The $1,500 complete bike...

[Kevan]

One of my pals is seriously close to buying a new bike and getting back into the cycling lifestyle. I admire his insistence that he keep firm to his budget, knowing that there is better and more expense stuff out there, but not getting sucked in as yet. So he’s got in mind a Giant.

He’s like many of us who have gotten busy with life and have left their old steed in the basement or garage, to serve as relic.

We ran into each other at the local shop last Saturday and I gave him the ol’ schpeel about fit.. fit.. fit... I also told him that he’s at the starting point of the good bike range for new bikes, certainly the perfect point where he can decide if he’s into this sport, or worse… like us… totally absorbed.. sucked in… slaves. Anyway, I told him that beyond the bike’s fit, it’s the feel that counts, that he has got to get out on the bike and determine if he likes the ride. I told him that at a reliable shop, for the money he was dropping, it didn’t matter whether the bike was a Trek or a Giant, or anything else for that matter, they’re all equal in quality. I don’t believe Serotta has anything in this price range, but if I’m wrong I’ll pass along the details.

WE spoke of components, which on these bikes are all Shimano, that he’d love the shifting quality of 105’s and lucky if he could get Ultegra.

So we poked and prodded for a while, talked about aluminum frames compared to the Giant’s CF frame for about 2 notes more (ain’t that always the case…). I did note that I wasn’t too impressed with the new front derailleur hanger which is plastic and bolted to the seat tube. It seems that Trek and Giant both bolt theirs, Trek’s, to the back of the tube (at least not rivets!), Giant’s to the front. I’d prefer to see collar clamps, but the seat tube is oversized and funky shaped, so there you go.

I figure if he likes the sport and its social aspects, he’ll be back… for more… and better.

[Sandy]

If your pal is going to do most of his riding with you, couldn't he simply get a tricycle and be done with it? :)

Unicycle Sandy

[flydhest]

Kev,

Used, baby. Got my CSi frame/fork/hs for $700 NOS, threw on Campy Centaur and I have a complete bike for about $1500 that is an amazing bike.

[Sandy]

A beautiful CSi on the road for $1500 must be the deal of the decade. If one knows exactly what he wants, there are some amazing bargains on previously owned Serottas (or other bikes).

Sandman

[flydhest]

Sandy,

Indeed it is a deal. Too many people believe the hype about stiffness this and that. Gotta have a super stiff frame, gotta have a light frame, gotta have a stiff crankset, gotta have nifty wheels.

Nonsense. This bike rides so well it's freaky. A good steel fork, a well designed steel bike, tubular tires on 32 spoke wheels. There is nobody who could outride me while I'm on this bike who couldn't outride me while I'm on any other bike.

For someone who is new to the sport, it strikes me that the best thing to do is show them where the value is. Campy Centaur is a heck of a component group. New handbuilt wheels with Centaur hubs, and some decent rims will come in in the $200 range, I reckon. I bought this set from amg with Chorus hubs, reflex rims, and two sets of tires for $200.

I like nifty gear too, at times, but spending tons of dough on carbon cranks and carbon wheels, heck even a carbon or Ti frame, should be done because you think it's fun, not because it's necessary to spend a lot of dough.

[Big Dan]

Fly, looking at the crazy component prices right now the Campy Centaur looks to be a great deal. You have a solid bike that will provide the same timeless ride for years ....
without too much hype...........great choice. :D

[yeehawfactor]

if he's just getting into it and isn't sure where he will be in a year, i would suggest the trek. mostly for the excellent resale value(assuming he'll be selling to either upgrade or abandon), the frame at this price point is made in the usa, ultegra/105 mix, and bonty wheels. he should ride both the trek and the giant however, it is his decision.

[weisan]

I personally witnessed two used bikes (all in my size!!) sold on eBay over the past few days for this much:

Serotta CSI Ultegra Complete Bike: Less than $900
Serotta Classique Ti DA-9 Complete Bike: Less than $1200

At those price points, the buyer could essentially ride the bike for a couple of years and get back what they paid for in the resale market. No kidding!

Tell him to think creative and think BIG. More bang for the buck.

PS. For the discerning bike collector, a 13-years-old bike recently fetched more than $1500, and we are talking about just the FRAME/FORK ALONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7133445615

RedTurbo-pal, I feel your pain. ;)

[Kevan]

considering where he is, not knowing his size, not knowing the market too well… he’s better off buying new, I think. Also, the new guys ALWAYS want the new bikes.

