Plastic Surgery on my Legend or No?

[dirtdigger88]

Ok- style police- help me out. When I ordered my Legend one of the things that I wanted was to have no spacers under my stem. I got just that- but now I wonder if that is really what I want. I am seriously torn here. Look at the picture of my bike- what do you folks think about having the HT extension cut down to the .7 cm that is the standard height. I could then run one 1 cm spacer (and actually drop my bars by .5cm) This is a total vanity project- kinda like a nose job or something. I have spoken to Serotta- they can do it. What do you folks think- will the style points be worth the effort. Let is rip too folks- don't hold back- I am asking for your OPINION

Thanks
Jason

[M_A_Martin]

My opinion Jason?

If you want to do it...do it.
If you need to drop your bars .5cm...do it. (can't you find a stem to do the same thing?)

My other opinion is I don't get why so many people are so adamant about the HT extension looking "ugly". If your bars have to be up that high ("that high" being relative), you may as well have it designed in as part of the bike. Spacers on a custom ti bike look like you didn't think about that when you had the bike built or that perhaps you're not sure of your flexibilty when you had the fit done (my excuse) or maybe the bike wasn't fit for you. Nothing wrong with spacers...I just think they're ugly.

[hooverone]

You asked for honest.

Why have your perfectly good frame cut so you can put in a plastic spacer, why subject your frame to being held while somehting cuts it, why subject the welds to the force that is required and why spend the time sending it to serotta so yuo can use a plastic spacer.

If it fits you leave it alone and be happy.


Jim

[William]

Looks good to me (except your stem and your post are too short :D )

Why mess with a good thing....unless you really want to?

William

[Richard]

All things being equal, I think that this bike would look better with a -17 stem and the headtube left alone than with the -10 (?) and a shorter headtube and a spacer.

[Big Dan]

Dirt, the bike looks fine...worry about something else........... :bike:

[djg]

It's your bike and your dime. But the head tube extension doesn't look at all excessive to me and I'd be disinclined to muck with it. Plus, all sorts of changes to the stem and bars might be more conspicuous visually than the removal of a bit off the top of the head tube--so even if I were going for a slightly different looking front end (and I'm not pushing that), I'd play with these variables first.

[PsyDoc]

I have a HT extension as well and it took some getting used to, but I figured I'd rather have the HT extension over the spacers. I think your bike looks fine, but it boils down to how you feel. 'Cause, if you do not like it, you will likely spend less time riding it.

[Louis]

Jason,

Why do you want to drop the bars? If you absolutely have to do that for a fit/performance reason, then do the surgery. If you don't, then why bother? If it's just looks, it's not worth the hassle or the $. (IMO)

Another option is to build-up a completely different frame with no extension... A whole new fram is a lot better than tweaking an older one!

Louis

[dave thompson]

Opinion: Get rid of the fugly Forgie stem and get a -17 Ti stem. You will achieve the same bar drop you *want*, and you will receive double style points for having matching stem with no spacers!

[Bradford]

I like the way it looks now. I wouldn't change a thing.

[dirtdigger88]

Opinion: Get rid of the fugly Forgie stem and get a -17 Ti stem. You will achieve the same bar drop you *want*, and you will receive double style points for having matching stem with no spacers!

Yes I know the forgie is fugly- it is on there while I play with stem length. I actually had three forgies (100- 120- 130) that some one once gave me. It is cheaper than buying a bunch of expensive stems to try out. Who to go to on the ti stem?

I am not all that interested in dropping the bars per say- they are .5 higher than what I really want- but that is not the issue. I am just not sure if the lack of spacers looks right. I guess it is kind of like the reason I think most people are turned off by the new DA cranks- the lack of a bolt hole on the drive side- mentally you "expect" something to be there- when it is not- it looks off. I am guessing it will be less of an issue with a Thomson stem (silver) back on- it all flows better. Thanks all for the imput

Jason

[slowgoing]

Take the money it would have cost and invest it in your retirement plan.

[alembical]

I am a fan of the no spacers and I think the Ti stem would also be a good look. I think the bike looks great, but I do think a -15 or so stem that would be perfectly horizontal (or match the tt slope) would look even better and would also lower the bars a little more.

Alembical

[cinelli]

If you to really achieve the look you want, simply order a new frame and let some deserving Serotta forum member (like me!!!!) buy your current Legend for peanuts. I have been saving my peanuts and it looks like your Legend is a fit! ;)

Seriously, try Dave Thompson's suggestion and save some serious cash. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[dirtdigger88]

Take the money it would have cost and invest it in your retirement plan.

I am so tired of investing all my damn money I want to spend some. :p Between myself and mrs dirt we are investing 20% now- and I have been doing that for 10 years and I am 34 (35 next week) :D

jason

[dave thompson]

Jason: IMO, FWIW, a headtube extension is eminently better looking than a stack of spacers. To my eye, spacers can make a bike look unfinished, improperly designed for the rider or both.

Aside from the Forgie 'issue', your bike looks correct and balanced. If you are going to keep a black stem and rims, get a black seatpost.

[dirtdigger88]

Jason: IMO, FWIW, a headtube extension is eminently better looking than a stack of spacers. To my eye, spacers can a bike look unfinished, improperly designed or both.

Aside from the Forgie 'issue', your bike looks correct and balanced. If you are going to keep a black stem and rims, get a black seatpost.

I am going back to a silver Thomson- thanks for the compliment though.
Ok it looks like everyone is in agreement- I am just being too anal (actually I have been looking at P&L's and Budgets waaaaaay tooooo looooong so far today.

Jason

[musgravecycles]

Jason,
It is really up to you what to do with it. Like others have mentioned you can save some $$ by leaving it like it is. In the end the choice is up to you. My opinion is that I would cut it and put about 10-15mm spacers in. I think that it would look more balanced that way, but that is just my personal opinion. This reminds me of a conversation we had about two weeks ago. We were sitting around laying a frame out on the fixture, and were trying to figure out how many spacers gave the appropriate balance to the bike, our argument eventually turned to stem angles. It was a funny conversation because there were 3 framebuilders arguing about the 'correct' number. In the end do what ever makes you happy. If you notice it everytime you look at the bike, cut it, if it doesn't bother you, then save yourself some $$ so you can go buy a new
stem ; )
-Jason

[Ozz]

Jason: IMO, FWIW, a headtube extension is eminently better looking than a stack of spacers. To my eye, spacers can make a bike look unfinished, improperly designed for the rider or both.

Aside from the Forgie 'issue', your bike looks correct and balanced. If you are going to keep a black stem and rims, get a black seatpost.
Dave is a wise man and you should listen to him!

No matter how you slice it, spacers are ugly....and a solution for a bike that is not the right size...besides, when you are riding your bike, you can't see the HT extension...

If you want to spend some money, get another set of wheels.... ;)

BTW - the Rams suck, unfortunately, just not as much as the Seahawks! :cool:

[dirtdigger88]

Ozz- I am only talking about one 1cm spacer- not a stack of 4 or 5. and yes the Rams do suck- anytime you back into the playoffs- you suck. I quit watching them months ago.

jason

[Serotta PETE]

I am going back to a silver Thomson- thanks for the compliment though.
Ok it looks like everyone is in agreement- I am just being too anal (actually I have been looking at P&L's and Budgets waaaaaay tooooo looooong so far today.

Jason

Bike looks great. Change the stem and leave the HT as it is. I would much rather have it the way you have it then cut down with spacers. Spacers serve a purpose to get stem height up -- -it not a nice alternative just a way to get adjustability with threadless.

We are all anal about our bikes........ :butt:

[OldDog]

IMO if you want a bike that "looks right", get a CSI or Sachs with a 1" threaded fork and a Cinelli or 3T stem. :D

Your's is a fine looking Legend <AS IS> with the extension. A silver stem would look very nice.

[Ahneida Ride]

Looks fine !!

Sweet bike. !!!! Perhaps a silver stem ????

[Jeff N.]

Guess I'm the only one who LIKES spacers. I ordered several 3mm silver and black ones (24mm worth)from CK for my Legend Ti. Looks great. But as for your bike:
1. Leave the HT extension alone.
2. Dump the Forgie and get an ITM Millenium or the like (shorter stack height than your Forgie). Then you can add some spacers...a few mm's worth anyway. My current favorite stem is the ITM Forged Lite Lux Super Over. Has a solid feel and 4 bolt design that I favor. Makes me feel just a little more secure.
But anyway, leave the extension alone.
And speaking of the Lambs and Hee-Hawks, how about my CHARGERS blowing a game on a friggin missed 39 yard field goal that would've won it? It'll take me a little while to get over THAT! I was THERE! When the ref signaled no good, my heart sunk!!!! :crap: Jeff N.

[CalfeeFly]

Listen to Dave and all who had a like answer. Don't get angry but succinctly cutting a frame is nuts.

BTW does anal retentive have hyphen?

[pbbob]

Guess I'm the only one who LIKES spacers. I ordered several 3mm silver and black ones (24mm worth) for my Legend Ti. Looks great. But as for your bike:
1. Leave the HT extension alone.
2. Dump the Forgie and get an ITM Millenium or the like (shorter stack height than your Forgie). Then you can add some spacers...a few mm's worth anyway. My current favorite stem is the ITM Forged Lite Lux Super Over. Has a solid feel and 4 bolt design that I favor. Makes me feel just a little more secure.
But anyway, leave the extension alone.
And speaking of the Lambs and Hee-Hawks, how about my CHARGERS blowing a game on a friggin missed 39 yard field goal that would've won it? It'll take me a little while to get over THAT! I was THERE! When the ref signaled no good, my heart sunk!!!! :crap: Jeff N.
All of us in redskins land could see the marty ball implosion coming.
anyways I like the frame as it is. sounds like dirt just needs to ride more.

[John H.]

Opinion- Sell it, get a Legend sized small enough to run a -6 degree Ritchey stem and 1cm of spacers. You could get the new machined headtube (and bb shell for that matter) on the bike.

[musgravecycles]

[QUOTE=Pete Mckeon] Spacers serve a purpose to get stem height up -- -it not a nice alternative just a way to get adjustability with threadless.

I must disagree. It is true that spacers serve the purpose of raising the handle bar, but they also serve to provide for adjustability. With a quill stem you can simply raise or lower the stem itself, but with threadless you must provide a mechanism for adjustment. A position on a bike isn’t a static thing; it changes throughout the course of time. During the off-season you might want to raise it up a bit to provide for more comfort. As the season progresses and your back/hamstrings loosen up you can lower the handlebars to a more efficient position (even the pro’s change positions occasionally). Therefore on a bike without spacers your only option is to use stems with varying angles, which isn’t all that economical. One doesn’t need to go crazy with spacers, but using a few is a simple way of accounting for mother natures effects on all of us.

[coylifut]

Boredom. There's nothing wrong with the look of this bike what so ever. You no it, I know it, everyone knows it. You just want to tinker with it. It must be winter. Go spend all your ebay, forum ....time hunting down that perfect track frame and components. Maybe by the time your done, the drome will be ready.

[dave thompson]

BTW - the Rams suck, unfortunately, just not as much as the Seahawks! :cool:
Man, you got that real right! Argh!

'Course I'm old school. Jim Zorn, Dave Kriege, Kenny Easly, Steve Largent Dr. Dan Doornink, et al. In those days, if they lost it was a classy, well played, exciting 'good' loss. Not some overpaid, crybaby 1-year sportshero of today loss.

[chrisroph]

Look at it as what it really is--a function issue. You need to drop your bars by 5mm. Get a stem that accomplishes that. Leave your bike alone. Don't spend time and money cutting yout headtube. If you want to play with aesthetics, go paint a couple of rooms in your house.

[dirtdigger88]

Look at it as what it really is--a function issue. You need to drop your bars by 5mm. Get a stem that accomplishes that. Leave your bike alone. Don't spend time and money cutting yout headtube. If you want to play with aesthetics, go paint a couple of rooms in your house.

Like I said the 5mm is not the issue really it is the look- as far as painting rooms in my house- NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! I just finished rehabbing my 100 year old house top to bottom- Two years in all- four months without a kitchen. I will be doing no painting for quite some time

Jason

[slowgoing]

How much will it cost to cut the head tube? I wanna know how much you're willing to spend on this exercise in vanity.

Plus, if you drop the stem, won't you also have to cut the steerer tube on the fork? Or do you also plan on putting a spacer on top of the stem?

[dirtdigger88]

How much will it cost to cut the head tube? I wanna know how much you're willing to spend on this exercise in vanity.

Plus, if you drop the stem, won't you also have to cut the steerer tube on the fork? Or do you also plan on putting a spacer on top of the stem?


Around $100 to cut the HT- yes I would have to then cut the steerer down as well

Jason

[slowgoing]

that's nothing. I'd do it, especially if you can break down and build back up the bike yourself for no cost.

[Jeff N.]

that's nothing. I'd do it, especially if you can break down and build back up the bike yourself for no cost.Not necessary to cut down the steerer. Simply add a spacer on top of your stem! Jeff N.

[dirtdigger88]

Not necessary to cut down the steerer. Simply add a spacer on top of your stem! Jeff N.

Agreed- but if I am being anal enough to consider this whole thing in the first place- do you think I am going to be happy with a spacer on top of the stem? :no:

jason

[Jeff N.]

Sure you will! It looks cool! Really! I see it all the time. Looks fine. Honest!
Jeff N.

[FierteTi52]

Hey Dirtdigger,
Why don't you spend the $100.00 on the newly designed Thomsom Elite road stem in silver. The new stem has really clean lines compared to the original design. Either way, you have a great looking bike.
Jeff

[mokmu]

Jason you said to be honest. From the first time I saw your bike, I liked everything except the HT extension. Especially since it does not appear to be necessary. I say chop it. And if you ever need to get even lower, at least you'd have the option (with out having to go to a track stem). I think 1-2cm of spacers looks just fine.
Michael

[Jeff N.]

I agree. Go with the new Thompson! It'll take your mind right off the other stuff! Jeff N. :beer:

[M_A_Martin]

Hmmm, I'm glad someone else said that you're spending too much time looking at your bike and not enough time riding it Jason!

Here's the solution. Leave the Serotta alone, contact Mr. Kirk. Buy the Terrplane. You'll solve so many problems this way:
1 You'll spend money
2 You'll have another bike to look at so you won't mind the ht extension so much on the Serotta
3 You'll be in the doghouse with Mrs. Dirt so you'll be trying to figure out how to make her happy and not worrying so much about the look of your Serotta


See? Problem solved.

[vaxn8r]

Count me as one of the few that thinks some spacers look good. Honestly how many people used a quill stem slammed all the way down with no neck exposed? Not many. So when I see a threadless set up like yours, it looks a little off to me. Just my opinion. Plus I like what Musgrave said, you have no ability to lower it as it sits now.

$100? I'd do it if I thought I'd like it better.

[jerk]

cut the thing. it looks bad when not matched to a matching seat tube extension and you need your bars lower....cut the thing off. -17degree ahead stems look really stupid on bikes with gears.....100 bucks? the shop that sold it to you should do the job for free....if they can't they have no business selling bikes of that caliber. otherwise go look for that -25 degree track stem ....it's on german ebay right now......except it's quill and the reserve is 200 euros and it doesn't exist because the jerk just made it up.
jerk
(matt barkeley and the jerk have both done the operation on alot of pegorettis)

[Peter]

That bike needs SOMETHING...with that stem bottomed out on the headset it looks stunted or inbred or...that stem DOES need the appearance of some height to it. It looks like a birth defect, and I'm not joking.

And when you're done fixing that, you HAVE TO do something about that seatpost. The zero-setback look along with that seat makes it appear as if the seat's way too forward on the rails; a real "amateur" look if I ever saw it. If I saw that on your bike while riding, I'd have second thoughts before I let you into the paceline...

[csb]

aesthetics? ... it could use a spacer.

stem? ... MOOTS

you're welcome

[dirtdigger88]

That bike needs SOMETHING...with that stem bottomed out on the headset it looks stunted or inbred or...that stem DOES need the appearance of some height to it. It looks like a birth defect, and I'm not joking.

And when you're done fixing that, you HAVE TO do something about that seatpost. The zero-setback look along with that seat makes it appear as if the seat's way too forward on the rails; a real "amateur" look if I ever saw it. If I saw that on your bike while riding, I'd have second thoughts before I let you into the paceline...

you are going to stop me from riding anywhere I want- please- 100 guys on Harleys could not stop me at the TdFL- how are you going to stop me

Jason

[csb]

... that one motorcyclemamma ADMIRED dirts post

... parenthetically, i do see peters posts point ... but please pointing
at another persons post whilst pedaling in a paceline is plain pap, particularly
if perpetrated by A peter.

[93legendti]

I like HT extension more than spacers...besides how much time do you spend looking at it? :D

[Sandy]

The question was "Plastic Surgery on my Legend or No?" The answer is brain surgery on the owner for even thinking about it. :)

The bike looks great as it is.

M A makes an excellent point- If you want to do it...do it. You might be unhappy if you don't.

Musgravecycles makes the best point- Spacers add greatly to adjustability. Cyclists simply seem to forget that as they are so focused on the aesthetics of the bike.

Your bike is truly beautiful as it is. Leave it alone, unless it really bothers you.

Only in the USA are we so fortunate to even be able to consider things of this nature.

Not so beautiful,

Sandy

[Climb01742]

i also like spacers. of course, i also like sloping TT. and the way the DA10 crank looks. so clearly i have NO taste. :rolleyes:

[dirtdigger88]

naw dude, you taste good. . . oh, did I say that out loud- sorry

jason

[pale scotsman]

Hey Jason, you can't be all that anal with your computer magnet lined up the way it is. ;) Get that puppy opposite the valve stem, chop the head tube and live happily ever after with a ritchey wcs stem and a setback post. :beer:

[Keith A]

Hi Jason,

I sort of fell off the forum for a little while -- vacation, surfing, riding, car repairs and work have been keeping me occupied.

I agree with most of the comments here, which is to save the money and spend it on something else. You are basically happy with your position -- which is the most important issue and you can change the drop by going with a stem that has less of a rise. I took your picture and put a -17 degree Thomson stem on it to see what your bike would look like with this setup. This was a quick photo hack, so don't examine it too closely :D

[Kurt]

please. ;) imo I don't think the frames look that hot either way, but I went the adjustment route, 1cm on the top and bottom, hate positive stems. here is mine with a 3mm ext. want to make your bike look better, then get campy :D or a king hs with no writing, like anyone ever noticed - stupid. want more pics let me know. oh, I think the ht is butted, so you really should not mess with it anyway. :no:

[Kurt]

Hi Jason,

I sort of fell off the forum for a little while -- vacation, surfing, riding, car repairs and work have been keeping me occupied.

I agree with most of the comments here, which is to save the money and spend it on something else. You are basically happy with your position -- which is the most important issue and you can change the drop by going with a stem that has less of a rise. I took your picture and put a -17 degree Thomson stem on it to see what your bike would look like with this setup. This was a quick photo hack, so don't examine it too closely :D

that is pretty slick - I thought his current stem was around a 17, no? looks great.

[Keith A]

Kurt,

The TTT Forgie has an angle of 80° or 100° depending on which way it is flipped. On Jason's bike he has it at 80°, so it's about 7° off from being flat on top.

As for the PS job, I'm actually using Paint Shop Pro and it isn't too hard to accomplish some photo edits like this. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

[dirtdigger88]

Ok here is what I am going to do for now- I ordered a new Thomson road stem- it should be in- in a week or so. I also ordered a set back seat post due to a few "pros" that I spoke to via email (not Pete and his sharp wit) The Thomson has a lowers stack height than the old thomsons and the forgie for that matter. One thing Keith- thanks for the photo editing- but Thomson stems dont come in a -17- only a -10. I do think that if you look at this picture below- the transition between stem and head set looks cleaner with the silver stem than it does with the black. Thanks all for the imput- and one last thing- Kurt- clean that bike man!!!! I did originally have a much longer post with much more wit and sarcasm- but the site went down this afternoon at the same time I was trying to post so I lost 15 minutes worth of typing- such is life. again thanks

Jason

[Keith A]

Jason -- You are correct my friend. For some reason, I thought that the new Elite X2 came in a -17°. However, I checked the sizes (http://www.lhthomson.com/elite_x2_sizes.asp) and it is only available in a +/-10° angle.

[Jeff N.]

Where did you order the NEW silver Thompson stem? I'm finding them hard to locate. Jeff N.

[dirtdigger88]

Big Shark of course

http://bigshark.com/site/intro.cfm

they called their distributor-and Thomson

jason

[Kurt]

Ok here is what I am going to do for now- I ordered a new Thomson road stem- it should be in- in a week or so. I also ordered a set back seat post due to a few "pros" that I spoke to via email (not Pete and his sharp wit) The Thomson has a lowers stack height than the old thomsons and the forgie for that matter. One thing Keith- thanks for the photo editing- but Thomson stems dont come in a -17- only a -10. I do think that if you look at this picture below- the transition between stem and head set looks cleaner with the silver stem than it does with the black. Thanks all for the imput- and one last thing- Kurt- clean that bike man!!!! I did originally have a much longer post with much more wit and sarcasm- but the site went down this afternoon at the same time I was trying to post so I lost 15 minutes worth of typing- such is life. again thanks

Jason

I ride bikes, unlike some stem color changers around here :p no really, the weather in la has sucked that I am going to hold off any cleaning until the summer. why are you screwing around with set back posts and the like, I mean if your bike fits then ride the fricken thing. btw, campy make a nice setback with tons of adjustment.

[dirtdigger88]

Kurt- long story- if interested email me and i will go over all the gorie details. by the way you should see my Legend right now- looks more like a cross bike post race than a road bike-

jason

[Kurt]

Kurt- long story- if interested email me and i will go over all the gorie details. by the way you should see my Legend right now- looks more like a cross bike post race than a road bike-

jason

air out the sorted details :banana: :eek: :D

[bcm119]

Dirtdigger- are you serious about ordering a seatpost with set back?

[dirtdigger88]

yes why

kurt check your email

jason

[Kurt]

yes why

kurt check your email

jason

j/k! :)

[dirtdigger88]

;)

jason

[va rider]

Jason -

Since we ride the same size frame, I will swap you even for my CIII which only has the 1.5cm extension you desire. I'm such a good sport, I will cover your shipping.

Seriously, don't cut it, I love that bike. It looks mean.

[bcm119]

I ask because I have a zero-setback post too, I also don't like the way it looks, but I can't get the right position with a setback post. I've considered some really small setback posts, like a Shimano or Chorus post. Will your position still be okay with setback?

[Lifelover]

Jason,
If you notice it everytime you look at the bike , cut it, if it doesn't bother you, then save yourself some $$ so you can go buy a new
stem ; )
-Jason

The look is off because of the head tube but Jason said it best. You should not own a bike that you don't enjoy looking at.

[jhurwitz]

Ok- style police- help me out. When I ordered my Legend one of the things that I wanted was to have no spacers under my stem. I got just that- but now I wonder if that is really what I want. I am seriously torn here. Look at the picture of my bike- what do you folks think about having the HT extension cut down to the .7 cm that is the standard height. I could then run one 1 cm spacer (and actually drop my bars by .5cm) This is a total vanity project- kinda like a nose job or something. I have spoken to Serotta- they can do it. What do you folks think- will the style points be worth the effort. Let is rip too folks- don't hold back- I am asking for your OPINION

Thanks
Jason

I understand your concern. when I bought my Ottrott ST I was concerned about a HT being to tall. I had a compact frame (61 cm) and wanted the TT and HT to intersect at a point where there was not much stack left on the HT. SO I got spacers, and I prefer it. For your bike though there is not much overrun on the HT. Strikes me as not worth it.

JSH