DA electronic anyone?

[jpw]

Is anyone using Dura ace 7900 electronic?

How is it?

Would it be better to stick to the mechanical version?

Thx. Jason.

[Pete Serotta]

I know that Serotta Steve and Serotta Dave love theirs. Steve is a very astute wrench and is not one for liking something because it is new....BUT he REALLY likes his!!!

Dave is a techie and we knew he would be interested but after riding it - he has stopped riding his other bike for it does not have electronic


I have the ole slow mechanical that matches the ole slow PETE ;)

[MattTuck]

Usually I am not one to poopoo new technology. But I fail to see the benefit of electronic shifting except in very specific/high level situations.

Would it be convenient when your hands are on the bars to be able to shift without moving them to the hoods/drops? perhaps.

In my opinion, the most compelling reason would be for being able to shift when you were on the brakes of a TT bike.


Other than that, not really sure what the point is other than the inevitable march of technology.

[TAW]

I mentioned this in another thread, but a Shimano rep came in the shop and I got an extended test ride on the DI2. My opinion was that the mechanics of the system worked well, particularly on the front. It would shift smoothly even when under a load. Its ability to auto trim was also a nice feature. The rear derailleur doesn't seem to me to be a whole lot better than the standard version. It does have a handy "cable adjustment" for the rear which is electronic, and adjusts the rear in increments with the push of a few buttons.

Aesthetically, it's not what you would call beautiful. Basically looks functional, and a little bulky because of the controls, but not "campy" classy. The lack of cables on the front is nice.

The hoods seem more comfortable, and have a little better shape than previous versions, but again, pretty basic looking. It makes it easier to shift while in the drops, since basically a touch will initiate a shift, rather than having to pull. All in all, I like it, but probably not at the current price.

[Acotts]

Usually I am not one to poopoo new technology. But I fail to see the benefit of electronic shifting except in very specific/high level situations.

Would it be convenient when your hands are on the bars to be able to shift without moving them to the hoods/drops? perhaps.

In my opinion, the most compelling reason would be for being able to shift when you were on the brakes of a TT bike.


Other than that, not really sure what the point is other than the inevitable march of technology.

You need to give it a whirl before you poo poo it. Its pretty damn cool. No bad gears, no mishifts, no bad shifts under load, no ticky tacky noises, and you never have to adjust a your shifters ever again.

I know this is all stuff that can be adjusted, but how many times during a group ride has you RD gotten a little out of place and you got nervous that it might jump on a climb or a sprint? Or maybe had to stay out of a certain gear combo becuase things are acting a little funky? Or,found yourself on a suddenly very steep climb and you want to shift, but are pushing about 10 rpms? All those concerns are gone with Di2.

ooh! Or, you want to throw on a new wheel but your but you know you dont have time to fiddle with the barrel adjuster. The system auto tunes.

As far as performance gains, you are correct that it will only make a difference for pros, CAT 1s and podium TTers. But that can pretty much be said about anything made after 1990 for the bike.

And again, I admit that all the issues I listed above are not major.

But its nice to not have them anymore.

[deluxerider]

i have ridden it twice, both times thought it was very cool, and probably the future of cycling drivetrains. the front shifting is amazing. it will shift under full load perfectly. the rear is fine, but not much better, if at all, than mechanical systems. if it was less expensive and i was in the market, i'd give it serious consideration. i think it's ugly. it's much to expensive right now. i think that the wiring harness alone is around $500. however, it does work very well. in five years you may not be able to buy a higher end bike that is not equipped with electric.

[MattTuck]

how many times during a group ride has you RD gotten a little out of place and you got nervous that it might jump on a climb or a sprint? Or maybe had to stay out of a certain gear combo becuase things are acting a little funky? Or,found yourself on a suddenly very steep climb and you want to shift, but are pushing about 10 rpms? All those concerns are gone with Di2.




So what excuses will I have for not responding to an acceleration? My battery is dead? :rolleyes:

You're right though, I WILL give it a try.

[Acotts]

New excuse:

Sorry guys, my bike is too expensive and you all are reckless!

I'm off to lead the Country Club Couger ride.

[Jack Brunk]

I've got close to 1500 miles on my group. It's flat out the best shifting system I've used to date. It shifts perfectly every time it's asked to. I've recharged the battery once around mile 450. I really like the auto trim on the FD. I can't find one thing that bugs me about the whole group. When I'm riding I never even think about shifting the gears it's that smooth and good. Remember that this is coming from a die hard Campy guy.

[Dave B]

I've got close to 1500 miles on my group. It's flat out the best shifting system I've used to date. It shifts perfectly every time it's asked to. I've recharged the battery once around mile 450. I really like the auto trim on the FD. I can't find one thing that bugs me about the whole group. When I'm riding I never even think about shifting the gears it's that smooth and good. Remember that this is coming from a die hard Campy guy.


Wait does this mean bye bye campy?

If so dibs on 10speed stuff or 11 speed stuff! ;)

[fiamme red]

From all the extravagant accolades of Di2, you'd think that the main pleasure of riding a bike is smooth shifting. :rolleyes:

[Acotts]

From all the extravagant accolades of Di2, you'd think that the main pleasure of riding a bike is smooth shifting. :rolleyes:

I dont know if it is the "main pleasure", but I will say that when my shifting gets wacky for some reason, it is certainly a main annoyance.

it drives me nuts.

[fiamme red]

I dont know if it is the "main pleasure", but I will say that when my shifting gets wacky for some reason, it is certainly a main annoyance.

it drives me nuts.I never have a problem with my shifting getting wacky. Then again, I use downtube shifters. ;)

[Z3c]

I will be finding out pretty soon; I have a Tarmac SL2 Di2 that is in progress.. I will post some comments after some ride time. I was pretty skeptical but after reading some strongly positive reviews, I decided to give it a whirl.

Funny, I find the anti-technology crowd to be interesting; are you still riding a 5 speed freewheel with friction shifting? If not, what it is it about this upgrade that is different?

I can't believe it but I have had this thing for about 2 weeks and it is still not assembled due to time constraints..

[pdmtong]

It took me about 60 seconds of running through all the gears to realize that once the price becomes "afforadable" this is the gruppo to own.

I love my campy. The way it looks and feels. But Di2 is a game changer.

It seems like the biggest issues folks have are battery life perception, aesthetics, and cost.

1) seems to be a non-issue
2) we're now in a world of carbon, slopers, ISP's...if you like box crowns, this ain't for you
3) yea...this one needs to trickle down

At first glance it did seem to me to be a solution to a problem that wasnt' looking for an answer...but as previous posters have noted...Di2 eliminates every shifting issue. period. perfect every time.

When price drops below $2k, I'll start saving up....until then, I'm on the sidelines ...

[Acotts]

I never have a problem with my shifting getting wacky. Then again, I use downtube shifters. ;)

lol. I can see that we are comming from different places.

I dont think Shimano has any plans for 5 speed E-Down Tube shifters.

BTT, when the price comes down, I can see myself throwing it on my CAAD9.

I also think that this has far more potential in the MTB arena. I think a robust/protected RD, that could take a hit, then readjust itself autmatically would be money. Not just that, but intagrating E-Lockout would be huge.

[Acotts]

By the time the price trickles down a new DA will be out and you will want it.

-A

It took me about 60 seconds of running through all the gears to realize that once the price becomes "afforadable" this is the gruppo to own.

I love my campy. The way it looks and feels. But Di2 is a game changer.

It seems like the biggest issues folks have are battery life perception, aesthetics, and cost.

1) seems to be a non-issue
2) we're now in a world of carbon, slopers, ISP's...if you like box crowns, this ain't for you
3) yea...this one needs to trickle down

At first glance it did seem to me to be a solution to a problem that wasnt' looking for an answer...but as previous posters have noted...Di2 eliminates every shifting issue. period. perfect every time.

When price drops below $2k, I'll start saving up....until then, I'm on the sidelines ...