I suspect the resale concern isn’t going to come into play here. First off, he’ll likely keep this bike several years. Let’s face it, most of us took this approach.

Finally, the last thing I want to do is recommend an Ebay deal that goes south. Let him deal with a shop and pay his dues.

[weisan]

considering where he is, not knowing his size, not knowing the market too well… he’s better off buying new, I think. Also, the new guys ALWAYS want the new bikes.

I suspect the resale concern isn’t going to come into play here. First off, he’ll likely keep this bike a several of years. Let’s face it, most of us took this approach.

Finally, the last thing I want to do is recommend an Ebay deal that goes south. Let him deal with a shop and pay his dues.

That is why 1% of the population gets ahead of the rest of 99%. Sounds offensive but true. Risk-taking, and taking the road less travelled.

[Blastinbob]

Kevan, I've seen bunch of the supergo house brand bikes, the scattante, on the roads here in So Cal. The aluminum bike is in his price range, and it has 10sp ultegra, minus the crankset. Most of the ones I see are the all carbon models, but they are a little out of his budget. Link to the supergo ad (http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=25871&hotdeal=true)

[cinelli]

A beautiful CSi on the road for $1500 must be the deal of the decade. If one knows exactly what he wants, there are some amazing bargains on previously owned Serottas (or other bikes).

Sandman
Sandy.

A clean CSI with Dura-Ace 9 speed went for $1500. and change on eBay last weekend. I'm sure someone on this forum ended up wih it. :banana:

[bostondrunk]

I agree with Bob. Tell him to get a new bike. There is no need for him to spend 1200 on a used bike just because it says serotta.
Besides, I'd be willing to bet the new carbon sciante (or however its spelled) outfitted with Ultegra is gonna ride nicer than a 3-4 year old used anything..

[weisan]

Uncle Bob has my vote too on the scattante.

[victoryfactory]

Kevan;

Don't forget about Gary Hobbs.
He specalizes in traditional steel rides and usually has
a bunch of ultegra bikes in stock for < 1500.
GVHbikes.com
He's a great guy to deal with, too

VF

[marle]

Kevan,

Before my yellow CSI, I had a Bianchi Giro. The alu is too stiff.

But, Bianchi has an interesting $1700 steel bike -- Veloce.

http://www.bianchiusa.com/561.html

Marc

[TimD]

...
Besides, I'd be willing to bet the new carbon sciante (or however its spelled) outfitted with Ultegra is gonna ride nicer than a 3-4 year old used anything..

I've ridden the Supergo carbon. It is a very nice ride for the money (2004 models with Ultegra are priced at $1300). I'm not looking to start a barroom brawl here, but IMHO it was some way short of my used Legend Ti, which had at least 10K miles on it at the time of purchase. :)

A colleague also has a Supergo Al with Ultegra drivetrain. The wheels weren't particularly good as delivered and went out-of-true quickly. But over time he's been quite happy with it.

TimD

[davids]

A new cyclist should buy a new bike from a reputable shop. He'll have peace of mind and all the support he needs.

I've always liked Trek and Specialized in this price range: Trek 1500 - list is $1,100
Trek 1500 - list is $1,100
Trek 2100c - list is $1,650
Trek 2100 - list is $1,680
Specialized Allez Elite - list is $1,100
Specialized Roubaix - list is $1,600
Specialized Allez Comp cro-mo - list is $1,700

Bianchi's nice, too - They've got a lot of bikes in this price range!

[dgauthier]

I got my Bianchi Vigorelli brand new in 2002 for $1485. Tigged steel (steel is a good idea for new - ie: fat - riders), Ultegra triple, Mavic Cosmos wheels. Bianchi makes the best value in bikes, IMHO. The only bikes that beat it started at three times the price. Also of interest in the price range are some of the steel Lemonds.

[Climb01742]

here's a counter argument for maybe getting a nice used something (with resale value in a year or two): two years ago, my significant other wanted to get into riding. i got her a steel lemond. a perfectly nice beginner bike. she totally got into riding. last year, she wanted something lighter, snappier. found a great deal on a seven ti frame that had not sold at a local shop. she now loves it, and will for a few years. but we have this heavy steel lemond collecting dust. with not much resale value.

so...if a beginner finds a used nice frame (name your builder), if they outgrow it fast, they can resale it, and get a "better" frame. and not have the first frame collect dust.

i think a case can be made for both ways: a bargain new frame or a used nice frame with resale. either are good.

