smooth, but did I just shift or not??? then you'll love Centaur. I'm all over it like stink on poop. Plus, the cassette is all individual cogs meaning you can mix and match. BigMac had posted a while back how to get at 12-29. I might do that at some point.

[chrisroph]

Last year, I bought a centaur 12-23 block for racing. It was not available in chorus or record. The block works superbly on the 303's.

[Marco]

"You Betcha"
Fly: you been listening too much to either Garrison Keiler or our man TooTall. Which is it?

[flydhest]

Marco,

Here in DW (District of Woebegone) all the wheels are true, the bikes are lightweight, and all the cyclists are off the front.

[Sandy]

Sadly, not all.

Sad Sandy