Pegoretti Palo Santo?

[roguedog]

Hey folks,

There's a Palosanto frameset for sale in my size (or pretty close). I've been thinking about getting a Peg but was leaning towards a Duende or Marcelo.

Does anyone know what makes the Palosanto different from the other 2? I'm a bit confused since on the Competitive Cyclist site, it seems the Duende and the Marcelo share the same geo so I assume the Palosanto might as well?

So if the diff isn't in the geo.. then I assume it's in the ride due to how it's built and what it's built with.

Can someone let me know how the ride differs from the other 2?

[cadence90]

I can't comment on ride quality difference, because I think that's a very subjective issue.

The standard geometry would have been/is similar on the Palosanto, the Duende, and the Marcelo.

Older versions of all three frames would have been built of Dedacciai tubing; newer (after 2004/05, I think) Duendes and Marcelos are built from Columbus Spirit tubing.

The Palosanto was Dario's "classic" TIG steel frame: 1" HT; smaller OD front triangle; etc. This is generally considered the "least stiff" frame of the 3. This does not mean it is not an excellent, very comfortable frame.

The Duende is a cross between a Marcelo (1 1/8" HT; beefier OD front triangle) and a Palosanto (it uses the slimmer Palosanto rear triangle, including the socketed dropouts).

The Marcelo utilizes the beefier chainstays and seatstays for which this frame is famous. The Marcelo would be considered the "stiffest" of the 3 frames.

All 3 are Pegorettis. :)

[MilanoTom]

I've got a Palosanto in a small size (49cm c-to-c) and am very pleased with it. It's quite comfortable, yet still stiff enough when I need to get out of the saddle. I suspect that in my size, a Marcelo or Big Leg Emma would be a bit too stiff.

Even though the tubes in the Palosanto have more "traditional" diameters, they're not "skinny" tubes. The below is copied from Gita's website and are specs for the 2005 model. As reference, the top tube is the same diameter as that used for the original Masi 3V, the seat tube on the Palosanto has a larger diameter than that on the 3V (31.7 vs. 28.6) and the downtube on the Palosanto has only a slightly larger diameter (31.7 vs. 31.4).

Tube shapes and dimensions:
Round Top Tube 28.6 (0.75/0.55/0.75)
Round Down Tube 31.7 ((0.8/0.6/0.8)
Round Seat Tube 31.7 (0.6/1.35)
Tapered Seat Stays 17 (0.6)
Double Ellipse Tapered Chainstays 24

If you take a larger size, the Palosanto might seem less stiff than you'd expect or want. In a smaller size, it might be ideal for you.

Regards,
Tom

[roguedog]

Thanks for the insight guys.

So the Palosanto is still considered a racing bike.. it's just that it's bit more comfortable (less stiff).

In reading the old postings and from what you say, Tom, I think the Marcelo is probably going to be too stiff for me and it seems that it really doesn't come into its own until it's being pounded on.

So after reading the old postings, I'd narrowed it down to the Duende if I got one "off the shelf" or previously loved.

That is,.. until the Palosanto came along.

Tom, what are the sizes of the other bikes you ride, if you don't mind me asking? In one thread it seemed that they are larger than they seem "just spec'd." I normally ride a 47-49ST with a 53TT.

The PS is a 50cm with a 52.5TT.

Whatcha think? Should I just go for it? Maybe I could get it just to get a taste for Pegs before I plunk down a chunk of change?

[MilanoTom]

I thought about bidding on that same Palosanto. I'm a little under 5'7" with about a 29.5" inseam. The rest of my bikes run between a 53cm and 54cm top tube, and the Peg only has a 52cm top tube. It works for me, though. I show a little more seatpost than on my other bikes, but didn't end up needing a longer stem. A local framebuilder (who's painting a steel Peg fork for it) said that if I was using it to "cruise" I might do OK with a slightly larger one, but for fast riding, it's just right. When I told him about the one on eBay, he told me to just go and ride the one I have.

I wouldn't mind having a Duende, but I really don't think it would be significantly better than what I have. If the Palosanto would fit you and you can get it for a reasonable price, I don't think you can go wrong. If it doesn't end up being what you want/need, you can always resell it.

Regards,
Tom

[KeithNYC]

Do you know what the wait list is for most new Pegs? And the cost? Just buy the damn thing :) And it's Palosanto, not "Palo Santo". :rolleyes: :)

[dookie]

oh...i thought you meant this... (http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/year-round-brews/palo-santo-marron.htm)

[roguedog]

Thanks, Tom. Hmm.. decisions.

Keith, yeah.. I forgot what it was spelled like when I was typing up the topic.

And yeah.. that's why I'm tempted by this one since the wait is like 2 years or something!

[MilanoTom]

Thanks, Tom. Hmm.. decisions.

Keith, yeah.. I forgot what it was spelled like when I was typing up the topic.

And yeah.. that's why I'm tempted by this one since the wait is like 2 years or something!

Not only that, but the Palosanto has been discontinued for a year or two. You might be able to get one custom ordered, but I'd hate to see the wait...

Regards,
Tom

[roguedog]

Wonder why they discontinued it in the US?

[sjbraun]

The Marcelo is described accurately enough, as "stiff." You pedal, it goes, you pedal harder, it goes faster.
But rest assured, it is in no way uncomfortable, at least that's my experience riding my 175 pound carcass on a 58cm Marcelo.
As a comfort bonus, I can fit 25mm Michelin Pro2s on it, but its really nice with 23mm tires too.
For comparison, the Marcelo is orders of magnitude (yeah, really, orders of magnitude, my rear end has special comfort detecting sensors that tell me these things,) more comfortable that the 753 tubed Waterford I road previously.

Don't let people other people's opinions dissuade you from considering a Marcelo. (you should believe me, because of the special sensors in my a**.)

Steve-who better stop goofing off and get ready for work.

[MilanoTom]

Wonder why they discontinued it in the US?

Being a bit of a cynic at times, I wonder if Gita's decision to drop it from the lineup in 2006 might have had to do with the fact that the Palosanto was the lowest priced steel Pegoretti. The following year, they dropped the lowest priced aluminum bike, the 8:30AM. That left no Pegoretti frameset under $2000.

Regards,
Tom

[roguedog]

How much were PaloSanto's new?

[MilanoTom]

How much were PaloSanto's new?

It depends on the year. Back in 1999 (see linked catalog scan) with a steel fork, it was $1150.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=447498&postcount=24

In 2003, it was $1250 with a full carbon fork. By 2005 (its last time in the catalog), the price had increased to $1600.

I bought my 2005 on a closeout (amazing, but true) in 2007 for something like $1200.

If you haven't checked out Gita's site yet, you should. Click on "FRAMES" and you can get to catalog archives back to 2003.

http://www.gitabike.com/cgi-bin/shop/pegoretti_loadhome.cgi?user_id=46427&file=pegoretti.html

Regards,
Tom

[roguedog]

Thanks, Tom, for all your help (and everyone else too!)

I did see that but I didn't catch the little price in the bottom corner last few times I went to oogle at the bikes.

Guess I should oogle less and pay more attention :rolleyes: