Bicycle vs automobile: what's next?

[mbbuell]

Well it's happened. I've had the misfortune of being in the way of a woman who was running late for a hair appointment and thought "she could make it" (by "make it" - that means turning a corner in front of me).

Obviously, she was not able and clipped the front of my wheel as I was braking and attempting to avoid the incident, sending me over the top of my handlebars head-over-heels onto the road. After bouncing and sliding, the end result; I'm out with a broken clavicle, hand, scapula, torn hamstring, road rash etc. My bike (Look 595) with 1000 miles on it is trashed - as well as the kit I was wearing.

I must add, I was wearing a Road ID, and it did in fact serve it's purpose. It spoke for me when I couldn't. If you don't ride with some sort of ID that provided emergency personnel the info they need, you need to seriously consider it.

So, has anyone else experienced the horror, and what was your experience with the insurance company paying for medical bills, bike/gear, loss of work etc?
What adventure am I in for? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

[MattTuck]

Sorry to hear! I wish you a speedy recovery!

[dd74]

Happened to me about a month ago, but not to your extent. I could still walk and ride. The woman, annoyed with Hollywood Bowl traffic, hit me, then fled the scene.

Bitch!

Anyway, I'm sorry for your misfortune. I hope you a speedy recovery.

[ThomasRZ]

Call. A. Lawyer. Before. You. Talk. To. Insurance.

I cannot emphasize that enough.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Did she render aid? Is she being difficult about admitting fault or making restitution? Were the police called, did they show up, and was she ticketed to establish fault? Has her insurance company contacted you yet? Have you contacted yours? Has hers asked you to sign anything?

In the absence of more details, all I could suggest is don't even talk to anyone from her company and certainly don't sign anything until you have contacted a lawyer locally and made sure everything is photographed and documented, including all your physical and equipment damage, and the scene of the incident. Write your account down ASAP while every detail is still fresh in your mind and draw diagrams of the scene, again to make sure you record details before the details get fuzzy. Pay special attention to recording any of her actions at the scene that might help your cause. Did she act impatient or say anything to indicate she was? Did she do anything other than render aid? Were there witnesses? Do you have their contact information and know exactly how much they saw? Do you know at this point if they would be willing to testify on your behalf?

Keep in mind that insurance companies don't make a profit by paying claims. They make a profit by finding ways to avoid paying claims.

BBD

[nahtnoj]

Call. A. Lawyer. Before. You. Talk. To. Insurance.

I cannot emphasize that enough.

+infinity

[mbbuell]

I have retained an attorney - one that is a cyclist and understands the dynamic of being a cyclist. Yes, there was a police report taken. I'm a retired detective myself, so I did actually write down, well recorded, because I'm having a very difficult time typing, the incident.

She did make a statement to me as i was lying/rolling around on the road "I'm so sorry, I thought I could make it." which means to me she saw me, but decided against waiting for 15 seconds until I cleared the intersection to turn.

My wife, who's been great has been taking pictures, documenting conversations, things I recall etc. So I think that part of it is covered with the guidance of my attorney.

My question is to how the insurance company is going to try to minimize the cost of replacing my bike etc. Has anyone had to deal with that?

And thank you all for your well wishes!

I feel badly for my bride; we were going to Italy next month for our 20th anniversary. But can't now because I can't travel.

We cyclists share a bond that those who haven't experienced the feel of the road, wind, pain and joy of riding - and the crashes of course, could not understand.

[false_Aest]

I got hit a few years ago. Insurance paid for E V E R Y T H I N G.

shoes, cloths, helmet, bike.

I think SoCalSteve had a similar experience--I won't speak for him though.

Cheaper to pay than to go to court and then have to pay.


I'll send ya good vibes!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . you'll deal with an insurance adjuster who does understand how much a high end bike is worth and how much it costs to be replace.

But don't count on it.

Most common problem I've seen friends have with situations like this is that the insurance company tries to lowball the value of the bike.

BBD

[Alan]

As others have chimed in - get an attorney who does bike cases. There are several in Southern Ca. By using an attorney I was able to clear a good chunk of cash and a new bike from a settlement.

Alan

[mbbuell]

do they take possession of the bike after they pay. The frame is toast. As is the RD (Campy Centaur), shoes (sidi ergo 1), helmet (Rudy), bibs (Rock Racing I know, I know say what you will, but the chamois is fantastic), Jersey (can't recall), handlebars got dinged, might be bent. Wheels (AC 420's)

Does her insurance company pay for the obviously damaged stuff or do they look at it and say, here's a check for a new Look 595 with Campy Centaur/Chorus/Record and AC wheels, and New Sidi shoes, helmet, bibs, etc.

How specific do they get? I know there might be some lowballing going on since it's a high end frame and they may see it as "hey, we'll pay for a new frame, but not $4000.00 for a frame." AND what if the model is not available? Like my Ergo 1's, and/or the exact model of my AC 420's. Or the Look frame that was damaged?

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much again everyone for your support, well wishes, good vibrations, thoughts and prayers. :-)

[paulrad9]

I have never been hurt in an altercation but have dealt direct with the driver's insurance carrier after a car turned in front of me
- Keep your bike as is as adjuster will probably want to cover over and inspect
- Take pictures of it
- Collect all the receipts for anything that you want to claim

The good thing about your bike is that it's a current model and insurance carrier will look at what it costs to buy a new one today and that is what they'll offer you. The rest of your equipment is the same, so ask to be reimbursed 100% for all of it.

[paulrad9]

do they take possession of the bike after they pay....How specific do they get? I know there might be some lowballing going on since it's a high end frame and they may see it as "hey, we'll pay for a new frame, but not $4000.00 for a frame." AND what if the model is not available? Like my Ergo 1's, and/or the exact model of my AC 420's. Or the Look frame that was damaged?

Any thoughts?




There is no salvage value to your bike, so I doubt they'll take possession.

I seriously doubt they'll look at each component. Their goal is to get you back to where you were prior to the accident, so claim the bike as total loss and start from there.

[2LeftCleats]

Others have given appropriate and comprehensive advice. I will simply describe my experience. I posted part of this immediately after the accident one year ago.

I was on my son's wheel crossing an intersection with the right-of-way. A truck driver failed to see us and hit David such that he struck the windshield and the bike was pinned under the wheel. The bike and apparel were a total loss. He had relatively minor injuries and recovered in a couple of weeks. Ambulance came but as a physician used to assessing injuries like this, I thought that using an expensive ambulance and hospital facilities was not a good use of resources. Took him home, dressed the wounds, documented the human and bike injuries. Then the real ordeal began. The driver's insurance company was unresponsive for a long time and our property insurer tracked it down. There was an adjuster for the injuries and one for the bike. They hemmed and hawed about the cost of the bike (approximately $4500). The procrastination continued. They offered $2500 citing 3 months' "depreciation" of a brand new bike from time of accident to settlement offer. I realized they were playing with us. It became apparent that without expensive hospital bills, we stood little chance of fair compensation. Finding an attorney to address a small material loss without bodily injury was also a challenge. The insurance company attorneys began a lengthy obstructive process, by claiming illness of their client and trying to blame the cyclists. After attorney fees, David recovered his bike loss, but nothing for injuries or time lost from school. From accident to depositing the insurance money: about 11 months.

Hopefully your experience does vary from this. The very good news is that there was no serious injury. The bad news is the lesson I've learned: take the ambulance and lawyer-up early. Not a huge cost to society as an isolated event, but multiplied many times, this is one of the forces driving health care costs for all of us.

[C5 Snowboarder]

mb sorry for your mishap --- Glad you are alive...

If it is any help it could be worse... see below.

[Ozz]

Replacing the bike is going to be the least of their concerns, or expenses...I am sure your attorney will guide you thru this, but $10,000 for a new bike is nothing compared to your medical bills and ongoing physical therapy as a result of your injuries.

And don't forget the mental trauma and suffering you have endured as a result...

Did she get ticketed for any traffic violations?

With a good attorney, you will be just fine.....

Let us know how it turns out.

:beer:

[Dekonick]

I had the same thing happen to me ~20 years ago. I was stupid and didn't know better (just had road rash - nothing more) I ended up paying for my bike myself. At the time, my moral beliefs were such that I was extremely opposed to lawsuits and therefore just treated it as a no fault accident.

In your case, you are looking at substantial medical expenses and (probably) extensive rehab.

Best of luck.

[djg21]

Well it's happened. I've had the misfortune of being in the way of a woman who was running late for a hair appointment and thought "she could make it" (by "make it" - that means turning a corner in front of me).

Obviously, she was not able and clipped the front of my wheel as I was braking and attempting to avoid the incident, sending me over the top of my handlebars head-over-heels onto the road. After bouncing and sliding, the end result; I'm out with a broken clavicle, hand, scapula, torn hamstring, road rash etc. My bike (Look 595) with 1000 miles on it is trashed - as well as the kit I was wearing.

I must add, I was wearing a Road ID, and it did in fact serve it's purpose. It spoke for me when I couldn't. If you don't ride with some sort of ID that provided emergency personnel the info they need, you need to seriously consider it.

So, has anyone else experienced the horror, and what was your experience with the insurance company paying for medical bills, bike/gear, loss of work etc?
What adventure am I in for? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

Retain an attorney! Do not personally engage in discussions with the driver or her insurer. Do not agree to any settlement. Keep seeing your doctors. The driver's no-fault insurance should cover your medicals, lost wages, and bike-related expenses. You also may be entitled to a sum for pain and suffering stemming from your injuries.

To the extent you have auto insurance, you will have some amount of supplemental uninsured/underinsured motorist ("SUM") coverage that will pay anything above and beyond the driver's insurance limits, to the extent it may be necessary. The attorney you hire will help you deal with the insurance companies. You do not want to do this yourself!

Yes. I too was a hood ornament: hit head on by a senior citizen with very little insurance and no property! I was in intensive care for a few weeks, and in and out of a hospital for a few months. The driver's insurance policy was limited to $50K, and my first day in the hospital cost $90K. My auto insurer -- Amica -- was absolutely awesome and came through without question.

Again, do not think about trying to deal with the insurers yourself!

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/medium/Accident_Scene.jpg
http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=13496&cat=500&ppuser=167250

[Peter P.]

I've been hit three times; does that qualify me as an expert?!

My experience has run the gamut from paying without question to depreciating the bike, to insurance adjusters asking sarcastic questions like, "Do you always ride at night?'

Your best reference right now is a copy of Bob Mionske's book, Bicycling and the Law. It has a comprehensive section of accidents and dealing with insurance companies. Every cyclist should have a copy.

If you can, find a lawyer that's also a cyclist. Ask around at local bike shops. He'll understand your situation better and you'll have more empathy. The initial consultation is usually free, and they'll give you sound advice.

If all you want is your bills paid and the bike repaired/replaced with NO depreciation, you can advise the adjuster of your wishes and I think you'll be okay. Be wary of obstinate adjusters and never agree to a settlement over the phone-tell them you need time to think about any settlement, then bounce the arrangement off a couple trusted people.

And DON'T cash any checks they send you until you see a check for the amount you agreed to. Cashing any check is considered a release from further payment.

Some insurance companies will split the claim up among two adjusters; one for medical and the other for property damage/pain and suffering. Be wary of this tactic as well.

[nahtnoj]

Yes. I too was a hood ornament: hit head on by a senior citizen with very little insurance and no property!

Good Lord, I'm glad you are around to type this!

But really, the car in the picture is a Mercury Grand Marquis with one of those fake leather roofs. There was no need to point out the age of the person who hit you...

:rolleyes:

[djg21]

Good Lord, I'm glad you are around to type this!

But really, the car in the picture is a Mercury Grand Marquis with one of those fake leather roofs. There was no need to point out the age of the person who hit you...

:rolleyes:


Note the "Disabled WWII Veteran" license plate.

I'm appreciative of the service and all, but I really wonder how many WWII vets -- disabled or not -- should be driving?

[jblande]

That is a frightening 'scene of the crime' photo DJG21. I'm sorry to hear of all these unfortunately incidents. Ride safe!!!

[Rhody]

Not quite three times, but I was a hood ornament twice. First time I was able to walk away, not so lucky on the second. Three days in the hospital and months in a wheel chair (crushed tib/fib with an external fixator). Insurance paid for most everything (either my company or the drivers). The funny thing is the insurance company insisted on collecting the bike. My LBS at the time, who was fantastic on getting quotes for full replacement, saw this flatbed pull up one day, they were from the insurance company and they asked for the bike which they strapped down and then drove away.

Get well.

[Dave]

Allstate wanted all of my damaged components that they paid to replace, which is really stupid, since bent rims and broken saddles have no resale value.

In my last car/bike accident, Allstate quickly paid me over $5,000 to replace my frame, bars, shifters, stem, shoes, helmet and wheels. I asked if I could keep the frame, since LOOK would give a $1000 off a new frame if I sent them the wrecked (but only scratched) frame. I was told NO - this would be insurance fraud.

I was offered only $1000 for pain and suffering since all I got was some cuts and bruises, with no medical bills. I told them that I got over $5,000 in pain and suffering compensation from my previous wreck, 4 years ago and I'd consult with my attorney before making a decision.

About 2 weeks later, Allstate called and said I could keep all the damaged parts if I took the $1,000 for pain and suffering. I chose to do that and put the bike back together for $800. I came out over $5200 ahead.

[Joellogicman]

My question is to how the insurance company is going to try to minimize the cost of replacing my bike etc. Has anyone had to deal with that?

I had a real good experience with Sentinal Insurance out of Fond du Lac Wisconsin.

About a month ago I stopped on a Saturday evening at a crowded Chicago neighborhood coffee shop. I was sitting outside about 5 feet from my locked custom Retrotec when a Class 7 truck - far too big for the area - backed over the sidewalk and into my bike, destroying it.

The plumber driving the truck did not want anything to do with me, but he had little choice as a number of other local cyclist blocked his way out. He gave me his card, I called his boss who got me in touch with his insurance carrier.

After an initial, '$4,500.00 for a bike!' the adjustor was pretty cool. Inglis and my LBS got me breakdown on the damage and replacement cost. I wound up giving the carrier an adjustment for the parts I could salvage and he paid full damages otherwise. All in all, I was as satisfied as possible, given I lost a custom after having it all of 8 months.

Good to hear you are coming around. Hope the woman's insurer comes through for you.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I had never seen this photo from your accident scene. You make a huge dent, son! :eek:

BBD

[djg21]

I had never seen this photo from your accident scene. You make a huge dent, son! :eek:

BBD

Dave:

I'd like to think that "I WON!" I did, after all, total the car. :D

Here's the close-up.

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/medium/Windshield1.JPG

[mbbuell]

Wow! I'm overwhelmed by the responses, and appreciate it very much. I'll definitely keep you updated on the developments in the hope that if this happens to someone else, (heaven forbid) they'll have a frame of reference. I have been reading as much as I can about bicyclist rights. While there has been favorable change, I think there is more to be done.

I did visit my LBS where I purchased my bike and they said they're very familiar with the process. So I'll be sitting down and itemizing the cost of my equipment, front to back, top to bottom, AND my clothing to present to the adjuster via my attorney. The medical bills are accumulating quickly - which I'm sure will be substantial - not to mention the follow on rehab.

I'm happy that those who did respond with stories of their accidents are able to share it!

Thanks again for your well wishes.

[mbbuell]

Hi All,
Just thought I'd give you an update on my current situation.
First the medical:
Clavicle: Healing nicely thank you. No surgery needed, although it was of a concern since the break occurred on the outer portion where it connects to the AC of the shoulder.
Scapula: Also healing nicely. No problems seen.
Left hand: Same as above. Cast still on it, and is challenging when I try to type. Also stinky from the sweat!
Left hamstring: Able to use and pedal on my trainer.
Being back on the trainer has been both mentally and physically therauputic although it does cause my cast to stink. The cast comes off (hopefully) next Monday.
Legal:
I have an attorney who is a former competitive triathlete. I can't tell you how much this is helped me, if for nothing else the support. The police report also included statements of the person who caused the accident, where she admitted that she did in fact see me but "thought she could make it". The Deputy Sheriff said the fault was in fact hers.
Property:
Got an estimate from my LBS. With bike, and personal items, shoes, helmet, bibs, jersey, comes to over $11K.
Other Damages:
Still receiving medical treatment, but the medical bills have started to "pour" in. Plus there is further treatment to be had, like physical therapy.
Still have to determine the loss of income, pain/suffering.

My lovely wife has her own definition of "pain and suffering". She said I'm a pain and she is suffering because of it!

From the personal side, I have found myself going through times of depression, anger, frustration, even guilt about the whole incident. But I can say since getting back on the trainer and spinning, it has lifted my spirits. Even sometimes spinning angry.

So that's the update. Looks like I'll get my bike/personal property replaced first and then the medical other damages will follow.

To be continued...

[Peter P.]

Thanks for the update. We still need to hear the Epilogue. Let us know when you're settled and back on the bike.

[SEABREEZE]

Wishing you a speedy recovery !!!

[vqdriver]

i'm interested to see if the insurance co. will accept the medical bills directly. otherwise, you'll be dealing with the paperwork legacy of this accident for months on end.

[djg21]

Well it's happened. I've had the misfortune of being in the way of a woman who was running late for a hair appointment and thought "she could make it" (by "make it" - that means turning a corner in front of me).

Obviously, she was not able and clipped the front of my wheel as I was braking and attempting to avoid the incident, sending me over the top of my handlebars head-over-heels onto the road. After bouncing and sliding, the end result; I'm out with a broken clavicle, hand, scapula, torn hamstring, road rash etc. My bike (Look 595) with 1000 miles on it is trashed - as well as the kit I was wearing.

I must add, I was wearing a Road ID, and it did in fact serve it's purpose. It spoke for me when I couldn't. If you don't ride with some sort of ID that provided emergency personnel the info they need, you need to seriously consider it.

So, has anyone else experienced the horror, and what was your experience with the insurance company paying for medical bills, bike/gear, loss of work etc?
What adventure am I in for? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks


Don't say anything to anyone! Don't talk with the driver's insurer or the driver. Presume that anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law, just like in Law & Order!

Hire a good personal injury lawyer to help you navigate through the no-fault insurance policy and negotiate with the insurer. Ask around your area for referrals. Don't rely on the the pond scum who advertise on TV or on the back of buses. There are many good personal injury lawyers. You just need to look.

If the insurer calls, refer it to your attorney.

You should be reimbursed for all of your out-of-pocket expenses such as your bike, bicycle clothing, and any lost wages. You'll also probably get a sum for pain and suffering and your medicals should be covered. The driver's insurer should cover to her liability limits. If her coverage is weak, your driver's insurance, and specifically, your supplemental uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage ("SUM") should kick in to cover the deficit.

Good luck. Glad your still with us!

[vqdriver]

don't forget to claim any actual losses from the missed vacation such as rescheduling/cancellation fees.

[Tom]

Hope you're healing well.

I can't offer any advice except that you should never sign anything that boxes you in later. I got the clue when my doctor filled out the insurance forms and where it asked if there would be any further care needed he wrote "Unknown". Nothing I wound up with required further attention at the moment but he wasn't about to write down that I was just fine. I'm sure he was covering his own interests but he was covering mine at the same time.

Every time the driver's insurance company called me they asked how I was before they asked anything else.

I must say, Amica (mine) and State Farm (theirs) were really good. State Farm, no questions asked, coughed up for a new set of Neutrons when only the back one was trashed because I told them you can't find just a rear wheel, which was true. I am sure they just wanted me to stay in a good mood and not try and sue the bonehead that whacked me one.

She did end up pleading guilty to a 3rd degree misdemeanor and a traffic violation for leaving the scene. Don't mess with the Nisky cops, they're good at making a case out of practically nothing. They started with a hit and run driver, a victim that couldn't remember anything and an anonymous tip. Not bad.