It's time for an anti-eBay Revolution!

[tsarpepe]

I am one of the many folks who are fed up with the unholy alliance of eBay and PayPal. I've had enough! The last straw is the rule that PayPal will hold payments to sellers for up to 21 days if you do not have at least 100 sales. This so called policy, which is nothing but the dirtiest way to make money (by investing the millions of "on-hold" dollars that they get at no interest), is a slap in the face for the small seller--precisely the person for whom eBay was initially created. This is just the last confirmation that eBay/PayPal has become an unscrupulous mafia with no concern for the people that allow them to exist. Previously, it was the idiotic rule that sellers can leave no negative feedback, as well as the hike in the seller's fees. This has been discussed at length all over the internet. For the latest wave of outrage, see:

http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/01/31/ebay-fee-hike-sparks-seller-rebellion/

For much, much more, visit eBay's own Community forum.

The case is clear:

selling out to the big companies
using their monopoly to extort exorbitant fees
making PayPal mandatory, so that additional money can be extorted
not allowing negative feedback from sellers, which allows (some) buyers to engage in penalty-free blackmail
the same regulation means that (some) buyers have no responsibility for completing payments for items they've won
as a result of the preceding, eBay becomes for (some) buyers like a computer game, which you can play for the fun of it
under the banner of "safety" they've disallowed all alternative methods of payment (checks, MOs; what's so unsafe about getting a check, waiting for it to clear, and then sending the item?)
absolutely attrocious customer service, with eBay and PayPal competing for which will be more indifferent to their customers (I'd have to give the current lead to PayPal)


The young studs who started PayPal liked to call themselves the "PayPal mafia". The company has lived up to the name!

I am not writing all of this just to vent (although venting I am). I think we could do something about it, here at the Serotta forum. People everywhere are looking for alternatives to eBay. Small sites are beginning to crop up. Initially, it will be restricted venues, usually dedicated to one particular kind of products, and bringing together groups of people united by their interest in these. At this forum we have a potentially very large group of people that could actually make a difference in creating an alternative venue for buying and selling bikes and biking gear. All we need is commitment. I know that many folks here are staying away from eBay on principle. Others are not. I was one of the latter. Now I have done my last eBay listing. When it is over, my relationship with them will be over as well.

Who is with me?

[Jeff N.]

I must agree with you. I hate'em as much as the next guy, but they're basically the only game in town. I hate the fees. I hate the Paypal rule. But if I absolutely have to sell something...well...until there's a better alternative, I'm gonna have to use them. Jeff N. :crap:

[tsarpepe]

If no one ever does anything, they will remain the only game in town. The game goes on because of us.

[caleb]

There's no need to use eBay, and there hasn't been for years. See the "Classifieds" section here for an example of a better way.

[torquer]

I'm no friend of either the bay or PP, but 21 days for payment isn't bad, all things considered. Try getting better terms than 30, 60 or even 90 days from big corporations when you do contract work for them.

I realize it's an added burden, especially for small sellers, but not that out of line with how the rest of the economy operates.

But if there are better options out there, go for it!

[paulrad9]

There's no need to use eBay, and there hasn't been for years. See the "Classifieds" section here for an example of a better way.

True, but it's one place to sell stuff, otherwise I have to use this forum to sell bike stuff, a camera forum to sell camera stuff, computer place to sell computer stuff, etc. Further, I can get to more potential buyers on ebay by using just one post.

[sg8357]

What is the fun of being a monopoly unless you can exploit the customer ?

Just think after Mastercard buys Paypal, your credit score will be tied to your ebay seller feedback, happy happy joy joy. Scratch on that derailer you sold last week??, 10 points off the old credit score.

[tsarpepe]

It would be great, of course, if someone has built a gigantic site just like eBay, with the same traffic, the same features, the same number of sellers and buyers (imported from outer space!), but without any of the defects. Then everyone who's complaining about eBay, could just move over. Well, it doesn't work that way! If you are dissatisfied, you have to do something about it, and bite the bullet for a while. If you all continue to enjoy the small comforts of eBay and look past their attrocious behavior, they will continue to thrive and no alternative will have a chance to grow and compete with them.

[ti_boi]

I agree in some ways...but PAYPAL has backed me many times on purchases that I made that were complete garbage...wrong...etc. Their buyer protection is tops. Besides...they were smart enough to come up with a great idea and ran with it. :cool:

[GuyGadois]

I went on a bit of an eBay selling binge over the last month. I was quite pleased. Yeah, they do have a monopoly on the online auction and payment area but, for me, all my auctions did well. The price I paid was what I agreed to use their service.

It will be hard for any competitor to crrep up eBays way as they need a mass amount of people visiting and a mass amount of shoppers. eBay has both. Amazon may be the closest thing to compete with eBay.

Until there is a viable alternative I will use eBay.

-GG-

[MattTuck]

It will be hard for any competitor to crrep up eBays way as they need a mass amount of people visiting and a mass amount of shoppers. eBay has both. Amazon may be the closest thing to compete with eBay.

Until there is a viable alternative I will use eBay.

-GG-

for local, craigslist



just sayin'

[flydhest]

out of curiosity, will the revolution be televised?

[RPS]

I know that many folks here are staying away from eBay on principle. Others are not. I was one of the latter. Now I have done my last eBay listing. When it is over, my relationship with them will be over as well.

Who is with me?
I've used E-Bay a few times and have had no problems, although I refuse to sign up for Paypal because the Terms and Conditions are so one-sided against the user.

If E-Bay makes Paypal mandatory then I guess I won't use E-Bay at all.

[alancw3]

i think it's interesting that ebay bought 25 or 27% of craigslist several years ago. craisglist actually had to institute a lawsuit against ebay for sealing information on how craigslist operates. not sure if the suit was ever settled. at the time i heard that ebay bought an interest in craigslist i thought wow they would certainly love to take over craigslist. i for one love craigslist. i have sold countless items on cl many of which i would have just eventually thrown away.

i see this as part of a larger problem of BIG BUSINESS taking over more and more of our lives. the other day i got a letter from american express telling me that they were raising the interest rate in their credit cards. no effect to me as i always pay when the bill comes in. what erked me was the way they worked the letter. like they were actually doing the cardholders a favor by raising the interest rate.

i don't profess to know the answer but i do beieve that BIG BUSINESS has gotten bigger particularly with all the stimulus packages offered by BIG GOVERNMENT. no one is accountable for their mistakes or actions anymore.

i guess the way to deal with it is just not use their services anymore. nothing new here just that people seem less likely to do that nowadays and i think BIG BUSINESS knows it. years ago when banks were being bought, sold and resold i advocated closing out your account in the bank if it was sold. you see how far that got.

[tsarpepe]

out of curiosity, will the revolution be televised?

Yes, for people who sit on the couch and wait for the world to change without them, there will be TV coverage of the final crash. In the meantime, there is extensive web coverage:

http://www.myspace.com/boycottebay

[1centaur]

This is not about right and wrong, it's about power. eBay is in business to make money, and all their rule changes are tweaks designed to increase what they make. They make money in part to drive the stock price. If what they do reaches too far, it will hurt the stock price. That will get their attention.

So, if you want to win the power struggle, use your Net community organizing skills to build critical mass while finding alternative auction sites. If you can find one that's a jack of all trades that can become your recommended site for the community you have organized, you might be able to leverage your way to preferential terms. As you build momentum, find a way to deliver your message to Wall Street analysts. Get to talk to local TV and newspaper consumer reporters with a consistent message: eBay's rules and fees trample the little guy. Get Consumer Reports to do a story. Get in the AARP newsletter. Right or wrong, if you keep repeating that theme the message will stick. You either have the numbers or you don't, but as you can see in this thread, you'd better offer alternatives that are easy and good enough, or your community will disperse and churn and you will never gain power.

[EPOJoe]

Power seller here, with over 4000 positive feedbacks. Been on eBay since ‘96. I’ve avoided using PayPal by getting my own merchant credit card account, but it’s getting harder all the time bucking against eBay’s “system”. Yes, they blow, and they have no concern for the seller, as they know the sellers are stuck with whatever crap they dish out. There’s no real alternative. Until some big outfit like Microsoft or Google decides to dump big advertising bucks into an alternative, we have no options. We’ve tried boycotts before and eBay just laughs them off.

[rugbysecondrow]

Just a couple of points:

Profit is their game. How much markup is on everything else we purchase willfully and just accept as the cost of doing business. Some people skirt the system with higher shipping costs etc, but I think that actually detract buyers.

I also think that also the cost of business rises, so too does the price of goods on e bay and they will price themselves out of the game. It is not a given that Ebay has the best prices, sometimes they are quite a bit more. Craigslist already has taken a big chunk of the private sellers/buyers away unless it is a more specialty niche like bikes, cameras etc.

Why I use ebay is access. I pay the fees for access to the millions of people worldwide who might want my widget that locally there may only be 5 people who give a crap. As a buyer, I like the access to such a wide variety of goods. I also think that Ebay helps lower costs as a competitor for large online retailers.

Lastly, not all venues are created equally. I use Ebay for some items, Craigslist for some and I post some on Forums like this one. Just like you don't use a hammer to fix everything, sometimes you need to use a screwdriver...that also applies to your venue for transactions.

I have tried using other services, but they are just inferior. Yahoo had an auction and classifieds service years ago that crapped out. Ebay just works.

[cmg]

you can use Google checkout to pay for items instead of paypal and if you sell on eBay the seller can accept payments with google checkout and pay lower fees.

[67-59]

It's all about the numbers -- eBay provides sellers access to way more buyers than other sites, and can therefore get away with charging pretty much what they want. I'm sure it's frustrating to a seller when you pay higher fees or wait longer for your money...but remember that the alternative on smaller sites is that you might not sell your widget at all.

As for the notion that the members of this site could really make a difference, the numbers down at the bottom of the screen seem to indicate that there are 5,211 registered members here. I'm pretty sure every one of us could stop buying and selling on eBay right now, and they wouldn't even notice.

Count me as one who will be watching on TV....