Pez Review the Meivici

[bocarider]

I did not see a posting about this, so here is a link to the Pez review of this bike:

http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7448&status=True&catname=Latest%20News

The author posts on here occasionally (and weightweenies) and is a great resource on gear.

It is an extraordinary review in that it goes into the manufacturing process in tremendous detail. Great writing Charles.

[Charles M]

and pffff. The site goes down... :D (should go right back up) Funny but when I tried loading all the pics the first couple of times the site thought I was attacking it and killed my link and IP! I had to load em a couple at a time.



That was the most fun I've had on a story... The hardest part was to cut it down to size. There's too much cool stuff and I could have posted 2-3-4 pics for every one I would up using. It's hard to realize you're a geek and come to know that not everythink you think is cool is actually cool to others (or that they even agree with it).

Still really nice bike and it was fun putting all the parts togther (till payment time came).

[Nathanrtaylor]

great review.

Amazing bike.

[MattTuck]

awesome.

Wish I could afford one. I'm saving up for a CDA.


I love the colors/design. Is the color white or ice? a few of the pictures make it look white, others make it look like "ice"

[Pete Serotta]

My son in law has one and it is a wonderful ride - and he kick my ass every time we ride :bike:


awesome.

Wish I could afford one. I'm saving up for a CDA.


I love the colors/design. Is the color white or ice? a few of the pictures make it look white, others make it look like "ice"

[Smiley]

Gets a shout out, FREE pub baby :banana:

[false_Aest]

Wasn't that article/review posted to Pez a while ago?

[rounder]

Great writeup, Pez.

[Charles M]

Color is White Gold. It's pearl white with just a little "move" to it. Part of the trouble with blue skies and sun is the reflection of blue... I wish I were better at taking pictures...



Wasn't that article/review posted to Pez a while ago?

nope.

[Onno]

That first picture of the bike is a knock-out. Hard-core bike porn! My new screen-saver!! :banana: :banana:

[MattTuck]

That first picture of the bike is a knock-out. Hard-core bike porn! My new screen-saver!! :banana: :banana:

Soft-core actually.


hardcore would be:

knock knock.

I'm the frame builder.... someone said you needed me to insert some new tubes into those lugs.... are you sure the lugs are big enough?

bomp chicka bowow....


this thread is headed into dangerous territory.

[old fat man]

that's a nice review and good insight into the serotta process.

unfortunately, every time i read a pez article, despite the good content i am turned off by the spelling and grammar errors. i think that's why i don't go to your site on a regular basis anymore.

[Derailer]

Great review that's missing only a guide to pronouncing Meivici.

[Charles M]

Fark...

Done! (in two seconds...)

As for spulling and gramier, I agree.

[1centaur]

The secret code word for pez is "suit" which he always spells with an e.

[jlwdm]

Charles:

Great article. I love reading your equipment reviews. Your builds might be a little bold for me, but I think it is different when you have a couple of bikes like I do versus the constant new bikes you have.

I was glad to get fit and connected to Serotta in Scottsdale.

I can live with a few spelling and grammar errors to get great content. It is only a bike review.

I especially enjoyed all of your information on the Serotta process and quality.

Keep the articles coming.

Jeff

[RPS]

Nice art......and review. I can't even imagine how much work it would take to keep that bike looking nice if ridden normally.

By the way, the review of the EE Brakes was quite interesting also.

[mpetry]

great story and magnificent bike. Up till now I'd been skeptical of the Meivici, but I think this article has changed my view. I think I'd go for a more laid-back paint scheme, maybe just clear with red decals.

I gotta say, my ottrott continues to be the best bike I've ever owned and it's hard to imagine how anything would top it. It would be great to try a Meivici.

thanks Pez for this great write up.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

[Charles M]

The Ottrot is so nice that I would say it might just depend on the year model and if there are a few things you might want different... I think the Meivici is a little stiffer in the drive train as well as a smoother ride than my Ot ST and it's lighter by feel and weight as well.

I think composite tech is better at Serotta now and that a new Ottrot would probably also be better in most measures than the Ottrot I had from 04-05. What a nice problem to have, thinking about upgrading from where you're at... :)

[MattTuck]

Not sure if that is a typical decal or paint option on the rear of the seat tube, but that is a nice touch. Gives people that you pass (or that pass you) a chance to see the name...


Also, in my opinion, the serotta logo doesn't look particularly good on the seat tube. On the downtube, it looks very natural (all the letters angled in the right direction) On the seat tube, it looks weird, not really sure if you should have it going up or down.


I like the way you've done it in the pictures!

[endosch2]

This is a great review - very informative. What is impressive is the clearly substantial investment Serotta has made to stay on the leading edge.

The most important decision a business makes is where to invest. Looking at all of the equipment and the people who run it only shows where the focus of the company is. I have always thought my Serotta was better alligned and more stable than any other bike I have ever had and now I can see why. I just want an HSG Carbon now.

[54ny77]

Gorgeous bike!

[gemship]

This is a great review - very informative. What is impressive is the clearly substantial investment Serotta has made to stay on the leading edge.

The most important decision a business makes is where to invest. Looking at all of the equipment and the people who run it only shows where the focus of the company is. I have always thought my Serotta was better alligned and more stable than any other bike I have ever had and now I can see why. I just want an HSG Carbon now.


Interesting, please don't anyone take this as an attack against Serotta because it's just a observation of mine based on the Pez photo gallery, my experience with cnc milling centers and of course quoting this post. I noticed some a few pics of the Haas brand milling machines at the Serotta factory and I must say I'm sure they do the work well for Serotta and maybe even hold tight tolerances but I can assure you all that within the machining world Haas machines are nothing special. They're affordable, light duty, Made in USA and in a sense somewhat cheap. In fact to make an analogy they're sort of the Trek or Giant of milling machines. Just Say'in

[Brian Smith]

Interesting, please don't anyone take this as an attack against Serotta because it's just a observation of mine based on the Pez photo gallery, my experience with cnc milling centers and of course quoting this post. I noticed some a few pics of the Haas brand milling machines at the Serotta factory and I must say I'm sure they do the work well for Serotta and maybe even hold tight tolerances but I can assure you all that within the machining world Haas machines are nothing special. They're affordable, light duty, Made in USA and in a sense somewhat cheap. In fact to make an analogy they're sort of the Trek or Giant of milling machines. Just Say'in

gemship-

I think I understand what you mean about Haas machines compared to the variety of what else is available. For the money, if the Haas machines do what you need them to do, they seem very good to me. It doesn't require anything abnormally exceptional in a CNC machining center to make the small parts that add up to a bicycle frame and fork. As the person directing the machines and operators, I know that the opportunities for improvement lie more in the way that the machines are used than within the machines themselves, and although there are a few cases in which we could wish for more machine, we struggle more with ourselves than we do with the machines. We occasionally have issues and the support and service techs are not always available or superb, but we have thereby acquired greater insight into the machines in order to create workarounds and improve processes to avoid downtime. I can honestly say that compared to outsourcing parts to shops with supposedly more capable machinery, we get better and more affordable parts by doing them in house on Haas machines. Perhaps the importance is not as much on the tool as on how it is used. We are also gifted with operators who care enough about what they are making to rise to the occasion of making it despite the challenges. I think that is the special part that impresses people, more than the equipment itself. That said, compared to what some other frame manufacturers use, what we have for equipment is quite impressive.

[Charles M]

Interesting, please don't anyone take this as an attack against Serotta because it's just a observation of mine based on the Pez photo gallery, my experience with cnc milling centers and of course quoting this post. I noticed some a few pics of the Haas brand milling machines at the Serotta factory and I must say I'm sure they do the work well for Serotta and maybe even hold tight tolerances but I can assure you all that within the machining world Haas machines are nothing special. They're affordable, light duty, Made in USA and in a sense somewhat cheap. In fact to make an analogy they're sort of the Trek or Giant of milling machines. Just Say'in



Interesting point.


Trek are making some of the best production stock available period. The detail is fantastic.

I just got back from Madison and Waterloo and honestly I would have a new Madone before all but VERY few other production bikes available right now. I'm flying back there on my own dime (as I did going to Serotta) to do another project.





That said, and to add to the above post, what Serotta are doing pre and post machine is also part of the mix and something that I could frankly have done a better job mentioning and showing. I simply ran out of space. Hell I could have done an article on SICI by its self and it hardly landed a couple paragraphs in the story...

In fact, this article is .40 of what I produced as a draft and I could have run any of the 377 pictures I took to add to the mix, but for lack of more delicate verbiage, I gotta cut crap to fit it into a reasonable size...

I think machining and the gear is all relative. I've seen the process for biomed tooling, ultra high end watch making, high end weapons making, aerospace, medical, defense and computing prototypes used to be my income... they all do things at the high end that are not done at the low end and they all have equipement both more and less costly than what Serotta do.

But then everything is relative. What Serotta are doing relative to frame building is very good.

[Kirk Pacenti]

That's one sweet looking bike. But for some reason when I look at those pictures it makes me want to run out and buy a Nudie suit (http://www.nudiesrodeotailor.com/) . :D

Cheers,

KP

[Climb01742]

gemship-

I think I understand what you mean about Haas machines compared to the variety of what else is available. For the money, if the Haas machines do what you need them to do, they seem very good to me. It doesn't require anything abnormally exceptional in a CNC machining center to make the small parts that add up to a bicycle frame and fork. As the person directing the machines and operators, I know that the opportunities for improvement lie more in the way that the machines are used than within the machines themselves, and although there are a few cases in which we could wish for more machine, we struggle more with ourselves than we do with the machines. We occasionally have issues and the support and service techs are not always available or superb, but we have thereby acquired greater insight into the machines in order to create workarounds and improve processes to avoid downtime. I can honestly say that compared to outsourcing parts to shops with supposedly more capable machinery, we get better and more affordable parts by doing them in house on Haas machines. Perhaps the importance is not as much on the tool as on how it is used. We are also gifted with operators who care enough about what they are making to rise to the occasion of making it despite the challenges. I think that is the special part that impresses people, more than the equipment itself. That said, compared to what some other frame manufacturers use, what we have for equipment is quite impressive.

the honesty of this reply, the openness to discuss the issue, the philosophy that its the man not the machine, and the dedication to get it right whatever the challenges...in a nutshell (and i ain't calling brian a nut or a shell ;) ) this is what gives one hope that despite the ludicrous prices, the soul of serotta still lives. a handful of dedicated people trying to build the best bike they can, that's extraordinary. it's too bad that more people who value that ever-more rare kind of mission can't afford or can't rationalize the price. as much as i'd love to experience what pez describes, $8k for f/f in this economy borders on the insane. sort of like writing the most beautiful symphony ever written but doing it in a register that only dogs can hear. oh to be a dog.

[gemship]

I probably should of added that it is more man than machine. I remember working with a similar HAAS milling centers in the summer of 06' and we were machining Tungsten, absolutely super tough metal. We would use carbide tooling and the endmills would last about ten pieces, mind you we were milling parts about the size of a silver dollar but had to hold a flatness tolerance of five tenths of thousandth of a inch. Now that is some seriously tight stuff to do with any milling machine. In some of the roughing cycles to get to that point the whole machine would vibrate rather noticeably . Why would it do that? well ... all machines no matter what they are vibrate some in a machining cycle but the Haas we used and what I believe their product is specifically made for are made for light duty and or the machining of softer materials. The better machines out their that come from Japan Matsuura's, Mori Seiki's the list goes on and on are like five times the value and admittedly the big difference is more metal used to make the machine more rigid and more power otherwise the controls really aren't so much more advanced. I'm sure HAAS is more than enough for Serotta's needs as Brian Smith noted a skilled and thoughtful machinist can get the job done on minimal equipment.

[endosch2]

I think my point was not a micro-critique of the engineering nuances of CNC machinery- Rather that Serotta has made a choice to keep current with the manufacturing ability to make frames out of more diverse materials rather than sit back and try to make a case for why we should still be using materials from the past.

As far as machinery goes even of the machines are mid-range, the point is that they have equipped themselves to use them, and their expiramentation with frame materials has served their customer base with more choices.

Besides, knowing a lot of carpenters - you should never judge someone by the quality of their tools.

[Climb01742]

Besides, knowing a lot of carpenters - you should never judge someone by the quality of their tools.

oh yes. shakespeare used a quill, hemingway a lead pencil and renaissance fresco artists an egg wash.

[TC Johnson]

Pez,

You said that your article was edited down considerably from your draft for space reasons. Would it be possible to see more from your original thoughts, and more of the pictures you have? Seeing even part of the process used to create the bike was fascinating, and from an enthusiasts point of view (and now as a "preowned" Meivici owner) more is better!

Many folks use the photo services to link more pictures in the Classifieds, perhaps a nice selection of the photos could be set up for all to enjoy.

Just askin'.

TC

[Serotta_Dave]

Charles just wanted to thank you for letting us build the bike for you. It was a tremendous opportunity and the team here really appreciates the kind words and great photos of the process. Mostly thou the recognition that our focus is on the bike and whether steel, carbon, ti or mixed (Ottrott) Brian, Jared, Steve, et al focus on the process of what we do and we try and build the best Serotta each time.

I am always glad when we can get people to visit. It makes my job much easier due to the passion that the guys convey to anybody on a tour.

One of our tag lines over the years has been "its the tubing dammit". It is!! But its really the team behind the tubes.

[spacemen3]

An awesome build and a great review. Thanks. :cool:

[Charles M]

Thanks Dave, I'm glad I had the chance to do it!


As for more text and photo's, I really wish I would have kept everything loaded and made an expanded version available. That's a good idea... But right now, leading into Interbike and then for the several weeks afterward, along with traveling every week though November, I just cant put it in the right format again. And half-assing the expanded version would really not be OK to do with something like this... I 'm sorry I can't get it done.

[Jack Brunk]

Thanks Dave, I'm glad I had the chance to do it!


As for more text and photo's, I really wish I would have kept everything loaded and made an expanded version available. That's a good idea... But right now, leading into Interbike and then for the several weeks afterward, along with traveling every week though November, I just cant put it in the right format again. And half-assing the expanded version would really not be OK to do with something like this... I 'm sorry I can't get it done.
Pez,

There's not many people that I agree with in the business but I respect the hell out of your thoughts. Keep fighting the good fight on the front and if you need any help let me know. Your good for us average joe's on the front line.

Jack

[TC Johnson]

Pez,

Since this has been made sticky on the forum, there would seem to be time for you to do your thang once your schedule allows. Great articles and pictures like these are always welcome, even if we need to be a little patient.

thanks again for your efforts.

TC