Italian Steel?

[TC Johnson]

Greetings!

I am ready to start the search for another frame to build, and would like to find a hidden gem among the Italian builders. Since Pegoretti is far beyond my "fun budget," I am hoping for some suggestions from this group on a name or two to look for on eBay or Craigslist. I scour for the obvious Colnago and De Rosa, but there seem to be a few builders over there who don't get the recognition they deserve. Steel is my first choice, but a good alu frame would be an option.

Who do you admire for their performance as well as their craftsmanship?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

TC

PS: Since a few of you out there have extensive collections of spare frames, any size around 54 and 56 would be worth a chat.

[veggieburger]

I have always liked Mottas, although I've never ridden one. The bowed rear stays are really sharp!

[TMB]

Zullo.


http://www.zullo-bike.com/products/tour91.html

All you need to know.

[spacemen3]

Mino Denti, F.Moser, and Casati make beautiful stuff, too. :)

[veggieburger]

Perhaps a better question to ask - can anyone name an old school Italian manufacturer that used Columbus/Oria/Tange tubing and wasn't any good? I think most of those companies are pretty reputable...

[c-record]

The Mondonico stuff done under the Torelli label in the US?

[TC Johnson]

Some great names are coming out. Are there particular reasons you are recommending these builders? Like Zullo, is there something he does no one else does?

TC

[cmg]

look for a Fondriest X-status built out of Deda 16.5 (optimal) but not a 49-50 that's what i'm looking for. the late nineties had a variety of paint after 2001 it went to an all rubberised black with white lettering, not as pretty. this one was too large.

[Jeff N.]

Mondonico. Carrera. Gios. Tommasini. Lamborghini...no, wait.... :rolleyes:

[majorpat]

Viner is an Italian built frame that I have had success with and not very expensive to boot. GVH has a couple different models. I have the lugged Dedacciai COM 12.5 steel.

[fourflys]

check here:
http://www.velocult.com/index.php/store/

[veggieburger]

I would say that pretty much any Italian builder will make a quality steel bike with a good ride. Provided the tubeset is decent, you won't be disappointed.
You might want to consider things like paint quality (I have heard some Cinelli's flake quite easily) and decal work (old Pinarellos are decalled over top of the clearcoat).

[TC Johnson]

Thanks for the replies and the PMs.

Most of my knowldege is tied to the vintage Columbus tubesets (SL, SLX, etc.), but how about the other steel sources? Dedacaiai (sp) has been used on some of the more contemporary steel bikes I have read about, like the Scapins and others. Are there some tubesets that should be avoided? I am 5'10" and 165#, so not super big or super light.

TC

[tv_vt]

This thread has some Italian beauties!
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=60135

[joelh]

Viner is an Italian built frame that I have had success with and not very expensive to boot. GVH has a couple different models. I have the lugged Dedacciai COM 12.5 steel.

My first real road bike was a Viner tretubi that I built up in 1981. I wish I still had that frame. I remember it being pretty sweet.

[jtferraro]

Zullo.


http://www.zullo-bike.com/products/tour91.html

All you need to know.

I like this one:
http://www.zullo-bike.com/images/postcard_jpg10x15/inqubo_caffe10x15.jpg

[dancinkozmo]

if cost is a real limiter:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINER-STEEL-FRAMESET-COLUMBUS-TUBING-56-CM-NEW_W0QQitemZ390100854416QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_B ikes?hash=item5ad3d2a690

guerciotti and ciocc are two names that i dont think have been mentioned yet ....

[mack]

Well I'm going to throw in and make my pitch for the Fondriest frames, the somewhat rare, and most under-rated performing steel and aluminum/carbon frames out there........I'm fortunate to have two of these frames and although my x-status has the aforementioned non-descript black rubber-like paint job this frame/bike rocks! The dedacciai optimal 18 mcdv steel tubeset and carbon stays weighs 3.3# (54cm) and it's wonderfully compliant, yet 'go forward-responsive/stiff' like very few frames I've owned. The aluminum carb level plus U107, amazingly rides similar with slightly more road feel or vibe.....looks way cooler with much more character and is a lighter package yet.
One guy said it well after picking up a fondriest...."on my first ride I smiled ear to ear the entire ride, feeling just like a kid who stole all the candy from the candy store and got away totally clean!"

