How can you really be sure...

[dd74]

...that your bike fits well?

I know this is a very broad and generic question, and I apologize for that. But I'm just curious what some may answer.

Thanks.

[goonster]

You can't, until you do.

[Richard]

Ask people on the internet, they know.

[GuyGadois]

it feels comfortable and doesn't hurt on longer rides.

[flydhest]

it feels comfortable and doesn't hurt on longer rides.

If you don't hurt on longer rides, you're not going hard enough. :p

I think you'd have to define "hurt" for this to be helpful.

[RPS]

Two things in life you can be sure of……….and bike fit isn’t one of them.

I’d aim for good enough and then go out for an enjoyable nice ride.

[bhungerford]

a few points:

1. it will always be changing as you become more/less fit/flexible
2. i would say fits well would mean that it is at the balance point between maximum power and minimizing pain (not the good pain, but the back, neck, hand, etc pain) while also handling well as you define that.
3. point 2 will be different depending on how you ride, example: if you are a charity riding guy/girl you'll probably lean more towards comfort than max power, if you're a TT guy/girl you're going to deal with a bunch of pain to max your power, stage racer - some where in the middle.


and yes, i agree, you will just know when its right.

and finally, keep a relationship with a fitter you trust, go back to them and get refit for every bike (even if you're buying it from another LBS or the internet) and also go back and verify/tweak your position on your current bike every once and awhile (annually, biannually, depends on how you as a cyclist are changing)

[goonster]

define "hurt"
You can't hold up your head and have no sensation in your outer two fingers or your ****.

[Steve-O]

I think the question is valid given how many fitting questions turn up on Internet forums.

Does a good fit mean riding a hard century and having no lingering pain?
Can we get more power out of our position yet still remain comfortable?

For those of us that have never popped for a formal fit how would we even know if we had a poor fit on the bike.

[bhungerford]

how do you know if you have a poor fit on a bike without getting a fit?

the body is very adaptable, if you ride enough you'll get to a pretty good fit eventually, but you have to be willing to self adjust your contact points. the danger is seriously hurting yourself in that process.

If you've never had a fit, get one with your next bike purchase, most places will credit you that fee towards the bike, so you really got the fit for free, and you actually learned a lot about yourself and our fun sport :D

[joelh]

I had a professional fitting for the first time a couple of weeks ago and it was the very first time that I have had any assurance that my bike fits. I have owned everything from a 53 to a 58 and was never sure where I was. Turns out a 56 is pretty close, thank goodness that is what I am currently riding.

[fiamme red]

You can't hold up your head and have no sensation in your outer two fingers or your ****.That describes a lot of randonneurs on their return from Brest to Paris. :)

[ChipRI]

I think the best you can do is get a professional fit based on your measurements/dimensions at the beginning. This will get you on the right frame and in the range of optimum comfort and efficiency.

After that, IMHO, there are too many changing variables to guarantee the "perfect fit" day-to-day. And no need to obsess about it either. When we were kids we spent all our riding hours on bikes that were fitted by eye and never gave it another thought. We adapted to the bike.

Now this is not to say that when your body tells you that you're not comfortable or when you begin to feel pain from riding at your normal pace/distance, that you shouldn't look to make a compensating adjustment.

Just that overall I'd rather spend my time enjoying the ride.

[dd74]

So if our bodies are fluid, so to speak -- or constantly changing, what does this say about the custom build when one is measured for a frame? Does that make custom frames a less viable option for the perfect fit?

[goonster]

That describes a lot of randonneurs on their return from Brest to Paris. :)
My point exactly. They should pursue a better fit.

[flickwet]

...that your bike fits well?

I know this is a very broad and generic question, and I apologize for that. But I'm just curious what some may answer.

Thanks.
Experiment and experience, Over a period of time whether you have had a fitting or not we all make minor adjustments that improve our positions, when those adjustments stop and you can ride for a long period of time then maybe your bike fits.

[bnewt07]

Since I had a proper bike fitting I have done several thousand miles on the two bikes which resulted and have never fiddled with a thing. They are just 'right'. My weight feels balanced, I feel good uphill and down, in the saddle and out. I have never wondered about a longer stem, fewer spacers or tweaking the saddle.

As for things hurting-sure I ache after a hard hilly ride, but everything kinda hurts in proportion!

[JeffS]

Experiment and experience, Over a period of time whether you have had a fitting or not we all make minor adjustments that improve our positions, when those adjustments stop and you can ride for a long period of time then maybe your bike fits.


We all should make minor adjustments, but I get the feeling that some people ride what the bike shop gave them until they get a new bike (and fit) and they repeat the process.

How many people do you see who have been riding for years, had multiple bikes, and are still sizing by "size" rather than actual measurements?

---------

My advice would be to either a) own and ride as many different bikes as possible. You'll learn something about fit from each one or b) buy one bike and ride it forever. That way, you'll never know that it doesn't fit you.

[Acotts]

If It Does Not Fit, Must You Acquit?:

[scottcw2]

I had a professional fit done at Signature Cycles in Manhattan several years ago. I kept the results of that fit and duplicate that position on all of my bikes. The only thing subject to change is stem length (+/- 1cm) and saddle-to-bar drop depending on my flexibility.

[Kevan]

It'll fit someone.

[bluto]

I still don't think that professional "fitting" is exact science. I think that they can get you to within a certain range and from there you should tweak it yourself to find what feels right.

I was fit by very knowledgeable, Serotta certified specialist and he comepltey changed my position on the bike. While i do give him credit for pointing me in the right direction, i don't think that he (or any other fitter) could've gotten me to where I'm at now.

[scottcw2]

I still don't think that professional "fitting" is exact science. I think that they can get you to within a certain range and from there you should tweak it yourself to find what feels right.

I was fit by very knowledgeable, Serotta certified specialist and he comepltey changed my position on the bike. While i do give him credit for pointing me in the right direction, i don't think that he (or any other fitter) could've gotten me to where I'm at now.

I disagree based on my experience, but Paul did not make any drastic adjustments. A slight tweak to saddle height, setback, stem length and bar drop. I was pretty close when I came in.

I think that there is an acceptable "range" of adjustment for each person. They will be comfortable within that range. The problems arise when fit is significantly off.

[RPS]

I think that there is an acceptable "range" of adjustment for each person. They will be comfortable within that range.And for each frame too IMO. The key in buying a new frame is to make sure they overlap enough to permit fine tuning of contact points in either direction.

[link]

What's a good fit? Well ask yourself these things first:

What are your cycling goals? The fit for a sprinter specialist is different than that of a rando specialist. The list of different cycling goals can be long and varied as well as their correlating fits.

Asses your body's flexibility, core strength and general overall fitness. A very fit person will support their muscular skeletal system differently than that of a less fit person.

Be honest with these assesments and then get thee to a very experienced fitter and share that information.
Making sure that your bike fit has foom for adjustment will allow you to adjust your fit as your body and goals change.

[riceburner]

Interesting point someone told me was that the bike that fits today, may not really be the bike that fits you tomorrow (or like 12+ months) later. As potentially you may lose a lot of weight, gain fitness and gain flexibility, your fitting needs may change, of course, different stems, saddles, bars, posts, cranks, etc. may be changed to accomodate this potentially...

[1centaur]

...that your bike fits well?

I know this is a very broad and generic question, and I apologize for that. But I'm just curious what some may answer.

Thanks.

How can you be really sure your car seat is far enough from the wheel and the right height and has the right tilt? Some balance of comfort and efficiency of movement so that you can drive a long time and not think about your position, right? It's like that.

[Ray]

I don't think you can ever be SURE. Comes down to it, there's not much in life you can be really certain about.

But I'd say if you love to ride as much as ever but you get a bike that kills your lust for new bikes (for anything other than purely aesthetic reasons) and that lust doesn't resurrect for a few years, you're probably as close as you need to be. I've had a couple of bikes that I could do century plus rides without any pain beyond my legs, so I guess they fit well enough, but I was always curious about what else was possible. Then I got a custom that you all are sick of hearing about and haven't had a spec of bike lust since. Oh, I wouldn't mind having a really beautiful steel bike that rides exactly like the ti custom I dig so much. But I'd almost be afraid to try for fear that the ride wouldn't be quite exactly the same. It's that good. So I'm as certain as I need to be. For another example of that phenomena, see Len's recent thread about his two year old Sachs.

Its just a gut feel, I guess.

-Ray

[palincss]

If you don't hurt on longer rides, you're not going hard enough. :p

I think you'd have to define "hurt" for this to be helpful.

You'd also have to define "long" for this to be meaningful.

[palincss]

You can't hold up your head and have no sensation in your outer two fingers or your ****.

Good heavens! What have you been up to?

[MattTuck]

Stand over the top tube. If there's a little space between your groin and the top tube, it fits.

[Ahneida Ride]

I think you'd have to define "hurt" for this to be helpful.
'
How is this ? .... Hurt is when you muscles are exhausted ...
But you neck, back, knees and posterior are hanging in there.

Now that is good pain ... good hurt .... and it's worth the ride...
It's the pain that makes ya want to go out and ride more !!!

If you only experience good hurt ... then your bike works for you ...

Howd I do Dr. Fly ? :beer:

[JohnHemlock]

I have bought 2 stock frames from a thousand miles away and sort of winged the build via email. Took both bikes out of the box, added pedals, have never adusted anything, and they ride just fine for a hundred miles.

About to dip my toe in the world of the custom build, not because I require custom geo but because I think it will be fun. But I almost have a fear that a conscious attempt to "fit" me will result in something going haywire!

[dd74]

Stand over the top tube. If there's a little space between your groin and the top tube, it fits.
Some say that's a false presumption of a well-fitting frame. First of all, you really rarely stand over the top tube. If in the least, that's not what the bike is made for. Second, if the top tube hits the boys (or girls) this can be mitigated by leaning the frame while stopped. Third, stem, seat post, crank length, depth in the handlebar's curve can as well be adjusted for fit.

