Steel frame builder thoughts [Archive]

Hardlyrob

07-20-2009, 01:51 PM

Personally I would go to a one man shop for a custom steel sled.

Consider Dave Kirk - admittedly I'm biased since Dave built me the best bike I've ever ridden.

Also: Brian Bayliss, Peter Mooney, Llewellen Custom Bicycles, Engin, Vendetta, Mike Zanconato, Spooky, DeSalvo, Coconino Cycles, Curt Goodrich, Hampsten Cycles, Carl Strong - apologies if I've missed anyone...

I have no doubt that Serotta, IF or Land Shark could all build you a great bike, but working with one of these small and highly skilled builders is a great experience, and part of what custom is all about.

Good Luck, and let us know what you end up doing.

Rob

fiamme red

07-20-2009, 01:54 PM

I have no doubt that Serotta, IF or Land Shark could all build you a great bike, but working with one of these small and highly skilled builders is a great experience, and part of what custom is all about.Landshark is a one-man shop. John Slawta does all the framebuilding and painting.

Hardlyrob

07-20-2009, 02:01 PM

Landshark is a one-man shop. John Slawta does all the framebuilding and painting.

Sorry - my bad...

Rob

Steelhead

07-20-2009, 02:08 PM

I have a custom CDA and love it. I considered a lot of builders and chose Serotta and haven't regretted it. :)

jroden

07-20-2009, 02:13 PM

I have a Hot Tubes bike and like it a lot

Len J

07-20-2009, 02:13 PM

Just please, if you go with Landshark.....don't go for ione of those butt ugly paintjobs. I implore you.

len

nahtnoj

07-20-2009, 02:20 PM

One of these things is not like the other...

I've never been a Land Shark fan. Maybe my East Coast elitism, or perhaps that most of the ones I see have (IMO) ugly paint. Some of the bikes in his gallery are very cool though.

In any case, Land Shark is a very different company from IF and Serotta. Much smaller, different construction techniques, etc.

joelh

07-20-2009, 02:32 PM

I guess that I am in the minority, but I like Land Shark paint jobs. It is kind of nice to see someone doing something different. I think from what I have read, John came from a background as an artist, which is probably why he marches to a different beat, look wise

MattTuck

07-20-2009, 02:41 PM

Anyone ever considered Dick Drummond?

his normal site seems to be back up. here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drummondcycles.com%2F%3Fq%3Ds ervices%2Fcustom-frames&ei=ksdkSvDSCeGFmQfqiL2lDw&usg=AFQjCNEYxAXEAz-orhn2RNgM9LVEJPSq9w&sig2=UuLHIkBwNGxHiJXx7r68KQ)

this is the google cached version. here. (http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:BFzmr7C0piwJ:www.drummondcycles.com/%3Fq%3Dservices/custom-frames+drummond+custom+cycles&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

Bruce K

07-20-2009, 03:02 PM

Don't forget Kelly Bedford / K. Bedford Customs !!!

BK

slates

07-20-2009, 03:21 PM

Thank you for all the input.

Any pics of your bikes would be greatly appreciated. I'm still in my research phase and trying to pic a frame builder and components.

c77barlage

07-20-2009, 03:23 PM

I recently purchased an IF Steel Crown Jewel and have been riding it this season. I was fitted by a Serotta fit specialist and was real happy with the process. The finished product is a joy to ride.

I do agree, purchasing from a one man shop is intriguing.

Hardlyrob

07-20-2009, 03:43 PM

Here's mine (http://www.kirkframeworks.com/photogallery13.htm) number 130.

Rob

Lifelover

07-20-2009, 03:45 PM

Any of them can make a great bike. It just depends on you being able to communicate what you want.

It really depends on what you want (non ride wise) out of the bike.

If you want to have the only frame of that make you ever see on the road, get the shark. If you want to have a bike that screams "old school" race quality get the Serotta. If you want to be the guy with the new age kick A$$ brand, go with I.F.

Call each company and talk to them. Maybe one phone call will make it click for you.

ATMO brazing looks much cleaner than welding.

I'm a big Landshark fan and I ride a touring bike that John made. Most stable bike I have ever ridden. Than again, touring bikes should be stable. Mine is not branded Landshark. It was a GVH house brand and has a single color paint job. Surprisingly, I have some issues with the paint. If I had paid anywhere near full price (I paid 1/3 of retail) I would be sending it back.

