New bike - WOW!!!

[Ti Designs]

So after much debate about what to do about a road bike for this season I gave up on Seven ever fixing my Slow-donata and pulled the trigger on a new Serotta Ti with carbon seat stays. It was a copy of the original specs for my Seven so it's a little overbuilt. OK, WAY overbuilt. It's a weird bike with a sewer pipe for a down tube and oversized tubes all around. It's wicked fast and even slopes down to the head tube to put me in a long, low, Jerk-approved position. Kelly warned me that it would react to the slightest rider input, but I wanted a bike that would carve turns at 35 MPH.

I've sold a number of Serottas as of late, the customers are all waiting for nicer weather to roll around. Not me, my frame showed up yesterday, I built it up after work (up 'til 2:00AM getting the fit and gearing just right). Just 6 hours after I finished wrapping the handlebars the bike was out and getting dirty on the streets of Cambridge.

I haven't been on anything 'cept my fixed gear in a 42x20, so I knew my legs would turn to jello if I started using the big ring. Just the same, I had to try. The first light that turned yellow within striking distance was reason enough to give it a go. This thing is a road rocket and at times an unfair advantage. The steering is so sharp that 30 miles into the first ride I wasn't thinking twice about diving between two other riders in a corner to take an inside line heading up to a town line sprint.

1 day and 70 miles into the life of my new Serotta. I've got legs of jellow and a big stupid smile on my face...

[gasman]

It sounds like WOW pretty well sums it up. Congrats!

Now post some photos please.

[jerk]

sounds great buddy....we want pictures.
jerk

[dirtdigger88]

congrats- I cant wait for the pix

Jason

[BumbleBeeDave]

Ottrott? Legend? Other?

Guess it doesn’t matter . . . at least it’s not one o’ those CAL-fees! (Now we will see if Kevan is on the forum today! ;) )

BBD

[jerk]

ti-sounds like what you have there is an honest to goodness kermesse bike!

alles voor de kermesse! voor meer kracht en explosoviteit!

jerk (slightly forward sloping top tubes are the new sloping....we're on to something here!)

[vaxn8r]

Can't wait to see the photos. Sounds great.

I'm curious what you think of the CF stays. Do they stiffen the rear end or simply mute the noise.

BTW what 's your weight? Curious with those big bad boy tubes.

Legend is on my drool list...

[93legendti]

Did you get the ST stays?

[Kevin]

Best of luck.

Kevin

[Smiley]

TiDesigns , please advise what fork you chose with what rake and trail ? Like to know HTA too . I know Kelly at serotta and their philosophy has gone to longer trails unless you asked for a faster front end . I recently road the new Nove with this modified to me front geometry and its was so steady compared to my Hors bike . Its not so much that my bike is not steady , its just this one I could take my hands off the bars anytime I wanted to .

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but you are obviously NOT Smiley! The REAL Smiley saying ANYTHING bad about his Hors? Even by indirect insinuation? Just could NOT happen!

So who are you and what have you done with our Smiley, Dammit! :no:

BBDave

[Kurt]

I am happy for you, imo there is nothing that instills confidence more that a frame that descends well, and all the serotta’s do it very well. Imo the most positive impact that I have felt was going to hand-build wheels, velocity based, the ride was never bad, but now everything is just off the charts, so smooth and predictably, esp descending the bike is just a joy to ride – maybe experiment a bit if you have the time. Post full specs and pics please!

[Ti Designs]

Dave,

This bike falls into the catagory known as "other". It's a Ti bike with carbon stays, but the tubing choise puts it outside of their normal bikes.

Smiley,

I'm running a 74 degree head angle with 4.0mm of rake. That's knocked back from a 74.5 HTA with 38mm of rake on my Seven. Oddly enough, as quick as it handles, I can still take my hands off the bars any time I want. The fork is a Reynolds Ouzo.


I'll take pictures, but I should probably clean the bike first. I now have about 100 miles on it and it's kinda dirty (I didn't even know Serottas got dirty - I've never seen one that way before). It would also be best if I took the pictures in the light (if you want to know what it looks like in the dark, close your eyes). I had to go with my tradition of red on one side, blue on the other (red bikes are fast, blue bikes are strong), so I had them put red decals on the right side and blue on the left. Same thing with the cork ribbon. jerk, you'll love my handlebars - Cinelli 65-40s.

[Smiley]

your serotta is fast but your seven designed bike would have been faster .

[jerk]

ti-
you have the jerk's favorite front end design ever....what's the rest of the design?
jerk


Dave,

This bike falls into the catagory known as "other". It's a Ti bike with carbon stays, but the tubing choise puts it outside of their normal bikes.

Smiley,

I'm running a 74 degree head angle with 4.0mm of rake. That's knocked back from a 74.5 HTA with 38mm of rake on my Seven. Oddly enough, as quick as it handles, I can still take my hands off the bars any time I want. The fork is a Reynolds Ouzo.


I'll take pictures, but I should probably clean the bike first. I now have about 100 miles on it and it's kinda dirty (I didn't even know Serottas got dirty - I've never seen one that way before). It would also be best if I took the pictures in the light (if you want to know what it looks like in the dark, close your eyes). I had to go with my tradition of red on one side, blue on the other (red bikes are fast, blue bikes are strong), so I had them put red decals on the right side and blue on the left. Same thing with the cork ribbon. jerk, you'll love my handlebars - Cinelli 65-40s.

[Ti Designs]

your serotta is fast but your seven designed bike would have been faster .

That's assuming the same structure for both bikes, the same position and all the other parameters being equal. The position has changed slightly, I'm a bit higher, the seat angle is the same as the Seven and the back end is slightly longer. It's the structure of the frame that makes all the difference. When I talked with Kelly his big concern was building a bike with both steep angles and oversized tubes, which is what I've had in the past and what I like. The Seven does have a steeper head angle and less fork rake, but when you add in the frame flex which is rounding out your steering inputs, they come out about the same. Even with the lightning fast reflexes of this bike it's way more stable than my Seven ever was. On Saturday I took the sprint for the Acton town line and both hands went up in the air before I even thought about which bike I was on (handlebars are almost optional with my Surley fixed gear), but the bike just went straight. It also tracks way better than any Seven I've tried - something I noticed about Serotta frames long ago when my shop had Legend Ti serial#0001. It was a 54L stock geometry (just about right for me), so I took it out for a test ride. Up the steepest hill in Belmont out of the saddle the bike tracked straight through potholes without loading up and bouncing off to the side. I'm guessing this has a lot to do with the tappered chainstays loading up over their full length (the force equation has an R^2 in there but the tube stiffness equation has an r^4 in there and the tube diameter doesn't start at zero) while the straight tubes everybody else uses load up mostly at the bottom bracket. In any case, it's a moot point, they fixed all the potholes in New England.

I know I promised pics, but I never get time to clean it. I have this 100 to 1 rule, I have to ride my bikes 100 hours for every hour I work on it. My fixed gear's chain stopped working about 500 miles ago... For this bike I'm thinking of changing that to 100 miles per hour work, which means I could clean the bike today if I didn't have to go to work.

[Ti Designs]

So here it is, red decals on the right, blue decals on the left (red is fast, blue is strong, I need all the help I can get...). The bars are Cinelli 65-40, I've been using them since I started racing, not gonna give 'em up now! And the bike has GPS so I always know where I am.

[Sandy]

Are you sure that you don't have two identical bikes, one with red decals and one with blue decals, and in your haste to get a bike ready to ride, you glued or welded the wrong halves together?? :)

Very original usage of decals and bar tape. Clever and neat looking. I like it.

Red State Blue State Sandy

[Roy E. Munson]

Me no likey.

[Too Tall]

Ti, that's a bahdarse bike! How are you dealing with the cinelli clamp dia.? 26.4 non?

[Ti Designs]

Ti, that's a bahdarse bike! How are you dealing with the cinelli clamp dia.? 26.4 non?

Got me a machine shop - the milling machine is the second best tool for making just about anything fit.

[Roy E. Munson]

What's in the suitcase under the seat?

[Too Tall]

WHAT a knucklehead :cool: You mean I was wasting my time with a mill bastard and a case of beer to pass the time?????

[bostondrunk]

Nice bike, but your hypothesis about tracking, chain/seatstays over potholls, etc. is kinda BS. Truth hurts.
But me likey your bike, minus the sampsonite under the seat. :p

[bostondrunk]

Me likey that liquor rack you got there too!

[Too Tall]

The man is a drunk! That's no trunk, it's a tubular tire bag. CLASS ACT.

[Roy E. Munson]

One more reason to train on clinchers, so you don't have to lug that ridiculous thing around with you.

[alembical]

Ti,
I like it alot. Looks great and good original idea on the dual colors. One question I have is what is that mounted on the front of the seat post? Is it anything or something in the background? I understand the tubbie and actually like that look, but do you also have a seat bag coming forward? Do your legs rub on that like I would assume they do? I am thinking that it may just be something in the background, but just don't know.

Great looking bike by the way. One suggestions if that is a seat bag somehow pointing forward. If you don't drink a huge amount of water (which I am assuming you don't by the single water bottle mount), do what I do and mount another water bottle cage and swap the seat bag for an extra bottle (with a wide mouth) and in return, you can keep things dry and get rid of that second seat bag (if it exists at all, which I don't understand how it could without being in the way).

Alembical

Edited to Add: that on another review of the pic, I see that it is likely the stand mount. I thought I was losing my mind trying to picture how there could be a seat bag mounted forward without it being 100% in your way. That makes more sense.

[weisan]

Ti-Master, great bike!

Being the Ti artist that you are, are you planning to add a couple of Ti ornaments to the bike? With your skills, I bet you can do ANYTHING!!!

[bostondrunk]

whats with the second white computer?

[weisan]

whats with the second white computer?

drunk-pal, it's a GPS, didn't you hear? :p

[bostondrunk]

drunk-pal, it's a GPS, didn't you hear? :p
Huh? must relax...



whisper in the wind
crunchy leaves under feat
sinking a 6'er of silver bullets

[Big Dan]

Ti, I like the fact you are going with your own set up. The 74 ht and 40 rake sounds interesting....this weekend I'm dropping a Surly steamroller fork (38 rake) on an old Lemond steel (73.5 ht)...let's see if I can keep the rubber side down... :bike:

[CarbonTi]

Nice work on that bike.

And not a pre-built wheel in sight...bless you child.

And another Avocet user. Great computer, hope the company that makes it stays around.

[weisan]

Huh? must relax...



whisper in the wind
crunchy leaves under feat
sinking a 6'er of silver bullets

Drunk-pal, try this, you might like it :D
http://www.formula303.com/images/303sp.jpg

[Ti Designs]

Nice bike, but your hypothesis about tracking, chain/seatstays over potholls, etc. is kinda BS. Truth hurts.

Which part is BS? The linear spring rate of a straight tube, the progressive spring rate of a tapered tube, the effect of spring rate on tracking, or some other part?

My bike before this was a Seven which developed a rear end stiffness problem. I happen to have access to the tubing used and I have a machine shop with all kinds of test equipment. I could probably talk Serotta into lending me a tube for testing purposes. I could also model this on my computer which will tell us about the same thing without the fun of bending titanium.

[zap]

I happen to have access to the tubing used and I have a machine shop with all kinds of test equipment. I could probably talk Serotta into lending me a tube for testing purposes. I could also model this on my computer which will tell us about the same thing without the fun of bending titanium.



Now that would be very interesting. Any classes? Could we sample other tube shapes, etc..How many lobster dinners would it take?

[Climb01742]

Which part is BS? The linear spring rate of a straight tube, the progressive spring rate of a tapered tube, the effect of spring rate on tracking, or some other part?

My bike before this was a Seven which developed a rear end stiffness problem. I happen to have access to the tubing used and I have a machine shop with all kinds of test equipment. I could probably talk Serotta into lending me a tube for testing purposes. I could also model this on my computer which will tell us about the same thing without the fun of bending titanium.

ed, you bit. you shouldn't have bit. :beer:

[The Dominatrix]

Stiffness in the rear end problem, I have just the thing for you.

[Keith A]

Ti Designs -- I see you are still using the Avocets. I have several that are still going strong. I have always liked their display and the way the button controls feel. It's too bad they came to an end.

[bostondrunk]

Which part is BS? The linear spring rate of a straight tube, the progressive spring rate of a tapered tube, the effect of spring rate on tracking, or some other part?

My bike before this was a Seven which developed a rear end stiffness problem. I happen to have access to the tubing used and I have a machine shop with all kinds of test equipment. I could probably talk Serotta into lending me a tube for testing purposes. I could also model this on my computer which will tell us about the same thing without the fun of bending titanium.


Its one thing for a machine/instrument to detect differences in tubing, its another to say your frame no longer bounces on potholes, etc.
Sorry to disagree, but.....I disagree.

[Roy E. Munson]

I have to agree with BD on this one.

[DWF]

Which part is BS? The linear spring rate of a straight tube, the progressive spring rate of a tapered tube, the effect of spring rate on tracking, or some other part?

My bike before this was a Seven which developed a rear end stiffness problem. I happen to have access to the tubing used and I have a machine shop with all kinds of test equipment. I could probably talk Serotta into lending me a tube for testing purposes. I could also model this on my computer which will tell us about the same thing without the fun of bending titanium.
I think you meant "it had a rear end stiffness problem" not "which developed a rear end stiffness problem", right? Ti doesn't go "soft" with use. As far as linear and progressive spring rates of tubing, what you're arguing is contradictory to your perceptions of the stiffness of the bike, at least as I understand what you're claiming. The issue is that all those "tubular" springs are tied together and for the same tubing with the same OD, the straight gauge will often be the stiffer of the two, i.e., a straight gauge .035 tube will be stiffer than a .035/.028 butted tube. As far as testing tubing, there's really no need, the physics & mechanical properties of materials are well understood. You can go here for a simple spreadsheet to replicate the mechanical characteristics of any round tube's butting profile, length, and material: http://www.anvilbikes.com/tubeCalc.php

Bottom line is that butted tubing is not so much about "tuning" the ride, it's about saving weight. Bananas. Smiley face. Don't hate me because I'm pretty.....

[csb]

potholes make all sorts of k_oo_l things bounce.
even suspended bikes bounce. its also the return rate
i care about.
a looooong ti post with set back certainly sucks up some
unwanted chatter.

[Ti Designs]

I think you meant "it had a rear end stiffness problem" not "which developed a rear end stiffness problem", right? Ti doesn't go "soft" with use.

Grrrrrr... Sore subject, it developed a rear end stiffness problem when I brought it back to Seven to be fixed. I would have been better off using duct tape.


I see the problem in understanding what I'm saying about bouncing or not. It has nothing to do with radial compliance - I don't think I could get a measurable amount of movement in compression or rebound there. It also has nothing to do with the tubes of the main triangle - that sewer pipe down there ain't moving. What I'm talking about is climbing a steep hill out of the saddle and chugging through a pothole and having the wheel bounce off to the side. My Serotta and my Seven have the same dimentions for the rear triangle, yet I would always have to ease off on the pedals when I went into a big pothole. I've tested out at least a dozen Serottas on the steep hill near the shop and none of them do the same. The only difference I can point to is the tapered vs. straight chainstays - I said tapered, not butted. That's what makes the difference between a linear and progressive system. While there may not be any measurable displacement in radial compliance, there sure as hell is displacement in lateral complience (listen for the rubbing front derailleur).

[bostondrunk]

Grrrrrr... Sore subject, it developed a rear end stiffness problem when I brought it back to Seven to be fixed. I would have been better off using duct tape.


I see the problem in understanding what I'm saying about bouncing or not. It has nothing to do with radial compliance - I don't think I could get a measurable amount of movement in compression or rebound there. It also has nothing to do with the tubes of the main triangle - that sewer pipe down there ain't moving. What I'm talking about is climbing a steep hill out of the saddle and chugging through a pothole and having the wheel bounce off to the side. My Serotta and my Seven have the same dimentions for the rear triangle, yet I would always have to ease off on the pedals when I went into a big pothole. I've tested out at least a dozen Serottas on the steep hill near the shop and none of them do the same. The only difference I can point to is the tapered vs. straight chainstays - I said tapered, not butted. That's what makes the difference between a linear and progressive system. While there may not be any measurable displacement in radial compliance, there sure as hell is displacement in lateral complience (listen for the rubbing front derailleur).

Yeah, I'll be the a-hole here... :D .......but I can guarandamntee you that your straight versus curved stays didn't make the difference in which direction your rear wheel bounced. Geeeeeeeeez :crap:

[Roy E. Munson]

My Serotta and my Seven have the same dimentions for the rear triangle, yet I would always have to ease off on the pedals when I went into a big pothole. I've tested out at least a dozen Serottas on the steep hill near the shop and none of them do the same.

Well, that clears it all up, for sure. I thought you were basing your observations on heresay and loose tests, but this obviously is based on accurate testing where variables were minimized to those under test :rolleyes:
This is ridiculous.

[Skrawny]

This is getting contentious.

Quick, we need a distraction!

I know:

"White Lightning is the best chain grease"

Uh...

"It's stupid to pay more than $2k for a bike!"

I know...

"CAMPY RULES, SHIMANO SUCKS!"

(that should do it)

[Roy E. Munson]

It's not contentious at all, no need for panic.............yet :argue:

[zap]

DWF, on your tubecalc webpage, what do values under E & F columns in tube strength boxes represent?

I think this is a pretty neat tool, but it would be interesting to factor in, say, oval tubing. So is it possible to enter two values for "D".

[Serotta PETE]

:beer: WINE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cycling Specific tonight!!!