[lemonlaug]

what it is it about this upgrade that is different?

It's a big leap to me in terms of philosophy. It's not a purely mechanical system, which I think is part of the beauty of the bicycle. I'm pretty uninspired by the notion of carrying around a battery and a computer just to make my bike work (I do ride with a computer now, but it doesn't enable me to ride, just tells me how I'm doing). Of course could I break a cable now and be in the same situation I'd be in if I ran out of juice? Sure, I guess. But if I were stranded at the bottom of a pass and I had to shift to get over it, I bet I could fashion a friction shifter pretty readily. Is it ever going to happen? No, and I realize the absurdity of my complaint given that there's no practical difference in comprehensibility between a sufficiently complex mechanical system and an electronic one. I just like mechanical things, and while I appreciate that lots of things have been improved through the addition of a few microprocessors, it BUGS me that I can't take it apart and figure it out. Conversely, I love my bike now because I know I can do just that.

I'm not a luddite either, the computer is my work implement. I'm sure that 20/25 years ago there was someone making the same complaint about cars, and there's no arguing that in the meantime they've been made safer, faster, more efficient and reliable in the meantime. I just don't want anything to steer my bike for me, I don't want anything to power my bike for me, and I don't want anything to shift my bike for me.

I just read this book--which I highly recommend--called "Shop Class as Soulcraft", and one of the premises of the book is that there's something deeply gratifying about owning and mastering a physical thing which can give you feedback about the level of your mastery through its functioning. I keep my shifting in good working order, and it shifts when I need it to. I think I'd miss that.

[lemonlaug]

Di2 eliminates every shifting issue. period. perfect every time.

Then again, don't most brand-new just-installed groups shift pretty well?

Just to continue my role as techno-grouch here: Yeah it's annoying when you drop your chain, it's annoying when you're out of adjustment and everyone can hear you, but how annoying will it be when you're out of adjustment and you can't do anything about it because you have no idea what's going on with your computerized shifter?

Again, just to recognize my own cognitive dissonance regarding this subject: I do have a dura ace shifter that is getting mushier by the mile, and when it finally quits on me, I guarantee I will muscle myself home in whatever gear I'm in. That said, I will know that I'm doing so because I've shifted thousands of times and I've literally worn out some previously sharp-toothed component in my shifter, and that will feel pretty good. Pretty different I'd think than when 10 years down the road Di2 eventually shorts out on the road and you (or if you upgrade before then, whoever) are left wondering what the heck happened.

[Acotts]

Its no big deal. The beauty behind all this is that it is just another option. I think that it will eventually become the standard, just as "standard" has in cars. But I dont think mech shifting will ever go away. Hopefully, it will allow us to score some sweet deals on some sick bikes.

[pdmtong]

I see the 'issues" with loving Di2....retro/techno grouching, love for mechanicals, they all make sense to me. Some folks dislike lexus...too quiet and numb... and prefer BMW etc. I hear you guys and don't think your views are luddite.

I'd also note my ride range....mostly 20-50 miles from my house...with an occasional 75ish If I can make time to go to the coast and back or the coupla centuries I might sign up for. Point is, I'm not far from home, the only guy around for miles, or out of cell range on any of these. So failure wold be inconvenient but not any worse than running out of tubes/patches or C02.

I think the good news is that there is very little chance that electric shifting will wholley replace the tried and true and simple wire...so we can all have what we want as long as we want.

[Jeff N.]

I've heard it shifts like a BMW. But somehow, I'm just not interested. That said, I spoke to Bill Holland not long ago, and he was comtemplating the possibility of building frames that were Di2 specific, with internal wire routing, no barrel adjusters, etc. Sounded interesting. I wonder if power brakes are in the future? Jeff N.

[kgreene10]

I've got close to 1500 miles on my group.

1500 miles! My god Jack, it's clearly far too old. Are you selling it soon?

[Jack Brunk]

1500 miles! My god Jack, it's clearly far too old. Are you selling it soon?
I know it is old but it still works so good. Now if I could get Sasha to internally wire a 2010 Di2 road Speedvagen. Man that would be the end all perfect bike for me.

[CliveDS]

It's the best group on the market right now. Electronic shifting is the future. One ride and you will know this to be true.

It took no more than 2 rides before it changed the way I shift and ride. I find myself shifting twice as much and riding more efficiently.

It's hard for me to go back to my SRAM and Campy bikes.

Do it! if you are liking the idea of electronic you will not be let down by the performance.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_EfVVlOh4vl8/SpU_vrWReKI/AAAAAAAAAS0/j_xysw7BgXQ/s720/Pinarello%20Dogma%20001.JPG

[paulrad9]

It's the best group on the market right now. Electronic shifting is the future. One ride and you will know this to be true.

It took no more than 2 rides before it changed the way I shift and ride. I find myself shifting twice as much and riding more efficiently.

It's hard for me to go back to my SRAM and Campy bikes.

Do it! if you are liking the idea of electronic you will not be let down by the performance.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_EfVVlOh4vl8/SpULM4acwMI/AAAAAAAAAR4/NSFG9EhzwHY/s912/Pinarello%20Dogma%20007.JPG

Nice Di2 review on your blog; you should link to it

[fiamme red]

Now if I could get Sasha to internally wire a 2010 Di2 road Speedvagen. Man that would be the end all perfect bike for me.Until Shimano comes out with Di3. ;)

[gdw]

which can be programmed to shift automatically based upon the feedback from my power meter, heart monitor, biorhythms, and Madam Marie's horoscope reading for the day. Rumor has it that Shimano filed the necessary patents last year.

[RPS]

Funny, I find the anti-technology crowd to be interesting; are you still riding a 5 speed freewheel with friction shifting? If not, what it is it about this upgrade that is different?
It's easier to embrace evolutionary than revolutionary change.

Give it a little time. ;)

[Climb01742]

Man that would be the end all perfect bike for me.

jack, that would be like hugh hefner saying miss august was the end all perfect playmate for him. ain't gonna happen. nor would any of us want it to happen. dude, we live through you!! :beer:

[frannek]

I did not fool with it on purpose until a customer wanted it for his Giant Advanced SL. After installing the group and playing with it, I want it bad now. My customer raves about it. I will have it in the future but hope Shimano will finally incorporate a cool computer within the system somehow, i.e. power.

[Jack Brunk]

jack, that would be like hugh hefner saying miss august was the end all perfect playmate for him. ain't gonna happen. nor would any of us want it to happen. dude, we live through you!! :beer:
I had dinner next to Hugh a couple of years ago and I saw the whole yearly calender. August was really hot but May was out of control. Although I'm still trying to figure what calender the 8 extra ladies fit into. It was quite a night. Don't worry James it won't happen anytime soon.

[Jeff N.]

I had dinner next to Hugh a couple of years ago and I saw the whole yearly calender. August was really hot but May was out of control. Although I'm still trying to figure what calender the 8 extra ladies fit into. It was quite a night. Don't worry James it won't happen anytime soon.A good friend of mine from work, who had connections, got to go to the Playboy Mansion several years back for the Gala New Year's Eve bash. He said it's all you imagine it is and much, much more. Jeff N.

[jpw]

Time to get back to the main subject.

What I don't understand is why this electronic system doesn't have additional button pads for different positions on the handle bars, like on the tops either side of the stem clamp, or around the curve, or on the drops. Wouldn't that be a very natural element of the design?

[BdaGhisallo]

Satellite switches should be available soon. Some of the Columbia riders using DI2 had a switch module mounted near the stem.

[oldguy00]

Anyone tried using the DI2 shifters with full finger / cold weather gloves? I found it a bit difficult to differentiate between the two buttons with my bare fingers while riding along, never mind sprinting or out of the saddle climbing or wearing gloves. I also found the shifting clunky (but accurate) under force like when climbing.
Just my experience. I really wanted to like it, but I just wasn't that impressed. Actually, very impressed on the work stand, but not so much when riding..

[Bob Ross]

while I appreciate that lots of things have been improved through the addition of a few microprocessors, it BUGS me that I can't take it apart and figure it out. Conversely, I love my bike now because I know I can do just that.

Yeah it's annoying when you drop your chain, it's annoying when you're out of adjustment and everyone can hear you, but how annoying will it be when you're out of adjustment and you can't do anything about it because you have no idea what's going on with your computerized shifter?...[snip]... Pretty different I'd think than when 10 years down the road Di2 eventually shorts out on the road and you (or if you upgrade before then, whoever) are left wondering what the heck happened.

You sell yourself short.

Surely you'll admit that there was a time (perhaps way back in the past) when you didn't know the intricacies of a mechanical shifting system, and you didn't know how to repair/maintain it?

And then what happened? Oh yeah... you learned.

People automatically jump to the conclusion that just because they don't understand how something works now, they'll never understand it. I think that's simply a failure of the imagination.

[jpw]

Thanks for all of your replies.

One technical question. Is it possible to use the rear mech without having the front mech on the frame, or does the electronic 'brain' require both to be in place?

Thx.

[dvs cycles]

Thanks for all of your replies.

One technical question. Is it possible to use the rear mech without having the front mech on the frame, or does the electronic 'brain' require both to be in place?

Thx.I think it all integrated and needs the front DR from what I read last year. I might be wrong too.I was thinking of just the rear for my tandem as they don't have a triple fdr just yet so only could use the RD.

[TAW]

Yes, I believe it needs the front.

[rustychain]

I tried it. OK only for a half hour :rolleyes: . Worked great as described. So does my SR. I guess I'm an analog type guy in a digital world. I live and ride near the Blue ridge mountains and the ability to dump gears gives me a more fluid feel then the clic clic clic clic clic of the D2. Is it better? guess it depends on the persons specific needs and wants. I do not see it as a revolution in any meaningful way however. It works and is said to be reliable. So is my Super Record. My SR also shifts well under load,is quite, is quick and I have never missed a shift in the year that its been on my bike (yea I got it early). So what does it matter in regards to performance? IMO not squat
I would be a true ass to bitch if I got "stuck" with either group wouldn't I ;)

[csm]

I was reading SR and thinking old time super record.....

[Jeff N.]

No Di2 in my future, but I sure like my DA-7900! Jeff N.

[Marcy]

I just read this book--which I highly recommend--called "Shop Class as Soulcraft", and one of the premises of the book is that there's something deeply gratifying about owning and mastering a physical thing which can give you feedback about the level of your mastery through its functioning. I keep my shifting in good working order, and it shifts when I need it to. I think I'd miss that.[/QUOTE]

Lemonlaug,

Well said. I've added the Soulcraft book to my reading list.

Looked it up on Amazon, and was delighted to see the author Mathew Crawford is a motorcycle mechanic. In fact, on the cover, is an old BMW motorcycle -- very similar to the old 1974 BMW R90S bike that resides in my garage.

As an educator who has watched with dismay the closing of shop classes in our high schools, I think folks need to be reminded that there are many positive attributes to being able to understand and work on the things we own.

I'm sure the new DA group is great, and I'm not standing in the way of progress and options. But for my riding, the old way is fine.

-- Marc

[jpw]

I thought you were going to mention Robert Persig Marcy.

[whforrest]

If I made the switch I would probably wait until Campy created a second generation electronic shifting grouppo. I do like the looks of the shifters though. However I am almost done building campy super record 11 and I am excited to ride the set. I am attaching it to a ottrot that I have refinished. I think this will be a bike that I keep for the rest of my life. (just like my carbon vitus/campy record set that I still have from 1988. Happy Cycling!

