the jerk is back....

[jerk]

off probation. back in full force. sorry for the violation of the rules of the forum. the jerk will be on his best behaviour from now on. plus, the ego of the jerk would not allow you to be free of his witty banter and profound knowledge. thank you e-richie for putting up the bail. add it to the bill.

jerk
(thanks guys. your support meant alot.)

[mad_mark]

May the :banana: for you.

Mark.

[e-RICHIE]

the jerk is off


the **** list!!!!


hooray. i made these posters up
when i thought you were missing...

[Matt Barkley]

Welcome back bro'. It wasn't the same without your witty and clairvoyant commentary/rattle-rousing. - :beer: - Matt

[the walrus]

That is one of the most frightening photographs I have ever seen! Where did you get that image? Amazing!

[Big Dan]

Great news that Señor Jerk is back, but E that's one disturbing picture.. :eek:

[GoJavs]

Glad to have you back. This board can't afford to lose any more celebrity panelists...it would start looking like hollywood squares in here in a hurry... :crap:

[musgravecycles]

I know that I'm sounding like a broken record here, but it really just wasn't the same w/o you Jerk. Glad your back

[weisan]

So...does that mean that everyone here gets 50% off their first purchase???

With the ADA wheels, that still costs a gazillion euros, so it's not like it gonna help much....but the dugasts, maybe it will bring the price closer to something like the veloflex, which would definitely make it the best-selling product in the serotta forum.

Senor Jerk, why don't you just sign Ben up with a 80/20 split deal and save us all the misery going forward?

[dirtdigger88]

welcome back!

jason

[jerk]

So...does that mean that everyone here gets 50% off their first purchase???

With the ADA wheels, that still costs a gazillion euros, so it's not like it gonna help much....but the dugasts, maybe it will bring the price closer to something like the veloflex, which would definitely make it the best-selling product in the serotta forum.

Senor Jerk, why don't you just sign Ben up with a 80/20 split deal and save us all the misery going forward?



hey watch it! this is citizen jerk here! i have nothing for sale, trade or barter!

[BumbleBeeDave]

Why does that woman have black eyes?

I think I should call the authorities . . .

BBDave

[Keith A]

Glad to see you have returned. However, I must say that I did not view your posting as violating the rule "The forum is not: For retailers and manufacturers to advertise their products and services."

I thought you were asking our opinion of the website you had been working on. Didn't you even say that you couldn't buy anything from the website? I realize that at some point this will be a place where you can purchase cycling goods -- but this is in the future. Maybe, I'm splitting hairs, but I didn't feel like you were inviting us to your site for future business, but rather to give you feedback on the site itself.

[weisan]

hey watch it! this is citizen jerk here! i have nothing for sale, trade or barter!

Master Jerk (upgraded title now)...I give you not more than 3 posts and your tail will come exposed again. :D

Okay, Citizen Jerk, please follow these instructions to get around the system.

1) First identify your targets (esp. those with multiple bikes in their stables, or mentioned even slightly about tubulars and such...)

2) Move your mouse over to their screen names. Use the right-click to call up the drop-down menu. Pick either PM or email to solicit a sale, followed quickly by completing the sale by choice of money orders, checks, credit cards, or Paypal.

PS. The same technique can be used on eBay to end an auction early.

Did I just say that???!!!! :eek:

Edited: Sorry...it should be "left-click" to call up the drop-down menu. :D

[jerk]

Glad to see you have returned. However, I must say that I did not view your posting as violating the rule "The forum is not: For retailers and manufacturers to advertise their products and services."

I thought you were asking our opinion of the website you had been working on. Didn't you even say that you couldn't buy anything from the website? I realize that at some point this will be a place where you can purchase cycling goods -- but this is in the future. Maybe, I'm splitting hairs, but I didn't feel like you were inviting us to your site for future business, but rather to give you feedback on the site itself.


yeah, that's what the jerk thought too....but on retrospect you've gotta understand the intent of the law is really more important than the letter of the law....but then again the jerk is more of a thurgood marshall man than a clarence thomas man.....jerk screwed up.....no big deal.

[Keith A]

Which is why the "intent" of your posting was not to create revenue -- but to have some of the cyclists that you associate with review a bicycle related website.

If you would have said "check out my new website, we are open for business", then I would certainly agree that would violate the governing rules of this forum.

[coylifut]

I think it's refreshing that instead of stomping off never to be heard from again, you considered the other side of the argument and have rejoined your pals here. I'm glad you're back. I have alot of questions still un answered.

[spiderman]

i must confess...
i did peak the interest of forumites far and wide
with rave reviews of your web site
and was not banned.
i love my dugast tires
so i won't even mention anything about the ada's...
how scandalous!
:bike: :argue: :banana: :crap:

[Jeff Weir]

Hey you Jerk!

this Bud's for you....

[Chief]

the jerk is back! :banana:
the jerk is back! :banana:
Hooray the jerk is back! :banana:
the jerk is back! :banana:
the jerk is back! :banana:
.....


all lower case letters in honor of the jerk!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[cs124]

Which is why the "intent" of your posting was not to create revenue -- but to have some of the cyclists that you associate with review a bicycle related website.

Absolutely, but if you really wanted to split hairs you could say that the fairly regular rave reviews of the products in question were intended to pique interest in said products which in turn was intended to create revenue.

Be that as it may, I got no problem either way so I'll just repeat what everyone else has already said (ain't time differences a b!tch)... I reckon the value the jerk adds to the forum far outweighs any real or imagined contravention of the rules.

Welcome back jerk.

[slowgoing]

Welcome back. Probation sucks even if it's shorter than Climb's fast, although I was already starting to miss stories about ms. jerk.

Hats off to Serotta for looking beyond the rules and doing so quickly.

[Climb01742]

1) glad the good senor is back. (were you gone? :rolleyes: )

2) i'm in the minority here, but i do think the link to his site was a violation of the spirit of the anti-commercialism tenet of the forum. not a horrible violation by any means, but let's be honest...asking of comments on the site's design was a veiled invitation to return soon to buy. again, no harm was done at all, but IMO it was a violation of the spirit. as an alternative, the jerk could have said, i'm about to start selling all this cool stuff, PM me if you're curious.

