Stainless Steel

[hainy1]

I remember when 953 first hit the market not many frame builder were using it because dialing in ride characteristics was limited due to lack of tubing varieties. Is this still the case?
Cheers Hainy

[Chris]

http://serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60668

[hainy1]

Thanks Chris but how does that answer my question

[dekindy]

You asked a general question and Chris gave you a very specific answer.

1. All it takes is one builder that can tune 953 tubing ride characterists with a reasonable delivery to make you a bike. Here is one that can do it.

2. If you do a little research you will find that Dave Ellis has one multiple awards at NAHBS and has an impeccable pedigree of working with steel at Serotta and Waterford, undisputedly two of the best, and is successful on his own.

At least that is what it says to me.

This is just an example of one highly skilled builder and there are others, Larger custom builders like Waterford and Independent Fabrication have 953 bikes. And there are one-man custom builders like Dave Ellis to name one. If you have the bucks and the desire for a 953 bike the market can supply it.

If you want a general answer, the answer is no. 953 was never intended for large scale production and there is a limited supply of tubes, so there will never be a large scale number of builders. Maybe someone else has a more specific handle on average lead times. However a reasonable delivery time can be had from several sources. Reasonable being a relative term because there are some very long lead times(years not months or weeks) for the most desired custom builders and customers are willing to wait.

[gman]

You asked a general question and Chris gave you a very specific answer.

1. All it takes is one builder that can tune 953 tubing ride characterists with a reasonable delivery to make you a bike. Here is one that can do it.

2. If you do a little research you will find that Dave Ellis has one multiple awards at NAHBS and has an impeccable pedigree of working with steel at Serotta and Waterford, undisputedly two of the best, and is successful on his own.

At least that is what it says to me.

This is just an example of one highly skilled builder and there are others, Larger custom builders like Waterford and Independent Fabrication have 953 bikes. And there are one-man custom builders like Dave Ellis to name one. If you have the bucks and the desire for a 953 bike the market can supply it.

If you want a general answer, the answer is no. 953 was never intended for large scale production and there is a limited supply of tubes, so there will never be a large scale number of builders. Maybe someone else has a more specific handle on average lead times. However a reasonable delivery time can be had from several sources. Reasonable being a relative term because there are some very long lead times(years not months or weeks) for the most desired custom builders and customers are willing to wait.

Thanks for explaining it, because I didn't get any of that out of the response either.

[Chris]

I wasn't trying to be glib, I just thought that the link would show that there are guys out there that are doing it and doing it well. Dekindy did a great job of explaining my post. I appreciate the translation.

[dumbod]

I talked about this with one very prominent builder at NAHBS in February. He makes bikes with 953 but said that, in his opinion, given how expensive the material is, Ti is a much better alternative than 953.

[dekindy]

I talked about this with one very prominent builder at NAHBS in February. He makes bikes with 953 but said that, in his opinion, given how expensive the material is, Ti is a much better alternative than 953.

I think that I would agree. However since I have not actually ridden a 953 frame I would reserve final judgment.

I already have a Serotta Legend and would not trade it for anything! If I did not have the Legend and was looking to treat myself to a retirement bike or reward myself for a great achievement, a 953 would be at the top of my list. Have you seen one in person? When you do I think you will know what I mean!

[rustychain]

953 has some advantage over ti if you disregard costs IMO. Much harder then ti and very dent/scratch resistant. It tends to make a stiffer ride at a given weight (specific geometry is still more critical). I have put mega miles on ti (carbon too) and over 18000 miles on 953. I have had bad crashes on my ti and 953. The 953 never got a scratch even as I was carried away on a body board. Cheap to buy its not but your looking at a custom frame that will most likely be around after your gone. IMO that's a good value

New tubes are becoming available and Reynolds has made some custom runs that are very thin (light weight) I saw a frame made "down under" that's a true weight weenie frame but much stiffer then the light ti bikes I have tried.

Do not expect to see the pro teams on 953 ever (I do know some pros have a personal 953 hidden in the garage however). Its not that the performance is in any way lacking and its easy to build a 953 to the 6.8 UCI min weight. Its economics and marketing concerns

[mschoeffler]

I'll give you what little I know and maybe Dave will chime in. First, that is my bike Chris posted (and built up for me). In talking with Dave Wages, my reasoning for 953 was similar to that which people use when talking titanium: corrosion resistance, light-weight (not my concern) and aestetics. For me I wanted a lugged steel bike, the ride characteristics and aesthetics. From what Dave Wages and Bob Brown have told me, there are plenty of tubing choices to fine-tune a ride. The drawbacks are first and foremost price. Sometimes the tubes as receieved are not to the specs ordered and need to be checked. My seat stays were sent back and reordered. Not a problem, just a little more time. The seat stays and chain stays are not as light as you would expect. 953 also is very tough on equipment and is difficult to adjust once set. I think it is a niche tubeset and requires experience to bring out its attributes correctly. In all, it is a shiny, gorgeous bike, and I'm not sure anyone can argue with that fact. Can that be done with regular tubes and chrome? Yes, but it will not last forever. I love this bike. The ride qualities I am only beginning to find out and there are others with more experience. I hope that helps.

[jchasse]

There was an interesting discussion across the hall...

953 Rusting (http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8105)

I have no doubt that this builder will make it right, but it doesn't do much to convince me that 953 is a "better" overall choice for a bike frame than ti.

[dekindy]

I have seen it recommended that titanium be clear coated to protect the finish. Is this good advice?

How about clearcoating 953?

[hainy1]

there are plenty of tubing choices to fine-tune a ride


Thanks mschoeller
This is the answer I was looking for when I sent the original post.

Cheers Stephen

[rwsaunders]

From a few year back...many threads since.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=21872&page=2&pp=15&highlight=953

[tuscanyswe]

I have seen it recommended that titanium be clear coated to protect the finish. Is this good advice?

How about clearcoating 953?

I was told by IF that they dident clearcoat 953 since they could not make it stick.

[dave thompson]

I have seen it recommended that titanium be clear coated to protect the finish. Is this good advice?

How about clearcoating 953?
Ti doesn't need anything to protect its finish. A clean-up with Windex and a wipe-down with Pledge has 'protected' all my Ti bikes.

[hainy1]

It's interesting that BAUM one of the first custom steel builders to build a prototype of 953 hasn't produced any frames since. I must ask them why as I own one of their steel bikes.

[hainy1]

Since Darren built the first 953 we have been asking Reynolds for more suitable tube diameters and wall thickness's that are more conducive to performance frames. To date I believe we have only built a couple of frames exclusively out of 953 and they were for female customers. However we have been building quite a few stainless frames made out of the Columbus XCR tubing. I'm not saying the quality is any better with the Columbus tubing but we have nicer profiled tubes and larger diameters as well

Above is the reply I received from Baum Custom steel and titanium builders. It shows they aren't happy with 953 tubes that reynolds provide.

[EasyTiger]

And yet they're happy to make unridable vapourware 1000g show frames from the stuff.

Yeah, that's how to promote something.

[palincss]

I have seen it recommended that titanium be clear coated to protect the finish. Is this good advice?


My 1991 Ti Spectrum is clear-coated . It looks new. I've seen plenty of uncoated Ti bikes over the years that were only a few months old that looked like crap.