[-dustin]

from my first install back in July....

ok...here we go....

first attempt at wiring the thingie that connects to the batter...not so hot.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796441/large.jpg

after 3 or 4 attempts and way too much time trying to find pictures/ inspirations, I came up with this:

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796454/large.jpg

The piece has grooves on the underside. The wire that connects to "Junction A" up at the headtube is long, so the grooves allow you to basically route the wire between the bolted piece and the BB shell.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796460/large.jpg

Fairly tidy. The battery mount (bolts under DT bottle cage) is as low as I can take it. I don't see how any frame will be able to support a ST bottle cage w/o Shimano's cage adapter.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/stitchboy24/IMG_0079.jpg

This thing should come will every kit. Frame pictured is a 54...maybe 53.5.

I tried various routings for the FD wire and battery wire...decided on what you see. A few zip tires keeps everything from needlessly floating around.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796483/large.jpg

This is "Junction A" at the headtube. 2 connectors attach to the shifters, and one attaches to the thing under the BB shell. Another zip tie keeps things clean.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796450/large.jpg

Love the fact that Shimano thought to make the connector on "Junction A' clamp to the housing. Nice. Also like how the display attaches to housing w/ 2 small zip ties. Clean.

So there's one wire that feeds from the HT down to the BB. Shimano included some strips of whatever to cover it. Unlike electrical tape, these piece are molded. Nice. Used scotch tape to keep the shifter connector wires attached to the bars. No messy, gooey junk left behind like with e-tape.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796445/large.jpg

The other rather exposed wire comes from the thing under the BB shell and connects to the RD. Black wire...white frame? No sir. Cinched wire to CS w/ zip tie, then wrapped zip tie in white e-tape.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796469/large.jpg

Then covered wire in white e-tape.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796464/large.jpg

You can see the wire passing through what would be a housing stop.

End result is what I consider to be a fairly clean install.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796488/large.jpg

Wiring it up took forever. Adjusting it was very simple. 10mins, maybe.

Put disc rotor bolts into what would be DT housing stops. Need to get one of the bottle cage adapters for the ST bottle cage. I can totally understand why manufacturers are integrating a mounting point for the Di2 battery. I like the idea of mounting it under the DT (a la BH Connect).

Bike, as pictured, weighs in at 16.8lbs. Not the lightest by any means. Hopefully I'll get to ride it one day. Sticker price on the Di2 kit was about $4k. I can very, very easily see this stuff catching off if price comes down. Shifting up front is the best I've experienced, bar none. The rear is good, the front is phenomenal.

Saddle pictured is mine...it'll be swapped for black when Rick gets back into town.

[-dustin]

bottle cage adapter installed...

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs162.snc1/6051_934776393530_7900229_53943931_3764459_n.jpg

edit--

hm, something i guess i didn't mention earlier...

Shimano makes a Di2 specific FD clamp..."specific" because it doesn't have the lip at the top like the regular ones do...

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/img/product/full/s/ssxgxz24.jpg

boss man wanted the bike ready when he got back, which was 2 days after i was handed the frame, one of which I was going to be out of town. So...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31rM50cu2ML._AA280_.jpg

SRAM Red FD clamp.

could've also filed down the shoulder on the Shimano one, but didn't want to spend the time doing that (and because we had sold our last 35mm clamp that morning).

so in the end...this stuff is badass. no denying that. rear shifting is good. front shifting is beautiful. i want it. boss wants me to have it, but i'm still happy with SRAM. the price is a huge turn-off and the only thing keeping me away.

[paulrad9]

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/114796454/large.jpg

$4,000+ and it's made in China? :confused:

[gdw]

Is Shimano offering repair, soldering, classes for the mechanics of the LBS? Seriously, what happens when a wire gets snagged on something and pulled loose? Can it be repaired at a shop or do you have to wait for a replacement to arrive?

[lemonlaug]

People automatically jump to the conclusion that just because they don't understand how something works now, they'll never understand it. I think that's simply a failure of the imagination.

Well I just replaced the video card in my PC this weekend, and I'll be damned if anyone can look at the old broken one and tell you what's wrong with it. I took a Computer Architecture class as an undergrad, and we actually did translate some basic computer code into binary, so I'd consider my understanding of this stuff to be well above average. My point though is, that when you're talking about electronic stuff, at some level you're dealing with a microscopically printed piece of silicon, and there's nothing you can do with it except trash it an replace it. Of course there are also going to be solenoids and other new mechanical pieces, which is fine, I get those, but I'm pretty certain there's a limit to my ability to understand the entire system that starts at microscopic transistors. :bike: All that may not matter to you. Lots of people wear Casio watches without a care in the world.

I've added the Soulcraft book to my reading list.

Glad to hear it. It's a little bit academic at times, very well researched, and occasionally hilarious, it gets lighter and better as it goes, not that it's too long. Although it's hardly likely to incite a riot, I think it's actually quite subversive in light of current social values and trends in education policy. Enjoy!

[Z3c]

Just returned from my first Di2 ride. A few things first though; I have had my bike, a Tarmac SL2 in the box for about 2 weeks and finally had the time to attempt assembly. My thoughts were to see how far I could get and then take it to a shop this week for final assembly.

Dove in and well, frankly, I consider myself to be a mechanical moron and I found Di2 hook up to be very simple. The cables on the frame were already in place as it is a Di2 complete bike. Cable connection was very simple, I read the short instructions and followed them. Nervously installed the battery and tapped a lever. Tap-shift; at first I didn't notice that it had shifted.

So, out on the road; I was able to get in 19 miles on a short loop that I am very familiar with. I have been riding DA since 8 speed and 7900 bikes for the last 5 months. Impressions: fast, immediate, very precise and very quiet. Much less effort required; potentially a relevant amount on long rides. Hoods are very comfy; I have small hands so the smaller diameter is appreciated. That you don't actually move the brake lever means you don't have to consider that when setting the brake pads; you will not accidently engage the brakes when shifting if they are placed close to the rims.

First blush: it is pretty darn impressive. I didn't feel detached from my bike at all; I still have to decide if/when to shift, it is just that the execution of my decision is flawless. My intention is to get a few rides in and then ride a 7900 bike again and see what that tells me..

Scott

[jpw]

What are those pedals doing on that De Rosa?

[Z3c]

What are those pedals doing on that De Rosa?

I would assume that learning electric shifting and clipless pedals was too much at once for him so he decided to take on one at a time.. I bet he has mastered both by now.

Honestly; are you really asking this question? Clearly it is for a test ride after assembly or something along those lines.

[-dustin]

I wanted to take a spin around the block on it before handing it over to my boss.

[TAW]

What are those pedals doing on that De Rosa?

My guess is that this is a shop bike or demo, so you have to put the platforms on it for test riders.

[Bob Ross]

My point though is, that when you're talking about electronic stuff, at some level you're dealing with a microscopically printed piece of silicon, and there's nothing you can do with it except trash it an replace it. in light of current social values and trends in education policy.

I will certainly concede that point. Just seems like the naysayers are throwing their hands up in the air long before the discussions gets to the level of microscopic circuit traces etched in silicon wafers.

My guess is that a good number of us recreational cyclists are also comprehensively if modestly adept at troubleshooting our home computers. I'll be damned if I know what to do when the hard drive ****s the bed (other than call the dealer for a new hard drive), but I can tell the difference between a dead hard drive and an overheating processor, or an misaddressed SCSI ID, or an improperly formatted file name.

If I could get my Di2 troubleshooting skills to a similar level, that would be approximately commensurate with my current aptitude when it comes to good old-fashioned mechanical DuraAce.

[jpw]

Does anyone in the bike industry know if Shimano is going to be supplying secondary pad buttons for the Di2 electronic system that mount on the bar tops?

[BdaGhisallo]

I have seen bar top buttons mounted near the stems of some of the Columbia team bikes, so I would imagine that it'll be something made available to the buying public.

[frenk]

(...) Much less effort required; potentially a relevant amount on long rides.
This brings back what made me skeptical from the beginning. Racers are paying hundreds of dollars for ceramic bearings that (maybe) save a handful of Joules. Electrical shifting saves you (maybe) a couple of Joules, but it's not reducing drag, it's "free" energy supplied by a battery.

This could be an interesting experiment: line up for a race with a funky looking rear hub and tell people that it's a micro motor but that it only adds 10 Joules/day, so it makes no difference. Then proceed to win the race and see if anybody complains.

ok ok I'm just jealous as I'll never afford Di2 :D

[steelrider]

Pppp-PASS! That is a Rube Goldberg, if ever there was one!

[Nil Else]

I am through and though campy guy having 8 bikes w/ campy 10s but I am definitely interested for my next set up.

[Z3c]

Update on Di2: I have about 8 rides on it now, ranging from 18-55 miles or so. This stuff simply works. I find myself really liking the light touch and immediate shifting. Very quiet. The front shifting is beyond what I would have thought possible. It has been flawless.

I continue to find the rider interface to be the same really; I still have to decide to shift and take action. The action is just a tad easier and results in a quick(!), quiet shift each time.

I will continue to post my observations as I spend more time on it.

Scott

[jpw]

Nice one Scott. Keep 'em comin'!

[Z3c]

Update; about 700 miles and I still have a green charge light. Still flawless. Has not been ridden in any sort of foul weather so nothing to report there.
Continues to impress. Front shifting is still astounding. In general I am really amazed with the performance. It has made me reach for the same bike for over a month now..

Questions welcomed,

Scott

[Jack Brunk]

totally agree with scott on how good this group is. It was covered in sand all weekend in Death Valley and the stuff just flat out worked perfectly.

[Ti Designs]

I've now tried Di2 on two bikes, it may very well work perfectly, but would I ever notice? I've never noticed a problem with my Dura-Ace 9-speed shifting, and we're talking about 100,000 miles of testing. OK, I probably don't shift as often as you do, and I'm not as picky about my equipment as most people on this forum are. But it seems to be the cost of getting used to a different system, and the cost of the system iteself has very little return value to me. But then I'm also on Cinelli crit bars from the 80's 'cause I like what I like and I don't want to switch...

[Jack Brunk]

Timan,

It may not be for everyone and it sounds like your happy with what you have. It is a fantastic group and there are a few folks that will be very happy with it's performance. Thank goodness there are choices for everyone.

[Z3c]

In sync with Jack, I'm not saying anything is wrong with any grouppo, just posting my opinions of Di2. Clearly not everyone will see the value; just like cars and a lot of other things, older models will get the job done and the "value" of newer models will never cease to be debated.

Ride safe,

Scott

[salem]

For me, personally, one of the graces of the bicycle for transportation is that the ride, the wind, and gravity, are the only sources of power. Then again, I'm a curmudgeon. To those who go electronic, enjoy it, but it isn't for me.

[whforrest]

After I saw the new photos of campy super record 11 I knew my destiny. Although I like the look of the electronic shifters, in my humble opinion Campy still looks better. The electronic dura ace rear der and cranks, brakes just don't inspire me.

However I can envision electronic shifting with campy down the road. They furloughed the project to develop 11 speed.

kudos to shimano for great product, how can you go wrong? The price though is too much to justify.

happy cycling, bill

[OtayBW]

Sorry - I haven't read this whole thread, but...I tried the Di2 last week and was impressed as anyone here. It worked and it worked really well. I'm not convinced that battery life or recharging will be a big issue. I also wonder if this will change the face of bicycling in ~10 years (or less). Despite my favorable impression, I can only say that I hope not.

I'm enough of a stick-in-the-mud to appreciate classic lines and the elegance and simplicity of this beautiful mechanical thing we ride. Sometimes technology is just not an added benefit for me.

[Z3c]

Minor update:

Reached 1453 miles on the first charge and still had a green light. Decided to go ahead and charge it as I had a long ride on the agenda. Took ~50 mins to charge..

Still working like a champ..

Scott

[Jack Brunk]

Minor update:

Reached 1453 miles on the first charge and still had a green light. Decided to go ahead and charge it as I had a long ride on the agenda. Took ~50 mins to charge..

Still working like a champ..

Scott
I've got Scott's back. Mine has been so flawless it's scary.