3) that said, i think james' shut down post of the thread was overly harsh and ominous. a more good natured warning about playing on thin ice would have been more in keeping with the jerk's mild "crime". the shut-down post was a bit draconian in tone.

4) but now, we're once again a big happy forum. neat-o. ok, now, good senor, about those pmp cranks... :beer:

[Climb01742]

Probation sucks even if it's shorter than Climb's fast

hey, slow, YOU try not eating for three days!! :rolleyes: :) :p ;) :D

[the walrus]

Third day of fast = grumpy! :banana:

[Len J]

That is one of the most frightening photographs I have ever seen! Where did you get that image? Amazing!

Good on ya for understanding the "spirit" of the guidelines.

It's good to have you back.

Len

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . if financially associated with a bicycle retailer--in this case, himself--and therefore I would take any equipment recommendations from him with a grain of salt. For all I know he may be associated with other bicycle retailers as well, which adds to the conflict of interest.

I can think of others on the forum who are also financially associated with retailers or are themselves retailers (Bill Bove, Captain Kirk, e-richie) but the Jerk's direct reference of people to go to his web site for whatever reason goes a step farther than anyone else here.

Might not be what people want to hear. The Jerk has some strong--and probably valid--opinions. But the conflict of interest cannot be ignored.

BBDave

[Tom]

I was just about to go out and sell a couple of quarts of blood to afford some of those ridiculous $4000 ADA wheels. Thanks for setting me straight on the Jerk's motives.

I think I still will sell the blood, though. I need a half a pint of Scotch.

Heh heh.

[Bruce K]

Tom;

I'm not sure that's what the experts mean when they talk about fluid replacement.

:banana:

BK

[Climb01742]

my use of the word "draconian" in my post was perhaps, well, a bit draconian. sorry. i'll put my thesaurus down now. :rolleyes:

[BumbleBeeDave]

NM . . . BBDave

[spiderman]

was a 'sweeps week' ploy
to get a record number of hits:

1) securing serotta alyson's
position in the serotta forum hall of fame

and

2) promoting our ambitious :fight: desires
to be bigger and better than ever...

[weisan]

Come on guys, let's go easy on our brother Senor Jerk here. He has already apologized and even committed to turn away from his evil ways by donating his entire stash of Dugasts to the Serotta Boys Halfway House ie. all of us.

In my mind, Senor Jerk a.k.a *quasi-dealer* (sorry Mavic, borrow your royal title for a sec) is a very cool person, but not perfect...and that's the same for everyone that I know here. One thing is for sure, he is not the money-worshipping flying menace "Watto" in the movie Star Wars. Yikes!
http://www.alicehui.com/serotta/watto.jpg

Okay, I spoke my peace.

weisan

PS. Senor Jerk, from now on, you got to watch you back 'cos you'll be walking on thin ice. But don't worry, you are in good company 'cos your buddies here will keep you in line.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . was that anyone on the forum who is affiliated financially with any dealer should disclose such a conflict of interest. That's all . . .

For the record, I also agree with coolness of the Jerk. None of us are perfect.

BBDave

[M_A_Martin]

Hmmm...maybe that's why Smiley hasn't posted in a while...he's one of those Serotta Fit guys who sells Serotta bikes...

Hmmmmm.

so jerk,
what I really want to know is what's the saying on the orange hoodie?
I keep looking at it and since the first word is sort of folded a little...

Welcome back.

[spiderman]

none of us are perfect...
...and none of us is as dumb as
all of us...

but i've been treated well
by the jerk...
...and comes as close to perfect
as it gets! :banana:

[Too Tall]

M.A.M. Just say his name 3 times fast and see what happens :) The only thing Smiley sells is good will.

[jerk]

Hmmm...maybe that's why Smiley hasn't posted in a while...he's one of those Serotta Fit guys who sells Serotta bikes...

Hmmmmm.

so jerk,
what I really want to know is what's the saying on the orange hoodie?
I keep looking at it and since the first word is sort of folded a little...

Welcome back.


it was a stupid sweatshirt our team made when we went to do some racing one year in england. (is the jerk dating himself?) it says, "fear of a belgian planet" on it.

[pjm]

Freaky....
http://www.channelcincinnati.com/entertainment/4164832/detail.html

[Climb01742]

now that's double secret probation...

[Kevin]

Welcome Back.

Kevin

[DarkStar]

That's Canadian actor John Vernon, some of you may be aware that he passed away today.
:crap:

[spankdoggie]

As an outside observer, the moderators and owners of this forum were wrong in banning the jerk, if even temporarily...

It was wrong, and to see the jerk respond in such a classy manner speaks volumes about his character.

I have been on many forums, and moderators often will post there reasons why they banned/suspended members... :)

There is only silence here. Shoot, I own a $5500 Csi that is on the cheap end of what alot of you guys own, but when the moderator that banned the jerk remains silent... Well, you figure, he/she is guilty. :no:

It was wrong to suspend the jerk. :butt:

It is just the truth, and the only reason I say so is that I don't give a rat's damn.

Apologies if the moderator have responded, and I missed it. I don't view here often anymore after buying my Serotta Csi...

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . who is here VERY often, and who was online often during the Jerk’s “banning” I can say he wasn’t gone for more than 36 hours. I don’t count that as being “banned.” I think it is much more likely he got an e-mail that said, “Hey, dude, you violated the forum rules, so I’ve pulled your thread. Please watch it in the future.” So he thought about it--or went to work for the day--or went and did whatever people do in real life for 36 hours when they are off the forum--and then he came back.

The concept of “banning” someone from the forum is ridiculous anyway. In today’s world where there are computers with Internet connections all over the place, anyone who got “banned” from the forum could just go to the local Internet cafe, open another account, and come right back.

And as for the “banning” being “illegal“ . . . The moderator is guilty?!? Of what? Doing their job? Following the CLEARLY posted rules of the forum? It’s SEROTTA’S bulletin board, ‘fer Pete’s sake! If YOU had a web site, would you want competitors posting advertisements on it? Of course not! And the only way I can think of to enforce the rules as fairly as possible is to prohibit ALL competitor ads, not just those who actually make frames.

Serotta only instituted these very fair, very understandable rules last year after some very serious problems. I think if you look through the past threads, you will see that the Serotta folks very often bend over backwards to grin and bear it in the interest of fair and open discussion.

BBDave

[Kevin]

I'm with BBDave. As an "insider" I believe that the moderators have been more than fair in the way they have run this forum.

Kevin

[Big Dan]

In my opinion it wasn't handled in a proper way. We are not in high school anymore. We are all customers that deserve more than all the crap about
"further investigations" and so on..... :crap:

[GoJavs]

I think the new moderator will need some time to learn the subtle nuances of the board. There are certain characters that are what make this board what it is. Those characters should be granted some degree of "artistic liberty" due to the uncommon amount of insight they bring to this family show! :beer:

[Climb01742]

why don't we cut serotta james some slack, how about? though alyson was the sherriff, james has been part of this forum for awhile and i think he knows what's up. from what i understand, there is more to this story than is apparent on the surface...stuff that only the direct particpants know about. but in the end, i think two things are paramount...the jerk is back...and we are all guests in this wonderful playhouse that ben graciously built, maintains and bankrolls. some tried to tell douglas how he should run his own TdFL and look how that turned out. personally, i'd steer clear of telling serotta ben or serotta james how to run their playhouse. whatever nits any of us might care to pick with the details, the grand scheme of things is, IMO, pretty damn rocking...at least that's my (with inflation) 3 cents. :beer:

[Big Dan]

Climb, I understand what you are saying but...I didn't win my 2 Serottas in a raffle, I paid for them.............. :eek:

[Sandy]

Enjoy the gift that we have and be grateful we have it.

Grateful to be alive,

Senior Sandy

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . simply buying a Serotta gives us the right to decide how the company runs their bulletin board? Or makes the company beholden to us to explain any little administrative action they take? I don’t get it . . . :confused:

BBDave

[Kevin]

This version of the forum is working pretty well. The Jerk has no complaints on how he was treated. So lets all just move on.

Anybody have a handlebar they can suggest?

Kevin

[Climb01742]

but honestly, dan, what does our purchase of a serotta frame entitle us to? strictly speaking, only a damn fine frame. but due to ben's generousity and business smarts, he also lets it entitle us (or perhaps allows us) to enjoy this forum. and in 99% of the threads and posts, ben and company let us say just about anything we want. i mean, how many times have i said how much i love my pegoretti's and my parlee? or that i'm jonzing for a sachs? or that i hated my first ottrott (and hope to love my second, incoming one)? for that 99% freedom, i'll accept the 1% enforcement of whatever rules ben chooses. and as i said, there is more to this story than is apparent. for me, i trust that whatever those full details are, ben and james and whoever made the right choice. i think that's ben's right. at least that's how i see it. ;)

[GoJavs]

As a casual, very casual lurker, I really don't give a hoot what Serotta decides to do. You are right, it's their deal. However, I can honestly say that without the jerk, e-ritchie....and the sorely missed dbrk, I'd likely visit less frequently or not at all.

Anyone with me? :fight:

[Climb01742]

but they're all here, except douglas, and he took a break for purely personal reasons. how does any of that reflect on how this forum is run? i'd argue that how this forum is run is WHY they're here...and tom kellogg...and dario...and david kirk...and don ferris...and.... :beer:

[Kevin]

As a casual, very casual lurker, I really don't give a hoot what Serotta decides to do. You are right, it's their deal. However, I can honestly say that without the jerk, e-ritchie....and the sorely missed dbrk, I'd likely visit less frequently or not at all.

Anyone with me? :fight:


To the best of my knowledge jerk and e-ritchie have not left the forum. In addition, Douglas did not leave the forum because he thought that his right to free speech was being taken away.

Kevin

[GoJavs]

I am sure dbrk had his reasons. To speculate how jerk and e-ritchie currently feel about the forum would be silly. My argument remains: making it harder for those guys to express themselves by threatening probation will drive them away...I am sorry, I am probably wrong. My mother dropped me when I was a baby. I think I'm just gonna go for a ride... :p

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . (as e-richie would say!), but I just have to politely disagree with you. I have seen absolutely no problems with anything posted by any retailer in any area of cycling on this forum as long as they do not directly send people to a certain web site where they are selling their products. That’s what the Jerk did. I have never seen richie do that, nor Dave Kirk, nor Bill Bove, nor TiDesigns, nor Wheelworks, nor even Dario Peg himself--and yes, he DID chime in a few times. And even if these people did, they have made no secret of their conflict of interest in being associated with the industry.

Granted, Jerk was soliciting feedback on the site design, but the fact remains that WAS what he was doing--posting a direct link to a site where he is HIMSELF selling cycling products. And he DOES have a conflict of interest--trust me.

Go to other manufacturer bulletin boards and post messages critical of their products and endorsing competitors. See what happens. I think Ben and Co. have been amazingly fair and open-minded in establishing a place where Climb is right--we can say 99% whatever we want. I would be willing to wager that’s a good bit farther than any other manufacturer has gone.

BBDave

[GoJavs]

You are right. I realize those people within the cycling industry that regularly post in here do have to walk a fine line. I just don't want to lose any of them...for my own sake. Until Mr. Serotta himself starts posting in here, those guys are the closest thing we have to real industry insight...at least on this board. ;)

[Climb01742]

speaking of e-richie...he just helped me find a particular set of handlebars...ones from a company he really likes...but he helped me score them off-line...which i think is a an important distinction...off-line commerce...but can we get back to richie's brown sweater...BROWN????!!!!...not red?????

[Big Dan]

Sorry to break the news guys... but this is a marketing tool. As a customer I have the right to be respected, maybe you guys don't understand....Let me make it crystal clear..this morning a friend call me asking me about a Legend Ti..don't you guys think that my feelings about Serotta, the board and it's employees matter? Wake up it does matter....I understand most people here are happy and don't like to rock the boat, well I do like to rock it..as of now I know where you guys are coming from....Sorry to find out..my condolences..



btw: I told my friend to look at the Vortex, Seven, Moots and IF...maybe it makes a difference how I feel afterall.............. :D

[Big Dan]

BBD you just don't get it boy......keep following the herd and keep the updates of your Dear Tyler coming.......... :crap:

PS: McFly...I mean Dave..."the customer is always right".....

[slowgoing]

Keep the criticisms coming and soon the board will go by the wayside just like it did just over a year ago. Remember that? It may be worth going back and re-reading how thankful we were that Ben and company resumed the forum. This is anything but a democracy and the forum could be gone in an instant if Serotta feels it's not worth the time or the effort, all because some people like to "rock the boat." Go ahead and rock the boat, but please don't do by overtly criticizing Serotta, at least not on the Serotta board.

And the forum isn't just a marketing tool for Serotta. It's a place a lot of us come to enjoy. Don't muck it up for the rest of us just because you like to rock the boat.

Besides, Serotta James handled it extremely well. He didn't overreact, but instead reserved judgment until talking about it with others at Serotta, exactly as he should have. This was definitely a corporate decision, and a good one in my opinion. And frankly, I'm surprised a decision was made so quickly, seeing as how these people are also busy trying to run a company.

[Big Dan]

Slow, I'm not putting down any Serotta product, what I'm saying is that the way the moderator handles the problems has a lot to do with how some people feel about the product.....I guess you wouldn't understand....

Live$trong brother...

[Orin]

I've run an email list and had the same issue come up so I know the moderator side.

Personally, I feel that something like the jerk's web page is of interest and I for one did go take a look. Buy something? Highly unlikely.

Now would it have been OK if someone else had posted the link? I think so. The prohibition is against advertising web sites, not reporting about them (otherwise all those Velonews links would be 'illegal').

On the list I ran, I wanted to maximise the information available and found it silly to bar information because a list member had conflict of interest. So my policy allowed someone to post once about their product _in the form of a link_ (so as to minimise bandwidth) and once for any new product or significant update. Answering questions was also OK if of interest to the list. With email addresses essentially being unlimited, it was pointless banning anyone; they could just come back with a new address - as can someone here - they can simply create a new account based off a different email address. If a poster had a doubt about a message, they were free to send it to me first and I'd forward it on to the list. I'd have allowed the jerk's original post and even one more when he goes live. After that, no more. There were a couple of times when I had to set the list to 'moderated' and believe me, there were some posts pretty close to the jerk's that I let through.

Now I understand Serotta's desire that this board not get clogged with spam, though to be honest, the thread on the jerk's web site was more interesting than a lot of the bickering that goes on... If I were moderating the board, I'd say send the information to me and I'd post it. However that's probably not going to work here as some might take it as Serotta giving tacit approval to whatever was being 'reported'. The only way I could see would be to have an independent moderator to handle such issues. Otherwise, it's back to posting under a pseudonym or having a friend pass on the information.

Discuss,

Orin.

[slowgoing]

Big Dan – Instead of continuing to be a self-professed misunderstood rebel who likes to rock the boat by spewing complaints and who also claims to have the influence to persuade others not to purchase from Serotta, why not channel all of that energy into something positive by formulating constructive suggestions that resolve your complaints and then diplomatically sharing them with the powers that be? It might ruin the image you're trying to create for yourself, but it's more likely to do good that bare criticisms. It’s just a thought….

[M_A_Martin]

Does anyone remember the hue and cry that went up when Kirk P. posted a link to a customer who uses his lugs? Oh my.

I think Serotta James was just enforcing the rules as stated in the user agreement and in the process perhaps *trying* to clear up the usual 100 posts of useless mud slinging that goes on. And I think he did a fine job...except here we are.

For reference, the discussion of questionable posts goes like this:
"Oh look, does this belong on the board?"
"Cool, Thanks, I like it or appreciate it."
"Nope, no way, someone should do something about that."
"Well, it *is* Serotta's board, if they don't want it there, they'll remove it."
"It's an open forum and we should be able to trade information like that."
"You suck."
"You're an idiot."

Meanwhile the original poster of the information/link gets bit slapped with posts ranging from name calling to those uplifting them next to the enlightened beings of the bicycle world (if there are such).

And then it gets ugly.

Serotta James just did what we always said Serotta would do if they didn't see something as appropriate. Why is anyone complaining about it? We've been asking them (by way of arguing the point) to do this for quite a while.

If anyone has noticed, a large number of posts on the board have been to the appropriateness of posted material and less about the bikes. WHY? If you want to notify Serotta that you think a post is inappropriate, it doesn't do any good to complain to the forum: USE THE TOOL PROVIDED (icon on the top of the post). If they don't do something, do it again. Persistance pays off.

Please go back to your bike room and figure out some:
new thing to do with your bike,
your training, questions,
places to go,
things to see,
concerns,
happiness with Serotta (it is a Serotta board after all, wanna chat about a different bike? Go find their web site and forum...they have one yes?),
real complaints about Serotta and it's service (it is a Serotta forum after all, I think these belong here as well)
different styles of riding and Serotta's place in that world (it is a Serotta board after all),
and perhaps some alternatives Serotta (something they *should* sell),
along with your happieness/unhappiness with whatever new bikey you've gotten or want (even if it isn't a Serotta...within reason I suppose),
some bike p*rn, maybe some personal OT stuff
and share it with us because we are all sort of a family here.

And yes, we all know this is an underused marketing tool but we still all evidently spend too much time here.

And yes, this is a selfish post, I'm stuck here off the bike recovering from ACL reconstruction and you guys are arguing about a silly link that the original poster has already moved on from. Please-oh-please redirect your energies to something interesting and bike related. Thanks.

[93legendti]

Does anyone remember the hue and cry that went up when Kirk P. posted a link to a customer who uses his lugs? Oh my.

I think Serotta James was just enforcing the rules as stated in the user agreement and in the process perhaps *trying* to clear up the usual 100 posts of useless mud slinging that goes on. And I think he did a fine job...except here we are.

For reference, the discussion of questionable posts goes like this:
"Oh look, does this belong on the board?"
"Cool, Thanks, I like it or appreciate it."
"Nope, no way, someone should do something about that."
"Well, it *is* Serotta's board, if they don't want it there, they'll remove it."
"It's an open forum and we should be able to trade information like that."
"You suck."
"You're an idiot."

Meanwhile the original poster of the information/link gets bit slapped with posts ranging from name calling to those uplifting them next to the enlightened beings of the bicycle world (if there are such).

And then it gets ugly.

Serotta James just did what we always said Serotta would do if they didn't see something as appropriate. Why is anyone complaining about it? We've been asking them (by way of arguing the point) to do this for quite a while.

If anyone has noticed, a large number of posts on the board have been to the appropriateness of posted material and less about the bikes. WHY? If you want to notify Serotta that you think a post is inappropriate, it doesn't do any good to complain to the forum: USE THE TOOL PROVIDED (icon on the top of the post). If they don't do something, do it again. Persistance pays off.

Please go back to your bike room and figure out some:
new thing to do with your bike,
your training, questions,
places to go,
things to see,
concerns,
happiness with Serotta (it is a Serotta board after all, wanna chat about a different bike? Go find their web site and forum...they have one yes?),
real complaints about Serotta and it's service (it is a Serotta forum after all, I think these belong here as well)
different styles of riding and Serotta's place in that world (it is a Serotta board after all),
and perhaps some alternatives Serotta (something they *should* sell),
along with your happieness/unhappiness with whatever new bikey you've gotten or want (even if it isn't a Serotta...within reason I suppose),
some bike p*rn, maybe some personal OT stuff
and share it with us because we are all sort of a family here.

And yes, we all know this is an underused marketing tool but we still all evidently spend too much time here.

And yes, this is a selfish post, I'm stuck here off the bike recovering from ACL reconstruction and you guys are arguing about a silly link that the original poster has already moved on from. Please-oh-please redirect your energies to something interesting and bike related. Thanks.

Well said! I hope you recover quickly. I partially tore my right ACL 15 years ago. Never had the surgery...3 Dr.s gave me 3 different opinions. So I went the conservative route and rested and rehabbed. (I already have a metal rod in my right femur from a ski accident 25 years ago. I had some mild complications after the surgery--couldn't bend my leg, so I was not anxious for another surgery.)

My ACL bothers me for 1-2 days every few years. I figured one day I would miss a step or slip on ice and the ACL would go 100% and by then the surgery would be better, less invasive and faster to recover from. My phys therapist told me roller blading nd biking were great rehab tools for ACl's. I hope you recover wuickly!

[M_A_Martin]

Thanks for the knee encouragement.

Rollerblading good for knees? Your PT never saw me yard sail doing 20mph on my long blades...
:banana:

[Climb01742]

I understand most people here are happy and don't like to rock the boat, well I do like to rock it..as of now I know where you guys are coming from....Sorry to find out..my condolences..

dan, you and i simply have different takes on this issue. which is part of what makes a forum fun. not sure why this difference of opinion requires name-calling. and were we ever to get a chance to meet, ride and talk, you'd discover i am a pretty big boat-rocker. my feelings on this issue aren't born out of timidity and a herd mentality. just a different POV than yours, both of which are valid, IMO, and are justifiably aired.

[93legendti]

Thanks for the knee encouragement.

Rollerblading good for knees? Your PT never saw me yard sail doing 20mph on my long blades...
:banana:

Knee pads?

[Needs Help]

He loves Serotta, so it's ok for Serotta to restrict the rights of people, and he loves Tyler, so anybody who tries to restrict his rights is bad. On the one hand, Serotta has the right to do whatever they want. "It's their show. Cut off the jerk's right right index finger if they want." On the other hand, the UCI doesn't have the right to do what they want.

This is anything but a democracy and the forum could be gone in an instant if Serotta feels it's not worth the time or the effort
Have you never heard of the www.bikefanclub.com? Is the internet full? Is open source forum software not free anymore?

[M_A_Martin]

"Restricting the rights of people"

no.

Serotta may be restricting the content of their corporate web site and marketing tools, but not the rights of people.


um....Needs Help? which "he"?


93lt: at those speeds the black ice does help you slide not stick, but you get more scuffage from the protective gear attachments than you might from the cement. Nonetheless I wear it all.
My fault on the long frames is I get my center of balance too far forward and I wind up sortof up on my toes...which directly proceeds going over the front of your frames. You just hope the two guys directly behind you in the pace line can jump.

[93legendti]

I used to speed skate on long frames. I wonder if your frames need to be slid back on the boot?

Back to the Forum...everyone agreed to the new User Agreement before they could re-register. If they don't like the rules there are planty of other Forums.

[M_A_Martin]

Ah, frames were too long. I'm only 5'6 and was skating on 13.5s, there was always plenty of frame out in front of the Bonts...and behind...I'd just get a little overeager, only happens to me in pacelines. Skating solo or in a twosome I don't have the problem. Speed control is a bit more of an issue though solo. I do better on 12.8s, 12.5s are a little slow for me...I'd really like to try out some of those bigwheel/small wheel things I've been seeing on the club/outdoor racers who show up at the dome, but for now I've relegated the skates to the same area as the rock climbing gear for a year. The no-go zone.


Oh that's right, we're on the Serotta board. Bikes...
Speed skating is excellent winter crosstraining. Any year I get to speedskate through the winter I come into my spring riding much stronger, and have to do less work at the leg press machine in the gym. A classic skating crouch is basically one long set of squats with footwork, power, and speed instead of weight....

[Climb01742]

Back to the Forum...everyone agreed to the new User Agreement before they could re-register. If they don't like the rules there are plenty of other Forums.

amen. perhaps a good final word on the subject.

[Kevin]

.

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<BBD you just don't get it boy......keep following the herd and keep the updates of your Dear Tyler coming..........

PS: McFly...I mean Dave..."the customer is always right".....>>

No, I certainly don’t “get” this . . . What on earth are you talking about, Dan? I have said several times that it would not surprise me if Tyler is guilty. I may babble on about him, but at least he does have something to do with cycling.

Mary Ann . . . You have it exactly right. Very well said. And I believe “Needs Help” is talking about me. Perhaps his time would be better spent going out for a ride on the new Serotta I’m SURE he bought after soliciting so much advice from forum members. How DO you like that new Serotta, NH? . . .

Good Lord. Come on, Mary Ann, let’s go get a beer and talk about bikes! . . . :p

BBD

[Ti Designs]

Serotta depends on retail shops to sell it's product - and I happen to work at one of the larger ones out there. I watch watch what is said on the board because I know it will come up in conversation with my customers. The Jerk selling product on the forum has been an issue with my shop, partly because he's so highly respected on this forum, but also partly because it's simply in print on the Serotta web site. The first part they can't do anything about, nor do they want to. The second part they can and did.

Bike shops protect their interests, which is why they have exclusive deals in areas. Nobody wants the guy across the street selling the same product that you sell, it makes for price wars and lack of profits. Serotta dealers aren't only about price, they are about fitting and value for the money spent. My shop spent over $20,000 sending it's staff members to fitting school, do you think that would ever happen if it were strictly about price? Serotta also does it's part in protecting the interests of it's dealers. When the Jerk posted his link the sales manager at Serotta got a number of phone calls from dealers. They had a choise to make, step on their dealers toes or step on the Jerk's toes. Not only did they make the right choise, but they did it in the right manner. The Jerk is still on the board, the rules of posting was upheld, and the link is gone.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it has all worked out. I doubt the Jerk was ever “banned” and that this ever went beyond one pulled thread and one e-mail to him.

Thank you, Ti-Guy . . . and I think your post proves the point that the best advertisement any dealer can make on this forum is simply to participate and give accurate information and honest opinions. That is far more impressive to me as a potential customer than any link or overt advertisement that could be posted.

BBdave

[Kevin]

Mary Ann . . . You have it exactly right. Very well said. And I believe “Needs Help” is talking about me. Perhaps his time would be better spent going out for a ride on the new Serotta I’m SURE he bought after soliciting so much advice from forum members. How DO you like that new Serotta, NH? . . .
BBD

Needs Help,

The suspense is getting to all of us, tell us about your new ride. What did you decide to get? What did the new ride replace? What are your impressions of the new ride vs. the old ride? How many miles have you put on the new ride? Please post pictures of the new ride. Maybe the picture can be a side by side of the new and old rides.

Kevin

[Tom]

What I done lurned from this thread...

- Get back to the gym! The biggest reason I don't go down there is I have to hear the weather forecast and warm weather in the winter kills me. Just kills me. 93lt and MA's conversation about skating was the nudge to get back there. I got hills to climb.
- Be thankful I have other things to worry about than the politics on a bike forum. Like how to tile around the fireplace. Doing something that you have no idea how to do and having to figure out every question's answer for the first time is a lot of fun, even if you lose sleep over it. Now, do I miter the Schluters or butt joint them.... Renovation is fun, I can only say research, research, research. If the 2000 year old man were interviewed today, I'm sure he'd say Google is the greatest invention on the planet. Who knew you'd have to research how to put up crown molding?
- Hell, I might try building my own wheels after this.
- Tubulars? Do I wanna go with a set of tubulars? If I can set tile, I can glue a tubie methinks.
- February sucks. Though yesterday on the way home from renting the wet saw I thought it would have been a great day for an outdoors ride. You've been in the cellar on the stinking trainer every day and that cement block wall's starting to really get on your nerves. Pretty soon you're ripping the other guys on the bike forum you hang out on.
- Last year I got my first outdoors ride on March 7. I don't think I'll get out that early this year but the way things are going.... maybe I take an afternoon off and breathe some fresh air.

There you go. One post no content. Go for a great ride today, peoples.

[Sandy]

You too, person!

Sandy

[Climb01742]

yes, tom, judging by the weather map today, isn't an outdoor ride feasible for you? i hope so. yesterday i rode outside for the first time in '05 and though a bit cold and messy, it was nevertheless glorious. oh, to be outside!

[BarryG]

yes, tom, judging by the weather map today, isn't an outdoor ride feasible for you?
Absolutely glorious weather in the Capital district - sunny and low 40's and it felt warmer on the bike. About the best winter riding you could ever hope for in these parts, especially coming out of our beyond-frigid month of January. Roads weren't bad either.

Barry

[Michael Katz]

Sunday, 7:30a.m. Should be 41 by 10:00 and 44 by12:00. Roads have cleared of snow and ice over the last 3 days. 9:00 ride with friends. 50 miles under blue skies, sunshine and crisp air. First outdoor ride in 3 weeks - YEAH!
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

I’m sorry you’re having trouble with the tiling, buddy. You should have asked me for advice--God knows how often I’ve told you that I know everything! It would have saved you so much time! . . . ;) :rolleyes:

BBDave

[the walrus]

Just an observation but aren't "Ti-Design" and "Wheelworks" an infringment of the retailer rules?

[jerk]

enough...the jerk made a mistake. he posted a link in violation of serotta's rules. it's their forum they can do whatever they like whether the jerk or you like it or not.....in this case the jerk happens to like and approve of their descision.....the jerk is opinionated and crass and does not represent any one's interests other than himself...that's partly the reason for his crassness, his jerkiness and his anonymity...he founded a little company to bring in some little parts with a couple of other guys and one gal that no lbs or distributor would ever think to market or bring in.....part of the reason the jerk did this was because this forum taught the jerk that there were other people in the world who wanted this stuff....so here's the deal the jerk still wants to be here, still wants to infuriate, educated and innoculate all of his pals with his nonsense. take his advice as you will....buy stuff from your lbs and vendors you trust.
so please no more talk about this. if the jerk is pm'ed or emailed from the serotta site concerning this issue he will not reply nor will he forward you to anyone who will reply. the jerk you all love or hate will remain...will continue to tell you your stem is too short...will remain a retro-grouch in love with carbon wheels(?)....the jerk will remain a strong supporter of serotta and will refrain from discussing or publishing his thoughts on this forum about any of the products he has a direct hand in importing. can we get on to a discussion about trail now?

jerk

[Ti Designs]

Just an observation but aren't "Ti-Design" and "Wheelworks" an infringment of the retailer rules?

Just a quick look at the rules as they are posted:

1. If you are a retailer or manufacturer, you may not advertise your products or services on this forum.
2. You may not advertise other websites, via posts, PMs, or signatures. The purpose of this rule is to prevent careless spammers from abusing our forum. This also is intended to prevent posts of a competitive nature. These posts will be edited or deleted, with or without notice, and the members may be banned.
3. You warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
4. Respect toward fellow members is expected. You agree not to harass, flame, insult, taunt, or otherwise disrespect any member of this forum. In other words, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.


Rule #1 states that retailers are not allowed to advertise their products here. I will make suggestions on products should someone ask questions, but you will not find any advertising being done in any of my posts. And while I have posted a picture in one thread, you probably don't know what I sell (outside of my job at some large bike shop in Belmont MA)

As for Wheelworks (which isn't another name for me), that account was created to voice the shop's stance on fit and pricing, as well as answer technical questions on products. The shop has an advantage over individuals when it comes to answering such questions. At least once I've seen a Wheelworks post stating that we have product on hand - new Look cleats I think. Even in this there was no advertising, someone wanted new cleats and the shop posted that they were in stock.

Rule #3 states that we will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar... Thus there are no pictures of me.

Any questions???

[Climb01742]

i happen to know that serotta encourages authorized dealers, like wheelworks or wheatridge or whomever, to answer questions posed on the forum. they encourage an exchange of information. which is what i believe ti designs, wheelworks and (the vast majority of the time) the jerk does...exchange information and opinion...which each of us can take or leave as we see fit.

[drunkenfool]

[QUOTE=jerk]the jerk is opinionated and crass and does not represent any one's interests other than himself...
...he founded a little company to bring in some little parts with a couple of other guys and one gal that no lbs or distributor would ever think to market or bring in.....

Yes, stay around and put in your two cents (oh right inflation.. so that would be 3 cents) some of your stories are quite humorous..... i like the one about the Concord TT and almost beating McCormack record. It is the comments like above about no LBS or distributer that are false and misleading. Since you deal with Euro-Asia and Milano sport you know this to be true and that any LBS can pick up a phone a get such products.

[M_A_Martin]

Go ride your bikes.


(talk about an almost totally wasted hijack...Tom, I'm glad the hijack inspired you to get back into the gym...)

[Kevin]

The Jerk has no complaints on how he was treated. So lets all just move on.

Anybody have a handlebar they can suggest?

Kevin

This is the first time that I have quoted myself, but I am hoping that it works the second time. So following up on Ginger's post, anybody have a good handlebar to suggest? My ride on the trainer this morining was very boring. Anybody getting outside?

Kevin

[Bruce K]

Kevin;

2 things:

1. Why not start a new thread to take your handlebar quetion to a fresh start and end this thread? and

2. Before anyone of us could suggest a change we ought to know what you are using now and what you either don't like or want different.

For short reach/short drop I like 3TTT Prima 199's but some folks like the Salsas. In carbon, similar dimensions in Modolo Curvissima but they have an unusual top "corner" that slopes away from you.

BK

[Climb01742]

Anybody getting outside? Kevin

yep. only in winter can 40 degrees feel almost warm, but got in a wonderful two hour ride outside this morning. my MXL is a mess but i'm happy as can be. maybe missing three weeks of riding in jan. on a biz trip renewed my enthusiasm, but damn it's fun to be outside.

[e-RICHIE]

Bruce K-issimo wrote (before he left for a quick 45 miler...):
"For short reach/short drop I like 3TTT Prima 199's but..."




darling. the prima 199's were a model, not a shape.
they were available in anataomic, tdf, and merckx
shapes. the anatomic was the icky* shape, the tdf
was the shallow (i should know) shape, and the
merckx was the deep (no comment) shape.
e-RICHIE
* not a catalog term.

arrange disorder

[e-RICHIE]

Climb90210-issimo wrote (snipped):
"my MXL is a mess but i'm happy as can be..."



i want pictures.
here are my messes, from friday and saturday, respectively.
(i'm leaving now to work on sunday's mess).

fri:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/album?.dir=61e5&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/my_photos

sat:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/album?.dir=aa59&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/my_photos

[jerk]

handlebars...there's something the jerk wants to talk about.....cinelli 65s, get those. you can borrow the jerk's "way-back machine" to find some... those were a handlebar....strangley enough its weird shape means theres enough room for the little piggies in the drops with the new dura-ace 10 speed levers...plus you get that long flat drop and that nice bend and all that good stuff....beligan bend ("deep" drop) is nice too but on most modern bikes it leaves the brakes too close to the drops...and the drop is a little deep for modern set up....the italian bend (shalllow drop) solves the second problem but not the first...either way living with either problem is drastic improvement on putting up with anatomic bars and their "ickyness."

jerk

[H.Frank Beshear]

E-Richie is that the (brand name deleted :D ) bar you've spoken highly of? I wonder if it comes in oversized? Also I know you build them and I know they are tools to be used but my goodness thems some messy bikes. :banana: :beer: . Frank

[e-RICHIE]

hfb-issimo
3T and oval concepts both offer os dimension bars,
but not in every shape, mostly just in the icky ones.

[Len J]

yep. only in winter can 40 degrees feel almost warm, but got in a wonderful two hour ride outside this morning. my MXL is a mess but i'm happy as can be. maybe missing three weeks of riding in jan. on a biz trip renewed my enthusiasm, but damn it's fun to be outside.

Got out both days...

48 Miles on the fixie on Sat
30 Miles on the Ottrott on Sunday

Ah Bliss

Len

[Chief]

I jkust turned 67 yesterday and if I should ever be forunate enough to own a Ricahard Sachs bike, I would never treat it like you did yours. :no:

However having lived in the north in my younger years, I bet it was fun.

I only wish you would have posted a picture of yourself after that ride.

[the walrus]

Just a quick look at the rules as they are posted:

1. If you are a retailer or manufacturer, you may not advertise your products or services on this forum.
2. You may not advertise other websites, via posts, PMs, or signatures. The purpose of this rule is to prevent careless spammers from abusing our forum. This also is intended to prevent posts of a competitive nature. These posts will be edited or deleted, with or without notice, and the members may be banned.
3. You warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
4. Respect toward fellow members is expected. You agree not to harass, flame, insult, taunt, or otherwise disrespect any member of this forum. In other words, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.


Rule #1 states that retailers are not allowed to advertise their products here. I will make suggestions on products should someone ask questions, but you will not find any advertising being done in any of my posts. And while I have posted a picture in one thread, you probably don't know what I sell (outside of my job at some large bike shop in Belmont MA)

As for Wheelworks (which isn't another name for me), that account was created to voice the shop's stance on fit and pricing, as well as answer technical questions on products. The shop has an advantage over individuals when it comes to answering such questions. At least once I've seen a Wheelworks post stating that we have product on hand - new Look cleats I think. Even in this there was no advertising, someone wanted new cleats and the shop posted that they were in stock.