[happycampyer]

Some say that's a false presumption of a well-fitting frame. First of all, you really rarely stand over the top tube. If in the least, that's not what the bike is made for. Second, if the top tube hits the boys (or girls) this can be mitigated by leaning the frame while stopped. Third, stem, seat post, crank length, depth in the handlebar's curve can as well be adjusted for fit.I'll go out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure MattTuck was joking. You could add to his list KOPS, your saddle height is x% of you inseam length, when in the drops a plumb line dropped from your nose touches the center of the handlebar and the front hub is obscured by the handlebar, etc.

[MattTuck]

I'll go out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure MattTuck was joking. You could add to his list KOPS, your saddle height is x% of you inseam length, when in the drops a plumb line dropped from your nose touches the center of the handlebar and the front hub is obscured by the handlebar, etc.


Yes. Sorry for not using the rolling eyes. My response was indeed tongue in cheek. Unfortunately, many shops still prefer these "rules of thumb" than taking the time to actually fit a person.... or, they charge hundreds for the privilege of a fit.

[Ti Designs]

Based on most definitions here, my sofa fits me perfectly.


I have one bike that seems to fit me pretty well. I can ride all day long without discomfort, it climbs well, corners like it's on rails, keeps up with me in sprints and the colors match my shoes. I have one bike that doesn't fit at all, my hips rock when I pedal, the bars are too far away and way too low, and my quads always burn when I ride it. They're the same bike, the first one is when I ride as I've learned, the other is when I'm trying to figure out how other people ride, so I'm sitting on the saddle all wrong, supporting my weight on the bars and wishing I had stupid-low gears to get up the slightest hill.

[Acotts]

Based on most definitions here, my sofa fits me perfectly.


I have one bike that seems to fit me pretty well. I can ride all day long without discomfort, it climbs well, corners like it's on rails, keeps up with me in sprints and the colors match my shoes. I have one bike that doesn't fit at all, my hips rock when I pedal, the bars are too far away and way too low, and my quads always burn when I ride it. They're the same bike, the first one is when I ride as I've learned, the other is when I'm trying to figure out how other people ride, so I'm sitting on the saddle all wrong, supporting my weight on the bars and wishing I had stupid-low gears to get up the slightest hill.


I think a two hour session on the trainer with a bike tool will get you damn close.

It seems on the road I can ignore things. On the trainer, every single issue is magnified.

Put in Braveheart, get yer bike tool, and get angry. Thats my advice. If you dont notice the bike too much, then you are prolly fine.

I hate the trainer.

[MattTuck]

Apparently, there's a high percentage of literal interpretation, as sarcasm doesn't seem to be getting recognized.

Ti's point, as I understand it, is that fit is dependent on pedaling technique and form.

[Acotts]

^^
I find I like my stem to be higher then my saddle when I bike with my knees sticking out.

[Ti Designs]

I find I like my stem to be higher then my saddle when I bike with my knees sticking out.


In very general terms, there are three types of people who come in for fittings. There are those who come in like a sponge, looking to soak up everything I know - those are the people I love working with. There are the people who just want to be put in the perfect cycling position. Clearly they have read and bought into the advertising for our fitting program. And then there are the people who are sure they know as much as any fitter, and they know what works for them. They want to do the fit themselves, the fitter just turns the wrench once in a while. Oddly enough, these are the people who come back a number of times with complaints. I have heard the statement above, almost word for word - I'm not kidding.

[William]

In the absence of pain (not the good push yourself kind), you won't know for sure until your on a bike that "fits".

Yes that's a vague answer, but the point is a GOOD fitter will get you in the ball park, a builder will get you onto the field with a custom, but you will need to tweak to get your self into the game. That takes time and experience.




William

[Ti Designs]

Put in Braveheart, get yer bike tool, and get angry.


You watch Braveheart on the trainer???


There are so few things I can be sure of these days, but here's one of them: William's bike does NOT fit me.

[William]

There are so few things I can be sure of these days, but here's one of them: William's bike does NOT fit me.

My bike would be painful for you to ride......and, painful for me to watch. ;)





William

[fiamme red]

My bike would be painful for you to ride......and, painful for me to watch. ;)He'd look like a football humping a monkey. :D

[William]

He'd look like a football humping a monkey. :D



LOL!! :D




William

[roguedog]

In the absence of pain (not the good push yourself kind), you won't know for sure until your on a bike that "fits".

Yes that's a vague answer, but the point is a GOOD fitter will get you in the ball park, a builder will get you onto the field with a custom, but you will need to tweak to get your self into the game. That takes time and experience.

William

I like this. Nice summary. :beer:

It also sorta answers my question/confusion around.. "what if different fitters, have different opinions about your fit." :confused:

[dd74]

Yes. Sorry for not using the rolling eyes. My response was indeed tongue in cheek.
No worries. :cool:

Unfortunately, many shops still prefer these "rules of thumb" than taking the time to actually fit a person.... or, they charge hundreds for the privilege of a fit.
Which is probably why I disliked my first (Trek) LeMond. I still remember how the salesman hinted as an aside to me, "One more sale, and I'm salesman of the month." (wink-wink, nudge-nudge).

In short, it was about the sale for him, not whether or not a person could actually ride the bicycle any length of time beyond in the parking lot and down the block. :rolleyes: