Weight Loss

[mad_mark]

So I'm 195lbs according to the scales. At 6'2 1/2" that's "normal" but it's not for me. Short of sewing my mouth shut, does anyone have good suggestions for about 20lbs of weight loss?

I'm riding about 250-300m a week, watching what I eat, cut out desserts and soda completely. I'm going to pick up a Pilates class to help my core strength (I'm 37 and can feel the difference to when I was 20) but any other advice?

Mark.

[dirtdigger88]

dude 6' 2" and 175 thats skinny- why would you want to be that light?

jason

[mad_mark]

dude 6' 2" and 175 thats skinny- why would you want to be that light?

jason

I was 155lbs in my early 20's...

I figure it'll help me get up climbs faster.

Mark.

[Climb01742]

it's really hard to exercise your way to weight loss. the key part, and the hardest, is working on the consumption part of the equation. do you watch both what you eat and how much you eat? i personally find portion control to be very hard. i eat very little bad stuff (dessert being my real weakness) but i have a hard time controlling the amount of healthy stuff. i love rice, chicken, sushi, other fish...its healthy but my portion control sucks. i have no diet to suggest, but i would suggest looking at both what you eat and how much. good luck. saying "no" to food is damn hard. :crap:

[Kevan]

250-300 miles a week, and still with a weight problem???? Hell, change your diet to fruit and cottage cheese for a month and you'll be hiding behind toothpicks by April. :D

[flydhest]

Here's my take. Close monitoring of your caloric intake, as good an estimate of your caloric expenditure, and try for a deficit of only 500 calories a day from your steady state. It has been my experience (and therefore, likely only valid to me, but it's free advice) that trying to be extreme causes my body to change the way it deals with caloric intake and output. Starve myself or ramp up training without an associated increase in food and my body becomes more . . . efficient, shall we say. If you can do 500 a day, that's like a pound of fat (3500 cal) a week--all else equal.

I have found that I need to eat more often to keep myself honest. If I get hungry, then I eat too much. I try to eat five times a day. sidebar: We've had one breakfast, yes. But what about Second Breakfast? Elevensies, luncheon, afternoon tea, dinner, supper.

When I raced hmmm, back in my mid-20s (ack) I got as low as 168. That was too little, but 170-175 is optimal racing weight for me I think. I'm 6'2". Two years ago, I went from 225 to 190 in half a year. I let things slip, and I'm back up to 205 right now, but heading south.

Smiley called me the Michelin Man once. Of course, then I dropped him :banana:

[pale scotsman]

Mad man, taking off 20 lbs at that height and weight with the mileage you are doing may prove counter productive. You may climb better but I'd venture to say you are going to lose power.

I'm the same height and 205. Two years ago I dropped 15lbs through diet, training, and laying off the heavy free weights. My power, recovery, and rides suffered. After all that hard work I went back to my normal weight over a few months. I know I'll never climb like my 155 lb riding buddies, but I can hold my own everywhere else.

Oh and Jason, try 6'2" and 145lbs. Now that's skinny! That's what I weighed when I graduated high school. Some of my friends had Ian-Aide instead of Live-aide to try to get me some food to fatten me up.

[flydhest]

Ian,

Yep, I was 150 when i graduated high school. By the time I was running my fastest in college, though, I was 170-175. The football players were always surpised to see a skinny track guy who could squat enough to make the bars flex. heh, heh.

[pjm]

I'm 6'2'' and I got down to 183# once, and people were asking me if I was OK.
I have a real hard time getting below 195, too. I can ride 150 miles a week and not lose an pound!

[dirtdigger88]

I was 155lbs in my early 20's...

I figure it'll help me get up climbs faster.

Mark.

Yeah but we get older- I was 165 lbs when I graduated high school- if I tried to get that low I would look like I have an eating disorder- I am much stronger at 190- 195, weight loss isn't the only way to climb faster- maximize your power to weight ratio and climb like a mad man at 190-

jason

[Skrawny]

Granted that everyone carries the weight differently (and nobody likes to carry too much up long hills); nevertheless, your BMI calculates to 24.4kg/m2. For your age, "ideal" BMI is 19-25 kg/m2, which calculates to 152-200lbs. You are at the upper end of "ideal"

That being said, however, I can understand your desire to drop some weight. We all would like to look as toned and fit as possible.

