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[Lance Armstrong]

It was a gift.

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[Steve in SLO]

It was a gift.
Is that what you call it?!?

[paczki]

Wiggins! Wiggins! Wiggins!

The Astana controversy was all a ploy!

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[Len J]

Unless AC tests positive & LA does a career TT, it's hard to see LA on the podium now after his inability to respond in the last 1K

len

[indyrider]

The Astana controversy was all a ploy!

aka lance saving face

good on ya' AC

[Acotts]

I think Lance has been pretty honest. He came to win and just found out he can't.

I dont think it is much of a ploy. I think his asperations were legit. For all this gloom and doom, he is sitting in second place and less than 2 minutes behind.

Bad berto is the new fool in town
[and my sound's laid down by the Underground.]

[Ray]

I had a feeling all the talk was gonna look pretty stupid after today, but you never know, so you wait and watch. I thought Lance might have been able to hang, but he couldn't even follow the Wiggins / Schlek / Sastre moves, so there was no playing the team game today. He was hanging on for dear life. The question I have is how much better Kloden could have done without hauling LA up the hill. I guess with Lance still sitting a minute better, he's the better chance for a second podium spot, but I wonder. If everyone's fighting on Ventoux, he could have a tough time staying up there.

-Ray

[Rueda Tropical]

Armstrong has been saying that the Alps would sort out who the leaders would be. It didn't turn out as he hoped but he probably couldn't know how he would do until he was tested.

Ventoux could be tough for Armstrong and knock him off the podium altogether. Schleck looks good, Kloden looked stronger then Armstrong and if Sastre has a day on Ventoux like he had on Monte Petrano in the Giro it could put Sastre into the top 3. Contador will likely solidify his lead and unless Lance has a really transformational rest day it could put him totally out of contention.

I would not be surprised to see Lance saying that he will be riding for Contador at the start of the next stage. He still has his Livestrong foundation that he is riding for even if the yellow is out of reach.

[Lance Armstrong]

I would not be surprised to see Lance saying that he will be riding for Contador at the start of the next stage. He still has his Livestrong foundation that he is riding for even if the yellow is out of reach.
Crow has never tasted better.

[Acotts]

Crow has never tasted better.

I heard that you were sandbagging because you didn't want the dog.

(very old school purse btw.)

[Marcusaurelius]

A little too early to make any firm predictions but I think Contador climbs a lot faster than anyone else in the peloton. I also think it's too early to count Lance completely out of the mix.

[1centaur]

With a good TT and some good hangin' in the mountains LA has a podium shot. Neither Sastre nor Schleck is really a good TT rider and Wiggins has not proven he can hang day after day in the mountains. Who would be surprised if Wiggo cracked on Ventoux, if not before? If I were Bruyneel my new goal would be an Astana podium sweep to lock up the new sponsorship.

[paczki]

Wiggins has not proven he can hang day after day in the mountains. Who would be surprised if Wiggo cracked on Ventoux, if not before?

Sure, but he actually looked the most comfortable of the riders up there other than Alberto and Frank Schleck. He certainly wasn't just hanging on.

[Rueda Tropical]

That's the headline from Reuters: http://ow.ly/15Icp5

Lance will be riding for Contador from now.

[Steve in SLO]

Lance actually did a pretty classy interview with Frankie Andreu just after the stage...imagine getting asked the hard questions 5 minutes after your dreams had been shattered and you'd been unceremoniously been smacked-down on the world stage. Not many of us would have had his external composure.

That being said, wouldn't it be something if he was actually playing us all and has something left for the TT and Ventoux? Seeing his face today makes me doubt it, but just imagine...wow!

[Ray]

That being said, wouldn't it be something if he was actually playing us all and has something left for the TT and Ventoux? Seeing his face today makes me doubt it, but just imagine...wow!
And he lost a minute and a half today just to heighten the drama? I don't think so. He may recover and do better in the TT or on Ventoux, but the only way he gets major time back on Alberto is if Alberto cracks big time somewhere. Always possible, but it's AC's to lose, not Lance's to win.

-Ray

[Len J]

And he lost a minute and a half today just to heighten the drama? I don't think so. He may recover and do better in the TT or on Ventoux, but the only way he gets major time back on Alberto is if Alberto cracks big time somewhere. Always possible, but it's AC's to lose, not Lance's to win.

-Ray

Not only that but at 37 recovery is harder than at 32 or 26.......this is the hardest climbing week of the tour and it also has a leg breaking ITT in the middle of it (which LA will see as a chance to get some time back before Ventoux), culminating with ventoux..............If LA wasn't strong enough to ride with the top 8 today when it mattered, I suspect it will only get worse as the week goes on.

