contador tactics ???

[dancinkozmo]

im no cycling tactical genius, but am I mistaken thinking Contador basically told his team "F%^k You" with his actions today ?

[fiamme red]

One of the moderators might want to add "SPOILER" to the thread title.

[Lance Armstrong]

im no cycling tactical genius, but am I mistaken thinking Contador basically told his team "F%^k You" with his actions today ?


As you have no doubt learned from the other moves I made, and others make along the way, all of the direction comes from the team cars. We like the radios because it keeps us from having to think. You see, Alberto did what Johan said to do. I hope he unleashes me again like he did yesterday, if only for show. There are only a few days left for me to 1) show my old self, or 2) show my old self.

[Elefantino]

No me importa un carajo.

[dancinkozmo]

One of the moderators might want to add "SPOILER" to the thread title.

sorry...my bad

[link]

Si Elephantino

Y, el OP no entiende un carajo

Astana objetivo numero uno: Win the Tour. That means putting time on as many of the other team's GC riders. Wiggins will be a threat in the TT. So you must add time to Wiggin's overall to protect Astana's chances of the win.

If Kloden could hang onto the acceleration that AC and the Schleck duo put down, great. He couldn't hang. The race goes on.

[dekindy]

They seemed to be talking to each other regularly. Maybe Kloden indicated he wanted to attack to put more time on Wiggins and then could not respond like he thought he could?

Contador kept looking back so that indicates definite concern IMHO.

[JeffS]

Personally, I think it was a gift that he had to sit in the pack yesterday while lance got his **** together.

I'm not sure what he's supposed to do at this point. His team can't hang in the climbs, and it's a waste for him to sit back.

[harlond]

It's true that AC was able to put time into Wiggins and Nibali, but the cost was knocking his own guys off the podium, putting two Schlecks on it, and depriving his team of a chance at the stage win. And had he not put Kloeden in difficulty, they might still have put as much time into Wiggins as AC and the Schlecks did. If there was going to be an attack, should have come from Kloeden, though he probably wasn't able. Terrible idea, and I sure doubt it came from the car.

EDIT: I read that AC told Eurosport that he asked Kloeden before the attack if Kloeden could follow, and Kloeden said he could, the idea being to get Kloeden the stage win. Clearly, when AC got away and saw that Kloeden wasn't there, he stopped working. So I can accept that AC wasn't being a bad teammate. But if they wanted Kloeden to win the stage, they didn't need to attack, all they had to do is get Kloeden to the line with the Schlecks, neither of whom can sprint worth a lick. And if they thought an attack was necessary, they should have sent Kloeden.

So if what AC says is true, still bad tactics in my view, but AC at least wasn't being a selfish teammate.

[johnnymossville]

Contador made a selfish move, the Schlecks covered it, Astana lost a couple places on the podium in Paris. It was a bonehead move, but who cares it's not life or death.

[link]

I would bet dollars to donuts that if Alberto hadn't attacked, then Andy certainly would have. Andy needed to put time on Bradley just as much as Alberto did.

Net sum is zero.

If I'm wrong, I ain't gonna eat 'dem fat pills. :D

[Ozz]

I would bet dollars to donuts that if Alberto hadn't attacked, then Andy certainly would have. Andy needed to put time on Bradley just as much as Alberto did.

Net sum is zero.
+1

AC probably should have waited to respond to an attack, but it was coming and the result would have ended up the same.

Maybe he wanted to have more time on Wiggens and was not getting the call from the car to go....he probably wanted a little more time on Lance as well. ;)

[goonster]

I would bet dollars to donuts that if Alberto hadn't attacked, then Andy certainly would have. Andy needed to put time on Bradley just as much as Alberto did.
+1

The Schlecks were doing their ride today. With, or without any Astanas on their wheel.

[DukeHorn]

I thought the team goal was to win the damn thing not worry about stage wins or other podium spots.

oh wait, that's only the goal if you're US Postal or Discovery. I guess Astana and Contrador get held to a different standard :crap:

[paczki]

As you have no doubt learned from the other moves I made, and others make along the way, all of the direction comes from the team cars. We like the radios because it keeps us from having to think. You see, Alberto did what Johan said to do. I hope he unleashes me again like he did yesterday, if only for show. There are only a few days left for me to 1) show my old self, or 2) show my old self.

I look forward to you showing your old self.

[Elefantino]

Kloden told Contador to attack if he wanted to, that he had nothing left.

I take it all back.

[Elefantino]

Lance doesn't know about it, apparently. From the Twit:

Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well

St 17 done. Tough day! Got caught out on some attacks on the col de romme but managed ok from behind. Had some cramps @ the end. No fun!!about 2 hours ago from UberTwitter

RT @LeviLeipheimer: If Andreas finishes 4th in GC by less than 2' from 3rd, we know where he lost it.

I don't take it all back.

[William]

Andy to Frank.....

"Holy Schleck!!!! Contador just dropped Kloden for us!!!! SWEET!!!!"







William

[dancinkozmo]

all of the direction comes from the team cars. We like the radios because it keeps us from having to think. You see, Alberto did what Johan said to do.

sorry lance, dont think so.....

This from Bruyneel:

"That attack from Contador 3km from the top, that wasn’t really… I had advised not to go" Bruyneel said. "He didn’t need to go. He didn’t need to attack. It was clear the two Schleck brothers would go full gas to the finish. I told him you don’t have to attack to win the Tour today, because the difference was there with Wiggins. It’s a bit of a pity that Andreas couldn’t hang on, because I think we could have been first, second and third on GC, and instead we are first, fourth and fifth."


...my guess is that AC sensed the pace of his group was slowing, and didnt want to risk a repeat of the previous day where LA bridged and brought everyone along, so he took matters into his own hands...

[William]

Lance - To the question about AC's attack dropping Kloden.....

"Ahhhhhhh........(face scrunching), I'm going to bite my tongue on that one."






William

[1centaur]

AC went and was surprised that Kloeden could not follow. He almost instantly shut off the gas (Phil viewed it as the Schlecks clawing their way back..uh, no). The question is, why was he surprised? Language barrier? And if Bruyneel is saying in those soothing tones of his "no need to attack today, Alberto," does Alberto hear that as "don't attack, Alberto"? I bet AC thought Kloden had something left, was bored following Schleck wheels, and said "let's go" at which point Bruyneel was screaming in his ear "no, no, no!" Being impetuous is not the saying as flipping the bird at teammates. If it was all about him, he would not have shut off the gas and made that big show of checking behind him 8 or 10 times. He does not have the tactical mind of Bruyneel or LA, but few do. Makes the race more interesting, right? He'll be more exciting next year OFF the JB plan, which is not the same as more likely to win - there's a reason the LA years were boringly formulaic.

[Elefantino]

AC went and was surprised that Kloeden could not follow. He almost instantly shut off the gas (Phil viewed it as the Schlecks clawing their way back..uh, no). The question is, why was he surprised? Language barrier? And if Bruyneel is saying in those soothing tones of his "no need to attack today, Alberto," does Alberto hear that as "don't attack, Alberto"? I bet AC thought Kloden had something left, was bored following Schleck wheels, and said "let's go" at which point Bruyneel was screaming in his ear "no, no, no!" Being impetuous is not the saying as flipping the bird at teammates. If it was all about him, he would not have shut off the gas and made that big show of checking behind him 8 or 10 times. He does not have the tactical mind of Bruyneel or LA, but few do. Makes the race more interesting, right? He'll be more exciting next year OFF the JB plan, which is not the same as more likely to win - there's a reason the LA years were boringly formulaic.
Word[s].

[acorn_user]

there's a reason the LA years were boringly formulaic.

2003 was not boringly formulaic. It was thrilling! Beloki deserved a lot of credit for that though.

Also, Lance didn't really drag that many people with him with the bridge move last time out. The pace in the lead group slowed down a lot soon after he arrived, and then a bunch of the people who had tried to follow his acceleration showed up (like Uran and Vandevelde).

[KJMUNC]

So 'Berto is clearly the fastest uphill when it counts. LA is still pretty competitive for his age/time-off/collarbone, yadayadayada.

So I've been thinking: if Contador doesn't have the JB program, the dominant TTT team performance, and a superstart cast around him to get him to the steeps in a good position, where does he end up? Sure he's still going to be a major threat, but I can see how LA thinks he still has a shot next year. Changing all that has made him successful is bound to have some impact. For LA it's just SSDTdF.

[Lifelover]

AC's attack was either a Big F U or he is an idiot.

Let's hope he is an idiot. Screwing over your team when you already have the win wrap up is a move that will haunt his career.

He deserves to win and will. He just does not come off as being that bright.

[cmg]

tactics? who cares.... If kloden wants a podium position let him fight for it, it's not the leaders responsibility to give it to him. Contrador needs to put time on all contenders even his own team mates who he may not trust. today's burst was just an attempt to reduce the contenders, he couldn't wait for Kloden. Sure waiting for the Schlecks to attack would have made more sense but to a guy who can hang with them why not try to crack them first. Contrador is on a team built for Lance and Lance doesn't want to retire. bonehead moves keeps things interesting, shows passion, action before logic. Stage 20 is going to be interesting.

[erector]

I know there's many LA-haters here, but the only LA I hate on is the Lakers. I think this year's tour is one of the most exciting in years. Did Contador go out on his own? Yeah, but he also put his pedals where his mouth is, keeping the same time over #2ASchleck, and distancing himself even more from Wiggins. AND Lance kicked ass all day, the smart way, matching Frank's attacks, and dropping Garmin like a bad habit near the end. That kind of experience with the GC tour racing is invaluable.

Go Lance! Go Alberto! Go Andreas! Go Schlecks! and for the love of God, I hope that Jens is okay (mentally and physically)

[frenk]

I don't understand all the hate towards Contador. Kloeden lost 2'30 in the last few kilometers, so he was really finished. It's very likely that him, AC and JB knew that and took a decision. We don't know what they said on the radio so we are just speculating.


As for Lance: keep in mind that after winning in Verbier AC was "welcomed" in the team hotel with dark faces of disappointment. Not really what you expect after you win a key stage in a spectacular way -not the usual champagne.

At this point it's clear his team helps him just because they are paid to do so. It's business from their part: why should Contador give them back gifts or a special treatment?

If Lance admits defeat and works for AC then he should shut up and work for him forgetting his own ego like any good domestique (but we all know it's not going to happen). Anybody remembers Giuseppe Guerini?
Otherwise he's just another enemy, he will be treated as such and should not cry and complain on twitter/tv/etc...
Easy!

[indyrider]

Man I can stand high paid athletes that whine & cry :crap:

T.O.(T. Owens) = LA

[Climb01742]

sadly lost in all the astana soap opera is how well frank and andy rode. they both left everything out on the road and what a great exploit to have with your brother. to see how happy andy was for frank to win, and to hear his post-race interview, it was cool to see a genuine positive human emotion. imagine being their dad, a former racer, watching yesterday's stage? man, the feelings he must have had. thor and andy+frank helped make yesterday a great racing day and a great day for good guys, IMO.

[William]

sadly lost in all the astana soap opera is how well frank and andy rode. they both left everything out on the road and what a great exploit to have with your brother. to see how happy andy was for frank to win, and to hear his post-race interview, it was cool to see a genuine positive human emotion. imagine being their dad, a former racer, watching yesterday's stage? man, the feelings he must have had. thor and andy+frank helped make yesterday a great racing day and a great day for good guys, IMO.


Can't argue with that at all. :beer:

They all did what they needed to do and it was great to watch unfold.






William

[keno]

Alberto being Alberto - the Manny Ramirez of pro cycling. Ability galore, but **** for brains. While there is no "I" in team, you have the makings of a "me".

Aside: Rumor has it that LA will form his own team next year and JB's contract with Astana ends this year. I wonder if he remakes the club of strong boys and whether AC gets invited if it happens. Seems to me that AC is committed to Astana through 2010. Jus' thinnin'.

keno

[1centaur]

AC would not want to work for LA, and the Kazakhs are going to want a big buy-out for the last year of the contract. How soon can Phinney junior be ready?

[cadence90]

Lance being Lance - the Manny Ramirez of pro cycling. Ability galore, and also great at using the system and the media to promote his own ego.
While there is no "I" in team, you have the makings of a "me".

I mean, really: if you change "Lance" to "Lamce" and then drop the "c", what do you have?
Give me an "L"!!! Give me an "A"!!! Give me an...!!!
Can I get a witness?!?!?!

Aside: FACT has it that LA will form his own team next year and JB's contract with Astana ends this year. I wonder if he remakes the club of strong boys (i.e. old cronies) and whether AC gets invited if it happens.
NOT!!!
To paraphrase Sly Stone: "Hate's thicker than the mud...".

Seems to me that AC is committed to Astana through 2010.
However: Commitment/schmommitment.....

keno
Fixed your post. :D

[Mshue]

sadly lost in all the astana soap opera is how well frank and andy rode. they both left everything out on the road and what a great exploit to have with your brother. to see how happy andy was for frank to win, and to hear his post-race interview, it was cool to see a genuine positive human emotion. imagine being their dad, a former racer, watching yesterday's stage? man, the feelings he must have had. thor and andy+frank helped make yesterday a great racing day and a great day for good guys, IMO.

Great point, Climb. How cool would it be to do such a great ride with your brother. Good on them.

[93legendti]

It was indeed a great story.

I wonder if the brothers missed an opportunity to two-time AC and subject him to repeated attacks in an effort to win the Tour.

[cadence90]

It was indeed a great story.

I wonder if the brothers missed an opportunity to two-time AC and subject him to repeated attacks in an effort to win the Tour.
They had their opportunity, took it, and Contador resisted with complete competence and valore.

Great guys, cool story, but AC's the better rider, period.

[fourflys]

AC would not want to work for LA, and the Kazakhs are going to want a big buy-out for the last year of the contract. How soon can Phinney junior be ready?

The problem is if AC doesn't go on an LA team (which is bound to be strong) or Saxo Bank, he's going to end up another Cadel Evans.... lots of talent, but no supporting cast...

[CPP]

The problem is if AC doesn't go on an LA team (which is bound to be strong) or Saxo Bank, he's going to end up another Cadel Evans.... lots of talent, but no supporting cast...

There are a lot of very very good Spanish riders that would be happy to ride for AC.

[jbrainin]

[never mind]