Exercise is a key to weight loss, but it causes hunger and carbo craving. I agree with Climb, the key is PORTION CONTROL.

At the risk of getting flamed I will say: do not even think about fad diets! The Atkins diet, cabbage diet, purple food diet, whatever... The only diet which has been proven in clinical studies to -and this is the important part- keep weight off for more than 6 months is the Slimfast Diet. The basic tenent of the Slimfast Diet is PORTION CONTROL. Much of the way that other fad diets work is by making the rules so darned difficult to follow that you cannot eat more than 1,000 -1,500 cal/day and hence have portion control. Do not think of a "diet" if you want to keep weight of, think of switching to a "healthier lifestyle" for good.

It is true that simple sugars have a high glycemic index and can induce hunger and that proteins/fats keep you "satisfied" for longer (this is the theory that the Atkins is based on); so you should use care when carbo craving after a long ride.

There are a whole lot of tricks out there to keep portions down; from a little pager that reminds you to stop eating, to smaller plates. One I sort of like is to start all meals with a simple broth based soup which fills your stomach with fluid so you feel more satiated (watch the salt though).

Cardiovascular fitness rocks, but muscle is also very metabolically active (more than fat). Try weight lifting, but remember that the water in muscle weighs more than the oil in fat, so your clothes may fit better, but you may not drop as many lbs.

Hope this helps some.
-s

[dirtdigger88]

Ok I am going to get flamed big- first I "disagree" with e-richie :no: now I am going to disagree with the doc- Skrawny, do you really think BMI tells you anything? My number is 26.2 or something like that- that puts me in the overweight class- B.S.!!!! According to my height the chart I looked says I should be around 165 to 170lbs- no way!!! I realize the BMI numbers are set for middle amercia- and does not take into account more muscle mass- But you really cant look at a BMI chart with out looking at someone in person

Jason

[Skrawny]

..with your disagreement of my first statement!

Everyone's body is different, and BMI does not take into account muscle mass or % body fat. Mr. Universe would look like a fat slob to the BMI calculation, although he has a 2-4% body fat. I just wanted to make the point that he wasn't tooo overweight.
-s

[dirtdigger88]

got it- ok now hounds back off- I agreed with the man so stop your *****ing

jason

[Climb01742]

one trick i use to try portion control is to eat 3/4 of what's on my plate. normally, i almost take it as a challenge to clean my plate or eat whatever's in front of me. i also don't say "never". example: rather than saying i'll never eat sweets or desserts, i try to be good six nights a week, then indulge on saturday night. i don't think i could ever totally cut out sweets (i'm sure you have a dietary achille's heel, too! :rolleyes: ) but i try to manage it, portion control it.

[William]

BMI does not take into account muscle mass or % body fat. Mr. Universe would look like a fat slob to the BMI calculation, although he has a 2-4% body fat. I just wanted to make the point that he wasn't tooo overweight.

By that index I was told I was overweight by our previous life insurance company. 6' 6" and 250 - 260 pounds. But I don't have much fat on me at all. Yet I'm considered "overweight". :confused:

William

[Marron]

I'm really opening myself to ridicule and abuse here; but I would recommend Dr. Phil McGraw. Someone lent me his weight control book last fall and after laughing at it I read a few chapters. Four months later I'm back down to my ideal 160# at 6'2". That resulted in a very satisfying season of riding and no weight gain since.

I'll concede that some of the content is pure nonsense, but the value in the book is in the behavioral strategies for managing eating behaviours. I guess I must have a weak mind, but it worked for me and it's worked for the two other people to whom I also recommended the book.

My sense is that for most cyclists the challange of weight is really one of consumption. It's fine to say count your calories, but there are lot's of other factors that enter into the decsion about what to put in your mouth. Mcgraw's book seems to be a legitimate discussion about some of those factors and what to do about them. It's all about changing behavior.

