Buell out of business...

[dd74]

I don't have a motorcycle, but I am a fan of the machine.

I was saddened to find out Buell is ceasing production. Harley-Davidson is having a rough go of it, with profits down 82%, so I think Buell (as well as Agusta) are prime targets.

Erik Buell's message:

http://www.buell.com/en_us/

[Charles M]

Ahhhh

The inverse of Bicycle Industry.


Here's an Anglo-Am company that tried to Knock off Asian product :)


Problem is the fans were chubby guys in leather that doesnt really protect you, Bandana's for helmets and a cigar... With a solid tip of the cap to FANTASTIC Dirt Track racing, Sport bikes are just not the purchase focus of the Harley Demographic and Harkey are not the focus of the Sport Bike crowd (even with warped rules to give them a roadrace advantage)...

[dd74]

Ahhhh

The inverse of Bicycle Industry.
Interesting. Are sales up in the bicycle biz? I would think across the board, all luxury items - a bike I would think is one of them - would be down.

[Volant]

That's a bummer. I was visiting PDG around '90 and they were working on a prototype tank for Buell and saying how Erik is going to run fuel in the frame and this guy is going to be somebody. I never heard of Buell before then. He's sure done some innovative things.

[uno-speedo]

Interesting.

I wonder how some of the custom chopper companies are doing?

[Peter B]

That's a bummer. Erik was a true innovator who built some great motorcycles. Sounds like Harley pulled the plug on their support?

[Blue Jays]

This is unfortunate news by all accounts.
They're similarly on two wheels.
Motorcycles help bicycle races happen and enhance top-notch officiating.

[dd74]

Here's an Anglo-Am company that tried to Knock off Asian product :)
I never thought "knock-off Asian product" when I saw a Buell. I thought the opposite - vis-a-vis, not another cookie cutter Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, etc.


Problem is the fans were chubby guys in leather that doesnt really protect you, Bandana's for helmets and a cigar... With a solid tip of the cap to FANTASTIC Dirt Track racing, Sport bikes are just not the purchase focus of the Harley Demographic and Harkey are not the focus of the Sport Bike crowd (even with warped rules to give them a roadrace advantage)...
At best you describe (loosely) a Harley rider who's probably too old to ride these days. The current crop of H-D riders seem to be more yuppie than old school types.

As for Buell, only in V-twin power alone did those bikes share anything with H-D, at least in my novice opinion. To me, Buell bikes seemed more for the hipster cafe racer crowd with checkered flags painted on their helmets, and wearing big googles.

[Nathanrtaylor]

My Buell is still the best motorcycle I've ever ridden, and I plan on keeping it for a long time still.

It doesn't have the smoothest or most powerful motor, but it's a perfect example of the whole being greater than it's parts. It's been to more than half of the states in the US, and ridden on greater than 1000 mile days and still been comfortable.

I was very sad when I saw this. Erik Buell looked utterly destroyed in his announcement on the Buell website.

[thwart]

Erik Buell looked utterly destroyed in his announcement on the Buell website. Worth watching just to see what closing a company can do to someone. Too bad that apparently many other company presidents don't have that same level of involvement.

[johnnymossville]

I always admired Buell for taking the road less traveled and actually innovating in a few very interesting ways. I've ridden a few Buells over the years and they were really great bikes. I know they weren't for everyone but I'm going to miss them.

And yes, the video pretty much says it all. I had a hard time getting through it myself. I can only imagine what Erik is going through. It's obvious he's always been VERY passionate about the bike bearing his name.

[avalonracing]

As for Buell, only in V-twin power alone did those bikes share anything with H-D

That is a problem in itself.

I ride a Japanese motorcycle but I'm still sad to see Buell fold. The biggest shame is that Buell was an innovator and HD keeps turning on the same ancient technology, not because it works but because it is the crap that they keep marketing. It's been said before but would anyone buy a HD if it didn't have the HD name on it?

[dancinkozmo]

That is a problem in itself.

I ride a Japanese motorcycle but I'm still sad to see Buell fold. The biggest shame is that Buell was an innovator and HD keeps turning on the same ancient technology, not because it works but because it is the crap that they keep marketing. It's been said before but would anyone buy a HD if it didn't have the HD name on it?

agreed...saw this on a T-shirt once :

"If Harley Davidson built an airplane would you fly in it ?"

Buell did do some pretty innovative and interesting stuff, just not my cup of tea. Sad to see them go.

[mpetry]

First, yeah, Buell was audacious and uncompromised in their product vision and it's a damn shame they are giving it up. I never owned one of their bikes but I always thought they were cool.

I don't care for Harley at all, the image does not really appeal to me, but wait a sec - I can think of few other companies that sell a product that is so iconic, so uncompromised, as a harley davidson motorcycle. You don't even need to look at it, really, you KNOW. And it is remarkably little changed since the 60s.

Only one other company out there has succeeded in making its brand image so solidly entrenched in the conciousness of the public, selling a product so shamelessly iconoclastic that it is largely unchanged since the 50s when it was introduced.

What company is that?

(hint - you wear it on your wrist. James Bond had one back in the day)

???

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

[Ken Robb]

I rode a couple of Buells and liked them quite a bit. When I was in the market I was so VERY turned off by the local dealership that I just left.

Buells are so different from Harleys (even though some models use Sportster engines) that there was no way that having a Harley dealer be the Buell dealer was going to work. The bikes were hard to even find in a corner of the showroom and the "salesman" neither knew nor cared anything about Buells.
I could only imagine the service department would be equally inept.

It was a bit like going to a Chrysler dealer to buy a Porsche. :rolleyes:

[dancinkozmo]

..great point; Buell would have done much better if they sold them at multi line dealerships alongside japanese bikes.

[dannyg1]

[QUOTE=mpetry

Only one other company out there has succeeded in making its brand image so solidly entrenched in the conciousness of the public, selling a product so shamelessly iconoclastic that it is largely unchanged since the 50s when it was introduced.

What company is that?

(hint - you wear it on your wrist. James Bond had one back in the day)

???

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA[/QUOTE]

Watches? Patek, Vacheron, Breguet, Rolex, Baume&Mercier, even Ugh! Heuer all fit the quiz, except for the timeline - Most of these brands made their marque over centuries, not decades, all pretty much true to the original vision.

So what's truly unchanged since the '50's? Vacuum tube amps? Bicycles? On this forum I vote Alex Singer.

[Blue Jays]

dannyg1, and don't forget Omega in your list... :beer:

[Ken Robb]

Watches? Patek, Vacheron, Breguet, Rolex, Baume&Mercier, even Ugh! Heuer all fit the quiz, except for the timeline - Most of these brands made their marque over centuries, not decades, all pretty much true to the original vision.

So what's truly unchanged since the '50's? Vacuum tube amps? Bicycles? On this forum I vote Alex Singer.

Anyone who read the James Bond books would know he wore a Rolex that he used as brass (stainless steel?) knuckles.

[dd74]

Anyone who read the James Bond books would know he wore a Rolex that he used as brass (stainless steel?) knuckles.
Not to get off topic, but I have a Welsh friend who tells me Ian Flemming is spinning in his grave with disgust at how Hollywood treats his Bond character.

The guy was a royalist bastard at best. And he'd be the first to tell you so.

In the NY Times Book Review, there was an article about the discrepancy between Flemming's Bond and Hollywood's Bond. They reprinted the conclusion of "Casino Royale" to prove the difference against the film version. Wow! By the book's conclusion alone, I took away that Bond was one bad SOB, and definitely not some pansy in a tux. :cool:

[jpw]

Interesting. Are sales up in the bicycle biz? I would think across the board, all luxury items - a bike I would think is one of them - would be down.

Err,...luxury item???

[dd74]

Err,...luxury item???
Anything over Walmart prices -- yep. :)

[ti_boi]

I have admired Buell bikes in the past. I admit that I have never ridden one. They are sure to be a collectible item now. Harley's are an interesting product too. I see them for sale with very few miles. My theory is that guys (and perhaps) girls buy them, find that they do not "transform" them into cool rebels...and then decide to sell em. Go figure. :beer:

[LegendRider]

I'm not a motorcycle guy, but one thing in the video clip struck me as odd. Buell said (I'm paraphrasing) "we've proven that a smart company can compete with the industry giants." Really? You're announcing the company's demise - how have you proven you can compete?

[Kirk Pacenti]

I'm not a motorcycle guy, but one thing in the video clip struck me as odd. Buell said (I'm paraphrasing) "we've proven that a smart company can compete with the indistry giants." Really? You're announcing the company's demise - how have you proven you can compete?

I am sure he was speaking about their recent championship; winning against much larger and better funded factory teams. It was also evident that he believed his products were as good as or better than his Japanese and European competition.

That may or may not be true. What is certainly true (at least in my experience) is that great companies and superior products fail in the market place every day. Often times the success or failure of a company has very little to do with the quality of the product.

Replace Buell with any number of high-end, semi-custom bicycle companies competing with the likes of Trek, Cannondale, Specialized or Giant and you'll see my meaning. In some cases it clear the smaller company's product is superior to the big brands but they can't compete with the larger co's efficiencies of scale, marketing, distribution or dealer networks.

The way I heard Gary Fisher put it to Tom Ritchey, "The one with the biggest marketing budget wins"...

Cheers,

KP

[LegendRider]

I am sure he was speaking about their recent championship; winning against much larger and better funded factory teams. It was also evident that he believed his products were as good as or better than his Japanese and European competition.

That may or may not be true. What is certainly true (at least in my experience) is that great companies and superior products fail in the market place every day. Often times the success or failure of a company has very little to do with the quality of the product.

Replace Buell with any number of high-end, semi-custom bicycle companies competing with the likes of Trek, Cannondale, Specialized or Giant and you'll see my meaning. In some cases it clear the smaller company's product is superior to the big brands but they can't compete with the larger co's efficiencies of scale, marketing, distribution or dealer networks.

The way I heard Gary Fisher put it to Tom Ritchey, "The one with the biggest marketing budget wins"...

Cheers,

KP

I understand your thinking, but the term "marketplace" has a specific meaning - selling motorcycles. They didn't sell enough to compete despite whatever successes they had in racing, product development and engineering. Anyway, I'm just being pedantic.

[Charles M]

Yeah but the rules would have been changed because they were handed too much of an advantage...

Buell raced an 1125CC bike in the 600 class... And still only scraped by with a 5 point margin (387 to 382) over 20 races.




Hey I liked the Idea's they had. It's just that they never stopped to really take the ideas far enough to make the total package as good as the sport bikes they competed against. (or really even close honestly)

They just did a 3/4 job in execution...

Had they actually made a good product instead of thinking a performance based product could be "harley marketed" to the point of success, they would have made a mint.


Harley had a great image and as long as they made at least a reasonable product, they would sell. One of the most common sayings is "I would rather push a Harley than ride a rice rocket"...

The problem is that in the sport bike market you have to have a top performing product.

Had Buell made a top performing product, they could have been an American Ducati...

Instead they worked on the "bells and whistles" but never bothered to make sure the bells and whistles made music.

[Peter B]

Harley pulled the plug.


"And after Danny Eslick took the AMA Pro Daytona SportBike championship this year on a Buell 1125R, although a very controversial machine for the Daytona SportBike class, it seemed that all was going well for their marketing built upon pure performance.

But all came to a major halt on Thursday, Oct. 15, when parent-company Harley-Davidson announced that Buell motorcycles will be terminated as part of The Motor Company’s “go-forward business strategy”.

Harley’s strategy now will be to drive company growth by focusing solely on the Harley-Davidson brand, with additional plans to sell the pricey Italian MV Augusta brand that was bought for $109 Million just 16 months ago.

"Moving forward, our strategy is designed to strengthen Harley-Davidson for long-term growth and deliver results through increased focus," says Keith Wandell, Chief Executive Officer of Harley-Davidson, Inc. "The fact is we must focus both our effort and our investment on the Harley-Davidson brand, as we believe this provides an optimal path to sustained, meaningful, long-term growth."

A wholly owned subsidiary of Harley-Davidson, Inc. since 1998, Buell Motorcycle Company was founded in 1983 by Erik Buell and produced more than 135,000 motorcycles. Over the past 26 years, Buell motorcycles won numerous design accolades and awards, and countless races and championships around the world, including the 2009 AMA Pro Daytona SportBike championship.

Harley has reduced production by 30 percent due to the economy, cutting more than 1,000 jobs at both Wisconsin plants. Another facility that is facing shut down is the York plant in Pennsylvania. H-D is looking to modernize the York factory, or move it to another state where it can operate more efficiently. An announcement on York’s fate is expected by the end of the year.

All these changes come after H-D reported sales being down more than 30 percent, and second-quarter profits plunging 91 percent."



source: http://www.allaboutbikes.com/index.php/manufacturers/buell/1270-buell-closes-shop

[Kirk Pacenti]

I understand your thinking, but the term "marketplace" has a specific meaning - selling motorcycles. They didn't sell enough to compete despite whatever successes they had in racing, product development and engineering. Anyway, I'm just being pedantic.

Actually your making my point.

[LegendRider]

...

[Kirk Pacenti]

So, do we agree that whatever success Buell had, it wasn't in the "marketplace?"

Yes we do.

And to reiterate, I don't believe having the best products guarantees success in the marketplace.

[spacemen3]

http://www.pedalmag.com/images/pedal/4aa73a8f94edf1205_Cavendish_MotoPrize_gc.2.jpg?PHP SESSID=f70d84f915904f2c760a0c5d6e3a02cf

[Charles M]

I wouldnt say that they were a success in the marketplace or at the races...

They're shutting down and were never a brand with a lot of relative praise in the class. And the AMA Dayntona Sportbike class, to be clear, was full of 600's versus an 1125 Buell...


Heck to add to it, their 1125 wasnt even a proper homologation. It was a straight-up race design, where the other bikes had to have a foundation in full production road motorcycles.


Ducati is an example of a reasonable bike. They have a genuine production road bike that is a properly homologated 1098 V (The V is what Buell suggested was a huge disadvantage). And Ducati raced it in the 1000cc class. Ducati raced a 7 in the 6 class.


When the rest of the sport bike world make a track only, non production based bike they race it in MotoGP or at best World Superbike... When Buell do it they race in a National, rather than international series against road based bikes with half their displacement.



While race teams were forced to accept the rules for a season, customers are not forced to buy an inferior product... And they didn't

[csm]

iirc, Ducati raced the 900s in the superbike class. that put them against mostly japanese 750s. the ama would penalize them with the addition of weights for each success; which allowed Ducati to lower the center of gravity by placing the penalty weights low on the bike further increasing their competitiveness and causing the ama to add more weight...... I guess eventually it must have actually slowed them and gotten to where the ama wanted it.
I rode a Buell and found it to be a neat but niche bike. I think HD may have done more damage long-term by buying them but we'll never really know if they could have been a viable brand w/o the HD support.

[MilanoTom]

Anyone who read the James Bond books would know he wore a Rolex that he used as brass (stainless steel?) knuckles.

Yeah, and it had an expansion band (aka Twist-O-Flex), too!

[Ken Robb]

http://www.pedalmag.com/images/pedal/4aa73a8f94edf1205_Cavendish_MotoPrize_gc.2.jpg?PHP SESSID=f70d84f915904f2c760a0c5d6e3a02cf

Gee, I didn't know Curt Goodrich was brazing their frames. :)

[William]

Too bad. :(

I've owned motorcycles in the past and hope to again in the future (mrs. William is not to happy about that). Buell was certainly on my short list along with Ducati. I tend to swim against the hordes so it will be something that isn't popularized by the masses. That's also one of the many reason why I wouldn't go with HD. In this state everyone and their mother rides one.

But hey, that's just me. :)


William

[vjp]

I had the privilege to do some work with Buell/Harley Davidson and I find it very sad indeed. I hope that Mr. Buell is allowed to carry on in someway but I bet all the IP is owned by HD.

Here are some galleries of the work I did.

http://www.photomob.com/work_buell_2006.html

http://www.photomob.com/work_buell_2005.html

vjp

[Pete Serotta]

:) :cool:

I wouldnt say that they were a success in the marketplace or at the races...

They're shutting down and were never a brand with a lot of relative praise in the class. And the AMA Dayntona Sportbike class, to be clear, was full of 600's versus an 1125 Buell...


Heck to add to it, their 1125 wasnt even a proper homologation. It was a straight-up race design, where the other bikes had to have a foundation in full production road motorcycles.


Ducati is an example of a reasonable bike. They have a genuine production road bike that is a properly homologated 1098 V (The V is what Buell suggested was a huge disadvantage). And Ducati raced it in the 1000cc class. Ducati raced a 7 in the 6 class.


When the rest of the sport bike world make a track only, non production based bike they race it in MotoGP or at best World Superbike... When Buell do it they race in a National, rather than international series against road based bikes with half their displacement.



While race teams were forced to accept the rules for a season, customers are not forced to buy an inferior product... And they didn't

[r_mutt]

iirc, Ducati raced the 900s in the superbike class. that put them against mostly japanese 750s. the ama would penalize them with the addition of weights for each success; which allowed Ducati to lower the center of gravity by placing the penalty weights low on the bike further increasing their competitiveness and causing the ama to add more weight...... I guess eventually it must have actually slowed them and gotten to where the ama wanted it.


in the "old days" twins in both the ama and wsbk were allowed 1000cc against the 750cc fours. the ducati started racing first as an 851cc superbike, then, as the competition caught up, ducati increased capacity to 888cc. the all-new 916 was released, followed by more capacity increases yearly to keep ahead of the competition (which they did very well), first to 955, then to 996 and finally to 998. at this point, the japanese inline fours were "allowed" to compete using equal displacement. it was now 1000cc twins vs. 1000cc fours.


btw, i'm not a fan of buell, but i am sad to see the company fold. it was indeed a strange bike.

[buck-50]

If I may, the big problem Buell had was that their product was targeted at an almost non-existent market.

They made a very cool bike.

But the bikes they made didn't appeal to harley riders- too high strung, too compact, too completely not a cruiser in any way shape or form.

They built a sportbike, but one that was not exactly anything a person looking for a sportbike was really looking for. It didn't appeal to sportbike riders because it was at it's heart still a harley-davidson product. And just as there are folks who won't ride anything but Harleys, there are even more who will not ride a harley ever. For all Buell's really cool ideas, none of those ideas made the bike perform as well as a Japanese 600 that cost less. And, they never got over their reputation for being a little on the unreliable side. Again, when you compare this to any Japanese 600, that's a problem- some of those bikes have 15,000 mile service intervals. They just don't break.

So they end up with a very tiny market- sport bike riders with enough disposable income to pay more for their product, who really want to buy american, who weren't interested in performance as much as they were interested in engineering. Folks who prized "unique" over "functional."

There just aren't enough of those folks to base a brand around.

[torquer]

"If Harley Davidson built an airplane would you fly in it ?"
My (MC outsider) impression of HD has always been that they keep on building DC-3s. Those were great planes, in the 1940's.
I suppose the same could be said of BMW's boxers, but somehow they seem to have aged a lot better.

Anyway, saw a business news story a few weeks back that HD was expanding their sales presence in India. Guess they see more growth selling hogs to IT outsourcers there than in selling sport bikes (Buells and MVAs) over here.

[gemship]

My last bike was a 05' Kawasaki zx10r, what a machine... Having said that it was in succession to a 03' z1000, 95' cbr900, and a 84' ninja 900(yes the top gun bike). All inline fours all screamers and all a little sketchy at 160 mph on the highway. I guess that's my threshold for top speed although I did enjoy a few power wheelies up to a buck ten when I was feeling fearless and drag racing. Having said that I would say the Buell is a fine hooligan bike and what a sound with robust torque that only a vtwin can deliver. I see lots of great deals for them used and if I were to enter the motorcycling hobby again it would be on my shortlist of sporty wheelie machines.

[witcombusa]

Buell was handicaped from the start with an insurmountable problem no amount of clever engineering could overcome.

The engine, courtesy of H-D. :crap:

[r_mutt]

the other problem with buell was that there was another company famous for making v-twins, ducati- and they were pure sport bikes- not some tractor engine shoehorned into a unique chassis. buell was really a niche within a niche.

still, i always held out hope that one day, harley would make a modern engine just for buell, and then a real sports bike would emerge.

[csm]

wasn't there an entry-level Buell that used a rotax or something? a thumper iirc?

[r_mutt]

yes, it was called the buell blast. it was marketed to women. fun bike i've heard, but expensive for a cheaply built low-HP single.

[maunahaole]

I think the blast uses half of a sportster engine - IIRC the BMW F650 uses the rotax single. One of the big criticisms of the blast was that the ratio spacing on the gearbox was not well thought out.

[Samster]

.

[dd74]

Rotax? Aren't those go-cart racing engines?

I told a friend at work that Buell went out of business, and he almost fell out of his chair. He immediately went online Buell shopping...

[r_mutt]

rotax makes all sorts of engines- 2 stroke, 4 stroke, singles, twins, helicopter engines, go-kart, etc...

it's an austrian company and they have made engines for many manufacturers including aprilia, bmw, ktm, and husqvarna.

[thwart]

Buell closing...

Maybe not.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/chances-to-save-buell-motorcycles-emerge-ar80525.html

[marle]

I had the privilege to do some work with Buell/Harley Davidson and I find it very sad indeed. I hope that Mr. Buell is allowed to carry on in someway but I bet all the IP is owned by HD.

Here are some galleries of the work I did.

http://www.photomob.com/work_buell_2006.html

http://www.photomob.com/work_buell_2005.html

vjp

GLORIOUS B&W!!!!!

[William]

Buell closing...

Maybe not.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/chances-to-save-buell-motorcycles-emerge-ar80525.html


I hope this pans out.


William

[vjp]

GLORIOUS B&W!!!!!

Thank you so much, and it was captured on film not digital!

vjp