Have Riding Positions Changed?

[Fivethumbs]

I'm sure this has been discussed before to some extent because I'm pretty sure I can remember reading some conflicting comments regarding possible changes over the years in the general riding position on a road racing bike.

I saw this photo and immediately realized the handlebars look like they are about an inch below the saddle. And this is for an old ad for a racing bicycle. Nowadays ads for racing bikes show mega handlebar drop. I think humans are still made the same way as they used to be, so what happened?

[Louis]

Ignoring any PED-induced improvements, I wonder how today's racers would compare to yesterdays. Presumably the lower bars result primarily in a more aerodynamic riding position. That suggests better times for portions of races where drag is important. ITTs, a solo breakaway, etc. Are today's guys any better at that? Tough to say. In track and field events it's easy enough to follow the decreases in times. Absolute cycling achievement is more difficult to measure across time. Maybe the 1-hr record, but that's such a specialized thing, which wacky positions.

All I can say for sure is that that picture makes me feel a lot better about the saddle-to-bar drop on my bikes, quill stem and all.

[android]

That seat is too low even for old school. Seat post height was usually at least a fist and a half.

[bigbill]

If that's his bike, he is squashed on it. Look at the saddle height versus his waist taking into account leg extension.

I think the bike industry went to far with saddle to bar drop which was exacerbated by sloping top tubes. I like the newer models with taller headtubes. It's like they were actually made for normal humans.

[caleb]

Merckx on the hoods:

http://www.richardpettinger.com/cycling/eddy_merckx/merckx.jpg

Looks like a pretty flat back to me, much the same as today's pros. What's changed is (a) the bar/lever interface now places the rider's hands higher, now necessitating lower handlebar height to achieve the same position the old levers used to provide, and (b) the average rider is now in worse shape (and "inflexible" due to biomass), creating a market demand for high handlebars.

So... nothing has changed, and yet everything has.

[frenk]

Old bikes had -17 stems, deeper bars and the brake hoods were lower, so in the end I think positions have not changed much.
That picture could be misleading, just look at how many ads on today's magazines show totally f'd up setups.

[womancyclist]

Another point to add is the position the brake levers back then were lower on handle bars.

[rugbysecondrow]

Old bikes had -17 stems, deeper bars and the brake hoods were lower, so in the end I think positions have not changed much.
That picture could be misleading, just look at how many ads on today's magazines show totally f'd up setups.

I think the difference in drop makes the make look sexier or more appealing to the masses, even though it is unnecesary for must of us recreational riders. Take a look at this from Trek's website : http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/1_series/11/

I am no bike fitter nor would I ever claim to have anything more than anectdotal knowledge, but this seems like too much for the type of rider who would be buying an entry level bike. Just unnecesary. I imagine that is also why many riders don't stay on the road, just a poor setup from the get go that doesn't suit their actual riding style.

[frenk]

Another thing to consider is that sloping top tubes make the drop appear much larger than what it actually is.
Look at that Trek for instance, use a window (I mean another application running on your computer :D ) to draw a horizontal line at the bar top level.
Surprise! The drop isn't that large as it seemed!

[sg8357]

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/520/520/

Even with the slope figured in, that is a fair amount of drop. :)

Old bikes are designed for old races, more unpaved roads and longer stages.
Bars had more drop too and old hoods aren't very comfy. I tend to ride
behind the hoods on my Bates, Bailey pattern bars and GB arret levers.
The braking from the hoods is how you say ?, exciting ?, barely there ?

[e-RICHIE]

I saw this photo and immediately realized the handlebars look like they are about an inch below the saddle. And this is for an old ad for a racing bicycle. Nowadays ads for racing bikes show mega handlebar drop. I think humans are still made the same way as they used to be, so what happened?


heh atmo?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2382963205_3f699e7d44.jpg

[nahtnoj]

heh atmo?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2382963205_3f699e7d44.jpg

Funny, my first thought when I saw that pic is "I bet that is what Richard Sachs looked like in 1988"...

[Richard]

As someone who was riding and racing in pre STI days and continues to do so now, my position evolved because of the introduction of the STI system. In the past, I set up my bike to allow a convenient and easy reach to the DT shifters. This made the drops a more "normal" position. As a result of the STI, the reach to shift was eliminated and the tops/hoods are the more "normal" position with the drops reserved for more aggressive riding. Hence a greater offset, but not so radically different body position.

[eddief]

your saddle is too short.

[Fivethumbs]

Apparently I can get a proper fitting frame in 10 weeks!

[Peter P.]

That photo is not a fair representation of racing cyclists' position of the era because it's and advertisement and there's no accounting for the accuracy of the bike setup. A better representation would have been racing photos.

Yes; I think handlebars have gotten lower in the past couple decades. The advent of threadless steerers limited handlebar height adjustment versus quill stems. Then comes along this love affair with riding the frame with no spacers under the stem as if that was the defacto correct handlebar height. Many riders claimed to do this to make the bike stiffer in the front end.

I don't believe integrated shifters raised the hand position relative to older styles; threadless stems with rise in them appeared about the same time to address the lack of height adjustment.

I feel headtubes should be taller to at least provide a position equivalent to quill stems, though I'm by no means in the Rivendell camp.

[dd74]

I lowered my handlebars to as low as they could go. I barely notice a difference. It does look more cool, though. And the headset has suddenly started to creak. :rolleyes:

[MattTuck]

Was installing head sets really hard back then? Seems like an odd question for a frame builder today... do you install headsets?