Oh, by the way, I don't buy the argument I keep hearing from my clydesdale acquaintances that they really would be slower if they lost too much weight. Cycling is a gravity sport, lighter is faster.

[dgauthier]

Mad Mark, you mention your weight and height, but not your body fat percentage. Do you know what it is? Depending on your body composition, you may not have 20 lbs of fat to lose.

If you do in fact have 20 lbs to lose, I second Flydhest's advice concerning how to lose it. Over the last 2 years I've gone from 265 to 185, and Fly's take on sensible weight loss is dead on. All I'll add is you may wish to enlist the assistance of your doctor in monitoring your caloric intake and modifying your diet.

[SoCalSteve]

Portion control is key, first of all. Weight Watchers which is the most effective "long trem" diet ever. (its been proven time and time again) is all about portion control...

Ok, that said.

Power:

A Ferrari is all muscle and no weight, right? Just like we should be. The more lean muscle mass you have (lower body mostly-as in your legs are the engine) and the less you weigh, the faster you will go, up, flat and down.

My $.02

Steve

PS: Remember the "Lance Chronicles"? When Lance was doing the Nike commercial and he was half naked...thats what I'm talking about. All lean muscle.

[bags27]

BMI = Bull Manure Index. By the BMI, Michael Jordan was significantly overweight during his playing days.

Research shows that the "body defends its own weight", meaning that for most people, as they get older, it's extremely difficult to move and remain significantly lower than a certain settled weight. That's why so many dieters fail. That's why Lance has to lose weight every spring. Some people stay thin all their lives. For the rest of us, it's a constant battle. You could lose those 20 lbs for a racing season--although, like Tyler Hamilton, you might find yourself constantly sick. But odds are, you'll be facing the same battle the following year.

[Rich_W]

my rules... eliminate all sugar in the spring... no potatos, no bread... only sugar from fruit... I east as much fruit and veggies as possible, and keep a high protein intake. Protein shakes, chicken breast, tuna fish.

Combine with regular running on the treadmill for :30 each day, 8 sets of 25 situps on an incline board... light dumbells, and at least 2 hours on the bike each day.

Works for me each spring.... I go from 163 in winter to 158 in riding season. I'm 6'0"

[Needs Help]

Write down the calories for everything you eat, and don't consume more than 2000 calories per day. There are websites that list the calories for almost every food if there is no label on the food with that information. The first week may require looking up the calories for a lot of items, but after a week, you will have all the stuff you normally eat written down, and then you can quickly refer to those calculations.

Weight training will cause you to increase your metabolism as well as burn calories while you are lifting weights, and for most people both will contribute to weight loss.

[Climb01742]

my rules... in the spring... no potatos, no bread...

this is a pet peeve of mine...carbohydrates fall into two categories...processed and unprocessed. potatoes=unprocessed. bread=processed. processed carbs=bad. unprocessed=good. as athletes, we need unprocessed, slow burning carbs...like rice, potatoes (baked, roasted, boiled...not, sadly, french fried), grains, etc. those help us. its the processed carbs that kill us. breads, pastas, lots of cereals. based on the reading i've done (and i'm sure no doctor) an athlete can't really perform on a no-carb diet...we need natural, unprocessed, close to the earth carbs...as a side benefit to their slow burning energy stores, they have no added sugars, salts and chemicals that many processed carbs have.

[Rich_W]

I get the unprocessed carbs from better sources like fruit and veggies... not from heavy sources like breads and yams.

Plus, this conversation is about LOOSING weight... once I drop back to fighting weight, and am training regularly... my metabolism speeds upand I can eat just about anything... including ice cream.

I only gain a few pounds in the off season, cause my girl loves to bake... also know as the ulrich-syndrome.

The biggest thing that helps me shed the pounds is running hard on my treadmill, 200 situps on the incline bench, and 200-300 pushups a day. Helll, I like to do pushups when I'm bored.

[Tom]

maintains body weight. Go into deficit: intake-expense < 13 cal/lb. Obviously as a cyclist the expense part is a lot greater than for somebody who has an averagely active lifestyle.

Ha! Unsubstantiated reference to a calculation, but that's the idea. Don't crash down to where you start eating your own muscle tissue, I have a vague notion that'll happen even if you're still carrying fat. You gotta go at it slow. Fill the ocean one cup at a time.

Bernd Heinrich has an interesting take on it. He describes the sedentary lifestyle in the developed world as incredibly stressful on the human body, because this isn't what we evolved to do. He says it's really hard on the body to be inactive! When you think about it, he's right.

[SGP]

When I get down towards 200#, I loose strength, and I get sicker more frequently. The last time I was @195# I rode well but felt awful for short periods, but I could not sustain the effort.
The 150# adult male is in my world a creature of myth that all the daily recommendations are based on.
I would suggest limiting your servings and portion size. There is no quick fix, take your time.




[FONT=Arial]a time is a mind too terrible.
it is terrible to time a mind.
waste time and mind terrible.

i think i got it...

a mind is a terrible thing to waste
-e richie 2005

[Ozz]

...Oh, by the way, I don't buy the argument I keep hearing from my clydesdale acquaintances that they really would be slower if they lost too much weight. Cycling is a gravity sport, lighter is faster.
Maybe they mean slower on the descents....

I am about 10 lbs over my ideal weight...and I know my problem is portion control. Oh yes....and dessert...chocolate....pie....fried dough coated in sugar...mmmmmm, donuts! :p

Good thread....gets me thinking I should get busy addressing my weaknesses. Maybe after breakfast.

[admin]

Write down the calories for everything you eat, and don't consume more than 2000 calories per day. There are websites that list the calories for almost every food if there is no label on the food with that information. The first week may require looking up the calories for a lot of items, but after a week, you will have all the stuff you normally eat written down, and then you can quickly refer to those calculations.

Weight training will cause you to increase your metabolism as well as burn calories while you are lifting weights, and for most people both will contribute to weight loss.

A really good website for this is www.fitday.com. And its free! :banana:

[zap]

Mad Dog, how hard do you ride? Mileage means little. If your futzing around, then your going to have to resort to counting calories. Ride really hard and suffer like a dog, you will increase your hourly consumption rate on the bike. Additionally, your caloric consumption rate will remain high after the ride as your body recovers.

Getting older does make it harder to lose weight, so winter weight gain should be limited. I've had to stop eating 20 or so cookies for desert each night in the winter months.

[Idris Icabod]

I am almost your height, 6'1.5" and weigh 153 lbs. My body fat is 7% via the electrode method (poor accuracy I am told), so I am pretty scrawny. A few years ago I was almost 200 lbs and riding mostly mountain bikes. I, like you, also had a hard time losing weight. The solution I found was to take a trip to Turkey, eat in a really authentic restaurant and get some parasitic infection (lamb dishes are highly recommended). Most of the weight was expelled through my posterior (20 lbs in 3 weeks!). I would recommend never being more than about 30 seconds from the nearest commode. Surprisingly I never regained the weight and dropped some more over the next few months. The drugs my doc gave me caused more anal adventures, all in all a fantastic trip! The flight back from the UK to the US was a joy!

[hooverone]

If you can cut on trans fat, and HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) you will loose weight.

Trans fat = partially hydrogenated oil just hydrogenated oil (the labels will say partially hydrogenated olive, vegetable or ay kind of oil)

The main thing is you can cut calories but I lost weight just cutting out the foods that are really bad for you like HFCS and Trans Fat. Trans fat is horrible for you it raises your bad cholesterol and lowers your good cholesterol.

If you eat fast food it will have trans fat.

And you can find HFCS in cookies, soda, spaghetti sauce, bread; even the whole wheat stuff.


Read more here.

http://forums.menshealth.com/thread.jspa?threadID=156613&tstart=0

http://www.bantransfats.com/abouttransfat.html

Jim

[mad_mark]

I don't eat fast food but occasionally (1-2 times per month), mainly it's sushi or cooked chicken/beef with rice, or pasta (homemade sauces). Salads (black pepper and olive oil for dressing) and granola (okay, with whole milk) are other staples of my plate/bowl. Plus the occasional steak. I cut out soda, and drink water, the occasional beer, and morning coffee (no milk, small amount of raw sugar). Lots of fresh fruit (oranges, bananas, melon).

I think it'll be mainly down to portion control and maybe some more intense workouts....methinks the buying of smaller breakfast bowls might help (I eat 4lbs of granola in 8 days).

Mark.

[William]

If you can cut on trans fat, and HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) you will loose weight.

Easier said then done. I've gotten into the habit of randomly grabbing things off the shelf when I'm grocery shopping to check labels for HFCS. The stuff is in almost everything. Even in stuff you would never think of. I don't think you could even fill half of one aisle in a grocery store with things that didn't have HFCS in it.
With that being said though, most of that stuff you shouldn't be touching anyway if your watching weight. Fruits, veggies, lean meats , and non fat dairy are the way to go. Stay away from the flavored yogurts, they're loaded with simple sugars and likely have HFCS in it.
I've pretty much come to the point where the amount of calories I take in remains constant. Increases or decreases in activity are what cause my weight to fluctuate. When I'm really training hard I have to up my calories to match the increase in my metabolic rate to stabilize my weight. otherwise I start dropping. That's ok to a point, but I know the ideal range I should stay in for optimum performance. Trial and error, as I've described in previous threads, but I learned how to stay in my ideal zone.

William

[hooverone]

. Stay away from the flavored yogurts, they're loaded with simple sugars and likely have HFCS in it.

William

If you go to a organic food store you can get the flaoved yogurt with no HFSC.

We have a store called Sunflower they make it easier for you to get good stuff for example grab a jar of seeds of change organic spaghetti sauce no High Fructose Corn Syrup or Sugar.

You can still find stuff at organic stores that have HFCS and trans fat but it is the majority of the food that does not, if you go to Safeway or other big brand Grocery stores they make it much harder to find good stuff.

Here are the ingredients of Stonyfield Organic yogurt

CULTURED PASTEURIZED NONFAT MILK, STRAWBERRIES, NATURALLY MILLED SUGAR, INULIN, PECTIN, NATURAL FLAVORS, BEET JUICE CONCENTRATE (FOR COLOR). CONTAINS: L. ACIDOPHILUS, BIFIDUS, L. CASEI, AND L. REUTERI

http://www.stonyfield.com/OurProducts/AllNaturalYogurts.cfm#javascript:void(0)



Jim

[William]

Good points. That's what I look for. I was just pointing it out since many people don't realize how prevalent the use of high fructose corn syrup is.

I've often wondered if their are any studies out there focusing on the long term use of HFCS?

William

[William]

FYI, a little High Fructose corn syrup reading for you.

From the Corn Refiners Association. HFCS is good for you. Drink a gallon a day!
http://www.hfcsfacts.com/

A middle of the road info page of sorts.
http://www.mcvitamins.com/cornsyrup.htm

Processing equipment:
http://www.osmonics.com/products/Page664.htm

Another article (You will get pop-ups on this one)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24VKMH1.DTL

The Double danger of HFCS
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html

USA Today Article.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-03-25-hfcs-usat_x.htm

Honey instead?
http://www.newstarget.com/002284.html

Heather's irritable bowel syndrome.
http://www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=library&Number=48994&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

Blame for Diabetes?
http://www.defeatdiabetes.org/Articles/food040429.htm

Girls and Guns.
www.stackedandpack.....um, sorry, wrong forum. Never mind

William :rolleyes:

[bulliedawg]

Skrawny, do you really think BMI tells you anything?

Jason

BMI is BS. It was widely reported during last summer's Olympic games that according to BMI some of the fittest athletes in the world were "overweight." Sprinters Maurice Green and John Capel, basketball player Tim Duncan, swimmer Gary Hall, Jr. to name a few of the athletes that I remember having a BMI that was above the prescribed range. Shows you what a crock BMI is.

[hooverone]

ya bmi sometimes does not work but it does get people who otherwise would not be concerned about their weight concerned.

Hip to stomach ratio can be a good guide also

http://www.healthcalculators.org/calculators/waist_hip.asp


Jim

[gasman]

BMI is just a measurement- how it is used is the problem, or not.
Those athletes in the Olympics and some of you other big boys do fit wrongly into the overweight BMI category . Let me tell you though, middle america is fat, I'm sure you know it and have heard it many times. In 20 years of practice the people I see with a high BMI are just... fat. They do not have a high BMI because of muscle mass, if they lost their fat and kept all their muscle they would fit the guidelines just fine.
None of the diets work long term with any population. A recent study came out looking at a large group of people on Atkins, Ornish, Weight watchers and one other diet.After one year most people weren't on the diet and those that stuck to it lost only a few pounds. The only way to get long term results is to be motivated, watch what you eat and to exercise. Nothing you don't already know but only about 5% are successful long term.

[spiderman]

or 'failed' medical management...
most people weigh in heavier
than the previous year's pre-diet weight...
...it's like trying to hold back a
tidal wave... :crap:

[BumpyintheBurgh]

A low carb diet did it for me. Was 195lbs, 6'0" on 1/1/04, weighed in at 173lbs this morning, still 6'0". Went on a combined Atkins/Sout Beach regimen. The first 2 weeks which are the strictest, lost 12 lbs. Couldn't believe how quickly the pounds came off and I wasn't going hungry. Got down to 170lbs and my wife said I was getting too skinny, think she was jealous. Worst thing was caffeine withdrawal headaches. The South Beach book has a lot of good recipes, you've just got to cut out the pasta, potatoes and bread, which I don't miss, watch your alcohol intake, more wine, less beer and become more aware of the glycemic index of the foods you eat. I've been able to maintain at 170-173lbs for over a year now, riding regularly with no other regular exercise program. Losing those 20lbs sure made a difference in climbing these Pittsburgh hills, not to mention how better my dupa looks in tights.

[Skrawny]

BumpyintheBurgh,
Are you saying that you once had a "supa-dupa" and now just have a "dupa?"
-s

[jerk]

in the case of the athlete having to lose a good deal of weight in order to reach his natural limits and those of form, the instructor will take care to see that he wears sufficient woolen clothing including on the legs, especially if the lower limbs are covered by a layer of fat. in addition, the athlete should cover his chest immediatly under the last sweater with pages of newspaper, or else a cloth corset to protect his abdomen. if the layer of fat on the athlete's body is uniform and abundent, the newspaper should also be spread over his back. if the weather during the preliminary training period is so cold that the extremities become numb, the athlete should stop pedaling, get off his bicycle and have a short run to warm up and get his body in tone. if further weight problems persist, instead of training at a normal pace, it should be intensified.

more newspaper!

jerk

[weisan]

in the case of the athlete having to lose a good deal of weight in order to reach his natural limits and those of form, the instructor will take care to see that he wears sufficient woolen clothing including on the legs, especially if the lower limbs are covered by a layer of fat. in addition, the athlete should cover his chest immediatly under the last sweater with pages of newspaper, or else a cloth corset to protect his abdomen. if the layer of fat on the athlete's body is uniform and abundent, the newspaper should also be spread over his back. if the weather during the preliminary training period is so cold that the extremities become numb, the athlete should stop pedaling, get off his bicycle and have a short run to warm up and get his body in tone. if further weight problems persist, instead of training at a normal pace, it should be intensified.

more newspaper!

jerk

Senor Jerk, are you serious about this? I can't tell if you are jokin' or brewing some ancient Belgium tea.

[Climb01742]

a few random thoughts...

years ago, when sugar was the only sweetener used in foods, sugar was pretty expensive, so food companies added very little, so food was healthier. with the invention of HFCS, it suddenly go dirt cheap to add a sweetener, and like adding nicotine to cigs, food makers discovered...wow, people come back for more. weight gain meets economic theory.

my significant other is trying the south beach diet book, says it makes sense, and its working for her.

a friend of mine who used to be a pro racer said this is how racers lose weight...consume nothing but coffee all day, ride like crazy, and eat a big dinner. sounds healthy and fun, eh? :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

finally, losing weight sucks.