How do I polish titanium on my ottrot?

[whforrest]

wet sand 2000 grit is working good, but how do i polish the titianium which had paint over it on the head tube?
Thanks in advance! Bill

Ps, serotta told me that I couldn't get the carbon back to it's natural finish once it was painted over. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I wet sanded with 800 grit on the clear coat and paint and the carbon looks great.

[Jeff N.]

Are you talking "mirror bright" polish or "brushed" polish? For the brushed look, Scotchbrite works best, at least in my experience. Jeff N.

[whforrest]

the wet sanding of 2000 grit seems to create closer to mirror look, what is the standard serotta finish? which grit would be closest to scotch brite? again, thanks, bill

[tsarpepe]

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14751605

[palincss]

I have a polished Ti tandem, a Santana Sovereign. I scratched the seat tube something terrible installing a chain keeper. Simichrome polished it right out, and in very little time, too.

[WadePatton]

to get a mirror finish you'll have to finish up with a buffer and compound.

most folks are cut out for that kind of work, but you go bro.

[abqhudson]

Scotch Brite "gray" for std finish.

For shine - it's easy - Mothers "Mag & Aluminum Polish" and a very little rubbing with a rag. It will get as shiny as you want.

[Blue Jays]

If putting a mirror polish on the frame, might as well send it off to be clearcoated!

[Louis]

Doesn't make any sense to me to polish Ti to a mirror finish. One of the benefits of that material is that you just ride it and don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Huge scratches, sure, clean them up, but leave the mirror-finishes to the chrome boys.

[Brian Smith]

the wet sanding of 2000 grit seems to create closer to mirror look, what is the standard serotta finish? which grit would be closest to scotch brite? again, thanks, bill

I have polished many ti frames at Serotta, and I know the process well.
Tell me - is it your intention to make it look like it came from the factory that way ($) or rather to make it look the best that it can for a certain, relatively low, amount of money? Scotchbrite pads are not expensive, but are only a small portion of the needed supplies for a factory finish.

I am of the opinion that you probably can make your refinished bike look very nice, but if you are trying to make it look like it previously color painted bike came from the factory as a clear carbon / polished ti order, you certainly have your work cut out for you, to say the least.

[cody.wms]

i went to Lowes/ Home Depot and got a bunch of the steel wools, but I cant remember the correspondiong grit grades. I went up to the extra extra fine and then finished with mothers mag polish.

It looked fine, but always had swirl marks.

Also, it generates lots of heat. Litespeed does/ used to put their frames on the alignment table after polishing.

I have my litespeed finished with the green Scotchbrite pads (worn down "industrial" ones, which are about the same as the non=worn out household ones), which has a brushed finish. Hit it with Pledge occassionally and it looks good. Much less maintenance.

[happycampyer]

Don't polish too hard, you already got rid of one of the t's :)

[happycampyer]

I have polished many ti frames at Serotta, and I know the process well.
Tell me - is it your intention to make it look like it came from the factory that way ($) or rather to make it look the best that it can for a certain, relatively low, amount of money? Scotchbrite pads are not expensive, but are only a small portion of the needed supplies for a factory finish.

I am of the opinion that you probably can make your refinished bike look very nice, but if you are trying to make it look like it previously color painted bike came from the factory as a clear carbon / polished ti order, you certainly have your work cut out for you, to say the least.I bought a demo Ottrott with an Inferno paint scheme and when I had it refinished, I was told that the factory would only put a matte finish on the previously painted ti. I didn't really question the policy since I wanted the ti to be matte anyway (and had the polished ti sections turned to matte), but I'm curious what the reason is?

[Ti Designs]

I've polished a bit of titanium over the years. (www.ti-designs.com - get it?) The first process is not unlike sanding out wood to a fine finish. The final two steps are done with the buffer, either the big motor or the flex shaft tool. The first is using a somewhat abrasive compound and a stiff wheel. I use either stainless compound or Zam with a sewn sesal wheel. The final buffing is done with a soft cotton wheel. Which compound you use depends on the titanium alloy and the type of finish you're looking for. I have 14 types of polishing compound, most of them are out of stock at my jeweler's supply place 11 months of the year. Mother's mag polish and a soft cotton rag works pretty well if you don't mind a lot of work and getting your hands dirty.

I refinished a Merlin NewsBoy with etched pinstripes to the point you would swear it was a chrome steel frame - I so wish I had pictures of that bike. Somewhere there are pictures of the IF show bike from a few years ago with the titanium ruby stone setting on the head tube.

[dekindy]

I have polished many ti frames at Serotta, and I know the process well.
Tell me - is it your intention to make it look like it came from the factory that way ($) or rather to make it look the best that it can for a certain, relatively low, amount of money? Scotchbrite pads are not expensive, but are only a small portion of the needed supplies for a factory finish.

I am of the opinion that you probably can make your refinished bike look very nice, but if you are trying to make it look like it previously color painted bike came from the factory as a clear carbon / polished ti order, you certainly have your work cut out for you, to say the least.

Could you explain in detail the full factory process and then an abbreviated version for us at home to do a reasonable restoration to our polished titanium.

I got my frame from the Serotta Garage and was initially thinking that I wanted a shiny finish so it was fine with me. Like another responder said, I think if I were ordering new I would go with a matte finish because it is more practical. If I understand correctly I could have my polished fininsh changed to matte very easily by the Serotta factory. How much does this cost? Can I do it myself and what is that procedure if I can?

[Jeff N.]

I bought a demo Ottrott with an Inferno paint scheme and when I had it refinished, I was told that the factory would only put a matte finish on the previously painted ti. I didn't really question the policy since I wanted the ti to be matte anyway (and had the polished ti sections turned to matte), but I'm curious what the reason is?Because it was likely matte blasted under the paint to allow the primer/paint to hold on well. That's usually how it's done, unless you're lucky like I was with a Seven that I stripped to bare Ti (it turned out to be brushed-finish underneath, thank goodness; obviously painted by an amateur). Once it's blasted for paint adherence, that's how it's gotta be from then on, or so I was told by d'man, Joe Bell. Jeff N.

[happycampyer]

Because it was likely matte blasted under the paint to allow the primer/paint to hold on well. That's usually how it's done, unless you're lucky like I was with a Seven that I stripped to bare Ti (it turned out to be brushed-finish underneath, thank goodness; obviously painted by an amateur). Once it's blasted for paint adherence, that's how it's gotta be from then on, or so I was told by d'man, Joe Bell. Jeff N.That makes sense to a certain extent, but I know that Satellite had Spectum Powderworks create "polished decals" on one of his Moots, which required masking off the bead-blasted finish and polishing it. I realize the more typical way to get a polished decal on a matte background is to mask it off before blasting it, but since Moots doesn't do that, it had to be done in reverse. I can't imagine that the process of polishing out the matte finish would remove enough material for it to compromise the tube (it's just the surface, and even cable rub will polish a matte finish), so perhaps it's a time/cost thing?

It's not unlike what the OP mentioned about stripping the carbon—I was told the same thing, that the painted carbon could only be repainted, and couldn't be stripped back to nude carbon and clear coated. I know that other companies are willing to do this (and the OP is doing it on his own). I never spoke directly to anyone at the factory, so the explanation I got was second-hand through the dealer. My understanding was that Serotta doesn't want to refinish something where the result is anything less than 100% of an original factory finish, and on the carbon, they can't guarantee that. I totally respect that.

But back to the ti, it doesn't make as much sense to me. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me because I got exactly what I wanted and the paint/finish is magnificent, and worth every penny. It's really more curiosity than anything, since someone brought the topic up.

[whforrest]

There is no way that I have compromised the carbon I used a reaaly high grit and wet sanded, and the ti will be brushed for simplicity can't spend the 1300 dollars that serotta needed to redo the frame thanks for the posts

[happycampyer]

There is no way that I have compromised the carbon I used a reaaly high grit and wet sanded, and the ti will be brushed for simplicity can't spend the 1300 dollars that serotta needed to redo the frame thanks for the postsSorry, I should have been clearer about my comment re the carbon. FWIU, the issue with refinishing the carbon is cosmetic, i.e., when they paint the carbon, the paint penetrates into the top weave, so when they go to remove the paint, they can't guarantee that the top weave will look the way it would have if it had never been painted.

[whforrest]

good points. i had researched this before i touched the paint over the carbon and with a very high grit you can remove the clear coat, paint and primer. (most of the tips i got from the automotive websites regarding dealing with carbon.) cosmetically the carbon looks perfect.

Now serotta may not want to want to work with carbon for the following reasons:
1) hours spend to properly remove paint off carbon. And restoring titanium finish after paint is removed. (i have done both) so far it looks pretty damn good. (after 30 hour of work hand sanding)

2) and/or I have comprimised the structural integrity of my frame. (which i would be shocked and find hard to believe)
3) I have heard (purely speculation) that serotta doesn't necessarily want to get in the refinishing business so to speak.

4) this is my second serotta and i have always been a advertisment for them out here in nor cal, and i can say without question that the staff at serotta is absolutely professional and has been very helpful. With all the amazing frame builders out there and it can be difficult to choose a new frame manufacturer, despite serotta is a best of breed company.

THANK YOU FOR THIS WONDERFUL FORUM. IT'S GREAT INTERACTING WITH FELLOW PASSIONATE CYCLISTS!

HAPPY CYCLING, BILL

[Pete Serotta]

Because it was likely matte blasted under the paint to allow the primer/paint to hold on well. That's usually how it's done, unless you're lucky like I was with a Seven that I stripped to bare Ti (it turned out to be brushed-finish underneath, thank goodness; obviously painted by an amateur). Once it's blasted for paint adherence, that's how it's gotta be from then on, or so I was told by d'man, Joe Bell. Jeff N.

There are different ti materials ie straight gauge, double or triple butted, and also the ways that they are prepped to take paint verses polished only....

All these are variables that affect everything from finish, brightness, and in rare cases material thickness on certain parts of the tube (especially if it was sand blasted to get best paint adherence and then further sanded to get rid of paint and make tube smooth for natural polish look. Additionally there are variables of the type riding, miles on frame, weight of rider, etx that could come into play (and this is before a lawyer puts a spin on it, if a frame cracks at some point in its life.

There are many opinions of what can be done and not be done with carbon and ti in regard to the tubes on a SEROTTA frame BUT even with the friends I have at SEROTTA, I could not get a painted ti back to satin finish/polished finish. Additionally in regard to painted carbon they would not "strip" and clear coat for me. Not all carbon is created equal using the same fiber, glues, paint, etc.....this even applies more when things are made "extremely " light

(I trust Serotta views and opinions on this for they do it with SEROTTA tubing as a living.)

I acknowledge that it is our frame and we can do whatever we want with our frame, but I assure you Serotta is in the business of having a happy customer and bringing in refinish business. Additionally they want to support a life time warranty on the frame to the original owner so they are somewhat more cautious on a refinish.

They do not make straight gauge thicker ti tubing so I can not tell you their opinion on this.