First-time Serotta owner... a Concours Ti frame

[thehighend]

I'm excited because I just pulled the trigger on a new-to-me Serotta Concours. Matte finish, 59cm, looks great and I can't wait to build her up with Dura Ace and some new Easton kit (SLX fork, bars).

I recently started riding a titanium frame (a polished Sampson Silverton) and I'm now a titanium "convert." Since I grew up in Saratoga I have had a special interest in Serotta frames, so I decided today to buy a Serotta and see if I can finally experience for myself the fabled Serotta ride quality coupled with the characteristics of titanium. I'll soon see how that goes!

Anyway, I'm happy to be joining the club, so to speak, and to be supporting (albeit indirectly) the local bike company I grew up next to. Cheers!

[konstantkarma]

Congrats. You're gonna love that bike. The Concours may not be the top of the line Serotta Ti, but it has earned a place in the hearts of many riders.

Just took mine out for a 40 mile ride today. Puts a smile on my face every time :) .

[rwsaunders]

Welcome to the NFL. You will like the bike and the brand.

[roydyates]

Congratulations! I'm guessing you bought this frame on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160334878363)

I pondered that auction for awhile since I think you got a nice deal. In fact, I'm kinda curious to understand why your frame was only $466 when a another 61cm Ti Concours (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=150343299705) sold for over $900? Is the painted frame or Ouzo Pro fork more desirable or is this just ebay pricing randomness?

One more thing, the two Concours bikes have quite different sizing info:

Your 59cm Concours: The Seat Tube measures 59cm, center-to-center. The Top Tube is 57.5cm. The Head Tube is 18cm.

The other 61cm Concours: Sloping top tube--56cm c-c seat tube (equivalent of a 61 c-c seat tube); 59cm (equivalent) top tube.

Which bike is actually taller?

Any insight here would be welcomed. Thanks!

[John M]

I'm kinda curious to understand why your frame was only $466 when a sold for over $900?

That is the nature of auctions. It takes at least two players to bid the price up. The final price depends on how badly those bidding want it. I'd say the $466 was a lucky deal, quite a bit less than typical market value.

[konstantkarma]

BTW, here is a link showing my built up concours (polished Ti). Post pics of yours when you finish your build.

concours (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=45587)

[Pete Serotta]

THe ti is a wonderful ride. Smiley busts me for everytime I see him I have my legend ti,,,,it is old just like me,,,,

[Bruce K]

I will be rolling out my 1999/2000 Concours tomorrow night for our club's sprint and climbing ride.

I still love that bike despite owning a Meivici. It's just too much fun.

Enjoy yours,

BK

[Elefantino]

You will love the Concours.

It's been said by many times by many people, but a Concours with an F1 fork is just about perfect, with Easton bits right behind.

Ride it like you stole it.

[thehighend]

So nice to hear from other Serotta ti-frame owners, especially all the positive remarks. Thanks!

The frame will be delivered on Thursday, and it is the above mentioned Concours that sold on eBay. eBay auction prices do vary quite a bit (on everything), and this particular auction was a "lucky one" for me. Usually, I seem to win auctions for about $0.01 less than my bid amount, but this time I actually bid quite a bit higher than the final auction price--yeah!

Yes, the Profile Design BRC fork probably hurt the auction price somewhat, but that was fine by me especially since I had already purchased a new Easton EC90-SLX fork.

If possible I would like to have the frame "spiffed up" with new Serotta stickers. Is that a service that is available from Serotta?

"Ride it like you stole it"... very appropriate. :beer:

[konstantkarma]

Yep. Serotta can set you up with new decals. Give them a call.

[thehighend]

Doh! It just arrived and it has a 1" headtube, not the 1-1/8" advertised. No big deal for some, perhaps, but since I just paid $400 for a new Easton 1-1/8" fork and another c-note for a 1-1/8" stem, it's a deal breaker for me. Sad... just when I got really lucky on eBay too.

I can return the frame to the seller, but if anyone wants to make a quick offer....

[konstantkarma]

you can use the stem with a shim on a 1" steerer. As for the fork, can't you exchange it for a 1"?

[Peter B]

Did you buy the fork & stem to fit the frame or vice-versa? The stem can be shimmed (I'll give you one). Can you return the fork or trade it for a 1"? The Concours is a nce frame regardless of steerer diameter.

[roydyates]

I'll try sending you a PM (if I can figure that out.)

[Ahneida Ride]

Just exchange the fork

The Concours is the Jewel in the Serotta lineup.

[Elefantino]

Just exchange the fork

The Concours is the Jewel in the Serotta lineup.
Words.

And get the seller who told you it was 1 1/8 to pay the fork shipping.

[thehighend]

Now I'm confused guys! I was set on returning the frame but with all these comments to the contrary I don't know what to do. :confused:
After spending big bucks on the new Easton SLX fork (purchased online a few months ago... probably stuck with it) and svelte/light stem, it's disappointing to think about going "back to the drawing board" about forks and using a kludgy shim with the stem. But, reading your comments... perhaps it will be worth it.

I'm intrigued by "The Concours is the Jewel in the Serotta lineup" statement. Maybe I didn't do enough research prior to purchase and got luckier than I thought (rarely happens, as the 1" issue now shows), but I am under the impression that these older Concours frames are not as light & stiff as the newer frames. And, with the current lineup frames selling (new and used) for $$$, doesn't that imply that for Serotta ti-frames the Concours is more the standard-bearer than the jewel??

Also, isn't it true that uber-lightweight forks like the SLX should be even more fragile with a 1" tube than a 1-1/8"? Safety is obviously a big concern.

[konstantkarma]

The shims are not "kludgy". Lots of manufacturers supply them new with a new 1-1/8 stem (Ritchey for example). It is done because pretty much no one makes 1" non-quill stems.

The Concours is not a compromise for any other Ti frame with regard to stiffness, or ride quality. It uses shaped tubing (wider at the BB), and incorporates many innovations to its design that have been copied and envied by other builders. The 3D drop outs, for example, are sublime. The only bikes that in my opinion "compete" with concours are the Legend, and perhaps Moots, Seven, or Indy Fab......especially at the ridiculously low price at which you purchased it. Just my opinion, but I think you'll find, like many of us, that the bike is a keeper. Return or sell the fork.

[avalonracing]

If you can work out the water bottle screws that bike was very well bought. The 1" HT isn't an issue. It worked for decades and will continue to do so. Likewise components like headsets and forks are still available and will be for a long time.

See if the seller will credit you $25 and move forward with your great new bike.

[Elefantino]

More fwiw E advice:

If you can't return the Easton fork, I agree with KK: sell it. So you lose a few bucks.

Then, see if anyone has an F1 fork to sell you. Probably a few of them lying around garages from forum denizens.

Concours + F1 = perfection.

Really.

[konstantkarma]

More fwiw E advice:

If you can't return the Easton fork, I agree with KK: sell it. So you lose a few bucks.

Then, see if anyone has an F1 fork to sell you. Probably a few of them lying around garages from forum denizens.

Concours + F1 = perfection.

Really.

I have a threadless F1 from my Concours that I could let go (I replaced mine with a full carbon Reynolds OP). PM me if interested.

[roydyates]

I was really getting my hopes up that thehighend would sell me his Concours frame. I've been riding around on a very nice Colorado Legend CRL that has given me a bad itch for a Ti Serotta. Nevertheless, I think everyone is giving thehighend good advice to keep the Concours.

[avalonracing]

I was really getting my hopes up that thehighend would sell me his Concours frame. I've been riding around on a very nice Colorado Legend CRL that has given me a bad itch for a Ti Serotta. Nevertheless, I think everyone is giving thehighend good advice to keep the Concours.

There are lots of great deals on Ti Serottas. I sold mine a few years back to a friend who then sold it to another friend for $850. No crashes, no scratches, 8 Speed Record group with SRP Ti bolt kit, Ti post, hand build Mavics... You get the idea.

[Peter B]

I have a threadless F1 from my Concours that I could let go (I replaced mine with a full carbon Reynolds OP). PM me if interested.

If the rake is appropriate for your head tube angle and the steerer length is adequate, consider buying this fork. Or find a 1" Ouzo Pro or Wound Up. The Wound Up can be had with steel or carbon in 1". Post the Easton here in the classifieds.

Unless you are VERY heavy there isn't an issue with 1" carbon steerers from the top fork manufacturers. The one thing to watch is not exceeding the listed spacer stack height, but this holds for carbon steerers regardless of diameter. As said before, there is absulotely nothing kludgy about using a shim wiith the stem. That's a non-issue.

The Concours uses double butted vs. triple butted tubing. IIRC it has all the tube swaging and manipulation of the Legend. I doubt you'll be disappointed by (or notice) the difference except in your wallet.

[roydyates]

There are lots of great deals on Ti Serottas. I sold mine a few years back to a friend who then sold it to another friend for $850. No crashes, no scratches, 8 Speed Record group with SRP Ti bolt kit, Ti post, hand build Mavics... You get the idea.

I do indeed get the idea and I appreciate your effort to cheer me up. :) Still, my impression based on a few months of lurking around Serottas for sale is that there are a lot of frames 56cm or smaller and occasional big (62-64cm) Colorados, but relatively few around 59cm. Maybe I'm just see it that way because I'm looking for a frame around 59cm.

[Bart001]

The Concours is not a compromise for any other Ti frame with regard to stiffness, or ride quality. It uses shaped tubing (wider at the BB), and incorporates many innovations to its design that have been copied and envied by other builders.

How does the 'wider at the BB' downtube affect the types of front der's that can be used? Campy makes clamp-ons for 32 and 35mm tubes, so no problem, right????

[Bruce K]

It doesn't.

The diameter at that point is still a standard clamp-on size, just the next one up.

BK

[thehighend]

Update (overdue). I kept the frame and researched 1" forks... finally bought a new Alpha-Q CS-20, full carbon and very light. I started building the bike today. She is looking good, but not quite finished. One snag I hit: the downtube brazed-on shifter bosses are unlike any I have seen. Normally, there is some finger-adjustable part to adjust cable tension. Or, at least some internal threads to permit some threaded adjustable insert. These Serotta shifter bosses don't adjust... is there a small Serotta part that slides into the Serotta bosses? They seem kind of lame as is....

[rwsaunders]

Contact Dave Kirk if these devices are what you are looking for. Pretty much a standard on Serotta frames of this design.

[Dekonick]

You can also get them from Serotta - I had the same issue with my old steel frame. If DK has them in stock, I would get them from him.

Wise of you to keep the frame - in the world of Ti, it doesn't often get better than a Serotta... ESPECIALLY for under 5 bills.

This frame will outlast you.

[rugbysecondrow]

You can also get them from Serotta - I had the same issue with my old steel frame. If DK has them in stock, I would get them from him.

Wise of you to keep the frame - in the world of Ti, it doesn't often get better than a Serotta... ESPECIALLY for under 5 bills.

This frame will outlast you.


Agreed. The more I ride my Concours TI, the more I enjoy it.

[thehighend]

Dave Kirk's sites lists brass adjusters for downtube bosses, but I can't tell from the photo here...
http://www.kirkframeworks.com/accessories.htm
...whether they need to thread into the frame. The Concours' bosses are not threaded.

BTW, a second question I have is if the Concours' seatpost diameter is 27.0 or 27.2?

[Elefantino]

Dave Kirk's sites lists brass adjusters for downtube bosses, but I can't tell from the photo here...
http://www.kirkframeworks.com/accessories.htm
...whether they need to thread into the frame. The Concours' bosses are not threaded.

BTW, a second question I have is if the Concours' seatpost diameter is 27.0 or 27.2?
The latter.

[thehighend]

I figured 27.2 but it was a bit snug.
Regarding, the downtube bosses, here is a close-up pic of what's on my Concours.

[rwsaunders]

I figured 27.2 but it was a bit snug.
Regarding, the downtube bosses, here is a close-up pic of what's on my Concours.

Some of the older CSI's had the same detail if i recall. Wasn't there a small custom washer inserted in the guide?

[Pete Serotta]

Some of the older CSI's had the same detail if i recall. Wasn't there a small custom washer inserted in the guide?

yes, mine has one on each adjuster....

[thehighend]

Hmmm... the frame was delivered to me sans "custom washers." What do those washers look like?

[tmessenger]

Serotta makes an adjuster for that bike, it is a threaded adjuster and the ears you see sticking up on the boss hold the adjuster nut in place and from turning.

[rwsaunders]

Dejavu all over again....

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=57862&highlight=serotta+barrel+adjusters

[thehighend]

I revisited this old thread, even though I recently parted with the frame, to let others who might be interested know that I was able to source the missing small parts for the unique cable stops directly from Serotta. So, if you are missing those tiny bits from an older Serotta frame, give 'em a call!