[PaulE]

A friend and neighbor bought a complete steel fierte when they first came out with a combination of Ultegra and 105 for $1,800. The price has probably gone up since then, but it is worth considering if $1,500 is not an absolute limit.

[CNote]

What about this one for $1500 and change w/ Record? The seller obviously wouldn't know this bike from a hole in the ground, but his ratings would suggest it wasn't a scam.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7132968125

[Kevan]

in this price range. Definitely more bikes are purchased here than the loftier levels. I'll bring all your suggestions to his attention. I've been careful not to take over this project from him. He's wanted to control his direction so I'm not likely to press any alternatives.

Let's face it... when you don't have a bike at all, only a new one will do. At least I think most of us are cut that way. Imagine any guy's face when you suggest, "Hey man...buy used!" I've heard about some headaches with the internet bike stores too. Bikes with garbage bb's. No understanding offered about short cranks, narrow bars, crappy seats, and worst yet - short stems!!!!

My father, the wise man he is, took me out to dinner when I was but a young man (still am tho) and taught me the ropes on buying a good inexpensive bottle of wine. I remember it like it happened just yesterday (reflecting, now pinching my chin repeatedly and looking off into space). His words were, "Son, any one can buy a good expensive bottle of wine. The trick is to buy a good inexpensive bottle, that's where the true talent lies." With that advise given me to ponder, he summoned the waiter over to our table, made his selection, and with the first taste I realized my father's talents needed improving.

Sometimes, you're better off just buying the expensive stuff and be done with it. :D

[hooverone]

He could have a custom curtlo frame for $ 695.00

[BarryG]

considering where he is, not knowing his size, not knowing the market too well… he’s better off buying new, I think.
You think right. Just help him find a LBS that will do a good job fitting him and will actually listen to him.

Barry

[davids]

My father, the wise man he is, took me out to dinner when I was but a young man (still am tho) and taught me the ropes on buying a good inexpensive bottle of wine. I remember it like it happened just yesterday (reflecting, now pinching my chin repeatedly and looking off into space). His words were, "Son, any one can buy a good expensive bottle of wine. The trick is to buy a good inexpensive bottle, that's where the true talent lies." With that advise given me to ponder, he summoned the waiter over to our table, made his selection, and with the first taste I realized my father's talents needed improving.

Sometimes, you're better off just buying the expensive stuff and be done with it. :D
LOL! Good story, well told! Of course, you father was right. Acquiring the true talent, that's the trick...

[bcm119]

Find a Felt dealer. Felt has some of the best budget road bikes out there- Ultegra 10 on an AL/carbon frame for $1400.

[vaxn8r]

I've said it before, the best bang for the buck on proven technology: Cannondale Caad 7 or 8.

R700 with Caad7, Shimano 105 and R550's: $1,199. That is a killer bike. Do you realize Shimano 105 bikes were retailing for that exact price about 15-16 years ago? The C-Dales are far more technologically advanced than anything out of Supergo and you buy it from your local shop. Of course, you can take your Supergo bike into your local shop to make it work right once it's delivered, but they're going to charge you for that. For another $400 you move up to Veloce and Caad8.

The only difference between C7 and C8 is a slightly lighter ST and the way the SS are welded to the ST. Not sure it's worth the "upgrade" but don't we all buy into the "upgrade" mentality whether its a C-Dale or a new Ottrott with newer, stiffer, lighter CF?

[CNote]

Yeah, but don't the latest generation C-Dale frames come with some kind of disclaimer basically saying that the frame may only survive a couple of seasons of hard use?

[Big Dan]

If the new rider gets a Cannondale be sure they also gets some earplugs... :eek:

:bike:

How about the Lemond Sarthe?
True Temper steel frame , Veloce 10 sp, orange paint (climb's favorite).....around 1500........... :D

[vaxn8r]

If the new rider gets a Cannondale be sure they also gets some earplugs... :eek:

:bike:

How about the Lemond Sarthe?
True Temper steel frame , Veloce 10 sp, orange paint (climb's favorite).....around 1500........... :D
I usually like your posts Big Dan but I gotta call you on that. If your C-Dale creaks you got a bad mechanic or you don't know how to set it up.

Lemond would be a solid choice.

