Seat Setback question

[gt6267a]

So, I have been off the bike for 2 months and a few days ago realized that this laziness this is not a good thing. Last night I rode the training and noticed extra pressure on the inside of each knee. It is the muscle, don’t know the name, that goes over the knee on the inside.

I am looking for some insight here. I am guess this indicates that my seat setback is incorrect? Is there not a “normal” issue(s) when the seat is to far forward and another set of issues when a seat is to far back?

What are these issues, respectively?

Thanks and Regards,
K

[JohnS]

I've only heard of problems when the seat was too low or high. If it's too high, there is pain at the back of the knee (from overextention) and at the front if too low.

[Smiley II]

check as if its not and its tipping forward you could have the problem right there .

[gt6267a]

Smiley. I like the thought, but I have that covered. I use greg gorman's book of potraits "inside life" it is almost exactly the right height.

-k

[Smiley II]

then you should be re-checked for a fit , a quickie is all you need like a fast food meal, not really a meal but a fast meal . :banana:

[Richard]

Two things First, is this the same position that was OK before?? If so, then I would attribute the muscle pain to fatigue, lack of tone or sudden reintroduction of repetitive motion. My other thought is that the cleats are set wrong. Be sure to check.

[Kevin]

K,

Having suffered through too many knee injuries to count, I have become a quack on the subject. In other words, I am not a doctor but I play one on this forum.

Before I do my forum interview of your medical problem, as a general rule when you have a pain on the outside of the knee you want to widen your stance on the pedals. If the pain is on the inside you want to narrow your stance. This rule is similiar to the one where if the pain is in the front of the knee you want to raise the saddle and if it is in the back you want to lower the saddle.

Is the pain a sharp pain on the inside of the knee? Is it at or just below the center of the knee? If so, it may be Pes Anserine Bursitis/Tendinitis. It is sometimes caused by a saddle that is too high or a stance on the pedals that is too wide. I wonder have you switched shoes or cleats since you last rode? If so, the Q factor may be somewhat different than where it was set last year.

Is the pain a sharp pain on the inner edge of the kneecap? If so you are probably suffering from inflamation of the Medial Patellar Femoral Ligament. This is usually caused by a saddle that is too low or a pedal stance that is too wide.

If the pain is not a sharp pain, but is instead a dull ache. Try and describe its location and how it starts.

There are a couple of good books on the subject if you want advice from a real doctor. "The Knee Crisis Handbook" is published by Rodale (rodalestore.com). "Andy Pruitt's Medical Guide for Cyclists" is published by RBR Publishing (roadbikerider.com)

Good luck.

Kevin

[gt6267a]

Kevin,

I like your resonse and I need to do a little more research. I'll get on the trainer tomorrow and make sure to think of the pain in the ways you describe.

Richard,

The seat is in a slightly different position than what I rode this summer. My Serotta fitting had the seat at 88CM from the pedal spindle to seat top. Over the summer, I had a rather pathetic dismounting moment and my seat twisted. In the process of righting it, I raised the seat a few mm. annoyed, i rode like that for a while and liked it, so i kept it that way. somehow, the rest of the summer went by without re-setting my post. now that i am getting back on the bike, i decided to put the seat at the correct height again.

Now that I have told on myself, I do want to say in my own defense that it was pretty comfy on the legs and knees being higher up. my main incentive for dropping the seat down* is that i was putting more pressure on the under-carriage and i'd like to remain capable if you what i'm talking about.

* down to my serotta fit level

i will pay closer attention to the problem so as to report back with more detailed info to help you guys help me.

thanks,
k

[93legendti]

Sounds like an IT band /peraformis (spell?) issue. My phys therapist taught me some stretches to do before riding and the pain went away.

[Kevin]

I have some experience with IT band problems and it does not sound like the IT band. As a point of reference, I once screwed up my IT band so badly that it took three months of PT and medication to get it to relax and allow me to pedal a bike again. The reason why it got so bad is that I thought I could ride through the pain. I tried to ride through the pain for about 3 months or 1500 miles. (my wife will tell you that I am an idiot). When the IT band finally locked up my knee, I was riding on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. I was on vacation, 20 miles from the rental, forgot my cell phone, and I had to ride the last 20 miles into a headwind using only one leg. (people in passing cars must have been laughing their as*es off at me). The pain was so excruciating that I could not bend my knee to go up and down stairs, get in a car or even walk without a limp. As a result of my experience, I have done a lot of research on the IT band. I met with "the so-called knee man" in NYC. He is the knee doctor for the US Ski team, the New York Jets, and many top athletes. I have read every knee book I could find on the IT Band. I have read every cycling book that I could find that discusses knee injuries.

As a result of my experience, I have a 25 minute stretching regimen that I do every day and I also do knee exercises every day. I also pay attention to every little ache and pain in my knee. Based on what I have read, experienced and been told, pain with an IT Band is usually on the outside of the knee. gt6267a is complaining that the pain is on the inside of the knee. So it does not sound like the right location for an IT band problem. In addition, pain with an IT band is typically described as a sharp stabbing pain. gt6267a describes his pain as "added pressure". He is supposed to get back to us with a better description, but the type of pain he describes does not sound like the pain typically associated wth IT Band issues.

If it turns out to be an IT Band problem, then widening your pedal stance and getting a more relaxed saddle position should help. It worked wonders for me. It aslo gave me an explanation to give my wife as why I needed a custom frame (STA of 71.5) When she wasn't looking I snuck in an Ottrott ST. So sometimes knee injuries can be a blessing in disguise.

Kevin

[93legendti]

My bad, my pain was on the OUTside of the knee...too early/not enough coffee!! Sorry!

[gt6267a]

so, i was on the trainer last night. i got going and noticed the knee issue again. it was more of a pain of stress. not sharp.

then, my butt was hurting so i got off and changed the angle of my seat. it was angled down a bit. i made it more level.

this did two things 1) there was less push forward. i was able to sit on the seat easier. 2) i was slightly lower.

more importantly, i did not have a pain in my knee. this is pretty wild as i was trying to make my butt more comfortable and then it worked out for my knee.

hopefully this resolves my knee issues. thanks for all your responses.

-k

[Kevin]

Just goes to show that the ankle bone is connected to the knee bone, which is connected to the a** bone, or something like that. I hope it works.

Kevin

[Johnnyg]

gt6267a
Have you tried useing a plumb bob method to get your cleats orientated properly? Good luck and get better.
Johnny G

[Sandy]

I first started to post a response at an earlier stage in this thread, but did not since I got interrupted. What struck me immediately was that gt627a mentioned that he or she had been off the bike for 2 months. Assuming that meant no form of cycling and almost no other exercise similar to cycling, then perhaps the problem is much more related to time away from cycling than to anything else. If gt627a simply got on the bike and started pushing bigger gears than he or she was prepared for, there would undoubtedly be a great deal of overstressing ligaments, muscles, and tendons. During the cycling season, even when I am in excellent condition (for someone my age), I will feel the insides of my knees if I push too big of a gear in sprinting or in climbing a lot of hills that are steep enough to slow my cranks down to a low cadence. My bet is that the problem is much more a body not ready to push bigger gears. I would also guess that if gt627a started spinning on the trainer smaller gears and waited for a while to push bigger gears the problem would get better, and if gt627a made an effort to push big gears the problem would stay the same or get even worse.