OT Steve Jobs liver transplant

[rwsaunders]

Did he deserve to be a recipient? Was he given preferential treatment? Any thoughts out there?

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/06/20/inside-steve-jobs-liver-transplant

[MattTuck]

Did he deserve to be a recipient? Was he given preferential treatment? Any thoughts out there?

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/06/20/inside-steve-jobs-liver-transplant

Is money green?

Edit: To be clear, yes on both counts.

Deserve it? He is one of a very few people on this planet who has created tremendous amounts of joy, prosperity and wealth for customers of apple, its employees and its investors, in that order. The cold hard facts are simple, he is more productive (from an economic sense) than virtually any other potential recipient, and in aggregate the world is better off keeping him alive than other "normal" folks.

Did he get special treatment? Yes.

[rwsaunders]

I'm a little in the dark about the whole process, as I understand that there are now living donor programs that are somewhat new for liver recipients.

I hate being a skeptic regarding one's worth and the ability to procure a transplant, but this should be a discussion. I'm thinking David Crosby and Bob Casey, a former Governor of PA.

[avalonracing]

The living donor transplant has great potential.
Last year my brother and I were trying to get my mother a new liver from a living donor but Hopkins would not do it because of my mother's other conditions.

I think anyone who hasn't mangled their body with booze, smoking and fat deserves a transplant. What pissed me off was the Cancer patients at Hopkins who would wheel their IV cart outside to the smoking areas and light up.

[Richard]

so matt, assuming your definition of deserving, would you be less inclined to consider him deserving if, notwithstanding your value equation, he was a drunk, drug using debaucher who had caused his own liver problem? I am not accusing anyone of that behavior, but I am curious and a bit reticent about adding a value statement to transplant lists. Others might argue that the products that have been proferred by Apple are, by and large, consumer dross and add little value to the human condition.

[Louis]

Maybe he got if from some unlucky Chinese prisoner who matched the required profile, in which case it's OK because it was just the market at it's very best...

[goonster]

living donor programs

http://jdbar.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/live-organ-transplants.jpg

[rcnute]

http://jdbar.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/live-organ-transplants.jpg

All right. You've talked me into it.

[MattTuck]

but I am curious and a bit reticent about adding a value statement to transplant lists. Others might argue that the products that have been proferred by Apple are, by and large, consumer dross and add little value to the human condition.

Agreed. Not saying that I support a widespread "value" criteria or forced ranking on potential recipients. Just saying that in this particular case, his ability to add value to society is greater than the average person. (Yes, he may have just been extremely lucky with Apple, Pixar and Apple again, but he seems to have a knack for creating jobs and wealth for people). Not to say that Uncle Buck (or anyone else) isn't just as deserving in a particular way, just that Jobs sits at the base of a tree that MANY people depend on.

[H1449-6]

Agreed. Not saying that I support a widespread "value" criteria or forced ranking on potential recipients. Just saying that in this particular case, his ability to add value to society is greater than the average person. (Yes, he may have just been extremely lucky with Apple, Pixar and Apple again, but he seems to have a knack for creating jobs and wealth for people). Not to say that Uncle Buck (or anyone else) isn't just as deserving in a particular way, just that Jobs sits at the base of a tree that MANY people depend on.

I agree. And Jobs' serial success is anything but luck.

[Dekonick]

He is going to need a heart transplant soon...

I have had a palm pre for 2 days now and honestly can say FINALLY there is a product to give the iphone a challenge.

Back to transplants....

what about when Crosby got a liver after he pickled his first one?

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-45170089.html

Nothing in life is fair. Sucks, but true.

along the same vein... how do yall feel about donors getting $$ for parts? A kidney for your life savings.... anyone?

[paulh]

Special treatment? Two words. Mickey Mantle.

[gemship]

I watched the Sunday evening news, forget which station buy they posed this very same question. Did he get preferential treatment. Well one reasoning was that he traveled to Tennessee where the list of recipients is short thus not having to wait as long. I can sort of believe that. I mean how many people in need of a liver have the means and will to move away from home to wherever in the country or world to get what they need?

[gemship]

Is money green?

Edit: To be clear, yes on both counts.
The cold hard facts are simple, he is more productive (from an economic sense) than virtually any other potential recipient, and in aggregate the world is better off keeping him alive than other "normal" folks.

.


Not in god's eyes. Any good ole' Christian would point that out but it sounds good anyways.

[overthehil]

The wealthy and famous buy themselves preferential treatment for organ transplants in some way or another almost every day. They don't need any special favours based on their worth to society.

I don't make any judgments about Steve Jobs situation, because I know liver transplants can be different than other solid organ transplants, however, according to the latest news reports, it was from the waiting list. This usually goes by waiting time but matching and medical urgency take precedence. As to who decides whose case is most urgent, I don't know.

[duke]

The guy with the most money always gets the best treatment. Always has. It doesn't matter if you inherit it or earn it. Is it fair? Who said anything about fair. You can't handle fair....
duke

[MarleyMon]

Looks like Apple stock dropped a bit. The thought is that lack of transparency on this issue is the reason.
Also might be a misrepresentation that in Jan. Apple said he had only a hormone imbalance.
They haven't even admitted he had surgery, and its not a private matter when you're a CEO (even if he is nominally in absentia)

[Karin Kirk]

Looks like Apple stock dropped a bit. The thought is that lack of transparency on this issue is the reason.
Also might be a misrepresentation that in Jan. Apple said he had only a hormone imbalance.
They haven't even admitted he had surgery, and its not a private matter when you're a CEO (even if he is nominally in absentia)

It was down quite a bit yesterday so I bought some. It's up again this morning, but we'll see...
Seems like a strong company overall, with an impressive supply of new, cool ideas and great design/packaging/marketing skills.

[Ray]

Not in god's eyes. Any good ole' Christian would point that out but it sounds good anyways.
OK, but they have to wait until god gets around to giving them a new liver. And if you believe that god is involved in every decision anyway, then god obviously valued Steve Jobs more than your average schmoe. Maybe god has an iPhone?

I just got an iPhone a few days ago and I'm sitting on the beach typing on it at the moment. As much as I dug my Blackberry, this puts it to shame in so many ways. I'm with god - we gotta keep Jobs alive. We're losing too many jobs as it is.

-Ray

[Dekonick]

Ray - just curious -

Did you check out the Palm Pre?

[Ray]

Ray - just curious -

Did you check out the Palm Pre?
Yeah. Really dug it too. But only 8 gig, not expandable. And their 3g network doesn't compare to the AT&T network around here. It also didn't play wma files, like the iPhone doesn't, so that was a strike against both of them. I also checked out the about to be released google phone from t-mobile, but other issues and no 3g coverage in my area. All tradeoffs, but the iPhone still seems slightly ahead of the others.

-Ray

[RPS]

All tradeoffs, but the iPhone still seems slightly ahead of the others.

-RayI don’t have one yet, but got to play with my son’s and liked it a lot -- he upgraded from the old to new iphone last week. A nice feature I’d like to have when exploring on long bike rides is the new compass which makes GPS use even more effective. The improved camera and video capabilities would be nice also in case one finds something of interest unexpectedly. And the built-in level is cool too. Now we can measure all angles on a bike by just holding an iphone up to the frame. :rolleyes:

[Ray]

I hadn't discovered the level yet - I guess there's an app to take advantage of it I'll have to look for (some things it takes an engineer to find!). The Blackberry was a great utilitarian tool, but the iPhone now has almost as much utility and is waaaay more fun.

-Ray

[Dekonick]

Interesting. I have found that Sprint 3g is fantastic in Baltimore/DC. I also lookede at the same phones and found the pre the best phone. The iphone is one cool gadget, but not what I want in a phone. Physical keyboard is key -

I was suprised there isn't any memory upgrade slot, but as a phone if you can use 8GB (especially when the aps all are linux/java/html based and use almost no room) I am impressed. I only need a gig or so of mp3's as pandora is what I prefer to use so as long as I have access to wifi or 3g - no need for a music library.

I don't like the blackberry interface.

What is certain is the next 2 years will see some serious smartphone development. I am glad there is FINALLY competition as it should spur inovation.

BTW Palm Pre was developed by an ex top Apple exec...

back to threat topic - its hard to think that money doesn't buy better care in many cases. In everything except emergency medicine I honestly believe it does.

Life isn't fair.

[Climb01742]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oAB83Z1ydE

[Ray]

Interesting. I have found that Sprint 3g is fantastic in Baltimore/DC. I also lookede at the same phones and found the pre the best phone. The iphone is one cool gadget, but not what I want in a phone. Physical keyboard is key -

I was suprised there isn't any memory upgrade slot, but as a phone if you can use 8GB (especially when the aps all are linux/java/html based and use almost no room) I am impressed. I only need a gig or so of mp3's as pandora is what I prefer to use so as long as I have access to wifi or 3g - no need for a music library.

I don't like the blackberry interface.

What is certain is the next 2 years will see some serious smartphone development. I am glad there is FINALLY competition as it should spur inovation.

BTW Palm Pre was developed by an ex top Apple exec...

back to threat topic - its hard to think that money doesn't buy better care in many cases. In everything except emergency medicine I honestly believe it does.

Life isn't fair.
All of em have good G3 in Philly, but only AT&T does out in the exurbs where I live. Lack of physical keyboard was a downside, but after just a couple of days, I've gotten very comfortable with the virtual one, so less of an issue than I expected. I have 23 gigs of music on here, so memory was pretty key to me. But, yeah, competition is really pushing all of these folks and we're all benefitting from it.

-Ray

[RPS]

Did he deserve to be a recipient? Was he given preferential treatment? Any thoughts out there? Just saw on CNBC where Dr. James Eason of Methodist University Hospital strongly denied Jobs received any preferential treatment. OTOH that doesn’t mean Jobs couldn’t have used his vast resources to improve his chances. Who wouldn't under the circumstances?