Merlin/Ti Cognoscenti: Extralight/Works CR

[Lee Vining]

(also posted on Roadbike forum)

Merlin cognoscenti:

Apologies in advance for the plethora of information that follows, but I wanted to give you details, to better benefit from your collective wisdom.

I'm shopping for a Ti bike, and ran across this deal from Backcountryoutlet.com on a completely built Works CR ($2384):

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/out...lete-Mens.html Seems like a very good deal.

I'm also eyeballing a 2009 Extralight frame (includes Easton EC-90 SL fork) - $1599 from Colorado Cyclist.

I'm a climbing fanatic – think Death Ride -- and enjoy long training sessions. I'm naturally competitive, but I don't aspire to race. I enjoy pushing my limits, standing on pedals and snapping into a climb.

I'm attracted to Ti because of its longevity and light weight. I like the idea of investing in a durable, "lifetime" frame that I can use as a platform for groupsets of increasing sophistication and decreasing weight through the years. At the same time, I'm price-sensitive -- the Works CR, as offered up by backcountry.com, represents the top end of my range.

If I went for the Works, I’d immediately trade the 53/39 for either a compact or a triple -- but don't know how big a project would that be, or how much it would cost (for example, would I need to swap out front and rear derailleurs, bottom bracket?).

The Extralight frame looks wonderful; I like the idea of fleshing in a skeleton. The net difference between the Extralight frame and the complete Works is $755 (factoring in shipping). I own components cannibalized from a Trek 5000 (which had a total of 5,000 miles) – wheelset (Bontrager Race), carbon seatpost, a saddle, a braze-on 105 front, an Ultegra rear, a 172.5 Ultegra triple crank, a bottom bracket, and 105 brakes. I'd need new shifters, headset, stem, and cassette, and possibly a clamp for the front derailleur, which was a braze-on. The componentry is scuffed, the crank teeth are a bit rounded, and it's 2004 vintage -- but the set would likely work on the Extralight. Right? Haven’t shopped around for the components I’d need, and don’t even know whether I should use the older stuff I own.

In your opinion, is the Extralight frame, given my riding style, worth building with used parts? I might save some money, but probably not much.

It might be worth mentioning that I've demoed neither frame -- nor any titanium for that matter - and am making the purchase based on my literature review. In general, Ti seems compatible with my desire to invest for the long run, and in sync with my riding preferences.

I'm absolutely sick of obsessing about this purchase -- can you relate? -- and want to put an end to my angst - today. Both bikes are on hold.

Please share your thoughts and advice.

Many thanks.

(I’m 5’8”, 31.5” inseam (using the book method). The Works is a small – 54.5cm top tube, and the Extralight is a 53cm -- also has a 54.5cm top tube).

Let me quickly add that I feel very fortunate indeed to have the money for this purchase, and the luxury to obsess about a bike -- two reasons I'd like to get it right.

[bfd]

Go for it! With all the emphasis on carbon and lowest weight possible, ti is the biggest bargain on the market. In fact, if you don't mind used, there's plenty of used ti framesets out there at a fraction of the price! Recently, a couple of my buddies got fantastic deals on used ti frames. One got a 2000/01 Lemond ti frameset (Reynolds ti tubing) with Reynolds fork, a headset and Record crank/bb for $550! Another got an older Serotta Legend ti with Reynolds fork and CK headset for $600.

Do a search on CL, ebay, roadbikereview, etc. and be patient. Lots of good deals out there.

[Jeff N.]

I own an '05 Merlin Extralight, which is the year the change was made to 1" straight-as-an-arrow chainstays and beefier, tapered down tube, with both the seat tube and down tube ovalized at the BB...oh, and they got rid of that ridiculous integrated headset. It is the lightest Ti ride I own and the BB stiffness is outstanding with the new design. Weld/build quality is top-drawer. You don't say what year your Extralight is, but if it's '05 or later, I can highly recommend it. Jeff N.

[Lee Vining]

Thanks Jeff -- the Extralight is an '09.

[peanutgallery]

+1

I have an Extralight (06) that I have really liked. Plenty stiff, light enough for my taste and a solid descender. Not a fan of sloped top tubes for whatever reason

[avalonracing]

I have a CR Works and it is a very nice bike. (I've had a steel Serotta, a Ti Serotta, and a couple of high end aluminum bikes too). My main mountain bike is now a Ti Seven Sola . Are you catching my drift? I dig Ti and will probably always have one.

As for the CR Works, I'm a climber too and that it does... Very well. My CR is a Large and it is stiffer than the Extralight that I rode. It has a tighter frame but it also has a nice big down tube as the bikes are size specific. Going up is one thing but this bike is also the best descending bike that I have ever ridden and a few guys that I know who rode these as part of a pro sponsorship deal say the same thing.

I would buy the complete CR and just switch out the crank for a compact if you want. If you are a climber you shouldn't need a triple if you have a 11-25 on the back.

[Jeff N.]

+1

I have an Extralight (06) that I have really liked. Plenty stiff, light enough for my taste and a solid descender. Not a fan of sloped top tubes for whatever reasonAbsolutely. No sloping TT's, thanks. Jeff N.

[Lee Vining]

Great feedback. Thank you.

I'm curious to know what you think about either of these prices -- not even close to the deals bfd mentions, but for brand new - what do you think? Are these exceptional deals, in your experience?

And - would you have any qualms about using the 2004 groupset (described in my original post) on the Extralight?

[Jeff N.]

I paid close to 3 grand for my Extralight, new, in '05, so I'd say that's a good deal Colo. Cyclist has going. If they've got your size, jump on it. Jeff N.

[avalonracing]

Both are very nice deals on new bikes. Especially if they come with the original warranty.
Regarding the sloping TT on the CR... I was a guy who said that I wasn't interested in riding a bike with a sloping TT but I decided to give it a shot. I have not been able to find any shortcomings other than it lacks the traditional aesthetic. On the other hand the sloping TT might be one of the reason this bike ride so well and doesn't have the drive train flex that I've experienced on other Ti bikes.

[dekindy]

I may be missing something and hate to rain on your parade, but the Works CR is only available in XL, which is not your size, and I cannot find the Extralight frame you reference anywhere on CC.

??

[dookie]

but the Works CR is only available in XL...

this does appear to be the case at BCO. and as an outlet, they have what they have and that's it.

if, however, that size does work for you...know that BCO items are the pool from which the one at a time bonktown.com items are drawn.

this site (http://bonk.gearattack.com) allows searches of BT (and affiliates) item histories. appears to be unresponsive at the moment, but check this and see if & how much BT was selling the works for. if it's still in stock at BCO, it will likely come back to BT...but you've got to be watching (or have them alert you). the BT price will be far better than BCO!

[Lee Vining]

Thanks all. BCO is holding the S, and has apparently removed it from available inventory. CC has the 51 on hold for the rest of the day. Yes -- I'm Ti-ing up two bikes, but won't for long. BTW, great beta about BT - never knew about the site.

Quick question about sizing, which will end up ruling this purchase.

The Works CR has a 54.5cm tt.
The 51cm Extralight has a 53.5cm tt.
The Extralight's seat tube measures 51c-t
The Works CR seat tube comes in at 47.5cm (compacts would have shorter seat tubes anyway, right?).

Competitive Cyclist's calculator tells me I should look for a 53.5cm tt and at least at least a 54.5cm c-t seat tube, up to a 56, depending on my desired riding position. The Colorado Cyclist calculator tells me I need a 54cm bike, based on the Lemond approach.

Before my fascination with Ti, I demoed a Trek Madone 4.7 - and the 54 came closest to fitting (has a 53.9cm tt).

Would the Works work? Is the Extralight too small?

Many thanks for your advice.

[avalonracing]

Don't worry about the seat tube length. You said that you are 5'8" with a 31.5 inseam? I would think that the Extralight might be a little tight for you but it is hard to say without seeing you on the bike.

If the CR is a speck too long you would always use a post with no set back. I use a no set back Thompson on mine but I like to be a bit more over the pedals so I you zero set back on all of my bikes.

Worse case scenario, you are buying a bike well below retail. If it doesn't work you can always dump it without too hard a hit.

[Lee Vining]

Thanks.

A CC rep just unboxed the Extralight and discovered that the 2009 model has a sloping top tube - not as radical a slope as the Works - but sloping it is. Make a difference, or no?

[Slave2Gus]

Is the measure you have the virtual top tube or the actual? The virtual being the true horizontal distance. It might matter to you. BTW, I own a TR3/2.5 works. Been a nice bike for the last three years or so.

[Lee Vining]

Thanks for your advice. Went with the Works. Too good a deal after using MS Bing - another $300 off, so net price just a tad north of 2k for a mostly Ultegra build, no shipping, no tax. I was told that this year's Extralight is really similar to last year's Works - (sloping tt, stiffer). No questions asked return policy if it doesn't work.

Cheers!

[avalonracing]

Nice job Lee.
Stick around and tell us what you think once you put some miles on her.

[Lee Vining]

Thanks to all for your feedback. I've put about 15 hours on the bike. Here's the afterword: The Merlin Works CR is everything I hoped it would be -- responsive yet stable. Climbs beautifully. No twitch on descents. Sharp and predictable cornering. The size Small (54.5cm top tube) was spot-on.

With the groupset and components and Speedplay steel pedals, the bike weighs in at 18.58 pounds. The frame alone is something like 2.46 pounds. Any recommendations to lighten the load -- over time -- would be appreciated (in order of highest impact to lowest). I'm thinking the wheelset -- Fulcrum 7s -- is probably weighing the thing down the most.

Just a quick plug for Backcountryoutlet.com: the bike arrived as advertised, fast delivery (within two days of purchase using the free shipping option), no missing components. You probably already know that Backcountryoutlet doesn't assemble a thing - complete build required (steering column needs to be cut, etc) - but everything was there. It's the second purchase I've made from them - bought some AT skis a few years ago - and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

Thanks again --

[SoCalSteve]

Thanks to all for your feedback. I've put about 15 hours on the bike. Here's the afterword: The Merlin Works CR is everything I hoped it would be -- responsive yet stable. Climbs beautifully. No twitch on descents. Sharp and predictable cornering. The size Small (54.5cm top tube) was spot-on.

With the groupset and components and Speedplay steel pedals, the bike weighs in at 18.58 pounds. The frame alone is something like 2.46 pounds. Any recommendations to lighten the load -- over time -- would be appreciated (in order of highest impact to lowest). I'm thinking the wheelset -- Fulcrum 7s -- is probably weighing the thing down the most.

Just a quick plug for Backcountryoutlet.com: the bike arrived as advertised, fast delivery (within two days of purchase using the free shipping option), no missing components. You probably already know that Backcountryoutlet doesn't assemble a thing - complete build required (steering column needs to be cut, etc) - but everything was there. It's the second purchase I've made from them - bought some AT skis a few years ago - and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

Thanks again --

+1!

They are a great company to do business with! I wouldnt hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

Enjoy your new bike!

Steve

PS: The wheelset is where you want to shave off the weight more so than anyplace else...If and when you have the $$$, consider getting an all carbon set. There is nothing like the ride quality, speed and great looks of an all carbon rim. Check out this all carbon wheelset on my Moots (Ti bike) (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=687782&postcount=1)

[avalonracing]

Glad to hear it Lee.
I've had some nice bikes and my CR is probably the best ride I've had. It's light, fast and tracks on descents like it is on rails. It is smooth as my old Ti Serotta yet stiffer on climbs and sprints. A year from now you'll like it even more.

[dekindy]

Did you keep the compact? Based upon your climbing ability I would have recommended the compact. It would be prefereable over a triple's extra weight and added complexity of keeping a triple adjusted.

I am glad you like it. I love my Serotta Legend and would never consider another bike. Bare Ti is the only way to go if you can find an affordable frame, ATMO.

[csm]

slight move off topic but I concur with the Backcountry comments as far as how good they are; including their outlets steepandcheap, bonktown, etc. as much as I like to keep things local and support local businesses I buy from them often. mostly ski and camp gear. never had a problem.