A new option in leather saddles - Gilles Berthoud [Archive]

Louis

06-17-2009, 10:34 PM

Don't know how many folks around here are on Peter White's mailing list, but if you aren't I got this today:

Last summer Gilles announced he was getting into the saddle business. He has created what is essentially a greatly improved Brooks saddle, a cross between the Pro and the B17. See all the details here.

LINK (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bersaddles.asp)

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/saddles/BERMSB1.jpg

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/saddles/BERMSC2.jpg

dave thompson

06-17-2009, 11:14 PM

Nice...but near twice the price of a Books!?!?

Ahneida Ride

06-17-2009, 11:14 PM

Time for a ROAD TRIP to Peter and ride one for myself !

roguedog

06-17-2009, 11:46 PM

Um.. how does he know its better than a Brooks? Someone buy one and ride it for a few hundred miles and report back...

I dunno.. I really love my Brooks

Dekonick

06-17-2009, 11:57 PM

Um.. how does he know its better than a Brooks? Someone buy one and ride it for a few hundred miles and report back...

I dunno.. I really love my Brooks

+1

Couldnt agree more. My only complaint about the B-17 is that the rails don't allow you to shove the saddle back as far as I like and thus you are limited in your seatpost choices... for me I find FSA allows ALMOST enough rear positioning of my B-17. I would be willing to give one of these saddles a try...but not at that price as I really love my Brooks.

:beer:

Missing my bikes horribly. Being stuck in bed would be worse if it werent for the internet, WIFI, and cycling forums.

totally_fixxate

06-18-2009, 01:23 AM

US. Distributor

http://www.gillesberthoud.fr/anglais/gazette/lire.php?identifiant=23&categorie=DISTRIBITOR#ancre23

Gothard

06-18-2009, 04:52 AM

One thing that bugs me is the plastic rear frame. For long term durability I'd want a steel frame.

William

06-18-2009, 05:21 AM

This Brookstone saddle is a lot cheaper and will last one heck of a lot longer than any of those skinz. No more wasting money on proofhide or any of that carp.

http://www.velologue.com/userfiles/image/stone%20saddle.jpg

Solid!!

William ;)

Ray

06-18-2009, 05:33 AM

I don't see a huge upside, but I don't see any downside either. Its the same width as a Pro, has similarly short rails, is priced kind of mid-point in the range of Brooks prices. Its either more or less or similarly attractive, depending on taste, and the color is probably similarly open to change based on years of sweat, chamois cream, rain, etc. If the shape is a bit different and its more comfortable for some people, GREAT. If not, no great loss. No way to tell from looking. I think they're sort of cool looking, but the looks of a saddle mean nothing the second you sit on it. - if they feel good they are good and if they feel like ****e, they are ****e.

I probably won't buy one, but I haven't bought a Brooks in quite some time either. For those who do, I hope you love 'em. Never bad to have another option.

-Ray

39cross

06-18-2009, 06:04 AM

The thickness of the leather looks good. And did you notice the matching handlebar plugs?

Hawker

06-18-2009, 08:29 AM

Yep, too bad it doesn't have longer rails. How about the weight? Assuming the polycarbonate frame works well this should certainly shave a few ounces off of what the Brooks weighs....and that is always a good thing.

nahtnoj

06-18-2009, 08:44 AM

SoCalSteve

06-18-2009, 09:44 AM

Some of the leather finishes are absolutely beautiful!

To me, the appeal of a Brooks is that it contains no 21st, or really even 20th century materials. Metal. Leather. Could have been crafted in a harness shop circa 1780. I'm having trouble figuring out what is gained here by introducing plastic into the mix.

Weight savings, I'm sure.

I love when on Peter White's write up of this saddle he says that you will know in a few seconds (by sitting on it in his shop) if you will like it or not (as he has no return policy).

To me, this is TOTAL BS! You need to spend many miles riding a saddle before you will know if you like it or not. Pretty much, the first 5 miles of riding any saddle is comfortable..Its after that period that you begin to see if a saddle is truly going to work for you...

Let me know after 30 miles, 40 miles, 50 miles...Not a few seconds on a bike at a bike store, geeez!

Just sayin'

Steve

From his article:

It's important to understand, that for women, a full leather saddle is either very comfortable, or a medieval torture device. Most saddles designed by and for women have a cutout in the center for a lady's tender bits. So, depending on exactly how the lady in question is constructed, she may love or hate this saddle. There's only one way to tell, and that's to try it. But there is no return possible on a used saddle, so it could be an expensive trial. You are of course welcome to try one here at the shop. It takes only a few seconds to know if it's suitable for you.

gdw

06-18-2009, 10:02 AM

paczki

06-18-2009, 10:12 AM

Weight savings, I'm sure.

I love when on Peter White's write up of this saddle he says that you will know in a few seconds (by sitting on it in his shop) if you will like it or not (as he has no return policy).

To me, this is TOTAL BS! You need to spend many miles riding a saddle before you will know if you like it or not. Pretty much, the first 5 miles of riding any saddle is comfortable..Its after that period that you begin to see if a saddle is truly going to work for you...

Let me know after 30 miles, 40 miles, 50 miles...Not a few seconds on a bike at a bike store, geeez!

Just sayin'

Steve

From his article:

It's important to understand, that for women, a full leather saddle is either very comfortable, or a medieval torture device. Most saddles designed by and for women have a cutout in the center for a lady's tender bits. So, depending on exactly how the lady in question is constructed, she may love or hate this saddle. There's only one way to tell, and that's to try it. But there is no return possible on a used saddle, so it could be an expensive trial. You are of course welcome to try one here at the shop. It takes only a few seconds to know if it's suitable for you.

+1. What rubbish. It often takes me a half an hour to get perfectly comfortable on my well-worn in Swift -- to relax into proper cycling position.

I refer you all to the footnote on the bottom of this page from someone who rides a lot and knows a lot (and isn't interested in selling stuff to you or me):

http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/page3.htm

SoCalSteve

06-18-2009, 10:35 AM

and backs them with the same six-month unconditional guarantee that they offer on the Brooks saddles that they sell. They also throw in a can of conditioner with the purchase.
http://wallbike.com/blog/category/saddles/berthoud/

Why would anyone buy a saddle from anywhere else? Besides that fact that Bill is truly a nice guy, their customer service is STELLAR!

Just sayin'

Steve

nahtnoj

06-18-2009, 11:16 AM

Weight savings, I'm sure.

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Is weight savings a big deal with the typical Brooks customer? I get the feeling that those who buy the Swift/Swallow do so more because they can.

I too call BS on the "know immediately" thing. Sometimes it only becomes apparent after you get back on for the next ride - where there is either pain or the absence of it - that you know something is going to work.

thugly

06-18-2009, 11:29 AM

"It takes only a few seconds to know if it's suitable for you."

Which is why "comfort bikes" come equipped with ass mattresses. With Koil Komfort Technology .

I like Brooks B17s and Team Pros, so a Berthoud would probably work for me. I just don't see spending $120-140 more for a Berthoud than a Brooks or Velo Orange saddle. Maybe if the back of the saddle looked more like Nikki Gudex than Megablocks...

OT - Berthoud should look into hiring a marketing director that is familiar with using the "Internets"

Ahneida Ride

06-18-2009, 11:35 AM

"It takes only a few seconds to know if it's suitable for you."

It only takes a fes seconds to know that it does not work for you. ;)

Dekonick

06-18-2009, 07:37 PM

The fact that Brooks has been around for a century and has a plethera of happy bums the world over speaks volumes for the design.

Wallbike rules.

spiderman

10-15-2009, 03:40 PM

+1

Couldnt agree more. My only complaint about the B-17 is that the rails don't allow you to shove the saddle back as far as I like and thus you are limited in your seatpost choices... for me I find FSA allows ALMOST enough rear positioning of my B-17. I would be willing to give one of these saddles a try...but not at that price as I really love my Brooks.

:beer:

Missing my bikes horribly. Being stuck in bed would be worse if it werent for the internet, WIFI, and cycling forums.

i was just looking again at the peter white site
considering some stainless steel fenders for my uniscasi...
...and saw these saddles again...
seemed like a ride report is in order from someone...anyone...???

goonster

10-15-2009, 03:50 PM

The fact that Brooks has been around for a century and has a plethera of happy bums the world over speaks volumes for the design.

It does, but Brooks has changed ownership in the last few years, and folks have reported less consistent quality and durability since then.

I'm as big a fan of Brooks as almost anyone, but I plan to buy a Berthoud at some point. After examing them at the Rocky Mountain show, I think the leather looks and feels absolutely fantastic, and the plastic construction looks quite durable too. The steel Brooks frames and rails have been known to not be entirely indestructible, y'know . . .

fiamme red

10-15-2009, 03:52 PM

Jan Heine likes them.

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=internet-bob.10909.0763.eml

I intend to buy one, despite the price. I haven't been really satisfied with any of the Brooks models that I've tried (B17, B17N, Pro, Swallow).

spiderman

10-15-2009, 04:19 PM

and i hope it doesn't get me banned...
...interesting banter on the saddle in question:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15338368

fiamme red

10-15-2009, 04:22 PM

and i hope it doesn't get me banned...Moderators, please stop Spiderman from climbing all over our building. ;)

http://www.francesoir.fr/sport/2009/10/09/spiderman-alain-robert.html#

paczki

10-15-2009, 05:57 PM

mpetry

10-15-2009, 06:12 PM

I have a Berthoud saddle on my Alex Singer "daily driver" and it is very nice !

It is very, VERY thick leather, it has an unusual shape with a big round "cantle" (the back, for you non-horse people) and a long nose. Something of a swallow shape. It is sort of pre-softened, VERY high quality leather, and it was comfortable from the first mile, altho it got better after about a week of riding.

I probably have 1000 miles on it and it looks like new, feels a bit softer, and looks like it will wear forever. A couple scuffs on it for patina.

The frame consists of steel rails and plastic cantle and nose peices. The rear of the saddle has a receiver for a Berthoud saddle bag. Allen bolt tension adjustment. The leather is DETACHABLE and could be replaced, thanks to special allen screws that secure the leather to the frame. Very nice design, TOP quality.

There is a "cork" or mottled color available in addtion to the black and tan. Tres cool.

I really like it. As good as an Ideale 90, and lighter.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

Pic in a minute

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/4015544648_b220c65252.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2734/4014775645_ba7f867e2b.jpg

Charles M

10-15-2009, 07:15 PM

I've never had a saddle I had to ride for more than a few minutes to find it comfortable...

I have had saddles that wound up not being comfortable after starting that way but I've never had one that was horrible or bad that got good. And that would include Brooks.

Personally if I wanted tanned leather I would very simply recover an existing saddle that my ass agreed with. I like the quality (even of the new stuff) but I dont find the swallow (the brooks I can ride) worth the money and or as comfortable as a few others.

WadePatton

10-15-2009, 07:32 PM

coolmo. i missed this first time around and am liking the selle anatomica made-in-wisconsin leather saddle at the present. ho-hum 'bout the plastic on this one, but dearly love the screws. putting this saddle on the "to check out" list.

rcnute

10-15-2009, 08:47 PM

Mark, do you have more photos of your Singer? Neat looking saddle too.

Ryan

I have a Berthoud saddle on my Alex Singer "daily driver" and it is very nice !

It is very, VERY thick leather, it has an unusual shape with a big round "cantle" (the back, for you non-horse people) and a long nose. Something of a swallow shape. It is sort of pre-softened, VERY high quality leather, and it was comfortable from the first mile, altho it got better after about a week of riding.

I probably have 1000 miles on it and it looks like new, feels a bit softer, and looks like it will wear forever. A couple scuffs on it for patina.

The frame consists of steel rails and plastic cantle and nose peices. The rear of the saddle has a receiver for a Berthoud saddle bag. Allen bolt tension adjustment. The leather is DETACHABLE and could be replaced, thanks to special allen screws that secure the leather to the frame. Very nice design, TOP quality.

There is a "cork" or mottled color available in addtion to the black and tan. Tres cool.

I really like it. As good as an Ideale 90, and lighter.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

Pic in a minute

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/4015544648_b220c65252.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2734/4014775645_ba7f867e2b.jpg

fiamme red

10-16-2009, 09:36 AM

Have you tried a Swift?I haven't. Maybe I should -- I have one sitting NOS in a box. ;)

fiamme red

11-05-2009, 03:08 PM

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/gilles-berthoud-gents-leather-saddle-first-ride/4567.html

Joellogicman

11-06-2009, 08:02 AM

Purchased from Peter White via internet - Peter shipped with my wheels.

I did a 4 day 560 mile trip first week in October. I had put maybe 200 miles on the saddle before the trip. I found the saddle more comfortable than a new Brooks I tried and failed to break in on a trip a few years back. It was not as comfortable as the 17 year old Brooks on my former tourer - a Trek 728. But it was plenty comfortable. No chafing. I only had a few time to stop the bike and walk around moments.

Unless there is some quality problem with the leather tanning, I expect long term it will be superior to the Brooks as the leather is thicker. I will check back in another 17 years.

Oh yeah - I got the cork color. Really good looking.

mpetry

11-06-2009, 09:28 AM

I have 2 Singers (and 2 serottas!) here are a couple pics. The blue one is s/n 3002 built for me in 2003. The silver one is s/n 1478 built in 1971. Really great bikes, simple and beautifully detailed.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1160/1459326078_86e0e26d02_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2337/3544506074_7bd5980765_b.jpg

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA