What's the BMW of bikes?

[paulrad9]

On a group ride the other day the topic of what's the 'cool' bike being sold these days came up. The BMW M-series of bikes. Since I'm riding a steel bike from the Clinton administration, I'm not up to what's cool these days.

Requirements:
- Performance oriented. This is up for interpretation but I guess anything remotely competitive works
- Exclusive. The roads seem to be dominated with bikes by Treks, Specializeds, Cervelos, etc...NTTIAWWT. What's a bike that isn't ubiquitous and will be recognized as a riders' bike?
- Racing history/pedigree

My first choice was our forum supporter - other choices?

[markie]

BMW's are driven by douches. Sorry BMW drivers, but if you look deep inside your heart, you probably know, you are a douche. If you did not you do now.

I think of Serotta more like a Porsche.

[Steve in SLO]

This?

[Steve in SLO]

BMW's are driven by douches. Sorry BMW drivers, but if you look deep inside your heart, you probably know, you are a douche. If you did not you do now.

I think of Serotta more like a Porsche.
Porsche drivers are douches, too. Ask me how I know.

[hokoman]

Porsche drivers are douches, too. Ask me how I know.

do 914's count as a porsche or a vw? jk. that's a nice example of a classic car.

[Michael Maddox]

So, you're looking for a high-end, factory-made bike that isn't a full-on custom wonderbike, right?

Probably a stock Serotta, maybe a Trek Madone, top of the line from many other companies, like Specialized, Felt, and the like. Very nice stuff.

You'll find the high end in bicycles to be much more custom-oriented than high-end automobiles, to be sure, unless you've been dealing with supercars or small independent manufacturers.

I'd never equate my custom Kirk, Argonaut, or Bob Brown with anything as mundane as a BMW. And I'm pretty sure custom Serotta, Calfee, Sachs, and other owners would feel the same.

[maunahaole]

do 914's count as a porsche or a vw? jk. that's a nice example of a classic car.


a 914/6 is a porsche. all the rest are debatable.

[SoCalFred]

Steve's ride looks like a 914-6 or 916 to me. Not just a normal anemic 914...(Mine's got an aluminum V-8)

Still...What's the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine?

The porcupine has the pricks on the outside!!!

[paulrad9]

Sweet car. I wanted a 914/6 in the early 90s but couldn't find a nice one in my budget so I settled on a MR2. The pic of yours is making me regret not looking harder!

[Steve in SLO]

do 914's count as a porsche or a vw?
OK then, how about this one?
BTW: my 914 was a 914-6 with a 2.4S motor. A real track hottie.

[hokoman]

OK then, how about this one?
BTW: my 914 was a 914-6 with a 2.4S motor. A real track hottie.

c'mon steve, i was joking! gt3 - wowza! nice ride. i would be scared to wreck it so i would be racing in the miata class if that was my thing! :)

[Likes2ridefar]

Pinarello Prince. It can be yours for a mere $5500.

[Steve in SLO]

c'mon steve, i was joking! gt3 - wowza! nice ride. i would be scared to wreck it so i would be racing in the miata class if that was my thing! :)
That's why I bought the 914-6, so I wouldn't pile up my "good" Porsche at the track.

Now back from Hijack,
I think of Cervelos and Looks as BMW equivalents: Expensive, somewhat trendy with an elitist flavor, and popular with folks who are somewhat 'bike proud'

[Likes2ridefar]

Agreed with Steve on the BMW to Cervelo, top range specialized, etc. BMWs are a dime a dozen where I live, even the M series.

[avalonracing]

I grew up with an original owner '74 914 in the driveway (my step-father's). I loved that little car and I'll always have a soft spot for them. Hey, it wasn't that fast at accelerating but you didn't need slow down for corners which makes for a fast car. That and a targa top... I've had to talk myself out of buying one a few times now.

As for BMW Ms? They are nice but I'm more of a MB AMG fan.

[csm]

I"m goin with the Madone sport fit with ultegra. had some yoyo in a 3 series convertible and LOUD exhaust trying to get me to go yesterday evening. I behaved mostly.
I do see certain "personalities" in certain car brands. most are negative.

[Charles M]

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/tech/velovie/velovie-bmwpp.jpg

but I would call something like Colnago a BMW... They put in the design time, the bikes generally perform pretty well, good history and race pedigree and folks start popping off about "the kind of people" that own them without knowing the people or having ever riden the bike... :D

[witcombusa]

do 914's count as a porsche or a vw? jk. that's a nice example of a classic car.


Depends on if it's got the BIG 6 behind the driver.....

[Climb01742]

but you didn't need slow down for corners which makes for a fast car.

oh yes. no car i ever drove cornered better. but these days, looking UP at the bumpers of SUVs was a tad disconcerting.

[nahtnoj]

On a group ride the other day the topic of what's the 'cool' bike being sold these days came up. The BMW M-series of bikes. Since I'm riding a steel bike from the Clinton administration, I'm not up to what's cool these days.

Requirements:
- Performance oriented. This is up for interpretation but I guess anything remotely competitive works
- Exclusive. The roads seem to be dominated with bikes by Treks, Specializeds, Cervelos, etc...NTTIAWWT. What's a bike that isn't ubiquitous and will be recognized as a riders' bike?
- Racing history/pedigree

My first choice was our forum supporter - other choices?

I'd say comparing BMW to Serotta is an insult to Serotta. A steel Serotta is a Porsche 993 or 996/7 GT3. Carbon Serotta = GT2 or Challenge Stradale. Those are exclusive vehicles targeted towards an enthusiast audience.

BMWs (major generalization) are not exclusive (where I live *everyone* has a 3 series) but are driven by people who want to appear exclusive. Once a BMW is superseded by a new model it gets traded because the owner no longer thinks he looks good in it. In that case, BMW = carbon from Pinarello, Look, Cervelo, etc.

[Nautilus]

I'd say comparing BMW to Serotta is an insult to Serotta. A steel Serotta is a Porsche 993 or 996/7 GT3. Carbon Serotta = GT2 or Challenge Stradale. Those are exclusive vehicles targeted towards an enthusiast audience.

BMWs (major generalization) are not exclusive (where I live *everyone* has a 3 series) but are driven by people who want to appear exclusive. Once a BMW is superseded by a new model it gets traded because the owner no longer thinks he looks good in it. In that case, BMW = carbon from Pinarello, Look, Cervelo, etc.

You're confusing people who drive BMWs with BMW drivers, big difference.

Wouldn't a Serotta compare to say an E34 M5, I bet you don't see one of those hand built machines every day in Philly, or how about an M1? Ever see one of those on the streets?

[bluto]

worst thread ever.....

[cadence90]

worst thread ever.....

...and worst bike ever. (Next worst is the Vale Rossi 'nago EPS.)

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/tech/velovie/velovie-bmwpp.jpg

[Ken Robb]

I say that "stock" geometry Serottas are similar to stock BMWs. They are nimble without being twitchy and quite comfortable for vehicles with such good handling.

[Steve in SLO]

...and worst bike ever. (Next worst is the Vale Rossi 'nago EPS.)

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/tech/velovie/velovie-bmwpp.jpg

I kinda like its understated elegance...

[rphetteplace]

OK then, how about this one?
BTW: my 914 was a 914-6 with a 2.4S motor. A real track hottie.

Dude if that's your ride when can we hang??????

BMW is Cervelo or Trek. Serotta/Seven/Indy is Porsche. Dario is Lambo, and Colnago is Ferrari.

[xjoex]

Dude if that's your ride when can we hang??????

BMW is Cervelo or Trek. Serotta/Seven/Indy is Porsche. Dario is Lambo, and Colnago is Ferrari.

I agree/

-Joe

[Steve in SLO]

Dude if that's your ride when can we hang??????



Anytime...it even has bike racks. Never tested them over 100, though.

[rphetteplace]

Anytime...it even has bike racks. Never tested them over 100, though.

I think I have a man crush :)

[RkyMtn]

Well, the BMW's trademark is handling. So, what bikes have that down pat with good acceleration, but not the best, and no particular attention to weight.

I would offer up a Pegoretti Marcelo.

As for Porche, It would have to be a very racy bike that accelerates and corners exceptionally, but for anyone who doesn't race, it is way more bike than you will ever use, as a Porche is made for the Autobahn and race track. Colnago Extreme Power.

Cheers and happy debating!

Eric

[audiisaac]

So... If BMW is a Trek, and Serotta is a Porsche, what is an Audi?

[nahtnoj]

You're confusing people who drive BMWs with BMW drivers, big difference.

Wouldn't a Serotta compare to say an E34 M5, I bet you don't see one of those hand built machines every day in Philly, or how about an M1? Ever see one of those on the streets?

So you would agree with me that modern BMW's are by in large driven by people who have little appreciation for the company's history?

E34 M5, E30 M3, Z3M Coupe - no arguments there.

[nahtnoj]

So... If BMW is a Trek, and Serotta is a Porsche, what is an Audi?

I've been thinking about that. More of an Audi guy myself. Fast, stable, all weather, comfort - Audi is a Serotta Legend?

Steel Serotta - air cooled Porsche.
Titanium Serotta - Audi S6 Avant.
Carbon Serotta - Porsche TT or GT2

[jjb]

BMW's are driven by douches. Sorry BMW drivers, but if you look deep inside your heart, you probably know, you are a douche. If you did not you do now.


Anyone who watches Top Gear knows that this is no longer true and Audi's are now the official douche car. :beer:

-jjb

[markie]

Anyone who watches Top Gear knows that this is no longer true and Audi's are now the official douche car. :beer:

-jjb


I watched that top gear episode and then started to closely examine the behaviour of Audi drivers. Lo and behold, the Audi is the blunt instrument of choice for the young douche in training.

I noticed Audi drivers in the UK were younger and more thuggish than their American counterparts.

So in conclusion Audi has taken amazing strides into the douche market, but I am afraid that BMW is still the popped collar of the douche world.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[csm]

So... If BMW is a Trek, and Serotta is a Porsche, what is an Audi?

an Audi would be a cross bike.

[r_mutt]

bmw hasn't made a proper sports car since the M1 of the 80's. a fast ride does not a sports car make.

the M-series cars are all sport sedans- not proper sports cars. even the M-3 isn't a proper sports car. they are fast, and some of them even handle well despite their blubber, but they are not sports cars!

now, the lotus elise- that's a proper sports car.

[paulrad9]

now, the lotus elise- that's a proper sports car.

When the Elise was first introduced, there was a lot of buzz around its light weight (which I agree, contribute to it being a proper sports car). The reason they were able to keep the weight down was due to a chassis which weighed somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 lbs. The opening shot in the story showed two engineers supporting the entire chassis..now that's progress!

[Charles M]

Serotta are not Porsche...


If anything sport quick, styling, it would be far more exclusive than just some other assembly line kit...


You want German Car-Serotta, I would say Weismann...


http://www.wiesmann-auto-sport.de/GT_MF5/front/MF5_0547.jpg

http://www.wiesmann-auto-sport.de/roadster/ro_df_a.jpg


BMW M Power plants (v6-v10) and modern classical design, along with a road tearing chasis that's also not overly stiff...

When a Douche drives a Weismann they call him "spirited"... :D

[hobartimus]

Are you guys talking status/heritage or pure performance? If the latter, I'd throw some love to a Subaru WRX STi.

[Ahneida Ride]

The BMW 2002 was not a Douche Car ...

Suddenly BMW became fashionable and the Douche's arrived.

[Steve in SLO]

The BMW 2002 was not a Douche Car ...

Suddenly BMW became fashionable and the Douche's arrived.
+1
The 320i started the downfall. I owned a 68 2002 for 12 years, all the while jonesin' for a 3.0 CSL

[55/Rad]

I kinda like my '89 Bimmer. I think it goes well with all my late 80's and early 90's steel rides...

Pushing 200K miles and still going very strong. Going to make a 1000 mile trek (LA to Portland) tomorrow - for the second time in a week.

55/Rad

http://versioni.addr.com/pics/Grant89i.jpg

[Pete Serotta]

You are my hero!!!! :cool: :beer: :beer:

OK then, how about this one?
BTW: my 914 was a 914-6 with a 2.4S motor. A real track hottie.

[Steve in SLO]

You are my hero!!!! :cool: :beer: :beer:
I think those who designed my cars ought to be your heroes, Pete. I'm just a guy lucky enough to be able to drive these masterpieces.

[Steelhead]

I wouldn't compare to something as cookie cutter & pretentious as a Beemer, but if you want fast/cool/not everybody has one, try one of these:

www.crumptoncycles.com
www.gianobikes.com
www.kirkleebicycles.com

[paulrad9]

try one of these

Great links!

The intent of my thread wasn't to evaluate the merits of BWM (sure, they attract the 'look at me crowd', but over-bloated cars matched with big engines sell these days; even the smaller Ferraris are pushing 3,000 lbs!), but to get some insight into bikes that are well designed and recognized as truly good rides by knowledgeable riders. But car banter is fun too ;)

If I could recreate this thread, I would call it "what's the Lotus Elise of bikes"....1984 lbs with 189 naturally-aspirated horses, translating into 10.5 lbs/horsepower, wow! :beer:

Cheers,

Paul

[Steve in SLO]

BMW Bavaria = Merckx MX Leader

[Ti Designs]

BMW's are driven by douches.


Is there a brand of car that isn't???

I'm trying to figure this thread out, so I look at the OP's question - what's the BMW of bikes? So first we have to define what a BMW is. I'm not going to reach back in history and pull out one past model, that wasn't part of the question. It's a car company which sells based on reputation and performance, or maybe that't the reputation OF performance. The performance itself is balanced in a "let's not get into trouble" sort of way. Anyone who's swapped ends in a 911 knows what I'm talking about. It's the kind of car where the average (read: unskilled) driver can get behind the wheel and feel a boost in driving performance over their Toyota. When you boil it all down, it comes down to how the car is marketed. I keep thinking about one BMW ad, where it's just a set of keys with the words "The ultimate driving machine".

Trek can't be the BMW of bikes. They pin their hopes and dreams, not to mention their advertising budget on some guy named Lance. There's no slogan refering to an unseen bike. Specialized doesn't fit in any way, shape or form. Serotta is close, but I think the outward emphasis on fit puts them out of the running. I would have to say, based on the type of marketing, that Seven is the BMW of bikes.

[dana_e]

PUCH, right

[allegretto]

OK, many here know a LOT about bikes. probably (no, certainly) a LOT more than me.

OTOH, i've spent my adult life buying, selling and trading performance cars. so i'll give you the other end of the telescope, so to speak;

BMW is a brand that has some great history, but of late trails the leading edge in terms of any performance parameter you'd care to choose. they are mass-produced and depend upon Marketing to keep them afloat. quality control has suffered mightily and appearance/look/feel are nothing like the image the Marketing dept. strives to contrive. owners tend to be uninformed and are buying form over function. style, while a matter of taste, is nonetheless... odd...

as a bike nearly know-nothing i'd say TREK is a good metaphor. but perhaps some here have a better one?

[Steve in SLO]

Puch=Isetta

[gemship]

OK, many here know a LOT about bikes. probably (no, certainly) a LOT more than me.

OTOH, i've spent my adult life buying, selling and trading performance cars. so i'll give you the other end of the telescope, so to speak;

BMW is a brand that has some great history, but of late trails the leading edge in terms of any performance parameter you'd care to choose. they are mass-produced and depend upon Marketing to keep them afloat. quality control has suffered mightily and appearance/look/feel are nothing like the image the Marketing dept. strives to contrive. owners tend to be uninformed and are buying form over function. style, while a matter of taste, is nonetheless... odd...

as a bike nearly know-nothing i'd say TREK is a good metaphor. but perhaps some here have a better one?


The only problem I have with what you say is that Trek's are tough as nails and the quality is right there, otherwise you're right on. I don't think there really is a comparison of bike maker to BMW. At least not without some compromise.