Ride Quality, Frame or Wheels?

[rockdude]

I have had this discussion with many people and always get a different answer. For me my Palee Z1 makes all my wheels feel great and my Carbonsport Lightweight Obermeyers make all my frames feel great. My experience tells me, that at the very high end of the market they both do the job. But I can't say they same for any of the other of my frames or wheels. I lean to Wheels and tires in general for adding the most to ride quality. How about you?

[1centaur]

62% wheels and 38% frame, unless the frame is creaking in which case it's 98% frame and 2% wheels.

Seriously, both are important and either can be more important if it is particularly far from average, like Topolino wheels (very comfortable) or a noodly frame. The one thing that's worth repeating is that before you decide a frame is wrong for you, consider different wheels/tires/pressure. When test riding a bike, it's best to have a sense of what the wheels/pressure might be contributing to the whole.

And before anybody else says it: gestalt.

[Louis]

When Bob Gibson throws a fastball what is more important to the quality of the pitch, his arm or his fingers? ;)

[WadePatton]

tyre pressure and position on the frame.

[Lincoln]

Define "ride quality." Are we talking about handling? Comfort? Something else? From a comfort standpoint, tire choice and pressure wins, hands down.

[rockdude]

For me ride quality means smoothness, silky feeling, no vibration, small road imperfections dissapear. I guess we should take tires out of the compairsion. A 28mm at 75psi smooths about everything out. Let focus on frames vs Wheels...

[Ray]

For me ride quality means smoothness, silky feeling, no vibration, small road imperfections dissapear. I guess we should take tires out of the compairsion. A 28mm at 75psi smooths about everything out. Let focus on frames vs Wheels...
At some point this gets kind of silly. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about clinchers, tubies, tubeless? 23s vs 25s? Veloflex vs Armadillos?

OK, even attempting to eliminate all of those highly relevant variables, it still comes down to the weakest link in the chain being the thing that cause it all to breakdown. If the frame fits right, its gonna be pretty comfortable and feel good with any set of wheels/tires, but if its a racing frame you're gonna hate the experience if you have a big heavy set of touring wheels/tires. And if its a touring frame you're gonna hate the experience with a light and skinny set of racing wheels/tires. If the frame DOESN'T fit right, no wheels are gonna fix the feelings of discomfort, bad handling, etc. And if the wheels are totally mismatched to the task at hand, a perfect frame isn't gonna feel all that perfect. So a good fit with the right set of wheels is gonna feel really damn good and a better set of wheels is gonna feel a bit better.

Fer instance, my first Spectrum is a perfect frame for me. It feels silky and perfect almost regardless, but with Ksyriums it feels a bit more harsh (but still damn good), with a set of Open Pro handbuilts it feels incredibly comfortable and silky but a bit slower to accelerate, and with a set of Shimano carbon tubeless it also feels incredibly comfortable and silky, but also feels lighter and quicker/faster. But if I put those Shimano wheels on a Jamis Aurora touring bike, its gonna feel skittish and top heavy and funky as all hell.

So, it depends.

-Ray

[wildboar]

All you have to do is ride a late 80's Cannondale crit bike and you will understand how much the frame affects ride quality.

[zap]

I can tell the difference between tubulars tires say tufo versus Conti comps pumped at 120 psi (or same tire @ 95psi but handling goes away on smoother roads) and the difference between carbon and steel frames and or forks. It's subtle and more noticable on certain surface types.

I can't say I can tell much of a ride difference between my carbon wheelsets in most situations except that my zipp wheels go a bit soft in hard turns, especially certain 40+mph turns with woopy bumps at the apex.

But the biggest difference in terms of ride other than road conditions and speed is position. Nice stretched low position does wonders to the body and roads bumps fade away wheras an upright position to me jolts the body from the sitbones through the spine.

[slowgoing]

+1 rockdude. Wheels generally, but Parlee frames are a whole different level of comfort. Same with my Look 381 which is, if anything, too cushy.

[Bob Ross]

my Parlee Z1 ... and my Carbonsport Lightweight Obermeyers

I hate you!



(j/k)

[Lincoln]

All you have to do is ride a late 80's Cannondale crit bike and you will understand how much the frame affects ride quality.

Amen.

[false_Aest]

What's more important during good sex: what you're doing or what your lover is doing.

[soulspinner]

All you have to do is ride a late 80's Cannondale crit bike and you will understand how much the frame affects ride quality.

Had one of those and raced it with Suntour Superbe. Know what you mean. The stays were nearly non moveable(ya, I stood on em at 156lbs) and the thing shook my kidneys. Put the power down though...

[malcolm]

tyre pressure and position on the frame.


There are certainly some harsh frames out there, the early c-dales are an example, but I think tire volume and pressure make more difference than frame materials or wheels assuming decent fit.

[avalonracing]

It depends on which has the better logos.

[zap]

All you have to do is ride a late 80's Cannondale crit bike and you will understand how much the frame affects ride quality.

Awesome crit bike on which I won a few races. Back then I rode tubulars pumped to 140psi (I was learning the finer details of cycling back then) so the ride was probably spot on at 120psi.

[RPS]

OK, even attempting to eliminate all of those highly relevant variables, it still comes down to the weakest link in the chain being the thing that cause it all to breakdown.
Ray, I know you did not mean the chain “weak link” analogy literally, but I’d like to borrow it in order to expand on that thought – except in 180 degree direction because I think we should view this topic from the opposite direction.

A three-link chain will always break based on the weaker of the three links, and as long as one link is much “weaker” than the other two stronger links, we can modify those two by making them slightly stronger or weaker and nothing changes materially – the chain will continue to break based on the weak link. Modifications to the other two links won’t change the chains total strength whatsoever and would therefore go unnoticed. However, I don’t think that chain logic applies to a bike (no pun intended).

In the case of a bike, one can make a strong technical case that ride smoothness is dependent to a very large degree by the “cumulative” effect of the three links (tires, wheels, frame). No one link stands alone or limits total performance, and any change to any of the three will affect the total – hence the ride quality or smoothness (to a greater or lesser degree).

In my opinion the toughest part for the average guy considering an expensive change that “should” improve ride quality is not knowing to what degree it will affect the total.

[RPS]

I have had this discussion with many people and always get a different answer.
..........snipped.........
I lean to Wheels and tires in general for adding the most to ride quality. How about you?
The way I interpret the question there can be no one correct answer because it’s equipment specific; hence I’d expect to get different opinions.

And since there are seemingly thousands of combinations that can be compared, I'd expect an answer based mostly on the riders’ more recent experiences.

I prefer to ask myself the question a little differently (sounds similar but not the same): What “can” make a bigger difference towards a smooth ride; wheels, tires, or frame? :beer:

[rockdude]

The way I interpret the question there can be no one correct answer because it’s equipment specific; hence I’d expect to get different opinions.

And since there are seemingly thousands of combinations that can be compared, I'd expect an answer based mostly on the riders’ more recent experiences.

I prefer to ask myself the question a little differently (sounds similar but not the same): What “can” make a bigger difference towards a smooth ride; wheels, tires, or frame? :beer:

Much better put, I am not a wordsmith, even though I got a journalism degree.

[johnnymossville]

Frame.

[Ray]

Ray, I know you did not mean the chain “weak link” analogy literally, but I’d like to borrow it in order to expand on that thought – except in 180 degree direction because I think we should view this topic from the opposite direction.

A three-link chain will always break based on the weaker of the three links, and as long as one link is much “weaker” than the other two stronger links, we can modify those two by making them slightly stronger or weaker and nothing changes materially – the chain will continue to break based on the weak link. Modifications to the other two links won’t change the chains total strength whatsoever and would therefore go unnoticed. However, I don’t think that chain logic applies to a bike (no pun intended).

In the case of a bike, one can make a strong technical case that ride smoothness is dependent to a very large degree by the “cumulative” effect of the three links (tires, wheels, frame). No one link stands alone or limits total performance, and any change to any of the three will affect the total – hence the ride quality or smoothness (to a greater or lesser degree).

In my opinion the toughest part for the average guy considering an expensive change that “should” improve ride quality is not knowing to what degree it will affect the total.
I think you're precisely right, but I think the analogy still holds generally. While the stronger links in the frame/component/wheels chain can make up for a weaker link to some degree (unlike on a literal chain), the weakest link can still pretty well wreck the overall mechanism if its weak enough, even if the others are really good. So if you have a great frame and great components and terrible wheels, the wheels are the weak link and an upgrade there will improve things the most. But if you have great wheels on a really bad frame (ill-fitting, way under or over built for intended application, etc), then the frame becomes the most important variable. I get what you're saying and wouldn't argue with it a bit. My analogy wasn't precisely correct, but the point it illustrates is still basically right.

I think this might another example of the difference between the way planners and engineers think, which we've discussed previously and to unintended acrimonious effect. But I mean it lightheartedly, I assure you! Both are valid and useful - although engineers tend to be far more precise!

-Ray