OT: Land Rovers?

[bluedog18]

It about that time to start looking into a new vehicle, got over 180,000 miles on my 99 Grand Cherokee Limited and I think it's time to find something new. I actually have the time to look for a new car and do some research. My last 2 vehicles I had to find and buy in about week since I need to replace cars that were totaled, thank god I wasn't in those cars when they were hit (my vehicles tend to get hit when they parked).

I'm done with jeeps, just tried of them (had a 94 &99 grand cherokee limited's) and it seems with each new generation the cargo area gets smaller. The newer 05-09 models I can't get my bikes inside the back, like my 99. I looked at the Land Rovers and I found them comfortable and love the how they handle. I hate the fact the fuel efficient isn't great by any means. I'm leaning towards LR2 which is small but gets better mpg than the LR3. I can still get my bikes inside the LR2 but my dog is going be cramp heading to cyclocross races. If I get a LR3, I'm going to have plenty of room but gas is going suck.

Those that have or owned a Land Rover, what do you think of them? It's seems that there a love and hate relationship with them.

[johnnymossville]

The limited time (1 week) I had with a new rented Discovery 2 years ago was a VERY enjoyable experience. You are right, it's a love/hate thing because in a way it seems you are giving up some things in the way of creature comforts, (possible reliability issues?), economy, but are gaining so much more in other ways, some of those are very difficult to put into words actually.

It's kinda the same way I feel about my Harley. :)

I say go for it.

[Ahneida Ride]

you need a 18 wheeler of frns for the repair bills.

[bluedog18]

I think with the reliability, it's hit and miss with any car you get. My 94 grand cherokee, I had to get the tranny rebuilt and went through 4 fuel pumps. But with imports parts are going to cost more regardless.

[DavidR]

I had a 2000 Disco II. I loved it and had a great time using it the way it was built. They are great for a stock truck once you get them off road. I will tell you that I only owned mine while it was under warranty so the repairs were not coming out pocket. One thing to keep in mind is the re sale has never been good with Land Rover. I would recommend buying one that is a couple years old that still may have a year left on warranty. You will get a great deal and be able to have it check out a couple of times while it is still under warranty.

[bluedog18]

buying one that is a couple years old that still may have a year left on warranty.

Oh Yea I agree with you on that. I was looking at 08 LR2 since that's first year for that model. And With the LR3 either a 05 or 06.

[allegretto]

if you're thinking that kind of money, find a VW Touareg V-10 TDi

wonderful, rugged, fast, comfortable and >20MPG

[bozman]

A friend of mine had a Freelander and it was complete junk.

How about an older Toyota Landcruiser? They run forever and only require the normal oil change and some gas (quite a bit of gas.) My boss has one and has it set up so he can put two road bikes in the rear with the front wheels off and the back seats folded down.

[Smiley]

I have nothing but great luck with my 2007 Ford Edge and get my bike in without the seat and post up-right all the time. Check it out.

[peanutgallery]

A friend of mine had a Freelander and it was complete junk.

How about an older Toyota Landcruiser? They run forever and only require the normal oil change and some gas (quite a bit of gas.) My boss has one and has it set up so he can put two road bikes in the rear with the front wheels off and the back seats folded down.

+1 on the Toyota. Rav4, 4runner, Sequoia or Cruiser. You will love it and be hard pressed to go wrong.

My family has always had an English car or 2 in the garage. My old man has been obsessed for decades, Beatlemania hangover I guess. Morgans, Jaguars, Land Rovers, MG's, etc. They are the best of times and the worst of times. Great style and what not but terrible reliability, generally speaking. For some crazy reason english cars are just not that refined mechanically and you will find yourself with the need for a second vehicle as your daily driver. If this is what you want, you will love a Rover.

The Morgan gets a free pass on simplicity, style points and fun factor, the rest are long gone. If you buy one, mechanical ability (or lots of cash) is a must

[bluedog18]

A friend of mine had a Freelander and it was complete junk.

I've read the reviews of the freelander, not good at all. Even at the dealership they told me they won't even take on a trade in.

LR2 does have a volvo engine in it, so my thinking there is I shouldn't have any issues. I had old 740 wagon, love it! My parents still have their 850 wagon and my sister has xc90. The only one to have a problem was mine, over 200,000 miles on it. The engine seal went bad.

[Pete Serotta]

Land Rover is a great looking vehicle but at the other end of the scale is its reliability, cost of repair when warranty is over, and severe depreciation if something happens to it.


Much better off with a dull Toyota (LandCrusier) or any Toyota or Honda. THe Ford that SMILEY mentions is a nice vehicle but I do not know if it has enough room for you.



Sounds like you keep your cars a long time so if the Rover is it, get an extended warranty after the prime one is over, I like them but their reputation is bad - as was my TR6 and I still kept that many years and many $$S


PETE

[johnnymossville]

One new car with more problems than the Land Rover is that other semi-british car the new mini. That doesn't stop people from buying and enjoying them. That said I'm sure there are many trouble free land rovers and minis out there on the road.

Of course it doesn't hurt to be handy with tools. I'd go for that 2 or 3 year old one myself.

[mgm777]

I owned a LR Disco SD (orginal series) for 12 years. It was comfortable, solid, could easily carry a couple bikes in the cargo bay, BUT...it was also a maintenance hog. With LR, you have to keep on the maintenance. If you get a LR, I recommend, before purchasing, you scope out a good, convenient, independent, repair shop that focuses on LR. You will become best friends with them. I used to hate all the maintenance costs required of my LR. However, that being said, I did keep it for 12 years, drove it for 120K, and ended up selling it for $5K. There is something about a LR that kept me hooked for longer that I should have been. I now own a Toyota 4Runner which is dependable, fairly maintenance free, but boring, IMHO. My wife drives a Volvo V70 wagon, which we both love. Can't say enough good things about our Volvo.

[dogdriver]

Klik and Klak, the Tappit brothers of NPR Car Talk fame, said it best: "Buy a Toyota."

[Ozz]

How much time do you spend off-road? How far off-road?

Are you looking for a tool, an image, or a lifestyle?

I would love to have a Land Rover (cue images of Marlin Perkins and Jim wrestling the anaconda).....but I would never want the hassle of the ownership.....I guess I'm not that adventurous.

I did have a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee for awhile...actually really liked it....but the brakes kept warping and the transmission locked up once...PITA issues.

If you need the off-road capability....Toyota (Land Cruiser, FJ, or 4Runner is the way to go)....if you need modest offroad and AWD, the Highlander is pretty nice, as is the Rav4.

Cheers.

:beer:

[goonster]

Klik and Klak, the Tappit brothers of NPR Car Talk fame, said it best: "Buy a Toyota."
Would that be a Toyota with, or without, premature frame rot? :confused:

[Ken Robb]

do you need off-road capability? If not why pay extra to buy, maintain, and haul around the added complexity of 4 or all wheel drive? Generally speaking minivans have more interior space, ride and handle better, and cost less to operate than SUVs.
FWIW, I rented a Hyundai Santa Fe a couple of years ago and hauled 2 of DBRK's bikes around in it for a week. I was impressed with its overall performance for that type of vehicle and MPG was over 20.

[avalonracing]

I've had good friends who have owned a Range Rover, a Defender 90, and a Discovery (all purchased new).
Everyone one of them was a total POS and cost the owners a fortune in repairs and depreciation. Each of those owners would say "Run".

[csm]

I came very close years ago to buying a defender 90. it was used but low miles. at the time I was driving an Isuzu Trooper. I decided to call around to see what parts were like to replace on the LR. I used what I was replacing on the trooper as a guide. this was pre-internet and I was shocked at what parts cost for those things! needless to say, I sorta wish I would have gotten it anyway but am probably far better off for not getting it.

[Larry D]

I had a Freelander in 04, the first year they came out. It was very reliable, I must have had the exception. However, I do agree that the maintenance costs were/are high. Brakes every 24K, tire about the same. They were also notorious for blowing head gaskets.

My father has an 05 Disco that`was very nice.


Trade in is minimal and I would be a bit leary with Tata as the owner of the company.

[SoCalSteve]

My boss has an LR2 that his wife drives...

Thank G@d he bought the extended warranty, but it still costs him $50.00 every time it is in the shop....And, it is in the shop OFTEN!

Stay away!

Good luck with whatever you buy,

Steve

PS: Look at the Audi Q5, its beautiful and the Audi motors are uber reliable...Oh, the VW Touerag as well. I have a 2004 (first year they came out) and after the initial first year issues, its been a great vehicle (save for the lousy gas mileage and having to replace brakes and tires often). They are WAAAAY overbuilt!

[William]

Rovers: Good off-road capability, pretty bad service record...and not exactly cheap to repair.

My FJ60 Landcruiser has over 250,000 miles on it and still going strong....and it eats Landrovers, Jeeps, and Hummers for lunch off-road. Currently, IMO, the most reliable and off-road capable 4WD off the show room floor today is the Toyota FJ Cruiser. Not everyone likes the looks, but they can go anywhere without mods...and are very mod friendly if you want to add on.





William

[quansoo]

I think Ozz makes a good point.

I bought a 4 Runner when I lived five miles down a dirt road in Wyoming. It was great, but when I moved back to Boston, I didn't need the off-road capability. We spend some time on the Vineyard down a dirt road, but it's not 10, 20, 30 miles every single day. I kept thinking I'd use it on the beach more, but didn't enough to justify keeping it. After the brakes let go on me, that was that.

I very much like my Audi allroad 6 speed stick. It has the Audi quattro all wheel drive system. It also has a pneumatic suspension system, which I use to raise the suspension some on dirt roads, when carrying heavy loads or in heavy snow. You lower it back down for every day driving or lower it further still for high speed highway driving. You can run the thing all day at 80. It's much more fun to drive than the 4 Runner was and much more comfortable. Better mileage than the 4 Runner and comparable reliability (though when the Audi does have the occasional issue, I'm sure it's pricier to fix than the 4 Runner was). And the bike fits easily in the back.

The only problem is that Audi stopped making the allroad in 2005. You can find Audi certified ones around though.

[victoryfactory]

LR2 does have a volvo engine in it, so my thinking there is I shouldn't have any issues. I had old 740 wagon, love it! My parents still have their 850 wagon and my sister has xc90. The only one to have a problem was mine, over 200,000 miles on it. The engine seal went bad.

I drove the LR2 when I was car shopping last year. Very nice drivetrain,
The AWD system is computer controlled rather than old school 4WD
(I think that's the future for all off road vehicles)

I was dissappointed in the length of the load bed behind the front seats..
Only 61.5 inches. And virtually no cabin storage. No covered center console
storage. Also totally stupid keyless fob system that requires the fob be inserted
in the dashboard (might as well use a key).
When considering the price, it was a no go for me.

I went with the '09 Subaru Forester. 66 inch load bed, more storage all
around similarly advanced AWD system and 10K cheaper!
About 10x the dealer network, better reliability and cheaper service too.

VF

[musgravecycles]

+1000 on the Land Cruiser recommendation.

Land Rovers have a deserving rep as being horrible on service. My '89 Cruiser is still going strong. My baby sister is driving a cruiser with 330K without a single issue ever (except a bad abs sensor once, and it'll be due for birfields soon).

I'm not keen on the aesthetics of them but the FJ-Cruiser is built on the proven Prado chassis, and it's ready to wheel off the dealer floor (frame is even pre-drilled for sliders). The rearward visibility leaves a little something to be desired, but they're strong vehicles.

p.s. William tell me about the ft. bumper on your 60.

[dogdriver]

Would that be a Toyota with, or without, premature frame rot? :confused:

Dunno. I'll take the one sans rust. Had my first 4Runner (1990) for 16 years, gave it to my secretary's daughter, she sold it to a friend, and its still going strong-- no rust except a little where the tailgate was banged up. Its replacement-- a 2005 Tacoma-- still looks new. I see a bunch of Land Rovers in the foofy town I call home, and they usually make me giggle. Doubt most of them have ever been off the pavement...and there is the issue of where to board the full-time live-in mechanic.

[sspielman]

We had a 2003 Disco 2 that we just traded last November. Our experience with the vehicle was very positive. Ours was nearly flawless. Other than wear and tear items, the only repair made was to the passenger side window motor-under warranty. The Discoveries and Range Rovers are far more reliable than the problematic Freelanders. You will never feel more secure in bad conditions than you will in a Landrover. It was a delight in heavy rain....impervious to snow....and I am pretty sure that I could climb the north face of the Eiger in one if given a fair run. We loved it....

[RkyMtn]

Land Rover: Great when it is roving, sucks when it is in the shop. The problem I had was that I had to fight for the warranty work, as the dealer tried to say that some of the problems were "normal wear and tear".

Get a Toyota or Lexus. My 4 Runner never quit working and was the most reliable car I have ever had. The seats were not that comfortable, though, on the long hauls. Lately, I have been running a Mercedes ML350 and love the car. When Mercedes hooked up with Chrysler, they took their electronics, which I have been told is one of the fine features of Chrysler, and helped to solve the German electronics problem. No problems for me in the ML350 (07 model). And the 7 speed transmission puts surprising power to the drive system.

Good luck, but I just cannot endorse the Land Rover. Great is you have another car for backup.

[bluedog18]

Land Rover: Great when it is roving, sucks when it is in the shop.

Sounds like my buddie's brother that I talked to last night. He was telling me about his 94 Porsche Cayenne. He had it for 130 days and it spent 73 in the shop, he said it wouldn't had been as bad if the loaner car was another Porsche.

I do go offroad but that's about 25% of the time and when the weather gets bad it's me that goes on the road. Even when the snow is blowing on the weekend when there is a cyclocross race there is NO way I'm staying home, I'm racing! :banana:

[flickwet]

I have an ecological consulting firm and spend alot of time off roading here in Ohio, I also spent the 80's driving around variuos deserts all over the world. In am a reformed motorhead, just bicycles now. Here's my take... I had a 99 series 1 Disco bought as a "certified car" for 6 months, loved it the whole 3 weeks it actually worked, trans axle went out under warranty and it took 2 1/2 months to get it fixed, if I had to pay woulda been 7,000 bucks. Got rid of it when the power steering "slowed down" a week later. I've had Bronco's, Jimmy's, Jeeps and Suburbans but most of all 5 Isuzu Troopers, Currently have 240,000 miles on my 96 LS, just replaced the tranny for 510 bucks parts and labor, first expensive repair on this one. They are the roomiest for their size, most competent (my LS has an LSR) off road vehicle ever made and they aren't made no mo, get a nice used one, drive it for ever. My bike rack fits on the spare so bikes just swing outta the way when I open the rear door. 4 kids will fit in the biggest back seat you'll find anywhere, great suspension, great motor, great packaging, who needs dealers anyway. BTW the dealer where I bought my Disco folded shop here recently

[William]

I have an ecological consulting firm and spend alot of time off roading here in Ohio, I also spent the 80's driving around variuos deserts all over the world. In am a reformed motorhead, just bicycles now. Here's my take... I had a 99 series 1 Disco bought as a "certified car" for 6 months, loved it the whole 3 weeks it actually worked, trans axle went out under warranty and it took 2 1/2 months to get it fixed, if I had to pay woulda been 7,000 bucks. Got rid of it when the power steering "slowed down" a week later. I've had Bronco's, Jimmy's, Jeeps and Suburbans but most of all 5 Isuzu Troopers, Currently have 240,000 miles on my 96 LS, just replaced the tranny for 510 bucks parts and labor, first expensive repair on this one. They are the roomiest for their size, most competent (my LS has an LSR) off road vehicle ever made and they aren't made no mo, get a nice used one, drive it for ever. My bike rack fits on the spare so bikes just swing outta the way when I open the rear door. 4 kids will fit in the biggest back seat you'll find anywhere, great suspension, great motor, great packaging, who needs dealers anyway. BTW the dealer where I bought my Disco folded shop here recently


I can't speak to their reliability, and can't say that I've really ever seen one off road so no comment there. But I seem to remember Consumer Reports issuing a hazard warning about rollover danger with the IT's.



William

[William]

+1000 on the Land Cruiser recommendation.

Land Rovers have a deserving rep as being horrible on service. My '89 Cruiser is still going strong. My baby sister is driving a cruiser with 330K without a single issue ever (except a bad abs sensor once, and it'll be due for birfields soon).

I'm not keen on the aesthetics of them but the FJ-Cruiser is built on the proven Prado chassis, and it's ready to wheel off the dealer floor (frame is even pre-drilled for sliders). The rearward visibility leaves a little something to be desired, but they're strong vehicles.

p.s. William tell me about the ft. bumper on your 60.


That's my SROR (Solid Rock Off Road) bumper that I just put on. I got a good deal on it so I gave it a try. More solid protection than the original bumper plus it gives me a much better approach angle than the original. It's one beefy bumper. Jim builds rough ready quality equipment for 60's.

William

[csm]

When I had my Trooper I had 4 buddies that had them as well. other than wear and tear (usually user-inflicted damage) they kept running. I never managed to get it stuck anywhere and certainly not for a lack of trying. I really really wanted the defender 90 but didn't want to have 2 cars. I went from the Isuzu to Jeeps, both cherokees and grand cherokees. none had the "panache" and total ability to absorb abuse at the hands of me. and replacement parts for Jeeps were a lot higher than for the Trooper.
I do like the new FJs but I think they are a bit over-priced for the current market.

[woolly]

I've had four friends that purchased Land Rovers. Each liked the styling & how they drove but ended up hating the overall ownership experience due to extremely poor reliability, very expensive maintenance/repair costs, and unbelievably crappy resale value. The lucky one of the four had his burn to the ground alongside the freeway, so at least he got some insurance money back out of the deal.

You gotta want one of these bad to put up with all that.

[bozman]

LR2 does have a volvo engine in it, so my thinking there is I shouldn't have any issues. I had old 740 wagon, love it! My parents still have their 850 wagon and my sister has xc90. The only one to have a problem was mine, over 200,000 miles on it. The engine seal went bad.

My mom had a 760 turbo circa 1990. She drove the ***** out of that thing. It had a little over 300k on it when she traded it in. It was very reliable and a hoot to drive. My father's only complaint was the cost of getting anything repaired.