Small SUVs or Wagons that accomodate upright Bikes [Archive]

khjr

05-01-2009, 09:10 PM

I'm in the market for a new vehicle, having discovered last weekend that the frame on my 99 Tacoma is rotted through. I've done some searches with inconclusive results - there are lots of postings regarding liftbacks and wagons into which bikes will fit (one post about getting a bike into the Porsche 911), and various postings regarding non 4WD vehicles that'll accomodate upright bikes.

My question is a little more specific - I'm looking for an 4WD (or AWD) vehicle with an interior that'll accomodate a 57 cm road bike in the UPRIGHT position with the front wheel removed. Intent would be able to put at least 2 bikes side by side. The ideal car for me would be 4WD (or AWD), good on gas, and as small as possible while accomodating the bikes. Current contenders are the Acura MDX, Toyota V6 RAV4, Subaru Forester, and Ford Escape, but I haven't test drove or tried bikes in them.

If you've got such a vehicle, or have seen one with upright bikes inside, could you do me the favor of advising regarding model and, if known, year?

Thanks!

johnny1221

05-01-2009, 09:23 PM

Check out a Honda Fit

Ray

05-01-2009, 09:27 PM

Check out a Honda Fit
The Fit's not four or all wheel drive. The Element is, though - that should be on the list.

-Ray

john903

05-01-2009, 09:43 PM

dogdriver

05-01-2009, 09:50 PM

4 Door 2005 and later Toyota Tacoma. Its a really nice 5 pax car with a pickup bed in back. Bolt two fork mounts onto a 2x6 and wahlah!!!-- instant bed bike rack. You probably want a bed topper to complete it...

I owned a 4Runner for 16 years and spent a lot more time wishing I had a pickup than being happy I had an SUV. The only other potential option for upright bikes would be a minivan, buit they're not 4wd...

My $.02, Chris

Ken Robb

05-01-2009, 09:56 PM

I think BMW X3 has a rack that works just this way.

khjr

05-01-2009, 10:30 PM

4 Door 2005 and later Toyota Tacoma...I owned a 4Runner for 16 years and spent a lot more time wishing I had a pickup than being happy I had an SUV

Thanks. That's too funny - I'm in my 10th year as a Tacoma Ext Cab owner - with dropout mounts installed on the bed as you've suggested. There were so many times that my steel bikes got drenched while clamped in the bed, or I had to lock my skis in the cab when I thought, "$%^&*, next time it'll be an SUV!!!" :-)

Satellite

05-01-2009, 10:40 PM

I'm in the market for a new vehicle, having discovered last weekend that the frame on my 99 Tacoma is rotted through. Thanks!Khjr,

Wow, do you drive directly in the Ocean; its a car NOT a submarine? How does one completely rot through a truck frame in 10 years? I would let Toyota know they owe you a new truck frame. The next rig you get I would recommend washing the undercarriage a bit more often or apply some frame saver.

Satellite

Dekonick

05-01-2009, 10:41 PM

The Fit's not four or all wheel drive. The Element is, though - that should be on the list.

-Ray

My neighbor has an Element - it fits 2 bikes upright without removing rear wheels. 56 and 54 cm frames, but a 58 or larger would be no problem. You can actually fit one bike without removing wheel, another with the front off, and all of this without removing any seats.

Dekonick

05-01-2009, 10:44 PM

Minivans may not be sexy, but they are awesome for bikes. And kids...dogs...groceries...the family...

Cinci Jim

05-01-2009, 10:45 PM

First is Toyota making good on the frame?

Second you can thank a crappy US big 3 supplier who lied to Toyota and now does not have the money to make good on our warranty claim back to them so Toyota is eating the cost - Thanks Dana!

Third - check out the Toyota Venza - it is available in AWD

Z3c

05-01-2009, 10:55 PM

I have a Honda Element and it is a bike hauling machine. Every time a friend sees me just roll my bike out and not have to put a wheel in or anything they are jealous. Fun vehicle too; I have an SC which is not avail. in awd though.. Has been Honda solid of course.. Neighbor has one and loves it as well. Certainly should be on the list of vehicles to check out..

Good luck,

Scott

Blue Jays

05-01-2009, 11:02 PM

A good vehicle to consider is the unique Honda Ridgeline as well.
It gets consistently solid ratings and I came close to purchasing one.

Huge image of bike inside vehicle: http://myridgeline.com/wp-content/gallery/my-ridgeline/pict1442_0.jpg

vandeda

05-01-2009, 11:12 PM

Khjr,

Wow, do you drive directly in the Ocean; its a car NOT a submarine? How does one completely rot through a truck frame in 10 years? I would let Toyota know they owe you a new truck frame. The next rig you get I would recommend washing the undercarriage a bit more often or apply some frame saver.

Satellite

Toyota has had problems with rotting frames on Tacoma's, like this (http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/10230/cat/1122) '99 ... bad enough that they were buying back certain years, I think '95-2000 Tacomas. I know someone personally who got the notice, had his Tacoma checked out and it was cracked due to rust, so Toyota bought it back from them.

I know my road & mountain bikes fit upright in my Vibe, though their small frames. Road frames are 50 cm, so I'm not sure if a 57 cm will fit. However, talking rust, my rear hatch is beginning to rust and my car is an '05 (and I've seen others complain of rusting hatches on their Vibes/Matrixes), so I would buy another vehicle from Toyota/GMs Nummi plant (which is where both Tacomas & Vibes/Matrixes originate).

rwsaunders

05-01-2009, 11:32 PM

Minivans may not be sexy, but they are awesome for bikes. And kids...dogs...groceries...the family...

I've found that chicks dig mini-vans. :cool:

khjr

05-01-2009, 11:37 PM

How does one completely rot through a truck frame in 10 years? I would let Toyota know they owe you a new truck frame.

They already knew, before I did, in fact. Apparently, it was a manufacturing defect, as per attached. I never got the notification, as I've moved twice since buying the truck new.

http://www.showstop.org/images/truck/rust_warranty/dealer-communication.pdf

I think that if they could give me a new frame, I'd probably take it. I've spent a lot of time getting the truck exactly how I wanted it - regeared lower, new springs, shocks, header, exhaust, supercharger, etc (all low-key, not noisy or lifted or anything like that). It's just a sturdy, reliable, and fast ride. In researching the new RAV 4s, I'm finding owner reviews of the "drive by wire" technology a little off-putting - lots of complaints on the RAV4 forum. Apparently, however, frames for my 99 are out of production, so Toyota is going to buy the truck back from me.

The body on this truck hadn't even begun to rust, and the bulk of the frame isn't even rusty, per se. When I was doing the brakes last weekend, however, I looked up and noticed that a entire wall of the frame's box section was falling out! It's pretty close to where the forward leaf spring eye attaches - probably the worst place to have your frame crumble. Needless to say, I'm driving it pretty tentatively now...

1happygirl

05-01-2009, 11:50 PM

I love my mini and I bought an interior bike mount that has pressure rod, as many quick releases as bike will fit and no drilling. I think they also have one that fits in pickup too, but thumbs up on the minivan for what my opinion is worth

dspang

05-02-2009, 12:03 AM

I've got a 2004 Toyota Sienna, AWD. Works great for the bikes, I can roll in a 62cm bike in there without taking off the front wheel. The rear wheel slides in between the middle two seats.

But the bikes are secondary, need the room for the kids and the rest of their soccer team... :banana:

Oh yeah, the biggest pain in the arse is the tires, the van has no room for a spare tire so it came with run-flats. $200 per corner (for a minivan?????!!!).

sevencyclist

05-02-2009, 12:12 AM

Honda Element is great for carrying bikes without any wheels removed. You can fit 2 bikes complete with 3 people in the car.

dogdriver

05-02-2009, 12:22 AM

Thanks. That's too funny - I'm in my 10th year as a Tacoma Ext Cab owner - with dropout mounts installed on the bed as you've suggested. There were so many times that my steel bikes got drenched while clamped in the bed, or I had to lock my skis in the cab when I thought, "$%^&*, next time it'll be an SUV!!!" :-)

Well said-- a camper top is key. We spent the first year without one, but consider it mandatory eqpt on a pickup now...

Cinci Jim

05-02-2009, 12:25 AM

so I would buy another vehicle from Toyota/GMs Nummi plant (which is where both Tacomas & Vibes/Matrixes originate).

The Tacoma's in this period are only from NUMMI - Production in Mexico started later. Only the Vibes are made at NUMMI, the Matrix is made in Canada.

dd74

05-02-2009, 02:14 AM

victoryfactory

05-02-2009, 06:05 AM

09 Subaru Forester.
With the sunroof, I can't fit my bike upright but if
You skip the sunroof option you get 4" more
Headroom!
That makes it totally worthwhile to drag your bike
To a dealer and see if it fits

A great car. All wheel drive, 25 mpg handling and
Comfort all in a nice looking package

VF

zap

05-02-2009, 09:40 AM

If you must have bikes mounted upright inside, minivan is probably your best bet.

Wagons are best, for handling and fuel econ., but you must lay down bikes. We use an old quilt to keep the bikes from banging around.

dogdriver

05-02-2009, 09:56 AM

mwos

05-02-2009, 10:02 AM

FWIW, I believe the Ford Explorer can accommodate an upright bicycle. I know I can fit my bikes in my Mountaineer (which is an Explorer) with front and rear wheels attached.

Beyond being roomy, handle very well for their size and reliable, a main reason I would consider another Explorer/Mountaineer is because they're supposed to have the new Ecoboost engines, which are high-pressure fuel injected and turbocharged V6 with well over 300 hp, but get near turbo diesel fuel mileage (20-25 mpg city). These Ford Ecoboost engines will supposedly be some of the most efficient non-hybrid gasoline engines in the world. Plus, the new Ford Explorer doesn't look too bad.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9084/2010fordexploreram2hx5.jpg
***disclaimer: some say this is a concept, others say this is the real deal come 2010 or 11. I can't say for sure. It's still pretty cool.

How do you get bikes upright in an Explorer?

We were in Wyoming and hit a deer. It took 2 weeks to gets my Honda CRV repaired and we rented a Ford Explorer, not our choice it was all the rental company had. We had 2 bikes, cooler and luggage for a 2 week vacation in the CRV and we couldn't get everything in the Explorer. For a big vehicle it had less room than my CRV. With the back seats down we had to pack the luggage on the bottom and lay the bikes over the top of the luggage.

We didn't take the wheels off, didn't think of it because it's not necessary in my 05 CRV. BTW, the Explorer was a gas hog, didn't have enough power to climb the mtn passes here in Colorado, didn't handle as well as my CRV, etc.

With my CRV we do have to turn the bikes front wheels sideways but that's easier than taking the wheel off. I did buy a bike rack but I very rarely use it.

I suggest taking bikes with you when you buy and fitting them in the vehicle. Our salesperson thought we were a little nuts but bikes fitting inside the car was my criteria for my new car.

C50

05-02-2009, 10:31 AM

I went from an Acura Integra GSR to a Honda Element. I thought no way I was going to give up the sports car for an Element. Then I checked one out (EX with 4 wheel drive) and started to configure the seats and put my bikes in and take them out.

Someday I will own a second car for fun but I won't be getting rid of the Element as long as I have bikes and I want to transport them easily and securely.

Check one out, even if you decide on something else you will be glad to see the versatility as something to compare to others.

sjbraun

05-02-2009, 10:36 AM

The salesman laughed when we brought my son's cello with us, too.
Any car whose trunk couldn't hold the cello was crossed of the list immediately.

I have a friend who owns an Element, easily fits two bikes ( a 56cm and 52cm) upright with the wheels on. I'm pretty sure I could get my 58 in too.

If I had such a vehicle, I think I'd mount a 2x4 to the floor and slap some fork mounts on it. I have a friend who uses this approach in her Pilot, works well.
She secures the 2x4 to the carpet with adhesive back velcro.

Steve

don'TreadOnMe

05-02-2009, 10:50 AM

re: the Element, are there 5th seat options for it? Even after-market?
I'd love one, but the 4 passenger thing kills it for me.
I'm looking for a big wagon, and keep closing in on a Volvo V70.

I need room for 5 people, and 2 big dogs, and I _do not_ want an suv or minivan.

Chad Engle

05-02-2009, 01:12 PM

How do you get bikes upright in an Explorer?

We were in Wyoming and hit a deer. It took 2 weeks to gets my Honda CRV repaired and we rented a Ford Explorer, not our choice it was all the rental company had. We had 2 bikes, cooler and luggage for a 2 week vacation in the CRV and we couldn't get everything in the Explorer. For a big vehicle it had less room than my CRV. With the back seats down we had to pack the luggage on the bottom and lay the bikes over the top of the luggage.

We didn't take the wheels off, didn't think of it because it's not necessary in my 05 CRV. BTW, the Explorer was a gas hog, didn't have enough power to climb the mtn passes here in Colorado, didn't handle as well as my CRV, etc.

With my CRV we do have to turn the bikes front wheels sideways but that's easier than taking the wheel off. I did buy a bike rack but I very rarely use it.

I suggest taking bikes with you when you buy and fitting them in the vehicle. Our salesperson thought we were a little nuts but bikes fitting inside the car was my criteria for my new car.

+1

My plan was to buy the qr type thing from Yakima and mount them to a board hoping to only have to take the front wheel off the bike and hold it by the fork. Mtb would not fit, saddle and bars were too high. I'm only 5' 10", so the bike isn't that big.

FWIW, two Explorers in our family, can't fit bikes vertically in the back.

I received my Hollywood Pro Ride hitch rack last night. Assembly went well, only stripped one bolt. It has an anti play device built into it that seems to work well. More on that after I get it on the road.

palincss

05-02-2009, 03:24 PM

victoryfactory

05-02-2009, 03:47 PM

How much extra is the helicopter to lift it into Antelope Canyon?
You can actually drive right up to that point at Antelope canyon
(with permission from the local Navajos)
Photography there is like shooting fish in a barrel. Just point your camera
anywhere and set it for 30 sec. exposure. Good tripod recommended.

VF

dd74

05-02-2009, 03:51 PM

How do you get bikes upright in an Explorer?
The rear seats - both rows - can come out completely from an Explorer. Basically after that you have floor to ceiling headroom.

