Thought of the Day

[Sandy]

I have read so many threads and posts about frame materials and stay materials and which bikes are "better", and old technology bikes versus new technology bikes, that I started to wonder.

Suppose that steel bikes were not the "old technology" bikes. Suppose that aluminum, titanium, carbon, and hybrid bikes came first. Then suppose that Serotta made the first steel bike, tig welded, at that. Let's suppose that it was made with the older heavier tubing. The tubing was all of the same diameter, no butting,tapering, etc.

Serotta could have advertised the bike as the bike with the new "wonder" material, with an "astonishing" ride, with "remarkable" road feel. Then Serotta could start to butt and taper the tubes and use different diameter tubing. The Utah Concept Tubing would be introduced. Then would come the secret KFC lightweight "super marvelous" tubing. Tig welding would be replaced by filet brazed tubes. Then an amazing Serotta would be introduced- A FULLY LUGGED UTAH CONCEPT TUBING SEROTTA WONDER BIKE, making obselete the older and outdated Colorado concept Ottrott and Ottrott ST bikes.

At that time the older technology carbon, ti, aluminum, and hybrid bikes would be a dime a dozen and the new wonder Serottas would be selling for $11,255 for frame and fork (the new wonder fork material-steel).

Dave Kirk and Richard Sachs would finally be employed, learning how to join the new wonder tubes....


Sandy

[eddief]

don't start drinking before noon.

[Sandy]

Most of us on the East Coast don't stop until midnight.

Sandy

[Climb01742]

sandy, is there an english translation of your post? ;)

[Bill Bove]

...if I sealed of the tubes and filled them with helium :confused:

This close to Jamaica, we only have to take a deep breath :D

[Kevan]

he's not the one holding his thumb over the button. :D


Not that the current thumb is much better mind you...

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is the role marketing plays in selling these things.

Considering how many people on this forum rave about steel bikes and how nice they are and how nice they ride, he may have point. What defines a "great" ride anyway? To some degree, it's based on what we have been told in technical and marketinig literature and consists of what the people we feel are "experts" are telling us we should believe. For instance, I was impressed by the ride of the Ottrott when I test rode one because it was stiffer laterally, but still compliant vertically. But that's because I've been indoctrinated to think that what a "better" ride should feel like . . . and THAT school of thought itself uses bike speed as the ruling factor.

But what if final speed was not THE ruling factor? What if the definition of "superior" ride and handling was based on comfort and touring rather than speed and racing? Then his scenario would be correct and steel bikes might be the paradigm.

Is that what you were trying to say, Sandy?

BBDave

[flydhest]

BBDave,
You may be headed in the same direction as Sandy, I don't know, however, I think the premise of an historical reversal of the use of materials transcends marketing, important as it is. Were the ordering reversed, it would seem that touring and such--which had been popular along with steel--would have simply dictated different design for other material. Indeed, I would be shocked if carbon were not among the best rides for light touring, given its insulating ability.

However, holding somethings constant in this anachronistic thought experiment, the marketing and touting of aluminum and Ti and carbon over steel has always at least included weight. Reversing the historical ordering of things, one would have to make the argument that steel is better _in spite of_ the weight difference.

Moreover, one of the reasons to go to aluminum at least was cost reduction. Each of the other materials has an obvious, quantifiable benefit over steel. It's easy to find cases where steel does as well, but, as a result, though other materials are marketed well, steel hasn't died.

[keno]

is there truth to the rumor that you have been diligently working on inventing carbon paper?

Looking forward, how about a plexiglass frame with goldfish swimming in it? That way, if you get dropped you have someone to mutter to.

keno

[csb]

sandy skoglund

[flydhest]

surstromming also begins with an "S"

other Skandies in the house?