It will be sad to watch but I think ventoux could be really ugly for LA....I really hope not....I really hope that he marshalls his energy this week and goes for the win to end his career on a high note, but I really ain't seeing it.

len

[Jack Brunk]

Alberto's crack is every one else's red line. No way he doesn't win.

[Bud_E]

For the first time in about 10 years LA looks merely super-human -- as opposed to extra-terrestrial.

[link]

Alberto's crack is every one else's red line. No way he doesn't win.

dood smiles while he climbs

[Len J]

dood smiles while he climbs


Y'know.......any other year and we'd all be in awe of Contadors prowess.

Dude can sure climb.

Len

[sjbraun]

Astana wants to win and Alberto is the who will do that for them.
If the race is locked up by the time they get to Mt Ventoux, look for Astana to ride for Lance, just to give one day of glory on a stage that has eluded him in the past.

[Avispa]

...look for Astana to ride for Lance, just to give one day of glory....

The days of glory are too expensive these days! I just don't think this is going to happen.

..A..

[GoJavs]

Only way the suspense about Lance lasted this long is because the course was not hard enough. Going into today, the guy in 30th (!) place was less than 6 minutes from yellow.

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[Lifelover]

Astana wants to win and Alberto is the who will do that for them.
If the race is locked up by the time they get to Mt Ventoux, look for Astana to ride for Lance, just to give one day of glory on a stage that has eluded him in the past.

I could see that.

Lance will fight to hold 2nd but he might want to win Ventoux even more.

Win or Lose, Lance is a major + for cycling. Professionally, recreationally and economically.

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[OtayBW]

Wiggins was truly stunning. Great ride.

Fabian was a complete beast.

Nice comeback by Sastre.

Good on Nibali.


Bingo! Just wanted to highlight this....

[Gothard]

Right now he is more elegant than the Badger. I wonder what the french will do now. Maybe dope test him a 5 every morning?

[Climb01742]

the way alberto pumped his arms on the podium, you know this meant the world to him. i read it as, take THAT! to lance, to johan, to whoever doubted his leadership. one interesting twist could be...AC has worked hard on his TT skills. given his climbing prowess, does he match any moves in the mountains, but no more attacks, and save energy for the TT and try one final smackdown there? he's proven he's the best climber. if he equals or beats lance in the TT, does that make a "gift" or a hand-in-hand finish with lance on ventoux easier?

and...fabian is a horse and a half. to be in the break yesterday then break legs on the first slopes of the climb, holy cow, what a motor.

one final thought on saturday's george saga... what if jens didn't have a flat tire and a crappy wheel change in the break? with all the focus on everything else that happened saturday, if jens had been with george the whole way in the break, his engine would have been worth at least 5 seconds, no? funny how little twists and pieces fate has, no? part of what makes sports so fascinating. :beer:

[Ray]

the way alberto pumped his arms on the podium, you know this meant the world to him. i read it as, take THAT! to lance, to johan, to whoever doubted his leadership. one interesting twist could be...AC has worked hard on his TT skills. given his climbing prowess, does he match any moves in the mountains, but no more attacks, and save energy for the TT and try one final smackdown there? he's proven he's the best climber. if he equals or beats lance in the TT, does that make a "gift" or a hand-in-hand finish with lance on ventoux easier?

I think yesterday, the ride, the podium, the everything, was Alberto's version of, to quote Lance, "how do like THEM apples"?!?!?

All this talk about "gifting" Armstrong with a win on Ventoux assumes the whole frickin' peloton is into it. Yeah, maybe if Alberto is firmly in yellow, HE'D be willing to do it as a magnanimous gesture to a teammate who gave him nothing but ****e for months but then finally came around once he'd pounded him into the dirt. But I didn't see Lance able to follow ANYONE's moves yesterday and yesterday was a much easier climb than Ventoux. So unless, Sastre, Schlek, Schlek, Wiggins, Niboli, and probably a handful of others ALSO decide to gift the stage to Lance, it isn't gonna happen. Which means it isn't gonna happen. Not to mention his own guy, Kloden - wasn't it when he pipped Kloden in that totally unnecessary downhill sprint that the whole "no gifts" quote was coined? What irony for Kloden to take it for Astana and then say something about "no gifts" in the post-race.

Versus will pile on the possibilities because Lance is the only reason they have an audience again this year and they're just praying he maintains a realistic shot at a podium position so they have SOMEthing to pitch the rest of the week. But he's a spent force. Good for the income stream for all of these guys, incredibly great in his day, etc. But its not his day anymore. Happens to the best. He was the best. Once.

-Ray

[rustychisel]

Harsh... Lance can still talk the talk with the best of 'em, but Alberto made sure everyone knew who the gun player was.

I like LA, he's always good to watch, but really, these things don't run hot and cold, black and white. What is it about internet fora which brings out the haters, lovers, black, white, hot, cold?

Lance is a great bike rider; leave it at that. Alberto's the new kid on the block.

[William]

There comes a day…..

It happens to everyone….when someone comes along who can beat you. It happened to Indurain, Riis, Lemond, Zabel, Cippo, Steels, Moncesan (sp?), etc… Even if you retire before that person comes along it still happens, just not for public display. That’s life.

One thing I had noticed leading up to yesterdays stage was that almost every time Lance’s face was shown it looked like he was working hard. Cheeks puffing, eyes staring fixed on the road. Contador on the other hand always looked fresh, alert, with a walk in the park expression. Don’t get me wrong, those boys are working hard, all of them, but I just don’t remember Lance showing it so much. Kudos to LA. For him to finish where he did yesterday considering the layoff says he’s still a strong rider. He’s not the Lance from a few years ago but he’s still top caliber in my opinion. Unless he’s pulls something out of the hat I don’t see him beating AC, but a podium finish isn’t out of the question yet.





William

[Elefantino]

OMG. If the race gifts LA on Ventoux then I'm going to a) puke and b) start watching bull riding. (Which, BTW, Craig Hummer narrates.)

If Lance is smart, and he is, he works his ball off for AC and then brings him and Bruyneel over to Apple/Livestrong presented by Banco Santander. (Had to add a Spanish sponsor.)

[bostondrunk]

.......one interesting twist could be...AC has worked hard on his TT skills. given his climbing prowess, does he match any moves in the mountains, but no more attacks, and save energy for the TT and try one final smackdown there?....

I don't think he would want to bank everything on the TT. Could have a bad day, could crash, etc. I'm betting he tries to extend his lead more in the mountains.

[GoJavs]

I remember watching Big Mig in '96, thinking after the first bad day that he'd recover somehow and he'd spank everyone heading into Pamplona. Then it only got worst.

LA v09's body of work has not shown us anything that can hint at all of a sudden being able to lap the field. He's good enough to stay with most contenders, which should be good enough for 5th or 6th which is pretty cool for a 37yr old dude. But, that's it.

Take away the 40secs from that cheeky move in the first week and take away the big TTT and he'd be sitting right in-between Sastre and Evans!

[malcolm]

I think yesterday, the ride, the podium, the everything, was Alberto's version of, to quote Lance, "how do like THEM apples"?!?!?

All this talk about "gifting" Armstrong with a win on Ventoux assumes the whole frickin' peloton is into it. Yeah, maybe if Alberto is firmly in yellow, HE'D be willing to do it as a magnanimous gesture to a teammate who gave him nothing but ****e for months but then finally came around once he'd pounded him into the dirt. But I didn't see Lance able to follow ANYONE's moves yesterday and yesterday was a much easier climb than Ventoux. So unless, Sastre, Schlek, Schlek, Wiggins, Niboli, and probably a handful of others ALSO decide to gift the stage to Lance, it isn't gonna happen. Which means it isn't gonna happen. Not to mention his own guy, Kloden - wasn't it when he pipped Kloden in that totally unnecessary downhill sprint that the whole "no gifts" quote was coined? What irony for Kloden to take it for Astana and then say something about "no gifts" in the post-race.

Versus will pile on the possibilities because Lance is the only reason they have an audience again this year and they're just praying he maintains a realistic shot at a podium position so they have SOMEthing to pitch the rest of the week. But he's a spent force. Good for the income stream for all of these guys, incredibly great in his day, etc. But its not his day anymore. Happens to the best. He was the best. Once.

-Ray

I agree. Contador made a statement and did it with his legs, but how do we really know how much **** Lance gave anybody. None of us was there no one from inside the team has said anything. This is just more speculation based on speculation. Lance could rescue a drowning puppy and it would be turned into something negative. Don't know him and not really a fan, I was pulling for sastre, but after a huge smack down he put on his big boy undies and told the world he was no longer the best for me that must have taken on big ball.

[LegendRider]

During Lance's reign he demanded the team be built solely for his objective to win the Tour. It makes sense - clearly it's an effective model. However, it irks me that he wouldn't give Contador the same respect. Alberto derserved it - he should not have had to prove his worthiness two weeks into the race. Lance never would have permitted what he did to Contador - the double standard bothers me. Having said that, he was gracious yesterday and I'd still like to see him get the Ventoux win.

[malcolm]

During Lance's reign he demanded the team be built solely for his objective to win the Tour. It makes sense - clearly it's an effective model. However, it irks me that he wouldn't give Contador the same respect. Alberto derserved it - he should not have had to prove his worthiness two weeks into the race. Lance never would have permitted what he did to Contador - the double standard bothers me. Having said that, he was gracious yesterday and I'd still like to see him get the Ventoux win.


The personality that made Lance dominate all those years wouldn't allow it. Contador had to prove he was better. If Contador is stronger on Ventoux he should win it. NO GIFTS. I don't think Lance would want, I wouldn't. If his form remains, Contador will destroy the field on Ventoux. I really liked the Sastre comeback and hopefully he has some good days ahead. He seems a decent quiet guy with the legs when he needs them.

[1centaur]

There will be a lot of guys who view Ventoux as the potential savior to their race, possibly including Schleck, Sastre and Evans (others like Nibali would view it as a lifetime achievement). They will try to win there, which will make it unlikely LA will win there. Contador seems more like Merckx to me than Armstrong and will view those attempts as an insult to his talent rather than acceptable time gaps on the way to yellow. I think he'll follow those wheels and then attack those wheels if he has the juice, to win on Ventoux and make a statement. With that and the TT on his mind, I think he'll play it a bit safe on Tuesday with that crazy descent to the finish, and I don't know what he'll do Weds, but those same three guys will be looking for a stage win there too. Now that AC's stamped his "best climber" imprint in everyone's faces, will he be able to let other climbers win on major mountain stages if he's there or thereabouts?

[link]

Gifting Ventoux? Ventoux must earned. It must be taken by the best.

It's the penultimate stage with the greatest climax of the entire Tour's drama before the denouement of the Champs-Élysées.

What is "Le Tour" if it isn't the greatest drama of cycling?

[Rueda Tropical]

Armstrong is going to move to plan B. Plan A may have been to pull an Ali-Foreman on the less experienced Contador but that required that Lance could best the best of the other teams and stay close to Contador in the mountains. Not going to happen.

The worse possible outcome for Armstrong and Bruyneel would be to blow the yellow for Astana all together. That would be a disaster personally, professionally and would not be an auspicious launching pad for a Bruyneel directed Livestrong team. Lance is going to give his all for Contador now. He'll try and find a way to stay on the podium as that would be good for himself, the team and the huge gravy train that is dependent on Armstrong to draw the crowds.

If Contador is smart he'll now get with the program as Armstrong is no longer a threat. He could learn a lot from Armstrong and Bruyneel and they could be very good for his future. They could build a powerhouse team around him.

[Elefantino]

I remember watching Big Mig in '96, thinking after the first bad day that he'd recover somehow and he'd spank everyone heading into Pamplona. Then it only got worst.
Prob was, MI showed up at the Tour looking like Bib the Michelin Man and was hoping to ride his way into shape. Not so good when you're facing a field of dopers.

Lance, OTOH, is probably as in shape as he can get at 37 (which, if you didn't hear for the 47th time from Sherwen, is his age). Frankly, I think he'd be better off at this stage of life as a classics rider a la Museeuw rather than a GT rider.

He should target P-R next year and kick Boonen's *ss for leaving Postal.

[Ray]

I agree. Contador made a statement and did it with his legs, but how do we really know how much **** Lance gave anybody. None of us was there no one from inside the team has said anything. This is just more speculation based on speculation. Lance could rescue a drowning puppy and it would be turned into something negative. Don't know him and not really a fan, I was pulling for sastre, but after a huge smack down he put on his big boy undies and told the world he was no longer the best for me that must have taken on big ball.
I'm just going on the public statements, not speculating on what was said or done behind closed doors. Lance would occasionally say something wise and lucid, like "I have to be prepared for the possibility that Alberto is not just stronger, but WAAAY stronger than me" from which he'd gain my respect, but then would make a series of statements that showed NO respect for Alberto, ostensibly to get inside his head. Leading up to and DURING the Tour. Which to me showed no class when directed toward a teammate who'd already won all three grand tours. Not comparable to rescuing a drowning puppy - more like trying to drown the puppy himself to show what a big dog he is. I agree that publically acknowledging the obvious reality after yesterdays stage was he right thing to do.

So Lance goes back and forth between earning and losing our respect, which probably explains the love/hate feelings a lot of folks have toward him.

-Ray

[malcolm]

The drowning puppy wasn't directed at you, but the folks that spin anything negative.

[Lifelover]

....not speculating on what was said or done .......but then would make a series of statements that showed NO respect for Alberto, ostensibly to get inside his head........

-Ray

Seems speculative to me. ATMO

[Ray]

Seems speculative to me. ATMO
The part about the motivation is purely speculative - hence the use of "ostensibly". But the stuff he was saying in the press wasn't. You can interpret it however you want. Saying it was dis-respectful to Alberto wasn't speculative, but it was my opinion. I guess I'll qualify everything from now on! Maybe I could say IMHO, or ATMO?

-Ray

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