We were in Wyoming and hit a deer. It took 2 weeks to gets my Honda CRV repaired and we rented a Ford Explorer, not our choice it was all the rental company had. We had 2 bikes, cooler and luggage for a 2 week vacation in the CRV and we couldn't get everything in the Explorer. For a big vehicle it had less room than my CRV. With the back seats down we had to pack the luggage on the bottom and lay the bikes over the top of the luggage.

We didn't take the wheels off, didn't think of it because it's not necessary in my 05 CRV. BTW, the Explorer was a gas hog, didn't have enough power to climb the mtn passes here in Colorado, didn't handle as well as my CRV, etc.

With my CRV we do have to turn the bikes front wheels sideways but that's easier than taking the wheel off. I did buy a bike rack but I very rarely use it.

Your first mistake was hitting a deer. ;) Gas hog, not enough uphill power - there's a connection - as in you were probably flailing on the engine to make it provide more power, which will ruin the MPGs on a Prius as well as an Explorer.

I suggest taking bikes with you when you buy and fitting them in the vehicle. Our salesperson thought we were a little nuts but bikes fitting inside the car was my criteria for my new car.
Yep. Same here.

merlinmurph

05-02-2009, 06:02 PM

Yup, last two cars I bought, I brought my bike along to make sure it fit standing up, and lengthwise. One salesman didn't know what to say when my bike wouldn't fit in one of his cars and I walked away.

I had a 4Runner for 9 years. It worked great, but bigger frames may be tight. Got an Element a year ago and it's cavernous. One rear seat is permanently removed and bike goes right in, held with a bungee.

Murph

mwos

05-02-2009, 10:13 PM

The rear seats - both rows - can come out completely from an Explorer. Basically after that you have floor to ceiling headroom.

Your first mistake was hitting a deer. ;) Gas hog, not enough uphill power - there's a connection - as in you were probably flailing on the engine to make it provide more power, which will ruin the MPGs on a Prius as well as an Explorer.

Yep. Same here.

Actually, the deer hit us! We were watching very carefully, it was sunset and we were driving into the sun. It hit on the driver's side, probably jumped into us from the other side of the road. We thought a large bird hit us. The CRV didn't miss a beat, not a jolt with the impact! $5,000 damage to the vehicle.

We couldn't take the seats out of the Explorer because it was a rental and we had to drive it back home to Denver.

I was the driver, I'm pretty gentle on the gas pedal and usually drive the speed limit. For some reason, maybe, lack of oxygen :)? it just didn't want to accelerate up to Eisenhower tunnel. Even at the speed limit and on back road gas mileage wasn't as good as the CRV.

The Explorer is a roomy car, I guess, for a lot of passengers but I'm not a soccer mom and I wanted a vehicle that carries skis, or camping gear and bikes and provides a sleeping place for me when the campgrounds get too smokey from people trying to burn wet wood (asthma). Since I'm small the CRV does the job I need it to perfectly.

I'm not sure the new model of the CRV has the same roominess that the model I have does. They designed it to be convenient for women with strollers. It used to be advertised here as the "Colorado Recreational Vehicle", I don't hear that ad any more.

Satellite

05-02-2009, 10:54 PM

Tundra rust (http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/04/27/toyota-tundra-frame-rust/)
Wow Toyota will buy the vehicle back for full retail. Is that Full-Retail of what you paid new or Full-Retail of Blue Book today? If it's Full Retail of the New Vehicle Price that is awesome, ten years for driving your truck for free.

We have a Toyota Prius bought new but now out of warranty and we got socked with $1,000 driver head light replacement bill. It seems they have to remove the front bumper of the vehicle to replace the head light bulb and ballast. Ridiculous and it�s a known problem with the Prius.

Satellite

dd74

05-03-2009, 12:37 AM

Actually, the deer hit us! We were watching very carefully, it was sunset and we were driving into the sun. It hit on the driver's side, probably jumped into us from the other side of the road. We thought a large bird hit us. The CRV didn't miss a beat, not a jolt with the impact! $5,000 damage to the vehicle.

We couldn't take the seats out of the Explorer because it was a rental and we had to drive it back home to Denver.

I was the driver, I'm pretty gentle on the gas pedal and usually drive the speed limit. For some reason, maybe, lack of oxygen :)? it just didn't want to accelerate up to Eisenhower tunnel. Even at the speed limit and on back road gas mileage wasn't as good as the CRV.

The Explorer is a roomy car, I guess, for a lot of passengers but I'm not a soccer mom and I wanted a vehicle that carries skis, or camping gear and bikes and provides a sleeping place for me when the campgrounds get too smokey from people trying to burn wet wood (asthma). Since I'm small the CRV does the job I need it to perfectly.

I'm not sure the new model of the CRV has the same roominess that the model I have does. They designed it to be convenient for women with strollers. It used to be advertised here as the "Colorado Recreational Vehicle", I don't hear that ad any more.
Well, I do like the CRV, as well the Fit. I'm small, too. I don't need much. Luckily. The Explorer/Mountaineer was my wife's - girl scout troop leader - lots of brownies and girl scouts in the back, etc. If I get another Ford SUV-type, it may well be the Escape Hybrid.

dd74

05-03-2009, 12:55 AM

One vehicle that really impressed me did so in a very strange way. The Subaru Outback is an outstanding urban/city vehicle - here's why:

At the second to last leg of the Tour of California, toward the end, the race came into Pasadena. The race took 5 laps around the Rose Bowl, then went up into the (hopelessly beautiful) residential area of South Pasadena.

Where I was positioned for two of these laps was at the end of a shallow downhill in the residential area, that branched off to a sharp left or gradual right. The peloton went left, but while negotiating a concrete island in the intersection, then a narrowing road which went over a bridge and up a steep hill.

The peloton came down this stretch at what looked like about 25 mph, maybe faster. All the cyclists made it through this turn. But the support cars, chasing down their riders, had a bit more trouble.

Of all the cars that fishtailed, skidded or missed the turn completely while trying to keep up with their riders, the only one that held its own without a lot of drama was the Subaru Outback - mostly, from what I figure, as being the AWD.

Anyway, that really made me like the Outback, which I've always liked. An Outback turbo diesel should come to the U.S. soon. That one will be the Outback to have - enormous power but very, very good gas mileage. :)

Ken Robb

05-03-2009, 01:15 AM

dd74

05-03-2009, 02:07 AM

It was the skill of the driver. :)
That too. :cool:

BumbleBeeDave

05-03-2009, 07:09 AM

First is Toyota making good on the frame?

Toyota has a recall and a buyback program on these late 90's Tacomas! My girlfriend just got $9600 for her '96 that had 120k miles on the clock. The recall is for '95-'98 at least. Go Google "Toyota Tacoma recall" and it will pop up. You take it to the dealer and they inspect it. If it fails--and hers did--they give you 150% of the Blue Book value of it. They also give you credit for whatever accessories you have on it . . . cap, tow package, etc.

BBD

gemship

05-03-2009, 08:08 AM

Tundra rust (http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/04/27/toyota-tundra-frame-rust/)

Thanks for the link. I have a 2000 Toyota Tundra that I bought when it was a year old. Great running vehicle but the frame..... I lost my spare too just like this guy writes about only I'm not sure where it happened :butt: I filed a complaint with the highway safety commision and they even sent me a copy of the report which I may of thrown away in disgust. I brought it to the attention of the dealer after Toyota told me to go see them and at this point nobody is acknowledging responsibility of this. I looked into the Tacoma warranty and it seemed to me that while some owners were getting a refund for the full sale price many were only getting the trade in value. For my Tundra which is the base model with standard cab,v6,manual that trade in value is only about 3k. I think I'd almost rather take my chances :rolleyes:

deja vu right here;

Robert Libby Said in April 28th, 2009 @12:02 pm
I own a 2000 Tundra and just had the spare tire drop to the road, with no warning, as I was driving down a slow, 30 mph, country road, good thing I wasn�t on the turnpike! This could have been a real life, or, death disaster. This happened during the afternoon on 4/18/09. I then scheduled an inspection at the nearest Toyota dealer and was told that the frame can not be repaired, and gave me an estimate for a $6,500.00 frame replacement, which is more than what the truck is worth. This is a 2000 Tundra SR5 V-6, 5 speed standard shift basic truck, no power anything. I�ve been driving for over 43 years, and a loyal Toyota driver for the past 25+ years. I had driven a 1992 Toyota 4X4 truck, (made in Japan), for 14 years before buying this used Tundra four years ago. That truck frame had your standard surface rust but that was it. The Tundra frame is flaking off in big sheets of rust, I�ve never seen anything like it. They should have kept making them in Japan, at least you could depend on them then. Now I�ve been reading about all the other Tundra owners dealing with the same issue and others. I buy Toyota�s to prevent becoming one of the road hazards on the road, but now have become just that. This is not acceptable with today�s technology.

RPS

05-03-2009, 03:16 PM

I�m a Honda fan, and since Motor Trend reports Honda will have a competitor shortly for the Mazda 5, I�ve become interested due to my aging CR-V being up to 190K.

In researching what that model might be I�ve read reports of a 2010 Honda Passport FWD/AWD SUV/tall-wagon to be released later this year or early next year based on the European Accord wagon, which looks to me more like a competitor to the Toyota Venza, not the Mazda 5. Unfortunately any Accord-based vehicle would likely be too large for my needs.

Instead I hope Honda imports the FR-V which looks more bike friendly in pictures I�ve seen. With its unusual 2-row 6-seat configuration I think it may even fit a small tandem inside for short trips with both middle seats removed. I like that it looks wide and stable (unlike the Mazda 5 tall and narrow), but I�m not sure how I�d feel about a third middle seat in the front (albeit foldable into a center console).

Anyway it�s cool that cyclists will have even more choices.

khjr

05-03-2009, 09:22 PM

I�m a Honda fan...my aging CR-V being up to 190K.

I'm a Honda fan too, based on the great experience that I had with my 93 Civic liftback, before I bought the Tacoma. I bought the 2.7L 4 Cyl Tacoma because of the head gasket problems that Toyota was having with their V6s, but found it to be somewhat underpowed - I always had to downshift from 5th on the highway hills. Hence the effort that I spent getting it "just right" with the lower differentials, header, exhaust, and supercharger. Whew - that was a lot of work, and I'd rather be riding my bike so, never again...

The CR-V's are reputed to be underpowered. Did you find the CR-V to have enough power, and do you live in a flat or hilly area?

JeffS

05-03-2009, 09:44 PM

My wife has a V6 RAV4 and I don't think it has the vertical room to sit a bike horizontal. I've never tried it, but it just doesn't seem that tall. I think they raised the floor so the seats would fold flat. The rear deck covers a storage compartment. If you could remove that deck (haven't tried) it would likely give you room to drop the wheel down 8+ inches and would likely allow for enough clearance.

I'm not a fan of the car in general. We really liked her previous gen RAV4, but this one is not something I would recommend. Instead of feeling small and nimble it feels more like a bigger SUV. Partly due to the engine, which is really too big for the car. I believe the gas-mileage is also overstated based on the way people actually drive them.

RPS

05-03-2009, 10:40 PM

The CR-V's are reputed to be underpowered. Did you find the CR-V to have enough power, and do you live in a flat or hilly area?Mine is the first year -- 1997 -- and they only came with AWD which makes them a little heavier. Back then they had less HP and torque from the smaller 2-liter engine. I live in a very flat area and don't miss more power at all -- however I'd rather have higher MPG than the extra engine size anyway. I've driven it in hills and it's OK as long as you plan ahead and don't expect too much acceleration on uphills, into the wind, etc.... And I'm OK with that.

I drove a family member's newer FWD CR-V with the 2.4 liter which has much more power and torque for about 4,000 miles on a tirp out west traveling through the Rockies and it performed much better than mine. It actually got better MPG on the highway and had plenty of power to climb all grades with ease. The 5-speed auto helped there compared to my 4-speed auto which leaves a big jump between drive and OD.

The newer CR-V is also much taller inside than mine. I can put two bikes up to about a 54 CM size upright by leaning against the sides, but on the newer CR-V the headroom is far greater. Don't know exactly how much more but I'd guess close to 6 inches or so.

Volant

05-04-2009, 12:04 AM

If you can find a Montero (the full-Monty, NOT the sport), it'll fit 3 full bikes without taking wheels off or lowering saddle (top of saddle on mine is 85 cm from BB). I have the 3rd row jump-seats removed. I can also fold the 2nd row seats up or just the seat-backs down and the front passenger seat down and fit a 10' ladder inside the vehicle.
It's been the BEST vehicle ever for me (out of 20), getting 20 (city) and 26 mph, a real-off-road capable tank (true 4L). I have a pic somewhere with a kayak, a canoe, two bikes on top and two inside and me sleeping on the folded down heated seats at an adventure race a few years back (plus all my other needed crap (pack, etc.) inside.
It's time to turn 'er in though (230k miles and could use new rings - starting to burn some oil) and there is NOTHING on the market today that compares.
If you want a manly-looking-truck and not an Element or minivan, find an old Monty ('99 or '00 was the last ladder-frame units before going after soccer-moms. But, up until '06, the interior size was about the same).

dd74

05-04-2009, 01:23 AM

Sooner or later - probably sooner - many manufacturers will come out with SUVs equipped with clean diesels. If you're familiar with clean diesels, they emit virtually no exhaust, plus have incredible power and fuel mileage. Mercedes Benz, Volkswagen and Audi are the only manufacturers I know of who sell these vehicles in the U.S. I'm not certain about how well either of them stow bicycles, but they are very efficient and FWIW, very fast.

If you want a deal on these vehicles, check them out on autotrader or whatever other source is out there. Prices on the secondary market for these vehicles have been falling very fast. I've seen two-year-old Mercedes diesels as low as $25K, which is a steal considering they're $60K at the dealer. ;)

khjr

05-04-2009, 06:39 AM

I'm not a fan of the car in general. We really liked her previous gen RAV4, but this one is not something I would recommend. Instead of feeling small and nimble it feels more like a bigger SUV. Partly due to the engine, which is really too big for the car.

That's in line with much of what I've read, i.e. that the engine sizing would feel great if one felt more connected with the vehicle, but their electric steering and throttle design (aka "drive by wire") degrade this connection.

Many people on the Rav4 forum complain of V6 throttle lag when merging into difficult traffic situations, as the computer takes what seems like a few seconds (an eternity when one's merging) and then "launches" a well powered vehicle into traffic. They claim that this behavior is unpredictable, thus difficult to account for.

By no means is there consensus on this issue but, suffice to say, those remarks and some complaints regarding quality have motivated me to continue researching past what would have been my first choice - the V6 Rav4 otherwise looked like the perfect fit.

Alan

05-04-2009, 06:41 AM

Ck out the link below for a quality inside carrier for bikes. I have used in minivans and now use in my Vibe which is great for hauling bikes except it is not quite tall enough so saddles need to be off the bikes.

Link to inside carrier:

http://www.bikeporter.com/btp.html

Alan

dvs cycles

05-04-2009, 08:47 AM

They already knew, before I did, in fact. Apparently, it was a manufacturing defect, as per attached. I never got the notification, as I've moved twice since buying the truck new.

http://www.showstop.org/images/truck/rust_warranty/dealer-communication.pdf

I think that if they could give me a new frame, I'd probably take it. I've spent a lot of time getting the truck exactly how I wanted it - regeared lower, new springs, shocks, header, exhaust, supercharger, etc (all low-key, not noisy or lifted or anything like that). It's just a sturdy, reliable, and fast ride. In researching the new RAV 4s, I'm finding owner reviews of the "drive by wire" technology a little off-putting - lots of complaints on the RAV4 forum. Apparently, however, frames for my 99 are out of production, so Toyota is going to buy the truck back from me.

The body on this truck hadn't even begun to rust, and the bulk of the frame isn't even rusty, per se. When I was doing the brakes last weekend, however, I looked up and noticed that a entire wall of the frame's box section was falling out! It's pretty close to where the forward leaf spring eye attaches - probably the worst place to have your frame crumble. Needless to say, I'm driving it pretty tentatively now...I am on several Tacoma forums and I thought they were doing a buy back on the first Generation Tacomas??????

RPS

05-04-2009, 09:14 AM

Sooner or later - probably sooner - many manufacturers will come out with SUVs equipped with clean diesels.Until recently I would have agreed but now see some manufacturers putting the brakes on diesels for numerous reasons, including the bad economy and the higher cost of the fuel (although it�s starting to come down closer to gasoline which is a good thing).

However, I think one of the main reasons is newer direct-injection turbocharged gasoline engine technologies that have closed the gap between gasoline and diesel fuel efficiency; and at a lower cost. And that�s just the start � I think we�ll see much advancement in gasoline engines in the next decade or so (provided the government doesn�t kill them first).

Not to hijack this thread, but it�s a cool subject. Ok, back to bike-friendly vehicles. :beer:

damcyclist

05-04-2009, 09:52 AM

We have a 2002 Forester and it is great. The 02 is appears larger inside then the newer ones, but I would suggest taking your bike to the dealer. I fit my bike no problem, and my wife is a wood worker and fits an 7' board inside at angle, we even carry bags of concreate for our deck project. The foresters love the snow too.
John

I love my 02 Forester - but no way can I fit my bike inside with it standing up, unless I remove the seat & seatpost.

Best bike carriers by far (already mentioned) MiniVans - If you can stand the ridicule :). I would go with the uglement, if it got better mileage -the FIT looks hard to beat for single rider/ bike carrier. Has anyone tried to put a bike upright in the new Kia Soul, or the Scion XB?

How strange is it that some people buy cars based on their bikes! ;)

Ray

05-04-2009, 10:00 AM

-the FIT looks hard to beat for single rider/ bike carrier. .....

How strange is it that some people buy cars based on their bikes! ;)
The Fit, aside from not being 4wD, is great for two riders/bikes too. Three would be pushing it, and you surely couldn't do multiple bikes with more than 2 people. But two riders, two bikes, no problem. And, as Jbay proved, two riders and one tandem can even fit in there. Which continues to blow my mind a little bit.

I don't think people buy cars JUST based on their bikes, but no reason it shouldn't be ONE factor to consider.

-Ray

RPS

05-04-2009, 10:16 AM

The Fit, aside from not being 4wD, is great for two riders/bikes too.FYI, I've read that it's available as 4WD in Japan. Apparently Honda doesn't think we need that option here. :(

csm

05-04-2009, 10:27 AM

I had an Element also.... easily fit my 57cm legend w/o removing a wheel.
I am waiting to see the 2010 E's look like; or if they're even gonna be around. My 05 was one of the best cars I've ever had.

dd74

05-04-2009, 11:11 AM

Not to hijack this thread, but it�s a cool subject.
It truly is. There are articles on line that talk about how phenomenal the new-age turbo diesels are.
1) The guy who drove a Mercedes E320 from Ann Arbor (I think) to DC on one tank of fuel.
2) There's a YouTube video of the guy in Canada getting 52 mpg hwy (higher than a Prius, BTW) in a V10 Audi SUV diesel.
3) The Audi Le Mans race car that destroyed the field during Le Mans based on torque, fuel mileage and engine toughness alone.
4) And how about the new BMW 3-series diesel with 425-pounds of torque. 0-60 in 5.8 seconds but gets high 20mpgs in the city. I've seen one on the road; it's the same as any other BMW 3 series. What one doesn't know is it can give an M-series BMW a run for its money speed-wise.

dd74

05-04-2009, 11:13 AM

I don't think people buy cars JUST based on their bikes, but no reason it shouldn't be ONE factor to consider.

-Ray
Cars these days are lifestyle choices. I think for serious cyclists it is very important for them to consider a car based on whether or not it can fit their bicycle on the inside.

Consider how a parent might think when left to choose between a two and four-door car.

Tobias

05-04-2009, 12:07 PM

It truly is. There are articles on line that talk about how phenomenal the new-age turbo diesels are. Not just diesels, but gas also.

High-pressure direct injection and high-boost turbocharging may finally lead to two-stroke gasoline engines becoming practical since unburned fuel will not be sent down the exhaust. And if workable, eliminating valves from the head may permit variable compression ratio engines to finally become a reality.

The recently announced Lotus approach to achieve variable compression ratio using a two-stroke engine is incredibly simple compared to anything I�ve seen (and engineers have been trying for almost a century). I hope they can make it work so it becomes as common as variable valve timing � which also took a long time to perfect.

With DI, turbocharging, two-stroke, and variable compression future engines could become much smaller, lighter, more powerful, and more fuel efficient. Who knows, some day we may be able to run both gasoline and diesel in the same engine.

dvs cycles

05-04-2009, 03:01 PM

I don't think people buy cars JUST based on their bikes, but no reason it shouldn't be ONE factor to consider.

-Ray Maybe so, but I WON'T buy a model IF it can't do what I want with my bikes.
Bought my 2004 RAV4 because it would carry 2 singles my size and 2 riders.
Got rid of it because I didn't like putting our Tandem on the roof when we got one, and went back to a Tacoma with a shell.

dd74

05-04-2009, 06:28 PM

Not just diesels, but gas also.

High-pressure direct injection and high-boost turbocharging may finally lead to two-stroke gasoline engines becoming practical since unburned fuel will not be sent down the exhaust. And if workable, eliminating valves from the head may permit variable compression ratio engines to finally become a reality.

The recently announced Lotus approach to achieve variable compression ratio using a two-stroke engine is incredibly simple compared to anything I�ve seen (and engineers have been trying for almost a century). I hope they can make it work so it becomes as common as variable valve timing � which also took a long time to perfect.

With DI, turbocharging, two-stroke, and variable compression future engines could become much smaller, lighter, more powerful, and more fuel efficient. Who knows, some day we may be able to run both gasoline and diesel in the same engine.
A clean-burning two-stroke car engine would be very cool. I saw a two-stroke RZ-350 on the road Saturday, and while I have a huge soft spot in my heart for those engines, they're nastier than lawn mowers and chainsaws.

So, to have a cleaner two-stroke would definitely get my attention. :cool:

RPS

05-05-2009, 01:22 PM

A clean-burning two-stroke car engine would be very cool. I saw a two-stroke RZ-350 on the road Saturday, and while I have a huge soft spot in my heart for those engines, they're nastier than lawn mowers and chainsaws.

So, to have a cleaner two-stroke would definitely get my attention. :cool:What Lotus is trying to solve with the Omnivore project is unlike a typical two-stroke engine in a weed eater or motorcycle; and pollution shouldn�t be a factor. If anything it has the potential to be more fuel efficient which could reduce CO2.

One of the problems with intermediate-size 2-stroke engines that don�t rely on crankcase compression for scavenging (like small engines in most weed eaters and motorcycles/scooters which end up burning a lot of oil) is how to get them started. Turbochargers -- pretty much a given for efficiency and power density � don�t work until the engine starts, and can therefore not be used for scavenging during the starting process. Decades ago 2-stroke Detroit diesels were more popular but they relied on supercharging so they could start; and if additional power was needed, they combined turbocharging and supercharging � making the general design too complicated, expensive, large, and heavy for automotive use IMO. In time they were replaced by 4-stroke diesels.

There are external ways around this starting problem, but that too adds cost and weight (more common on engines the size of a house). I haven�t seen details on how Lotus is scavenging the Omnivore research engine but it would be great if they can make it work. In theory a 2-stroke engine is so much simpler, smaller, lighter, more powerful, etc�. OTOH why don�t we have more 2-stroke diesels running around today? And won�t the same problems apply to DI gasoline engines?