cross questions

[gt6267a]

i'm primarily a road biker, and bought a used cross bike, if planet cross, a few months back. i'm enjoying the cross bike and have had it off road in fields/parks a bit.

this weekend, a mtn bike friend brought me out to some trails. the trails were about 18 inches wide with a lot of roots and leaves. The path was mostly rolling hills with some larger climbs and descents. i felt totally out of my element and like I was about 1/2 second a way from a yard sale the whole time. I couldn't help but think of myself as a de-clawed kitten in the wilderness, desperately trying to climb a tree to get away from a Rottweiler ...

It maybe important to note, that i never did crash, i just felt like i was going to. I realize that a good bit of the problem was mental, and experience is more important then equipment, but am wondering if :

1) I should be riding larger tires. Currently, I'm running 28mm continental twister pros. I feel like I needed 40’s.
2) the extra set of brake levers I’ve seen on cross bikes will help.
3) the avid shorty 4 brakes have enough stopping power. They seem fine on the road, but off road the feel weak. Do I need to take a closer look at my setup or are there better brakes that I should be considering?
3) there comes a point at which i really should be riding a mtn bike? What is that line?
4) i should be considering flat bars instead of the moto deals.

Also, if anyone has bike handling pointers, they are welcome. I plan to head out again on the trails next weekend …

Thanks and regards,
Keith

[dirtdigger88]

cross bikes are way cool but they are not mt. bikes- trails that are a little hard on a mtb suddenly get very trickey on a cross- before you start adding bits and pieces to the bike I would go out a few more times- maybe without you mtb buddies- look at cross races- I am not calling the courses easy :no: but they are not like mtb courses- I actually like taking my buddies cross bike out on the trails that I normally ride my full suspension bike on- the little rocks and roots that I normally blast over with out thinking- suddenly almost put me on the ground- I have to think about what I am doing much much more-the entire ride just takes on a whole new meaning- its not the bike and its not the rider and its not the course- it is a combo of all three- Take two asprin and go out again- real soon!!! :D

Jason

[Spicoli]

Keith,
Dont be bugged out by your lack of confidence. I primarily race on the road but a few years ago I was doing alot of mountain and cross races. As far as Mountain biking goes I raced expert and did pretty well for myself. In my opinion the only thing in common between mountain (I am saying mountain because that sounds like the terrain your riding your cross rig in) and road are two wheels and two pedals. I am way stronger today than I was four years ago and if I had to race myself in the woods the old me would crush the current me(without a bunch of practice), fitness or not! I just dont ride in the woods any longer and the skills do go away a bit, without practice. That pretty spin you have on your road bike goes out the window for the most part in the woods. I will probably catch some heat for this but mountain bikers are very good at stomping in sqaures and for good reason. It is much harder to turn the pedals the way you would on the road when you are bouncing and kinda levitating over the saddle w/out actually sittting. People who ride trails become very good at this stomping and you will too, you just need the saddle time. The turning, braking and technical end will come around aswell with a little more practice.
If you are concerned about your fit and position go to cyclocrossworld.com and they have a little blurb in the tech (I think) dept. about what to look for as a baseline cross set up compared to your current road ride. The look on peoples face when you ask them to move over and pass them on a mountain bike trail riding a cross bike is priceless. Good luck and Your buddy is probably going to regret letting a road motor loose in the woods.
Regards,Jeff :D

[Climb01742]

jeff, great post. very informative.

[e-RICHIE]

Climb-o
you gonna convert?
xoxoxox's
e-RICHIE

[Sandy]

Climb short changed you. Better than a great post.

Sandy

[Climb01742]

Climb-o
you gonna convert?
xoxoxox's
e-RICHIE

is there a secret handshake involved?

[H.Frank Beshear]

No but if he offers tongue turn your head :beer: :bike: :banana: Sorry E-Richie It was to good to pass up Frank

[e-RICHIE]

i'll shake Climb's hand, but
my tongue belongs to DWF.

[gt6267a]

jeff and jason,

thank you.

e-richie,

i understand you are a cross fan. have you no advice for an off-road novice?

thanks and regards,
keith

[e-RICHIE]

what is the question?


me - i was at the cross worlds in 73. watched cross
domestically all through the 90s. became a full-time
cheerleader in 96. NEVER rode a cross bike or raced
a cross race until 4 years ago...
the HARDEST racing i ever did. the MOST fun i've ever
had in the sport. i'd trade in all my road years for a
few good cross years. my worst outing in 4 years of
cross racing is more rewarding than all my wins, medals,
and trips to the natz for road.

i can't explain it; i just like it.

[Climb01742]

i'll shake Climb's hand, but
my tongue belongs to DWF.

YUCK!!!!

[e-RICHIE]

oh, that's right.
you're fasting...

[Peter]

A cross bike ain't a mountain bike and while it can go most of the same places, it'll not likely be at the same speed. The line between the two is probably the size of the rocks you'll hit. Those 2" knobbies, and suspension, are for the bigger hits you'll take.

Admittedly, if you get good enough, the line between the two will be blurred. I have a friend who started "mountain biking" in the early '80s on a converted Raleigh Record road frame. He threw straight bars on it, a 37/42 Zeus crank, and whatever cross clinchers he could find. He rode it on the roughest, rockiest terrain New England could dish out with nary a problem.

To minimize problems, definitely fit the fattest, knobbiest tires your frame will handle; those 28s are twinkies. I'd say try the fatter tires first to see how much they help; you might be surprised that's all you need.

[coylifut]

Jeff's post is indeed very informative and supportive. Go try the same trail with lower tire pressure both front and rear and then re think your first experience. The difference between a few lbs per square inch is amazing. I've hit the trail before only to be all over the place. Too much air is usually the problem.

I'm with e-RITCHIE. I'm just crazy about cross. It has something to with the fact that my wife and daughters love going to the races and cheering me on. Even though cross isn't the best use of my capabilities, I love it the most.

[jerk]

cyclo-cross bikes are for cyclo-cross racing and some training (but not all) for cyclo-cross racing. mountain bikes are for pie-eating contests conducted by extreme pie-eaters. please do not confuse the two or use one for the other's purpose. the jerk needs a cyclo-cross bike even though he is pretty awful at it. the jerk tried to stay away from cross races every winter when he was in belgium and would periodically disappear to the far-east during cross season. (he did have alterior motives...which are far more interesting if the jerk leaves them unexplained and suggestivly murkey than if he tells the boring truth as to why he spent december and january in jakarta) the jerk never liked the feeling of getting a look T cleat lodged into the back of his skull although he's sure some people really like it....as an aside the jerk really did like look T cleats, they ruled for cyclocross.....he especially didn't like stupid dutch cyclo-cross races that incorporated the FREAKING BEACH into the course....but the jerk digresses.....
jerk

[coylifut]

cyclo-cross bikes are for cyclo-cross racing and some training (but not all) for cyclo-cross racing. mountain bikes are for pie-eating contests conducted by extreme pie-eaters. please do not confuse the two or use one for the other's purpose. the jerk needs a cyclo-cross bike even though he is pretty awful at it. the jerk tried to stay away from cross races every winter when he was in belgium and would periodically disappear to the far-east during cross season. (he did have alterior motives...which are far more interesting if the jerk leaves them unexplained and suggestivly murkey than if he tells the boring truth as to why he spent december and january in jakarta) the jerk never liked the feeling of getting a look T cleat lodged into the back of his skull although he's sure some people really like it....as an aside the jerk really did like look T cleats, they ruled for cyclocross.....he didn't like stupid dutch cyclo-cross races than incorporated the FREAKING BEACH into the course....but the jerk digresses.....
jerk

c'mon jerk the beach perfectly belongs in cyclocross race.

[jerk]

no it doesn't. especially if you have to maintain your own bikes or have any wish to maintain friendship with those who do.

jerk

[e-RICHIE]

maintain???

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/album?.dir=e301&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/my_photos

as long as my 25 and 27 work, i
am a happy franking camper.

good night!

[shinomaster]

I have tried to ride my stupid fuji cross bike where I can easily ride my old trek mountain bike with failure. I have wiped out on my cross bike several times in a few months doing tight U turns. For some reason if I do a U turn on my cross rig on a slippery surface the bike wants to lock up and I fall on my side. This has happened three times. Either my bike is **** or I'm a ****ty rider! It's is also way more hard to downhill on a cross bike than a mountain bike.. :crap: :crap:

[Spicoli]

Keith,
If you are going to do a mountain bike RACE, you better get a mountain bike.
But if I am reading you right you are going in the woods with some friends who mountain bike and are choosing to use your cross bike. I commend you for that and in MY OPINION it is more fun. You wont last aslong and your body will feel it a bit more but it breaks things up and lets you realize how good a bike handler you can become. The few times I go in the woods I am on my cross rig. They are not ideal for mountain bike terrain but are fast enough to get the job done well.
If I can urge you to do anything, DO NOT try and turn a cross bike into a mountain bike, It will never work out properly and odds are it will look kinda kooky. Some basics for cross compared to your road set up would be 1-2cm higher at the bars, stem 1-2cm shorter and push your saddle forward .5cm and I know you have the frame already but try and keep it the same size as your road bike. Drop your saddle about .5cm but watchout fot the stack height of your shoe pedal combo. These are basics to get started with if you just landed on earth and need an idea. READY THESE ARE THINGS I PERSONALLY DO SO right or wrong this is my way, I have top mount levers and never use them so bother if you want to, tire pressure can and should be as low as you can w/out getting that flat tire feel but the trade off will be durability ie; clinchers in rocky rooted terrain w/ low psi means your going to pinch more than normal and if you really wank something your rims might not forgive you if they can still speak. Set your bike up so you can stay in the drops 95% of the time, it will give you the most power and control ( Have you ever seen anyone decend off a mountain on the hoods ? or sprint from the tops? ) riding in the woods is like a bunch of little up and downhill sprints unless your slogging up a long climb and look way up the trail, further than you would ever think you had too and you wont even have to worry about whats directly in front of you. I keep my saddle in the exact same spot on all my bikes ( My opinion ) and the same size stem because the top tube on my cross bike is 1cm. shorter than my road. My bars are 2cm. higher on my cross bike (saddle to bar drop 11cm.road 9cm.cross) drop is very personal so keep it high so you can always go down.
It can be alot of fun but like anything with this freak sport its going to take time and work (Fun Work). Cheers,Jeff :beer:

[DfCas]

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[KMA]

Keith,

I had the same problems with the Avid brakes as well. I bought a pair of Spooky brakes (mafac style canti) with Ritchey pads (red compound) and they have plenty of stopping power off road. Other mafac style brakes are Empella, Paul neo retro, and 4ZA.

Get a pair of the top mount brake levers. These top mount brake levers put your hands in a good spot for steep descents and your weight can be placed further back.

Tires: go big (38c +) for hanging with your fellow mtb'ers. Make sure they'll fit in your frame and fork. Otherwise, use the narrower tires for racing cyclocross. Also, get used to fast dismounts and mounts.

www.cyclocrossworld.com and www.webcyclery.com are great sources for cyclocross equipment and information.

Have fun!

[theprep]

Hey Spicoli

You may be able to ride a cross bike real fast and give good advice about equipment, but you are ignoring technique.

Good technique is critical to enjoying cross. Witness your Big Brothers fine stream crossing style.

[Spicoli]

Now I know why you have tried every saddle under the sun, its that freaky ninja riding style. When did you get that one its hilarious and looks like me trying to get the dog into the bathtub!!!
Your wet footed bro, Jeff :banana: