how do you brake?

[allegretto]

since the steering thread was so informative and certainly helped me understand bike-things, i would like to pose a different question;

how do you use your brakes? how much front, how much rear? one harder than the other? only one or the other?

i realize that there are many different situations at play here, so i wont try to cover everything.

but let's say;

- a casual stop at a sign or light
- a panic stop, with and without a way out to the side
- descending a slope
- poor traction circumstances
- in a race when the guy in front of you/line/pack hits them

thanks in advance

[ergott]

I brake as late as possible when it counts.

All other times I don't pay that much attention other than I do use both.

In the rain I routinely feather the brakes to dry them and get the grit out, even more so when riding with others.

[regularguy412]

I try to set my brakes up so the back brake 'comes in' a little before the front,, given that I apply them both at the same time.

To get maximum braking,eg., panic stops, apply both brakes until the back tire just barely begins to lose traction (this assumes braking in a straight line), then let off the FRONT brake just slightly. This will allow the rear to carry maximum load and get maximum deceleration.

When braking going downhill, I usually try to slide my butt back off the back of the saddle -- something mountain bikers do routinely.

When braking in a corner, be aware that the act of braking will 'stand the bike up' and send you in a straight line toward the outside of the turn -- that's provided that both tires don't lose traction and skid.

When braking in the wet, sooner is better than later. And like Ergott said: feather to clean the rims and let the deceleration come in more gradually.

Mike in AR:beer:

[palincss]

To get maximum braking,eg., panic stops, apply both brakes until the back tire just barely begins to lose traction (this assumes braking in a straight line), then let off the FRONT brake just slightly. This will allow the rear to carry maximum load and get maximum deceleration.


Mike, I think you'll find you get more braking power with the front than the rear, because of weight transfer. Sheldon's got an article on the subject (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html).

[regularguy412]

Mike, I think you'll find you get more braking power with the front than the rear, because of weight transfer. Sheldon's got an article on the subject (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html).

Agreed. That's the way most brakes work. But if you want to get the most out of BOTH your tires and not lose control of the rear end, lighten up on the front a little. One would also NOT want to do a faceplant by using too much front brake. YMMV, of course.

Mike in AR:beer:

Note: Rear skid is especially noticeable on less than ideal surfaces, such as pavement with light sand, wet, etc. That's when one needs to use the grip from both tires.

[allegretto]

great replies fellas

actually it was Sheldon Brown's article that got me thinking

in auto/motorcycle racing braking is different of course, but tire physics is similar. the thing about Brown's advice that stuck with me is;

he suggests that max braking is full front. further says something like 95% of good riders use the front brake.

the problem is that a tire only has so much traction no matter what. if you take nearly all that traction in braking, you can forget about to turning the bike, hence you have no control over direction and cannot avoid something directly in front of you.

secondly, take the other situation, you're in a turn descending or going along, full chat in a bend. as noted, braking, especially with the front will cause the bike to stand up and go very wide in direct proportion to your braking effort.

empirically i have found that it seems to me like the rear brake is far safer for control of the overall vehicle and strong front braking should be used only when you absolutely have to stop right now.

other's thought appreciated...

[choke]

On the flats I typically use both brakes. On a descent I seldom touch the back brake as it's too easy to lock it up.

the problem is that a tire only has so much traction no matter what. if you take nearly all that traction in braking, you can forget about to turning the bike, hence you have no control over direction and cannot avoid something directly in front of you.
The thing is you should do all your braking before you enter the turn. If you have to brake while turning you're already in trouble.

[ergott]

You are supposed to brake before the turn for the reason you describe.

-Eric

[allegretto]

no disagreement. if you read about the Great Countersteering Debate i said that's what you do on a motorcycle... ideally. but sometimes

a) something shows up unexpectedly, or

b) it's a blind decreasing radius and you you have to scrub off speed without losing control

[Acotts]

I try to mimic anti-lock brakes - all or nothing - as fast as i can.

The pelaton loves it. Especially in crits and high speed pace lines.

I also like to stay in front of the group in crits and really slam the brakes before turns to ensure the safety of my fellow racers behind me. You can't have them taking those turns to fast, many of them dont understand counter-steering. Its for their own good. Plus, nothing gets the heart going like a mini sprint after every turn to get the pace back up.

[allegretto]

I try to mimic anti-lock brakes - all or nothing - as fast as i can.

The pelaton loves it. Especially in crits and high speed pace lines.

I also like to stay in front of the group in crits and really slam the brakes before turns to ensure the safety of my fellow racers behind me. You can't have them taking those turns to fast, many of them dont understand counter-steering. Its for their own good. Plus, nothing gets the heart going like a mini sprint after every turn to get the pace back up.

:D :D :D

[Acotts]

:D :D :D



Edit: This deserves its own thread.

[Ti Designs]

further says something like 95% of good riders use the front brake.


And the other 5% of the good riders are on the track...

[cmg]

a casual stop at a sign or light . Front brakes first, then rear


- a panic stop, with and without a way out to the side. Both front and rear brakes then lift off front


- descending a slope. Rear brake first, modulate, then front

- poor traction circumstances. Rear brake first, then front


- in a race when the guy in front of you/line/pack hits them. front brake try to avoid crash.

This provided i have time to think about what i'm doing. otherwise it's avoid the crash/pot hole/dog-cat/water bottle/beer can/gravel .

[bikinchris]

In a turn, the front brake will cause understeer and the rear brake will cause oversteer. Too much of either brake will cause loss of control.

Using both brakes will keep your bike more stable, but see the next paragraph.

When braking too hard, like in a panic stop, your rear wheel skidding will warn you when you are braking beyond your limit. Pushing your weight back behind the saddle (and as low as you can) will keep more weight on the rear tire, but also feathering (slightly releasing) the front brake will keep you from losing control and skidding out or flying over the bars. That's another reason that you should use both brakes at all times.
The Sheldon Brown article is a good one in many respects, but the bike is more stable when you use both brakes.

[false_Aest]

HOLY HELL!!!

I wonder if squirrels get together online and talk about the different techniques they use to bury their nuts.

[WadePatton]

HOLY HELL!!!

I wonder if squirrels get together online and talk about the different techniques they use to bury their nuts.

well, it's not the burying-but the finding that separates fat squirrels from skinny ones. and it _is_ a hoot to watch them bury stuff. like that one in the park in florida years ago. he dug a hole exactly half as big as his pine cone. stomped and packed and stomped trying to cover it up---hey you shoulda been there.

braking--holy hell! (i repeat) you'd need formula one data acquisition system to see what i do (and i'd like that). it just happens...once you learn to use you front brake as much as practical...you gotter licked. ;)

and i'll throw this out there...that off-road riding, 'cross or mountain, go a long ways to teaching one about braking _and_ steering atmo. with generally less severe consequences if you get it wrong. out there you can washout in a corner and stay up. you can slide a tire without going down...

[toaster]

Brake with the front mostly. Use both to slow, front only for maximum braking power, feather or modulate rear brake to take off extra speed late in a corner.

When using the rear, I like to pedal and rear brake at the same time if possible to avoid locking or skidding. By pedaling against the rear brake you can keep the wheel turning or at least get a sense of what it's doing.

[Dave]

One problem with most brands of brakes (not Campy) is the front and rear are built with the same braking power. That causes the rear to lock up easily, since far less braking force is needed for the rear tire. A locked tire will cause a loss of control (front or rear). Campy rear brakes have far less power and they are much harder to lock up. I always use both brakes for maximumn deceleration and and don't let up on either lever unless I get some indication of tire lock up.

Brake before a turn, but if you need a little extra braking, some people advocate "trail braking" with the rear only so steering control is not lost due to a front wheel lockup. I still tend to use both locking a wheel with Campy brakes takes a fair amount of effort. I'd rather have to use a lot of force than have touchy brakes that can lock up a tire easily.