No doubt these frames are not classic looking steel frames, nor do they preform that way. I picked up these frames second hand and they are certainly out of current production, but I think they may be worth a look, especially if you you're looking for something different and you desire a contemporary, very good, performing frameset.
I should add that I tore down my custom steel, true temper S3 tubing frameset/bike to build/try the x-status........and that was three years ago and the poor custom is still hanging on the hook.

Great luck with your search.....enjoy the process!
-mike

[thwart]

I'd agree---Fondriest frames are way underrated, whether in steel or aluminum.

[Elefantino]

DeBernardi.

Italian.

Steel.

Perfection.

Ask anyone who's ridden one.

[Tommasini53]

i had a tig-welded Tommasini that was a work of art. the 1980's and 1990's lugged frames were also very nice. keep scouring ebay. they pop up on occasion. good luck.

[dd74]

DeBernardi and Grandis, Della Santa, Bilatto.

The first three I've lusted over for years. I have a Bilatto, and I must say, it's every bit as good as my Colnago; at times better.

[Peter P.]

Torelli.com (http://www.torelli.com/frames/torelli/steel/corsa-strada.html)

Another vote for Torelli/Mondonico. He's been around for years and has a good reputation. Is it still "Chairman Dave"? Prices are silly reasonable.

For pure style and name dropping, DeRosa Primato.

[TC Johnson]

I have wondered where Sr. Pegoretti established his skills before going on his own. What frames out there perhaps have his DNA without bearing his name? (Sorta like Piero Ferrari)

This thread is fun, and will be adding to my running list of builders to watch the 'bay and CL for.

TC

[dd74]

I have wondered where Sr. Pegoretti established his skills before going on his own. What frames out there perhaps have his DNA without bearing his name? (Sorta like Piero Ferrari)

This thread is fun, and will be adding to my running list of builders to watch the 'bay and CL for.

TC
Don't forget Classical Rendezvous. Those guys know their classic Italian frames pretty well.

[RonW87]

I have a Colnago (one steel, one carbon), Gios, Rossin, Merckx, Heron, Bianchi, Trek, De Rosa and Tommasini.

It's hard not to reach for the Tommasini every ride.

Ron

[daker13]

I have a Giordana set up as my fixed gear around the town bike and it's a really nice riding bike. From what I understand any one of a number of Italian framebuilders might have built frames for a given brand, so it's worth it to pay attention to the details.

[cadence90]

I have wondered where Sr. Pegoretti established his skills before going on his own.Luigino Milani, Verona, from 1975 to 1990, when Cicli Milani closed due to Mr. Milani's death.

What frames out there perhaps have his DNA without bearing his name?
Quite a few.

Beautiful 28.6 Pegoretti film trailer (http://camillacandidadonzella.blogspot.com/2009/08/286.html)
.
.

[sand fungus]

Basso is another one to throw out there. My first bike was a Basso with Columbus SLX tubing, it was a beautiful ride, unfortunately it was a little too small.

[r_mutt]

DeBernardi and Grandis, Della Santa, Bilatto.

The first three I've lusted over for years. I have a Bilatto, and I must say, it's every bit as good as my Colnago; at times better.


roland della santa is here in the usa- phoenix i believe. gorgeous frames. won best in show, NAHBS 2009.

[TMB]

roland della santa is here in the usa- phoenix i believe. gorgeous frames. won best in show, NAHBS 2009.


Reno.

[TMB]

I have wondered where Sr. Pegoretti established his skills before going on his own. What frames out there perhaps have his DNA without bearing his name? (Sorta like Piero Ferrari)



TC

You asked .........

[11134]

How bout a relatively unknown company: Somec/
Gorgeous bikes though.

http://www.somec.com/?lan=en
WjV

[r_mutt]

yes, reno! thanks tmb. i knew it was in the sw.


gios torino, a classic italian marque.

[c-record]

Torelli.com (http://www.torelli.com/frames/torelli/steel/corsa-strada.html)

Another vote for Torelli/Mondonico. He's been around for years and has a good reputation. Is it still "Chairman Dave"? Prices are silly reasonable.

For pure style and name dropping, DeRosa Primato.


No more Chairman Bill. He and his wife now live in the South and distribute books I think. He still consults for Torelli which is owned by a young guy who seems really sharp and aggressive. They now have carbon but certainly still know steel. :)

[cadence90]

In addition to all those already mentioned, I would add Scapin, Bottechia, Carrera, Olmo, and Bianchi and Pinarello of course. An old Pina Montello SLX is a very nice frame, if you can find one.

[sg8357]

Wow, 3 pages and no California Masi or Confente fans.

I vote for Umberto Dei, coolest Italian bike ever, you just need to learn
how to shift a Cambio Corsa. 1950s Bianchi, Model B Cinellis are good too.

[BigDaddySmooth]

No mention of Ugo? I long for a De Rosa Neo Pro...in white. Schweet!

[dannyg1]

Some more:

Grandis, Coppi, Paletti, Chesini, Faggin, Bianchi, Concorde.

[veggieburger]

You'll need to be very confident in your manhood to ride a Faggin. :butt:

Concorde - they're Dutch, no? If you're going down that road, consider an old steel Batavus. They are beautifully made, especially where the rear seat stays meet the top tube. There's also a good number of Japanese steel frames, although the ones from the smaller builders still fetch a pretty penny.

[snah]

I've had a Tommaso and an Atala, both were great Italian bikes. Haven't heard much mention of Merckx, although not Italian. I've got a Merckx alu, rigged as anything I've ever ridden, but an excellent handling bike.

[TMB]

You'll need to be very confident in your manhood to ride a Faggin. :butt:

Concorde - they're Dutch, no? If you're going down that road, consider an old steel Batavus. They are beautifully made, especially where the rear seat stays meet the top tube. There's also a good number of Japanese steel frames, although the ones from the smaller builders still fetch a pretty penny.


Concorde is a dutch company.

The frames were made for them.

The top level frames - the team ones were mostly made by Ciocc.

[TC Johnson]

I left out Merckx because they are Belgian made, plus I have one already. Tennesee ti to Eddy geo, but a Merckx nevertheless. De Rosa is always an option, and I have heard many positive reports on ride quality.

This thread is for the hidden gems or re-badged masterpieces that go unrecognized. I am amazed at some of the prices the Asian market is willing to pay for Colnago and others. A bargain with a story is the best option.

How about Italian masters who relocated to the US?

Also, any more Dario re-badges out there?

TC

[Mr Mack]

I saw this frame in Vecchio's Bicicleteria in Boulder, CO last summer and the price was very reasonable for a collectible frame. It was Italian built in the early 70's --being from Italy rather than Carlsbad may explain the low price.
It would be a fun project to build up with Nuevo Record.

[bheight1]

I am new to posting and will post to "who you are" shortly. I'll preface I own '93 Serotta steel--all the classic ITA steel frames seem to be covered, although you mention ALU as a potential buy in your original post--I'll sufface not for me, ALAN would be a suggestion. Strong pedigree--ridden to numerous stage and classic victories, most notably many, many Cyclocross WC, collaboration with Guerciotti, ridden by one of my favs, G. Bugno as a re-badged Bianchi.

Bill

[Mutt]

I haven't seen their website updated in about a year, but I've put a lot of km on a Cramerotti Gardena (Columbus Foco and a scary-light carbon fork) and I believe their Vigore is the hottest track axe out there.

www.cramerotti.com

Mike in Asheville

[jtferraro]

Sanpa Bikes (managed by Dario's brother, Gianni):
http://www.sanpatrignano.org/?q=en/node/5999

Link to Velonews article about this facility:
http://www.velonews.com/photo/94045

Interesting story and appears to be a quality product!

[jemoryl]

See if you can dig up a Basso Viper - I bought a lovely one NOS (built circa 2000) from someone in the UK for a very good price. They are still being made, but apparently no US distributor.