Great (smaller) Touring Bike?

[mikki]

I have just started a search for a touring bike that would fit a woman, like a 50 or 51 cm.

Other than buying custom which I know would fit like a glove, does anyone have information on some good stock touring bikes that might fit? Raleigh's smallest seems to be a 53cm which is too big.

Thank you for your input!

[rnhood]

I assume you're talking true touring bikes. Bruce Gorden (http://www.bgcycles.com/loaded.html) is a tried and true source for this type bike and, offers them in many standard sizes - including very small. Its hard to talk about touring bikes without his name coming up. Lots of experience and knowledge in this venue.


If you just want a long distance ride then the Specialized Ruby is a good choice and is female specific.

[nahtnoj]

The Surly Long Haul Trucker comes complete in what appear to be pretty small sizes (from way up here in 60cm land) for around $1,000.

[Marcusaurelius]

My favourite touring bike is the older Trek 520. The new Trek 520 has the sloping top tube which may or may not work for you.

For a custom, I would probably get a Bilenky.

[sg8357]

http://www.bgcycles.com/BasicLoadedTouring.html

http://www.rivbike.com/assets/full/0000/0012/framecompJan.pdf

Stock bikes from people who specialize in bikes that need to carry some stuff.

[RABikes2]

My favourite touring bike is the older Trek 520. The new Trek 520 has the sloping top tube which may or may not work for you.
Good suggestion. The Trek 520 is a great touring bike, reliable, and dependable. Price is right and they come in a small size. (We're probably on the same size bike, Mikki.) I'd suggest at least try one out on your hunt. Have fun looking and testing!
Ritaann

[Ken Robb]

you might do well with an old rigid mtn bike like Bridgestone MB 1,2 or 3. They had relatively road-like geos with 26" wheels for low standover. Rear Rack mounts standard.

[fiamme red]

What kind of touring do you intend to do?

[goonster]

You want a bike with 26" wheels, e.g. Surly LHT, Rivendell Atlantis, Bruce Gordon, etc.

[dwightskin]

Adventure Cycling publishes a "buyer's guide" of sorts with a pretty comprehensive list:


http://www.adventurecycling.org/features/buyersguide.cfm


My advice, though is don't get a Touring bike unless you are going to do actual multi-day self-supported loaded touring. If you aren't doing that then other bikes would be better choices.

[SEABREEZE]

Check out the SALSA FARGO , just not sure how small a frame they offer.

[cmg]

if your interested in a used bike I have a serotta CSI that has eyelets on the rear, carbon F1 fork in a 50cm seat tube, 52 top tube dimension. sent you a PM. let me know and i'll forward info later today.

[Serotta_Carbon]

Before making a purchase you owe it to yourself to check out Bruce's site to see his domestically built premier line of touring bikes as well as his new import frames built to his designs and specifications.

I just took delivery of a new custom Rock & Road and broke it in riding California's Lost Coast loop and the rig performed flawlessly. His designs are well thought out and have been proved to be incredibly reliable mile after mile.

If your budget is a little tight these days he's introduced a new line of frames intended to compete with the hoards that have recently been flooding the market. Check it out...You Shurly can't go wrong with a BG touring bike!

[fourflys]

Gunnar also just announced a new touring bike...

http://gunnarbikes.com/grandtour.php

From Interbike
http://threeflys.smugmug.com/photos/661268938_8ksVp-M.jpg

[Smiley]

For my denaro's I'd just pay the custom upcharge of $500 and go to the good folks at Co-Motion. They do Touring right and fast. I know my friend Carbon Serotta knows that Bruce knows his sh*t when it comes to touring rigs but so does Dwan and company up in Eugene. Besides your not going to find a nice rig that fits your small chasis with out custom :)

[fourflys]

For my denaro's I'd just pay the custom upcharge of $500 and go to the good folks at Co-Motion. They do Touring right and fast. I know my friend Carbon Serotta knows that Bruce knows his sh*t when it comes to touring rigs but so does Dwan and company up in Eugene. Besides your not going to find a nice rig that fits your small chasis with out custom :)

Co-Motions are very nice... they're who Hampsten uses for his Aluminum frames, that says a lot right there...

[gdw]

http://www.somafab.com/sagatouring.html
Lots of sizes available - 44-62cm and reasonably priced at $500.

[John M]

Most of the large companies stock geometry in the small frame sizes is lousy. They use steep seat angles and longish top tubes in an effort to avoid toe overlap with the front wheel and the reach ends up being too long. The so-called "women's geometry" frames aren't really much better---basically just using a longer head tube in many cases. My wife is 5'4'" and has a 50cm Trek, but has to run a 60mm stem to get the reach right and that is still with a bit less saddle setback than she would like. We go that bike before we really knew what we were doing. She ends up riding her mountain bike with slick tires most of the time because she can get set up with a proper balance on the bike.

Here in Seattle, R&E cycles (Rodriguez) does a lot of business with women and 650c wheel or 26" wheel size bikes. Touring is one of their areas of expertise. They advertise 15 stock sizes and do custom geo for something like only a $200 upcharge. They have a full bike that starts out at around $1500.

There are others that have been mentioned as well. Also would recommend Luna Cycles and Sweet Pea if you decide to go the custom route. I am not sure what Georgena Terry is doing these days, but we have looked at her bikes in the past. Usually pretty pricey but she knows what she is doing and the quality is good.

[woolly]

Wow, I was going to say "Bruce Gordon BLT - if your budget allows". But his new imported models at less than $1K for frame/fork/headset/stem and the superb domestically-built racks makes it a no-brainer, IMO.

If you're on even more of a budget than that, I'd suggest the Surly LHT. But I'd still be tempted to jump the price gap & get one from the true expert. Bruce knows his touring stuff, hands down.

[Bradford]

My advice, though is don't get a Touring bike unless you are going to do actual multi-day self-supported loaded touring. If you aren't doing that then other bikes would be better choices.
I've had both road bikes and touring bikes at the same time for almost 20 years, and if I had to choose just one, I'd choose the touring bike. Unless you race or ride with a fast group, there is nothing you can do on a road bike you can't do just as well on a touring bike, but there are lots of things you can do on a touring bike that you can't do on a road bike.

If I had to have just one bike, I'd get a good touring bike with two sets of wheels, one for full touring and one for unloaded riding. Without weight, my IF Independence rides beautifully. I probably split my time evenly between the Independence and my Legend, and both are great to ride.

Advanteges of a road bike: Lighter, faster, quicker handling

Advantages of a touring bike: More comfortable, more stable (especially noticable at higher speeds), wider range of gearing, rack and rack trunk, panniers for commuting or errends, better on dirt roads, better for long days in the saddle, better for pulling trailers, better for mounting lights for commuting, better position for riding in traffic, better for fenders, better for wider tires for winter (including studded tires), and, of course, better for carrying panniers.

It's more fun to go fast on the Legend, but the touring bike is still 90-95% as fun. When you add in all the utility, it is a great bike if you can only have one.

[Peter P.]

I get the impression you haven't owned a lot of bikes nor are you interested in high end stuff either.

If so, I'd definitely recommend the Bruce Gordon BLT-X. The 26" wheels will enable the frame geometry to fit smaller riders like yourself better than a bike with larger 700c wheels.

He sells his bikes direct to consumer so a phone call to him and some sizing instructions and I'm sure he could select the appropriate size for you.

A bike like the BLT-X does more than tour. It can be a fast commuter, century rider, or everyday bike.

[mikki]

What valuable information! I will look at everything you all suggested...

I am plannig on doing not only "credit card" touring but also camping touring down the California Coast and who knows where else? I have a wonderful custom road bike now but don't think I can afford custom again (although someone mentioned that there was a custom upgrade for only $500...I will check that out). You have all been very helpful, thanks. Such a good "community" this Serotta forum.

[Bradford]

My first tour was Seattle to San Francisco...the California coast is a great ride, you can't beat it! You'll absolutely love it.

[Jawn P]

If you're going mass-produced, a Long Haul Trucker is an excellent bang for your buck. I loveeee mine.

[roguedog]

I agree with Bradford.

Plus I have to promote the bike I call "ole trusty." Purchased on here with some upgrades from folks on here. Thanks Spincoast and Frankwurst (See the new Paul touring brakes?)

Reliable and steadfast. Not going to win any races but she's taken me many miles and put up with my ... ahem... cruising speed.

Pictured here after a 2 day (HOT HOT) credit card tour of the Sacramento Delta this weekend.

[mikki]

This sure is this fun looking up all the bikes you mentioned.

Why would one want smaller tires on a touring bike? To have more clearance for panniers and racks?

[John M]

Why would one want smaller tires on a touring bike? To have more clearance for panniers and racks?

The smaller wheel size is not a touring specific issue, but rather to build a better designed bike for the shorter rider. Anyone under about 5'4" or so should consider 650c or 26" wheels. Not that a proper fitting bike can't be made for a shorter rider with 700c wheels, but the smaller wheels resolve a couple of problems such as toe overlap and limitations on seat tube angle/saddle setback. For touring, 26" wheels give more choices in wide tires. Most 650c tires are only available in 23mm width.

[Joellogicman]

The smaller wheel size is not a touring specific issue, but rather to build a better designed bike for the shorter rider. Anyone under about 5'4" or so should consider 650c or 26" wheels. Not that a proper fitting bike can't be made for a shorter rider with 700c wheels, but the smaller wheels resolve a couple of problems such as toe overlap and limitations on seat tube angle/saddle setback. For touring, 26" wheels give more choices in wide tires. Most 650c tires are only available in 23mm width.

While the 29er craze has pushed manufacturers to build better large rims, there are a great assortment of very durable 26 rims. The shorter spoke distance between hub and rim help.

I have two touring bikes. I have a Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road 700 that I use when I am on mostly road and paved trails, and an older converted hard tail mountain bike with 26 inch wheels I use for loaded dirt trails and off road when I go to Northern Michigan and Wisconsin.

[Joellogicman]

What valuable information! I will look at everything you all suggested...

I am plannig on doing not only "credit card" touring but also camping touring down the California Coast and who knows where else? I have a wonderful custom road bike now but don't think I can afford custom again (although someone mentioned that there was a custom upgrade for only $500...I will check that out). You have all been very helpful, thanks. Such a good "community" this Serotta forum.

Little late to the party, but want to join the Bruce Gordon contingent. I recently replaced my trusty '82 Trek 728 with a Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road. Bruce asked a few (but apparently more than adequate) questions about my body proportions and preferred riding, etc. The frame and stem were exactly my size. Even though the frame is relatively compact compared to the old school Trek 728, my large Ortlieb roll up panniers are very far from my heels.

The bike is stable under load. When not loaded, it is fairly sprightly, given the build. All the braze ons are wonderfully over built. The paint appears as though it will stand the test of time.

The BG designed BLT with BG rack and stem is a screaming deal. Get that bike and you will be set for many happy years of open road travel.

[fiamme red]

This is your last opportunity to get a Japanese-made Atlantis from Rivendell.

http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bicycle_models#product=50-038

[Ti Designs]

I need to swap jobs with someone here, I need something that pays better and y'all want to be in bike sales. From the original post I can't tell a damn thing, ask 10 people to defind a touring bike and you'll get 10 different answers - this thread is proof. How anyone can tell from this that you need custom is beyond me. My best advice on touring is to find a local person who really knows touring, and spend the time to really communicate what it is you want to do, or what it is that you think you want to do.

We had such a person at Wheelworks in years past - Andrew (later known as Serotta Andrew). Andrew's advantage over your average bike guy was that he's done a lot of touring, he knows what works and what tends to fail. His job would be to listen to what you want and steer you around the pitfalls. (look at the advice on this thread - does it seem like they missed a step?) This is where statistics comes into it, if you've done a couple of tours, you know a little - probably not enought to be giving advice. If you've been around the world a couple of times, you have a larger sample size and thus your advice better suited to the real world.

I'm always amazed at how many people assume setting us a touring bike is easy. There's a lot going on the bike, and it still has to act like a bike. Most bike companies have some exec spec the bikes without much thought. In the 90's IF decided to go into production with Mike's (from ANT) touring bike. Mike didn't want to make the same mistakes as all the other companies, so he made a prototype, put it together, loaded it up and went touring. On the road he would figure out what needed to change, and another prototype was born and tested. This is the sort of homework that makes tours enjoyable instead of frustrating...

[Joellogicman]

I'm always amazed at how many people assume setting us a touring bike is easy. There's a lot going on the bike, and it still has to act like a bike. Most bike companies have some exec spec the bikes without much thought. In the 90's IF decided to go into production with Mike's (from ANT) touring bike. Mike didn't want to make the same mistakes as all the other companies, so he made a prototype, put it together, loaded it up and went touring. On the road he would figure out what needed to change, and another prototype was born and tested. This is the sort of homework that makes tours enjoyable instead of frustrating...

Bruce Gordon has been making highly regarded loaded touring bikes for going on 30 years now. There has to be more than salesmanship behind a record like that.

I agree otherwise that deciding how you like to tour and what bike will fit that like best takes time. I have been taking loaded and credit card tours for more than 10 years now. I have used several different bikes. My Bruce Gordon fills the bill for loaded touring. Certainly could be labeled over kill for a weekend ride to the bed and breakfast though.

[mikki]

In our local shops there aren't many touring experts. Road bike experts yes, but that is why I addressed the forum for some information. I have taken some light credit card touring (couple of 450-600 mile trips) on my road bike but am ready to delve into loaded touring now. I wish there were folks in local shops to chat with but haven't found that to be the case. This is one of the things I like about this forum....people give their experience/opinion. I value input I have received.

[salem]

Along the lines of what Ti Designs said, my first question is: how much weight do you expect to carry? On my first tours, I ran heavy, wanting to have something for every eventuality, but as time passed, I've stripped my load down so I can cover more ground. My bike needs changed through all of this.

One personal preference (and not right for everyone), however, is true for all loads with me: I like 26" wheels (and I'm 5' 10", like long top tubes, and have short feet, so no toe overlap issue here). I have to search a little more for a narrow 1-1.25" tires (not hard, but they might not be stocked in all bike shops), but the stiffer, stronger (for a given build weight) small wheel feel good to me under the dead weight of a load.

So, how much weight do you want to carry?

[Joellogicman]

Along the lines of what Ti Designs said, my first question is: how much weight do you expect to carry? On my first tours, I ran heavy, wanting to have something for every eventuality, but as time passed, I've stripped my load down so I can cover more ground. My bike needs changed through all of this.

My experience is similar. I used to carry way too much clothes and tools. I am now down to a point where I no longer even take a tent. Bivvy sack around a good sleeping bag is fine. On the other hand, I have given up on getting decent coffee in the hinterlands, so I now pack a swell little espresso maker and coffee beans. My clients know I have a blackberry, so I have to bring it along with a solar charger if I am not going to be staying where there is power.

I think the lesson is more where do you plan to go and stay, as that will drive how much you need to take.

One personal preference (and not right for everyone), however, is true for all loads with me: I like 26" wheels (and I'm 5' 10", like long top tubes, and have short feet, so no toe overlap issue here). I have to search a little more for a narrow 1-1.25" tires (not hard, but they might not be stocked in all bike shops), but the stiffer, stronger (for a given build weight) small wheel feel good to me under the dead weight of a load.


My dedicated off road camper has 26" wheels. Very durable. I use the easy rolling Shwalbe Big Apples where the trails are better and - currently - the Fat Alberts for no trail riding.

[mikki]

Hmmm...I guess I will have to take a chance and guess at the weight but I know I will have to learn to pare down my clothes (such the female) and I will carry a tent. I saw some great panniers at Interbike (see below) that are made from juice cartons in the Phillipines. I would also appreciate a small coffee maker so will certainly plan for that.

I am 5ft. 5inches tall, 127 lbs, toe overlap is something I deal with now and is rarely a problem on my custom road bike.

Haven't considered off road riding with the touring bike but I can see that after time touring I might. I did notice at Interbike the very large tires that the Surlys can handle. You could float over boulders on those things!!

[RPS]

I saw some great panniers at Interbike (see below) that are made from juice cartons in the Phillipines.
No doubt they'd see you coming from a distance. ;)

Interesting that they'd put that much cargo capacity on a bike which appears to only have a compact rather than the more common triple. I know it's only for show display, but still a little odd. Unless compacts are starting to filter down to touring also.

[Joellogicman]

No doubt they'd see you coming from a distance. ;)

Interesting that they'd put that much cargo capacity on a bike which appears to only have a compact rather than the more common triple. I know it's only for show display, but still a little odd. Unless compacts are starting to filter down to touring also.

I still use a triple on mine: 48/38/26. Here in the Midwest rolling hills I find I am almost always in the middle when riding loaded. The 48 is too high unless I am heading down a long incline (and then I usually like to rest in any event). There may be a few inclines in far Northern Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where I drop down to the 26, but those are far and few between.

[Ray]

Interesting that they'd put that much cargo capacity on a bike which appears to only have a compact rather than the more common triple. I know it's only for show display, but still a little odd. Unless compacts are starting to filter down to touring also.
It may well be its a sub-compact. We had a discussion here a while ago about using a double with a combo like a 26-46 or 24-44 with an mtb cassette like an 11-34. As Joellogicman noted, a big ring, even a small big ring, can be all but useless on a loaded touring bike except for long descents, and there's nothing wrong with coasting and resting on those. Those who've been doing custom bikes for LOADED touring for years (like Bruce Gordon), have been spec-ing mtb rear cassettes and compact triples with gearing along the lines of 24-36-46. I did a fair amount of loaded touring for a few years and could have done just fine with a 44-24 up front.

-Ray

[fiamme red]

I did a fair amount of loaded touring for a few years and could have done just fine with a 44-24 up front.Sure, but it would be better to have a 34t middle ring between those two.

[Bradford]

To me, a compact makes no sense for touring and a compact triple only makes sense if you A) only use the bike for loaded touring or B) swap out your drive trains between loaded touring and unloaded riding.

The three arguments I hear for a compact are that you are afraid you friends will make fun of you for having a triple, weight, and Q. I don't care about the first, I don't care about a few extra grams when I'm carrying 40-60 pounds of panniers, and I'm over six feet, so I prefer the extra Q. So a compact wouldn't work for me.

I also don't like the mountain bike gearing, but I could use it if I had to. I think touring bike companies speck mountain bike gearing because it is to hard to put together a custom crank and no off-the-shelf cranks have good gearing for touring bikes. I had to go out of my way to get the right size rings for my bike, and if I had not already had the crank, it would meant buying a new one and throwing away some new rings to get it right. I wouldn't read to much into what touring bike companies send out on their bikes.

I run a 51/40/26 with at 13-34 on the back. When loaded, I almost never use the 51, and I certainly don't use it enough to say I need it. But when unloaded, I use it all the time.

This year I used my touring bike on the Copper Triangle instead of my Legend, which has a standard road triple, and was much happier. I used the 26 on the way up the big passes and the 51 on the way down. On most unloaded rides, I use the 51 and 40 most of the time, and when I drag the Chariot around town, I use the 26 and 40 most of the time.

I use my touring bike is so many different ways, the wide spread of gear options is a huge help.

[Joellogicman]

To me, a compact makes no sense for touring and a compact triple only makes sense if you A) only use the bike for loaded touring or B) swap out your drive trains between loaded touring and unloaded riding...

Although I have a triple, I fall into the A category


I use my touring bike is so many different ways, the wide spread of gear options is a huge help.

Which racks do you use on your touring bike?

The primary reason I use mine for touring only is that I like using the Tubus Tara up front. If you are not familiar with the TT, it is set up so fenders attach to the rack and the rack to the fork.

The Tara is perfect for me on tour as I prefer having weight up front down low on longer rides. Around town I use a bike with a porteur style rack and a large bag on top that is to access.

The tires and pedals that I prefer for long distance loaded riding would work, but less pleasantly for me anyway, when riding around town.

Finally, I take battery lights on tour with me for the few times I am caught on the road after dark. Around town, I ride after evening so frequently I prefer using a dynamo hub and light.

Sure, I could spend an afternoon swapping things around after touring. I like having a city bike and touring bike though. So why not?

[Bradford]

I have a nice collection of racks I've picked up over the years. Around town I have an old Blackburn on the touring bike with a rack trunk and keep the Tubus Cargo on the Tandem. When I tour, I put the Cargo on the back of the touring bike and a Tubus Tara on the front. I also have a front and rear Jandd that just sit around. I think the Jandd rear is the most functional touring rack, but the Tubus gets the job done and is a lot lighter. Some day I'll get around to selling the Jandds, but for now they are collecting dust in the garage.

Like you, I try to keep the weight up front. I took my first credit card tour last year and left the rear panniers at home and just used the two up front.

I have Frogs on my touring bike and tandem all the time, which are great for riding and I can still walk around.

I always carry a small light with me when I tour, but I've only used it a handful of times. When I started, I used to ride long days, averaging around 75 miles. These days I shoot for 50-65 miles and try to get off the road in plenty of time to cook dinner and relax. Turns out that off the bike time is as nice as the on the bike time when you are in cool places, so I try not to be on the bike past 4:00 PM.

Tires I do swap out. Fully loaded, I used 700x37. Front panniers only, I used 700x28 or 700x32. For around town, when all the weight I carry is in a trailer, I have a 25 up front and a Rolly Polly in the back, which I think is a 28. I'd like to have Jeremy down at Alchemy build me a new rear wheel soon for non-loaded riding, then I'll go 25 on both. For winter commuting, I have some studded tires also.

I like your idea of the city bike, but my negotiations with my CFO/wife have broken down on the topic of new bikes. Right now, I have a hard stop at four and she checks the garage frequently to make sure I'm not stockpiling weapons of mass riding. :crap:

[Joellogicman]

I like your idea of the city bike, but my negotiations with my CFO/wife have broken down on the topic of new bikes. Right now, I have a hard stop at four and she checks the garage frequently to make sure I'm not stockpiling weapons of mass riding. :crap:

Which (sometimes fortunately but many others not so) I do not have to consider at the moment.

[RPS]

It may well be its a sub-compact. We had a discussion here a while ago about using a double with a combo like a 26-46 or 24-44 with an mtb cassette like an 11-34. It's not; I can count at least 25 teeth on half of the big ring. ;)

And I do remember the thread on the sub-compacts. It may be a good application for that, but I'd personally stick with a triple for loaded touring -- or any touring for that matter.

I like versatility in my equipment, and even if I planned on limiting myself to credit card touring initially, I'd set the bike up so that I could do just about anything I'd want without too many modifications -- maybe a wheel/cassette change at most.

[v531xc]

I haven't seen anyone mention the Rocky Mountain Sherpa.
http://www.bikes.com/main+en+01_101+NomSousCategorie.html?CATID=2&SCATID=26
I saw a friend riding one the other day, and I'll admit I was bit a jealous. Turns out one LBS stocks them, so I want to go ride one someday soon. Anyway, there are two small sizes, 47cm and 50cm seat tubes, the 50 having a 53cm top tube. The Sherpa 30 is made out of Reynolds 853 and has Tiagra components (brifters, but those are easily sold and replaced with barcons anyway). My friend's had 105 stuff on it though, and she said its stock, so who knows - perhaps last year's model had 105.

That Gunnar does look mighty nice, though.

Also, doesn't Rocky Mountain have the best domain name?

[salem]

I could throw a real wrench in the double/triple discussion: After my last tour, which included crossing a steeper section of the Berkshires, I'm contemplating a single. 39t in front, with an 11-32 in back, with my smaller 26" wheels. That said, I do tour light, and what works for me, might not be in favor for most.

[Tobias]

I could throw a real wrench in the double/triple discussion: After my last tour, which included crossing a steeper section of the Berkshires, I'm contemplating a single. 39t in front, with an 11-32 in back, with my smaller 26" wheels. That said, I do tour light, and what works for me, might not be in favor for most.
What did you use during your latest tour that leads you to this decision, and what do you expect to gain from a single ring?

[v531xc]

I'm in favor of triples when fully loaded. I've ridden with a double and not been held down by too much gear, but when it comes to big hills and long climbs, triples really do give you that extra flexibility so you don't have to stand up and climb, which is a huge PITA (well, mostly in the back and legs) when you consider that panniers sway a lot more when you're out of the saddle.

also of note: the Soma Saga touring frame - http://store.somafab.com/sosatofr.html 700c for 56cm and up, 26 for 54 and below, probably could make 650b work on those smaller frames for some more cushion and/or faster tires