Rule #3 states that we will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar... Thus there are no pictures of me.

Any questions???

How does "voicing the shops stance on...pricing..." not violate the rule? Also, you just indicated that you work for and answer questions for Belmont Wheelworks. How does advertising your services and detailing the parts your store stocks not lead potential customers to your store, thus constitute advertising?

I'm not angry, or even that concerned, just confused.

[drunkenfool]

How does "voicing the shops stance on...pricing..." not violate the rule? Also, you just indicated that you work for and answer questions for Belmont Wheelworks. How does advertising your services and detailing the parts your store stocks not lead potential customers to your store, thus constitute advertising?

I'm not angry, or even that concerned, just confused.


As you mention, Ti-designs works at Belmont Wheelworks and does not hide a thing about this fact. No hidden agenda and you know who and what he represents. The person of question at the beginning of this thread does work in a bike shop, promotes such bike shop but does not inform the forum he actually works in such bike shop. This is misleading!

[Tom]

I was coming back from returning the wet saw and there he went by looking unreasonably happy. You gotta love it.

Me pull spacers, curse the Schluter (we got 125 for 3/8 tile. Don't. Get the 100s. I should have looked at the web site, it was the only piece of bad advice we ever got from the Local Tile Store.) and take a nap. Later I'll hit the stinking trainer.

The fireplace looks great. Just don't say 'southwestern' around Karen or she'll hit you on the head with the rubber mallet you use to beat in the tile. I think that's why I need a nap, I might have a concussion.

[the walrus]

i happen to know that serotta encourages authorized dealers, like wheelworks or wheatridge or whomever, to answer questions posed on the forum.

I appologize for keeping this going. I guess I didn't know this. Makes sense.

Love!

[Kevin]

I jkust turned 67 yesterday and if I should ever be forunate enough to own a Ricahard Sachs bike, I would never treat it like you did yours. :no:



If you order the Sachs now, you should get it just in time for your 100th birthday. :banana: :banana:

Kevin

[Dr. Doofus]

4.5 hours today...bad vibes grumpy grumpy anyway this thread has gone on too long so here

thedoofsucks.blogspot.com (http://thedoofsucks.blogspot.com)

[dirtdigger88]

4.5 hours today...bad vibes grumpy grumpy anyway this thread has gone on too long so here

thedoofsucks.blogspot.com (http://thedoofsucks.blogspot.com)

:hello: :hello: :hello:

nice job Doc- that made my day

Jason

[csb]

handlebars are not shapes,
they are forms.

[csb]

if the tile aint bullnosed, you gotta
mitre them.

[Ti Designs]

handlebars...there's something the jerk wants to talk about.....cinelli 65s, get those. you can borrow the jerk's "way-back machine" to find some... those were a handlebar....

Yup, those were bars - they're still all I ever use on road bikes, or 67s on track bikes. My last new pair still has the price tag from the Bicycle Exchange in Harvard square - I paid $14.99 for them way back then. Nobody makes crit bars any more, I don't understand why. The idea behind the crit bar is the sweeping arc for the top bend instead of the flat top means your wrists don't hit the bar in an out of the saddle sprint as you move forward. I find that the curve at the top keeps me more open for climbing than a much wider flat top bar, so I can run a 40cm cinelli 65 (measured center to center) while I would be at least 2 cm wider in a flat top bar.

The modern drawback to the Cinelli 65 is it's weight and clamp diameter. Not being a weight weenie I have no idea what it tips the scales at, but I'm sure it's not light. The 26.4mm clamp diameter is a more serious problem - it doesn't fit any modern stems. I milled out my stems to 26.4 so I can use the old Cinelli bars, but there's no going back...

[Bruce K]

e-richie;

I have never seen the bars offered in any shape but one. I only have ever bought one style (I guess the anatomics) and never had to specify.

I will, however, defer to your vastly superior knowledge.

To change topics, so what's up with that cross bike? Are there any other team bikes of similar size possibly going to come available?

I would also like to chat about possibly ordering a new frame depending on lead time and such.

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<. . . ordering a new frame depending on lead time and such.>>

You just turned 50. The average life expectancy for an American male is 75.4. You might only get to ride your new bike down the halls of the nursing home for a few months. It will be a very close thing! ;)

Grandpa Dave

[M_A_Martin]

Alrighty then Bruce...nothing like crossing the line everyone is yelling about in the other direction.

Hey, remember when everyone complained about having to wait for their custom Serotta? I don't hear so much of that anymore. Evidently those changes Serotta made worked?

[jerk]

Yup, those were bars - they're still all I ever use on road bikes, or 67s on track bikes. My last new pair still has the price tag from the Bicycle Exchange in Harvard square - I paid $14.99 for them way back then. Nobody makes crit bars any more, I don't understand why. The idea behind the crit bar is the sweeping arc for the top bend instead of the flat top means your wrists don't hit the bar in an out of the saddle sprint as you move forward. I find that the curve at the top keeps me more open for climbing than a much wider flat top bar, so I can run a 40cm cinelli 65 (measured center to center) while I would be at least 2 cm wider in a flat top bar.

The modern drawback to the Cinelli 65 is it's weight and clamp diameter. Not being a weight weenie I have no idea what it tips the scales at, but I'm sure it's not light. The 26.4mm clamp diameter is a more serious problem - it doesn't fit any modern stems. I milled out my stems to 26.4 so I can use the old Cinelli bars, but there's no going back...


you got it buddy....jerk uses 40cm 65s on his bikes....that's a great bar and they protect your wrists....bring back crit bars! 65s were available for a very short period of time in the more modern clamp diameter....jerk hoarded a few and will grab'em when he sees'em. cinelli used to make so many great things...it's really a shame what has happened to that once prestigious marque. gruppo could have done so much more with it.....

[weisan]

you got it buddy....jerk uses 40cm 65s on his bikes....that's a great bar and they protect your wrists....bring back crit bars! 65s were available for a very short period of time in the more modern clamp diameter....jerk hoarded a few and will grab'em when he sees'em. cinelli used to make so many great things...it's really a shame what has happened to that once prestigious marque. gruppo could have done so much more with it.....

Cinelli 65-40 Alloy racing bar ~
In good stock!
http://www.bikyle.com/TrackParts.asp