[Climb01742]

How about the Lemond Sarthe?
True Temper steel frame , Veloce 10 sp, orange paint (climb's favorite).....around 1500........... :D

please repeat after me...if its orange, its great...if its orange, its great...ever notice, nothing rhymes with orange? lousy word, great color! :rolleyes:

[William]

Climb is correct, I know, I've tried. So have others:

Orange rhymes with Lozenge, as shown in the Limerick by Jim Farrand:
I know of a scholar from Holland,
Who's vocab must need to be broadened,
There's no rhyme for orange?
But what about "lozenge"?
His list of word primes should be shortened!

Also, there are no rhyming words to these either:

Purple
Pint
Nothing
Silver
Month
Orange


What does this have to do with cycling you ask???
Climb summed it up:

please repeat after me...if its orange, its great...if its orange, its great...ever notice, nothing rhymes with orange? lousy word, great color!

If the bike is Orange, it's great!

William, who typed this post in hast,
before his coffee goes to waste. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Big Dan]

Vax, don't know about newer models, but I had or still have somewhere a Caad 3 that use to drive me nuts.. :confused:
Every 2 or 3 weeks everything had to come out for some greasing, BB, headset, seatpost..etc...
Never had as bad a problems with other aluminium frames (Klein, Specialized).
Anyways I hear them all time riding down here in Miami, so I guess I'm not the only one that needs your set up help.... :help:

[JohnS]

I know I'll get flamed for this, but any of the bikes mentioned (Bianchi, Lemond, C'dale) with 105 or Veloce is all the bike that 99% of the forum readers need for their riding abilities. Isn't WANT a great thing? It keeps Serotta and the others in business!

[Kevan]

with my friend and he appreciates all the energy spent, but he's marching forward as planned.

Tomorrow, Saturday, he's got a date with one of our local shops to be fitted. From there he'll make his selection most likely from off the rack.

JohnS you are entirely correct. My Calfee has had to settle for the casual life, with some moments of shear terror due to its bone-head rider's actions. :D

[vaxn8r]

Vax, don't know about newer models, but I had or still have somewhere a Caad 3 that use to drive me nuts.. :confused:
Every 2 or 3 weeks everything had to come out for some greasing, BB, headset, seatpost..etc...
Never had as bad a problems with other aluminium frames (Klein, Specialized).
Anyways I hear them all time riding down here in Miami, so I guess I'm not the only one that needs your set up help.... :help:
Fair enough, but there's a lot of C-Dales up here in Oregon (most common bike raced up here in the rainy state) and, yeah, I've heard some, but I've heard some $$ ti bikes creaking away too. Your bike is either tuned properly or it isn't. It has nothing to do with brand.

IMO the louder the creak, usually the dirtier the bike. Some guys just don't care about their equipment. No offense to you, just an observation.

Steel bikes don't tend to creak much but anything with a ti or AL BB threads is prone to make noise. Still, you don't have to live with it. This could be, and has been the topic of entire threads.

I can't speak for CAAD 3's...that was 5 generations ago man....

[gt6267a]

there is some talk about engaging the used market without enough experience to make a quality decision. in my mind, the same is true of buying a new bike with little saddle time. what a rider needs is way to speed up the learning process. i think a serotting fitting session is a great way to do that.

i learned a good bit about fit, bikes, and riding in general from my fitter. i then took the information from my fit and bought a used bike. my intention to do this was made clear at the begining of the process and it worked out well.

i did end up purchasing a used serotta, CRL, and am very happy. there is a difference between an on-bike fit and a serotta style fitting. whether or your friend is open to purchasing used or not, he might consider getting fit ...

[beungood]

I bought a new Specialized Allez comp cro-mo full ultegra ,Carbon fork,spd pedals helmet,shoes for $1600. It's not a Serotta but it's a start. It rides great and fits me well. I love the bike and feel it is a good starting point or me and I can grow with it for awhile.

Jack

[Frankwurst]

If the guy is just getting into riding do him a favor and point him in the direction of a more comfortable frame. He's not going to the races. He wants to get into the sport. I wouldn't give you two cents for an aluminum frame and I have one built up for spring (salty roads) riding. I don't race anymore so weight is not a priority. I am partial to steel but that does'nt mean it's the real deal. Have him test ride numerous bikes of different makes and tell him to look for comfort. Going fast for a short distance has alot of appeal for new riders but if going a long distance is the goal, comfort is where it's at. :beer: