View Full Version : OT: gas vs TDI towing power
I have a Passat wagon (1.8 L engine), and will need to tow a trailer across the country in a few months. The trailer will weigh about 1200 pounds. I assume the Passat can handle this, but I wonder if the new Jetta TDI wagon would be a better vehicle for this job, since it has more torque. Any advice or thoughts?
dekindy
06-01-2009, 02:30 PM
I would not assume anything when it comes to towing capacity. Find the exact tongue and total weight that the engine and braking capacity can handle. I seriously doubt that a vehicle with a 1.8L engine is rated to tow 1,200 pounds. The Jetta may not have enough braking capacity. Get the exact specs before tackling mountains and deserts.
goonster
06-01-2009, 02:50 PM
What kind of hitch do you have?
Check the vwvortex.com and tdiclub.com forums for threads on this subject.
Germans love trailers, so I'm sure there is a solution. Engine will not be the limiting factor.
http://members.shaw.ca/nemod/passat_trailer_01.jpg
http://image.trucktrend.com/f/towing-and-hauling/volkswagen-passat-estate-wins-2007-towcar-awards/6487929+w700+cr1+re0+ar1/volkswagen-golf-match-19-litre-tdi.jpg
jhcakilmer
06-01-2009, 02:54 PM
I would not assume anything when it comes to towing capacity. Find the exact tongue and total weight that the engine and braking capacity can handle. I seriously doubt that a vehicle with a 1.8L engine is rated to tow 1,200 pounds. The Jetta may not have enough braking capacity. Get the exact specs before tackling mountains and deserts.
+1....I would check with VW, but I wouldn't do it. I would also check on the TDI, but I would think that would handle the load much better. That's what the diesels are made for, but those VW TDIs are small, so I'd double check.
Just to be safe, you should get the VW Toureg with the V-10 twin turbo diesel....I think the 553 lb-ft of torque will be enough..... :p
goonster
06-01-2009, 03:04 PM
According to uktow.com, a '99 Passat 1.8T automatic is rated to tow around 3300 lbs. Mind you, that's for the UK spec car, which would have slightly different suspension and gear ratios, but it should give you a ballpark figure.
Americans are loathe to tow with anything less than a V8 truck, but Germans demand towing capabilities (for small cargo trailers, at least) from all but the smallest cars.
jhcakilmer
06-01-2009, 03:32 PM
According to uktow.com, a '99 Passat 1.8T automatic is rated to tow around 3300 lbs. Mind you, that's for the UK spec car, which would have slightly different suspension and gear ratios, but it should give you a ballpark figure.
Americans are loathe to tow with anything less than a V8 truck, but Germans demand towing capabilities (for small cargo trailers, at least) from all but the smallest cars.
Yes, but most of the cars they use to tow with have a deisel engine, not gas. I wouldn't tow with a 1.8L gas engine. Also, considering the european specs, and the "jungle juice" they call fuel, there is a difference.
Our 3.5L Honda Pilot is rated to tow 3500lbs...plus it's larger disc help.....it's not just about power.
Plus where is "across the country"...are you planning on crossing the Rockies?
For encouragement before your journey...
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/221106-a-vw.jpg :)
Climb01742
06-02-2009, 04:08 AM
as an aside, have you checked on availability on the new jetta TDI wagon? we are looking to get one, finally found one that's incoming but it won't be here for a number of weeks. apparently there's a fair amount of demand, not huge supply. we're psyched we found one. good luck on your trip!
William
06-02-2009, 04:23 AM
I don't think you'll have any trouble at all....
http://www.healthchecksystems.com/images/instep_quick_n_ez_bike_trailer.jpg
;) :)
William
Ken Robb
06-02-2009, 08:22 AM
Is it easy to get a hitch installed on your VW?
Any advice or thoughts?I don’t have experience towing with a VW but have towed many times with what many Americans would consider an underpowered vehicle. I’ve also towed with large powerful vehicles and although it’s easier, it is not always necessary.
When towing with small and/or underpowered vehicles, other trailer factors beyond weight make a big difference – the first two that come to mind are whether the trailer has brakes and how “big” it is (not just how heavy).
Regarding brakes -- does the trailer have them? Most trailers that size don’t, but some newer trailers even that light are being equipped with surge brakes. If you are renting and have that option I’d go with a braked trailer. Also, different states have different requirements for brakes based on trailer size. Some limit strictly by trailer weight and others as a percent of the towing vehicle’s weight (which makes more sense to me) or a combination of the two. If you do a google search you can find trailer brake requirements by state.
Wind drag is a major factor when driving at highway speeds. Most people towing with large trucks get hung up with mountains because it can affect them more due to their heavy trailers, but when towing with smaller and less powerful vehicles (like one of mine which only has 100 HP), wind drag can limit speed too much if the trailer is a big box on wheels. As an example, I’ve towed a 5X8 U-Haul which is relatively narrow and can hold 70 MPH with ease. On the other hand when I tried pulling a lighter camper that was much wider and taller it didn’t work out. I quickly realized that frontal area was more limiting than weight and that I needed a larger tow vehicle with a lot more horsepower. Basically I’m saying that when driving along the Interstates it’s easier for me to tow a small trailer loaded with heavy books than a large lightweight camper full of air.
Wind drag also takes a lot of HP on a continuous basis and some cars (unlike trucks which are set up for it) can overheat because the cooling system can’t handle it. If you are towing a big box up a mountain you’ll end up going fairly slow which may precipitate overheating (summer doesn't help).
Regardless of which vehicle you use, make sure the trailer hitch is adequate for the loaded trailer weight. If you are not certain of how much it will weigh, estimate conservatively (it’s easy to add more than expected). And if in doubt, before setting out on your cross country trip it may be worth stopping by a scale. Cost in my area is less than $10 and well worth the information.
Thanks for the help. Yes, this would involve crossing the Rockies--we are headed to Victoria, BC. I don't have a hitch mounted yet, but can't imagine this will be complicated. I'm going to ask my local independent VW mechanic what the options are.
I love the European pictures. It's true that Europeans have a very different attitude to towing. I have dim memories of my early childhood in the Netherlands, of my father towing a tent-camper (for a family of 5) with his VW Beetle. Of course, distances are short, and in the Netherlands, very flat. Going across North America, towing a trailer, will slow me down and add significant gasoline costs. I just don't want to wreck the car doing it, or seriously endanger us.
The other option I'm considering is to trade in the Passat for a mini-van. I need to get 3 dogs, 2 humans, luggage and a couple of bikes out west for our sabbatical. I have a rocket box for the skis and a rack for bikes. I think something like a Honda Odyssey would do the trick. That's probably the safest bet....
dekindy
06-02-2009, 09:31 AM
Why don't you just kennel the dogs and and any decent sized sedan will handle the trip? How will you care for the dogs on a trip like this?
Can't imagine kenneling our dogs for a week, let alone the 9 months or so we'll be away. Either we bring our dogs, or we don't go.
gearguywb
06-02-2009, 09:47 AM
I have one of the new Jetta Wagon TDI's. As others have said, power is not an issue. I am not sure what the towing capacity listed form VW is (driving the other car today), but the new diesel is WAY stonger than my old Jetta.
nahtnoj
06-02-2009, 09:48 AM
Your turbo is going to be working really hard to pull this off, if you do it make sure the cooling system is in tip-top shape.
Is a transmission cooler an option (I'm assuming auto trans) - engine bay in a 1.8T Passat is pretty tight.
Climb01742
06-02-2009, 10:13 AM
I have one of the new Jetta Wagon TDI's. As others have said, power is not an issue. I am not sure what the towing capacity listed form VW is (driving the other car today), but the new diesel is WAY stonger than my old Jetta.
how do you like it? we're getting one soon. thanks. :D
goonster
06-02-2009, 10:23 AM
engine bay in a 1.8T Passat is pretty tight.
Not really. The B5 chassis can swallow the W8!
nahtnoj
06-02-2009, 10:48 AM
Not really. The B5 chassis can swallow the W8!
OK, true. I drive a Volvo 940. When I'm under the hood of my sister's Passat, everything seems difficult and cramped by comparison. Cooling capacity/general airflow is definitely reduced.
Tobias
06-02-2009, 01:38 PM
http://members.shaw.ca/nemod/passat_trailer_01.jpgFirst time I've seen a trailer with rear view mirrors. Very Euro. :cool:
I’ve seen similar homemade trailers built from a pickup truck bed, or from the back end of a van, but never from a wagon. A nice way to carry expensive bikes safely.
Can't make it out, but that may be a TV on the dash.
Tobias
06-02-2009, 01:58 PM
A nice way to carry expensive bikes safely.Seems like an expensive trailer for its size. Probably heavy too.
staggerwing
06-02-2009, 03:36 PM
What about packing in one of those "load it yourself cargo containers" and having it shipped forward?
Then you can enjoy the cross country drive, sans trailer and worry.
issixtoomany
06-02-2009, 03:58 PM
I've pulled a 1200 lb trailer with my Passat 2.0 TDI wagon, around a 1000 mile round trip from NJ to SW Virginia. I've pulled a similar trailer with an older Audi A4 with the 1.8T, an earlier version that made about 185hp vs around 200hp for the B5 Passat?
The chassis, transmission (tiptronic auto) and brakes are probably the same on my TDI wagon and the OP's 1.8T wagon. My TDI is tuned a bit, so 300lb-ft, around 170hp. It pulls like a small V8. The 1.8T in the Passat is a pretty gutsy engine though. Stronger than the older Audi version. The Passat transmission and brakes were fine, no problem at all.
Both cars handled the trailer no problem at all. (Boy Scout troop trailer, no brakes) The Audi had to rev much higher to make power on hills, but it was certainly not overly strained.
I think you'll be fine with the 1.8T.
Make sure you get the hitch installed properly, different issues with the American and Euro styles need attention.
I'll take any diesel these days. As long as it can carry my bike without removing the wheels, (and is a diesel), I'm all over it.
Otherwise, it's Mustang GT time. :cool:
Mike748
06-03-2009, 10:00 AM
The transmission is usually the weak link in a towing scenario. Manual would be better than auto. Auto should have an aux cooler. Consider whether the Passat has a heavier duty trans than the Jetta? Also, the added weight of the Passat will make it a better tow vehicle.
I know more about BMW's than VW's these days... the Bavarians won't let you tow with their cars in the US, only their SUV's (SAV's), at least if you care about no voiding your warranty. As soon as I'm out of warranty my 325 wagon is getting a hitch.
The transmission is usually the weak link in a towing scenario. Manual would be better than auto. Auto should have an aux cooler.An automatic transmission cooler is a great idea. It’s interesting that in the US manufacturers normally rate their light-duty automatic vehicles with higher tow ratings than their manual counterparts.
On smaller vehicles like my Ranger pickup there is a noticeable difference in the two ratings which favor the automatics. I personally prefer the manual but only because I think I know when to shift down to keep from burning up the engine or clutch. Taller gearing due to fuel economy standards on light-duty vehicles also makes launching a trailer with a stick more difficult. Starting a trailer up an incline could easily burn out a clutch on many cars and small trucks. And that’s a warranty problem manufacturers don’t need.
Lincoln
06-03-2009, 11:53 AM
Take I80 across Wyoming. You will likely hit headwinds but the hills are much more manageable than going across either I70 or I90. Once you get to Utah take I84 all the way to Portland then go up I5. If you peel off in the middle of Oregon and take I82->I90->Seattle you save some miles but have to go over the Cascades.
None of this is the route I would take if I was looking for scenic but if you are concerned about hills it is the way to go.
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