However, I would not hesitate to order another one directly from him. If I ever do go custom he will be at the top of my list.

All that said, I would be hesitant to order a Landshark if I did not have a very specific paint scheme in mind. I would NOT leave it up to him. I have talked to him directly and he will paint as wild or conservative as you like.

Make some phone calls and let us know what you decide. Keep it fun. It's just a bike.

Likes2ridefar

07-20-2009, 04:31 PM

I got an IF Crown jewel at the beginning of this year. I love it. It's the first custom made road frame I've owned. I got the steel fork as well, and it's a great riding fork and pretty light. I also have an edge 2.0 fork which is what I use most the time. I think it rides even nicer and is noticeably stiffer.

I opted for the IF over the Serotta mainly because it's a lot cheaper. I had also considered Land Shark because I like his paint jobs and hear nothing but praise for his work. He also was very nice dealing with over the phone. I ended up with the IF because I wanted an experienced fitter to size me up instead of working with only measurements and past bikes through phone and email.

If I had the cash I would've gone for a 953 or Ti frame because I don't like worrying about the scratching of paint and wet weather - already some knicks here and there on my crown jewel although I've patched them up with some touch up car paint matched to my color. After I got over the first few blemishes I've toughened up and am going to ride the %#$@# out of the frame regardless the weather!

David Kirk

07-20-2009, 04:46 PM

At 6'6", 215 lbs you need a frame built with a tubeset selected for your size and weight. Whomever you choose to do the work be sure they aren't just using the standard tubeset kit for you.

Serotta is one of the bigger small companies that still mixes tubesets to get the right stiffness and durability for the rider so I'd strongly consider a Serotta.

Dave

MilanoTom

07-20-2009, 04:52 PM

As you've read, there is no shortage of fine builders. Where are you located? If you're close to a builder, you can get measured in person and talk face to face with the builder about your needs (and wants).

Regards,
Tom

cadence90

07-20-2009, 04:59 PM

What MilanoTom said.
Go to someone nearby, if you can.
The list is nearly endless.

That said, if I were your size I'd look hard at a Steve Rex Ultra-Fillet (http://www.rexcycles.com/) frame....

rnhood

07-20-2009, 05:40 PM

I believe John Slawta is about your size so, I suspect he knows a thing or two about building bikes for big fellows. In addition, his paint jobs are unique and striking. And his frames are not overpriced imho. He would be my first choice.

Marcusaurelius

07-20-2009, 05:59 PM

If I was going for TIG frame I would go for a Serotta if I was looking at lugged, I would look at Bilenky.

Lincoln

07-20-2009, 06:04 PM

Thank you for all the input.

Any pics of your bikes would be greatly appreciated. I'm still in my research phase and trying to pic a frame builder and components.

tons of pictures already in here in the Custom Bike and Serotta galleries :beer:

Pete Serotta

07-20-2009, 06:08 PM

I agree with David, (and he knows FAR more than I :) ), based on your height and weight that a frame needs to be designed around you.

Builders that I have personal experience (I have one of their bikes). They are listed in alphabetical order for they all make OUTSTANDING products :) and "lustful" products

Bedford Customs

Curt Goodrich

Kirk Frameworks

Serotta CDA

Some other builders that I like and respect but have not ridden their frames:

Tom Kellogg, Hampsten Bikes, Carl Strong,

Others that would be in that group but that have very long waits are:

Richard Sachs, Peter Wiegle, Vanilla.

Have fun shopping and talk to as many builders as you can....then pick the one you like the best... All the above will deliver an outstanding bike!!!

CNY rider

07-20-2009, 06:58 PM

Also consider what your lead time is for getting the bicycle.
If you are riding a salvaged WalMart special, held together with duct tape, and REALLY REALLY need your new bike in 3 months then definitely go with Serotta or one of the other similar companies.
If you have bikes you already really like, and can afford to wait for your new one because it's a luxury upgrade then consider a one man shop.
My experience with custom from one man shops is that you will wait longer than you originally anticipated, will experience some moments of real frustration and angst along the way, and will then end up with something you love and cherish.

ADD

07-20-2009, 07:53 PM

Might want to consider Della Santa too. Gorgeous, good deals and a nice legacy.

Walter

07-20-2009, 08:47 PM

Might want to consider Della Santa too. Gorgeous, good deals and a nice legacy.

There are many good builders. I had a great experience with Roland Della Santa a couple of years ago. Great bike, superb Jim Allen paint, short delivery time, and a really fair price. Roland was a pleasure to work with.

ds97a

07-20-2009, 09:09 PM

Well...
I am 6'6" and when i purchased my CDA I was 215. The CDA is very comfortable but, definitely took some tweaking to get right.

The fitter is almost everything in this process. The frame can be perfect but, if the components aren't dialed in, it may as well be a walm@rt bike.

It took 3-6 months to get my bike set up (so that it was comfortable) and we are still tweaking 2 years later but, whoa, what a comfortable ride it is!

I currently have it set up for Tri's but, will convert it back into a road bike next year (when I purchase a dedicated Tri bike.)

The fit and design process were great. It is a Kelly Bedford production (when he was still with Serotta) and I was able to tour the factory and meet the folks that were building my bike.

Overall, it was (and continues to be) a stellar experience! It got to be quite pricey but at our size, there aren't a lot of 'off the shelf' options, and for my 2 cents (actually substantially more) a custom bike and comfortable ride make it all worthwhile.

Good luck with your decision. I personally LOVE my Serotta CDA built for a 6'6" guy!

My Serotta (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=545690&postcount=4)

-Dan

nervexpro55

07-20-2009, 10:29 PM

I know this is a Serotta forum, but I would like any input on the following three steel builders. Thank you.

Considering custom steel from Serotta (CDA/Fierte), IF (crown jewel), Land Shark.

I'm 6'6", 215lbs, long legs/arms with a short torso.
I have two custom Della Santa frames and what he does for the money nobody can touch. Also Chris Kvale offers alot for the money compared to other builders my next custom will be done by Chris. http://www.dellasanta.com/
http://www.chriskvalecycles.com/home.html

rustychain

07-21-2009, 06:15 AM

Buy local or go with a builder that your fitter has a good relationship with. I am very happy with the 953 tubes on my bike. My other steel bike is 853 and rides nice but is noticeably heavier and I feel the need to use frame-saver once a year to prevent internal rust. It also dents far more easy then the 953. Paint is cool but not the main thing for me as fit, quality and ride qualities win out. I suspect all my steel frames will get a respray at some point just to repair normal wear anyway. You do not mention what type of riding the bike is for but that could also effect your choice of builders. Some construction styles weigh more and some offer less options with geometry. Going with a single person shop can also be a two edge sword. If things go well they go very well but if things go bad...........prepare for a long wait. The best deals come from the up and coming builders but you take a risk with possible resale value. Zinn BTW looks to be somewhat of a specialist in building frames for tall riders. I have however no experience with him personally

William

07-21-2009, 07:03 AM

I�m another 6� 6�, 255 pound guy and I�ve had customs built up from Serotta (2) and Mike Zanconato (1). Both did a great job in choosing tub sets for my height, weight, riding style, and power output. Aesthetically they were all top notch fillet brazed rigs that were beautiful to behold. The difference in the experiences was my locality to Mike who I was able to go to his shop and be observed first hand riding and getting measured up as well as conversing first hand in what I was looking for. My first recommendation (which echoes what some have already said) is to go with someone you can deal with first hand and in person.

All the builders mentioned can build you a fine steed. We all have our biases. Landsharks are cool. Serotta and iF also make great rigs. Yamaguchi, Spectrum, Kelly Bedford etc�.all very hot. But in considering another road frame, I likely see another Zanc in my future.

William

joelh

07-21-2009, 07:19 AM

What is the general consensus on Waterford? They appear to do all of their builds to custom spec.

William

07-21-2009, 07:21 AM

What is the general consensus on Waterford? They appear to do all of their builds to custom spec.

Very nice quality builder.

William

John M

07-21-2009, 07:55 AM

What is the general consensus on Waterford? They appear to do all of their builds to custom spec.

Waterford makes nice bikes--either custom or stock geometry. If I was lookin at a Waterford and wanted to stay on a budget, I'd consider Gunnar.

I used to see them more when I lived in the midwest. Out here in Seattle, not so many, but there are a few good builders here and it is close to Portland.

mister

07-21-2009, 08:49 AM

there are so many choices it almost blows my mind.
zankanato, goodrich, davidson, IF, serotta, landshark, kirk, della santa, yamaguchi, nobilette....so on and so forth, do lots of browsing. flickr, galleries on forums, general google searches figure out what you want because it can get pretty overwhelming if you rush yourself.

you didn't mention what type of bike you are looking for btw...i'd guess a fast bike based on the three builders you chose at first.

i'm happy with my davidson that i just got a few months ago. fit is good (although i pretty much knew what i needed, Bill agreed and he had also met me before so he knew how i was built), finish (paint and lugwork) is good. rides great. lead time was very reasonable and his communication was good and quick.
http://serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59425&page=3

jroden

07-21-2009, 09:06 AM

here's my axe:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/pelham.jpg

Bringing home part of the course:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/cobbs4.jpg

resting

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/newbike001.jpg

William

07-21-2009, 09:13 AM

slates

07-21-2009, 09:33 AM

rockdude

07-21-2009, 10:11 AM

One of the great masters is Mark Nobilette. He builds the customs for Rene Herse, Zinn, Rivendell and has done well at NAHBS under his own name. With almost 40 years under his belt, there is not much he doesn't know or know how to do. I think he considers one of his special areas of knowelge is building for larger riders. He's not the best at marketing but his builds are second to none.

mister

07-21-2009, 10:16 AM

nobilette apprenticed with eisentraut.
i just got a GT team frame that nobilette built. nice work and the bike built up pretty damn light. probably gonna get him to build a fork for it since original is gone.

there is a huge nobilette on ebay right now. something like 73cm...

William

07-21-2009, 10:17 AM

Thanks again...great thread.

The general use of the bike will be for shorter-faster rides for some fun and vigorous exercise. I have two young boys and won't be putting any 100km anytime in the foreseeable future. I would like to maybe participate in some shorter racing down the road.

I live in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm not aware of any builders in the area. We have a Serotta and an IF dealer in town. If I went with the Land Shark it would be through Lee at Dream Bikes.

Here's a link to a thread I stated a while back on "Local Builders". Who's within a 100 mile radius or so....

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=28034&highlight=Local+builders

A lot of builders represented there.

William

fiamme red

07-21-2009, 10:25 AM

I live in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm not aware of any builders in the area. We have a Serotta and an IF dealer in town. If I went with the Land Shark it would be through Lee at Dream Bikes.Don Walker is in Indianapolis.

http://donwalkercycles.com/ROAD.html

th_boone

07-21-2009, 10:44 AM

....or, a 953 SSR. ;)

Acotts

07-21-2009, 11:19 AM

Kinda out of the blue, but i have been crushing on Rock Lobster of late.

i think its a cross thing.

Pete Serotta

07-21-2009, 11:38 AM

there are none better that her and her husband!!!

Thanks again...great thread.

The general use of the bike will be for shorter-faster rides for some fun and vigorous exercise. I have two young boys and won't be putting any 100km anytime in the foreseeable future. I would like to maybe participate in some shorter racing down the road.

I live in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm not aware of any builders in the area. We have a Serotta and an IF dealer in town. If I went with the Land Shark it would be through Lee at Dream Bikes.

slates

07-21-2009, 11:46 AM

there are none better that her and her husband!!!

She definitely knows her stuff. I bent her ear for about 45 minutes one Saturday. I know the differences in most of these would not be noticable for me, so frame and fit price are definetly a factor. I have to get all the other gear as well.

David Kirk

07-21-2009, 12:08 PM

....or, a 953 SSR. ;)

No offense but I'd be hard presses to think of a worse tubeset for a guy this size. 953 makes a very cool bike for many but not a guy this size.

dave

paczki

07-21-2009, 12:13 PM

No offense but I'd be hard presses to think of a worse tubeset for a guy this size. 953 makes a very cool bike for many but not a guy this size.

dave

I'm a little smaller -- 6'3" 190, but I love my two 953 bikes. Should I not? :)

David Kirk

07-21-2009, 01:16 PM

I'm a little smaller -- 6'3" 190, but I love my two 953 bikes. Should I not? :)

We love what we love.

dave

slates

07-21-2009, 01:29 PM

No offense but I'd be hard presses to think of a worse tubeset for a guy this size. 953 makes a very cool bike for many but not a guy this size.

dave

Dave,

I'd be interested to know why as well. It seems like it's stronger and lighter, so smaller diameter tubes could be used. I can't afford it now anyway.

BTW your frames look great and I wish they were more in my $2K price range for a frame/fork.

Thank you,

erector

07-21-2009, 02:17 PM

Dario Pegoretti makes a great steel bike. Boonen won the green jersey on a Marcelo, but mine still rides VERY comfortable. It's a 2 year wait, but if you've got something to pass the time on, and a decent amount of fabric in the bank, it's worth it. No Doubt.

fiamme red

07-21-2009, 02:30 PM

Boonen won the green jersey on a MarceloHe did? It would be hard to disguise a Marcelo as a Tarmac SL2. :confused:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=tom_boonen_specialized_tarmacsl2

maunahaole

07-21-2009, 02:36 PM

Don Walker is in Indianapolis.

http://donwalkercycles.com/ROAD.html

Good suggestion. Not far to drive, and Don is a big dude as well. If you didnt know, he is also the driving force behind NAHBS.

David Kirk

07-21-2009, 03:06 PM

Dave,

I'd be interested to know why as well. It seems like it's stronger and lighter, so smaller diameter tubes could be used. I can't afford it now anyway.

BTW your frames look great and I wish they were more in my $2K price range for a frame/fork.

Thank you,

I like the main tubes very much - it's the stays that I don't like. They just don't fit into my design philosophy. IMO the seat stays are too large in diameter and too heavy and the chainstays are a good bit too light and too flexible....... not for every rider but certainly for the larger/heavier/more powerful rider.

Every builder has their own ride and handling that they are looking for and for me 953 falls short in the chain and seat stays. I use plenty of 953 in my JKS but never in the stays.

If you are a big guy and you have a full 953 bike that you love I think that is very cool. I am a tall guy (6'4" - 185 lbs) and for my personal highly subjective taste the 953 stays fall short and I never build with anything I wouldn't want for myself.

My original post in this thread says that I feel that a rider the size of the OP'er wouldn't be best served by a 953 tubeset and I feel that way strongly. Other builders I'm sure will disagree and it's that variety that brings spice to life.

Time to get back to painting my shop.

dave

Pete Serotta

07-21-2009, 03:12 PM

and I would never second guess Dave....If I was getting a new bike today the DKS would be on my short list!!! :D :D :D

This is the value of going to someone like Dave, he truly offers a custom that addresses your needs and requirements. A frame can look good and still ride not "at its best"> Dave can deliver one that is capable, maximizes your potential, and looks VERY GOOD!!!!.... Yes I have one of his bikes!!! :D

Acotts

07-21-2009, 03:17 PM

This wont help a thing, but I just wanted to let you know that I got a Steelman cross bike delivered to my office about 3 minutes ago.

i am really happy, and no one in my office really cares. I dont get it.

Its purdy.

Pete Serotta

07-21-2009, 03:28 PM

:banana: :banana: NOW THAT IS A GOOD DAY AT THE OFFICE :rolleyes:

This wont help a thing, but I just wanted to let you know that I got a Steelman cross bike delivered to my office about 3 minutes ago.

i am really happy, and no one in my office really cares. I dont get it.

Its purdy.

djg21

07-21-2009, 03:29 PM

You can try Anthony Mezzatesta (http://www.mezzatestacustomcycles.com/).

I have an older frame he built for me from a Columbus Multishape tubeset. Not sure if it's still available, but that was a good tubeset for big guys!

paczki

07-21-2009, 03:36 PM

That explains it. I am weak!

I like the main tubes very much - it's the stays that I don't like. They just don't fit into my design philosophy. IMO the seat stays are too large in diameter and too heavy and the chainstays are a good bit too light and too flexible....... not for every rider but certainly for the larger/heavier/more powerful rider.

Every builder has their own ride and handling that they are looking for and for me 953 falls short in the chain and seat stays. I use plenty of 953 in my JKS but never in the stays.

If you are a big guy and you have a full 953 bike that you love I think that is very cool. I am a tall guy (6'4" - 185 lbs) and for my personal highly subjective taste the 953 stays fall short and I never build with anything I wouldn't want for myself.

My original post in this thread says that I feel that a rider the size of the OP'er wouldn't be best served by a 953 tubeset and I feel that way strongly. Other builders I'm sure will disagree and it's that variety that brings spice to life.

Time to get back to painting my shop.

dave