What is reasonable to you?

[endosch2]

OK, so lets say you have 15 K in your pocket, retirement planned for, emergency savings set, good employer, no short term financial stress, etc.

How much would be reasonable to spend on a bike? At what price point would you be happy?

Where do you see diminishing value to spend more than that point?

At what point would you not want more?

Everyones values are different, I am just curious what people would spend.

Dont give a lot of background - just the amount. I am thinking for me about $6500 right now.

Just curious - Thanks!!

[gman]

I was in the exact same situation after my relocation to Texas last year and my "Welcome to DFW check" in the form of a Barnett Shale gas lease for the sum of $12000.

I have lusted after a Legend Ti for years. Unlike in my younger years where I had much lust but no money, I now have 'some' money, but also a family and more sensibility.

I purchased an HSG Ti frame new from a shop and bought Dura Ace 7800 and built my own wheels. Total price tag with lots of goodies on it - $3500.

It's probably 95% of what the Legend Ti is for half the price.

In the end, it's about what inspires you, what fits you and what you will most likely get on and ride.

[false_Aest]

I don't think I could justify anything over the cost of a "nice" frame with Ultegra..... the frames that I'm lusting over max out at about $2800, Ultegra from Europe is about $650. Wheels might be another $800.

I guess that brings me to about $4,000 ± 10%.

But I'm young and in the scared ****less mode of life right now (seeing my parents 58 and 61 loose over half their retirement).

[dogdriver]

New frame / fork-- $2K
Great gruppo-- $1.5K (DA, RED, Record)
Excellent wheels-- $1K (I'm a CK/DT guy-- built for $600, but everyone has their own opinion...)
Bits-- $500

So there's $5000 for an outstanding build, all bought new. I can't imagine needing more than that.

That said, I've never had more than $2.5K in any of my bikes (many put together with fresh used stuff) and don't think that I'd be any faster or more comfortable if I spent four times as much.

My $.02, Chris

[ti_boi]

Wow....You could also be the bargain hunter and look for a closeout or a garage sale item. A little riskier but who knows.

[endosch2]

Wow....You could also be the bargain hunter and look for a closeout or a garage sale item. A little riskier but who knows.

Like I said, "everyones values are different", but how much would you spend at that the garage sale and not want more......

[ti_boi]

Like I said, "everyones values are different", but how much would you spend at that the garage sale and not want more......


believe me I understand. There are two things that I am passionate about...OK...three things...

Sporting Goods

Guitars

Cars

In each case I spend way more on them than I probably should. But man oh man I see each as usable works of art.

Case in point I like staring at my Be Cu Pings...and my Cameron putter almost as much as using them.

The other day I was in a guitar shop and the guy there, who was very cool and knowledgeable, said he thought two thousand dollar guitars were a bargain. That price for something that you love as much as you do and use so much and for so long is reasonable. I agreed.

Ride as many bikes as you can. Go with Serotta Titanium in the end.
It is truly art that you can ride....I also am really into the Vanilla and the Kirks but don't own one.

So I would say $5k for a bike is right on. You might find one cheaper though. Don't settle -- you only go around once.

[dekindy]

What kind of riding do you want to do? How many miles? Where? I think anyone could be happy with a Shimano 105 equipped bike. But if you are going to ride long distances and thousands of miles then the additional expenditure is worth it. I would have been content with my steel Fierte if I had not seen a demo Legend and F3 fork in the Serotta Garage at a great price. But I also don't require a custom frame either.

If you are going to do different kinds of riding, you may be looking at allocating your funds between two bikes. Much more information is needed to make a recommendation. ATMO.

[Ti-Boy]

Decide what bike you want and buy it. Shop the product- not the price.

[paulandmonster]

10k on bike nago sr11 bora wheels get from uk or italy 5k for great bike trip through italy maybe pay for bike from here and pick up in person

[endosch2]

Decide what bike you want and buy it. Shop the product- not the price.

So what product would you buy and at what price - everyone has something in mind.....

[TimD]

Ottrott ST 2nd hand, close enough fit, $2400.

DT Swiss wheels - $750

7700 9-speed gruppo - $1000?

Bits - $500 max if you are careful

Assos to wear - $1200 (no, I didn't)

$4500 and you'll have something very special indeed.

:banana:

[paulandmonster]

and start hitting the web it took me while but i got an extreme c colnago frome for 1600 new i got sr11 from italy for 1800 a kit cabrino slr saddle from uk 125.00 look keo pedals ti from old bike, bars a stem lying around now i have nucleons on it that i had in closet i think i paid 200.00 for them last year. i have a pair of ec90s aero on way with veloflex tires 975.00 so for well under 5k im riding a bike that would be around 10k at lbs

[mike p]

It's different for everyone! After four years both my kids have graduated debt free! Granted my son went to the US Naval Academy and you guys helped pick up the tab. My daughter is debt free because of her working 3 jobs, scholarships, and our help. My house is paid for and I've got no debt at all. Granted my 401K aint what it used to be but hopefully 15 years from now it'll be ok. I still have a hard time spending over 3k for a bike. It depends on what you use it for I guess. I race, and after 2-2.5k you aren't buying anything thats going to make a difference between me winning or loosing a race. I have quite a few bikes but most were bought cheap on the bay and I make projects out of building them up for some purpose or other. If you got time it's amazing how nice a bike you can build (2nd hand) from spare parts and e-bay. FUN!

Mike

[Johnny P]

Reasonable to me is 3 to 4 K.

[RPS]

$3,500 would be enough to get what I'd want.

Custom steel frame and fork with Ultegra. It's what I ride most of the time while leaving more expensive bikes at home.

[Onno]

Interesting thread. I just bought a brand new John Deere garden tractor and it cost me about the same as a low-end built up Serotta. There are a lot more complicated parts on the tractor, though not quite so shiny, and there's only one color scheme available. It occurred to me that I probably would not spend that much on a new bike, so I'm coming in about where lots of other people here are: about 3500. I bought my Concours with DA in 2000 new for less than that. It would now cost double what I paid for it.

[android]

I'd be willing to put $3000-$4000 into a custom frame and then save some bucks buying the parts on eBay or from PBK and other European sources. Could probably do something pretty nice for under six grand.

[JohnHemlock]

$3k without much thought, $4k with a bit of thought, $5k with some serious thought. Above that it would have to be something extremely special or money would have to be extremely devalued at that moment in my life - at that point I would have to agree with the philosophy, "It's just a bike." YMMV.

[robin3mj]

$4k could get me to where every part on the bike is exactly what I would choose if given the choice.

$3k could get me 90% of the way there, happily.

$2k and a bit of research/looking would get me something I could probably ride without any complaints for 5-10 years, assuming it fit.

Hell, my "good" bike (out of two) cost me $1,500 and there's not much on it I would start changing anytime soon.

[Dekonick]

15k - in the form of 3 special custom frames with goodies.

This would assume that the 15k is extra cash - kids are taken care of, retirement, trinkets for the lovely wife, trips with famil - and 15k extra sitting in a pile.

[Satellite]

endosch2,

I personally think that a $1,500-2000 complete bike gets you into diminishing results. It takes a lot more money to get very little performance. Having said that I have (6) Moots and my SL build with performance wheels cost right at $9,000 full retail the other (5) were ~$6,500/each. I wanted a Ti Frame that would last forever, so I had to spend the money and I don't regret it one little ioda. One Moots lead to another and another and before I knew it I had three road bikes and three mountain bikes. Spend the money on whatcha want I get passed by $1500 bikes all day long and I still have a smile on my face the entire ride and I wouldn't trade it for a larger bank account; money doesn't make me smile. Dreams are achievable, live the dream, and ride your dream bike while you can still ride.

What are you looking at?

Satellite

[bob the nailer]

If I had 15K I could easily spend 10 of it. Cervelo S3, SuperRecord11 componentry, Zipp 303 wheels. Adds up quickly. If I were spending real money, which is to say I didn't have an extry 15, I could get by with much less, course what I would do then is keep what I have. Look 585 with campy record 10, campy eurus wheels.

[Ti-Boy]

So what product would you buy and at what price - everyone has something in mind.....

Crumpton $4800 frame/fork, DA 7900, Fizik Aliante, Easton EC90 post, old 3T BioMorphe bars, not sure of wheelset: just not tubs or cf rims.

I'm also lusting after a Pin. Prince for no logical reason.

But, I don't happen to have an extra $15k available.

[endosch2]

Actually I have an HSG that I am quite happy with. Two years old, I think I will upgrade components when I get to the 10,000 mile mark, which will be in two more years.

I just wanted to throw this question out there. I think peoples values are interesting.

I had an interesting experience at my old company - I work in sales and the company for years awarded the top three reps a stainless steel Rolex, worth about $4500. I told my wife I wanted to win the watch, I always wanted to win it.

One year they changed managers and they awarded $5K in cash to the top sales people instead of the watch. I won the award that year, and my wife told me to go buy the watch. I could not bring myself to it because I did not value that in a watch, I think i saved most of the $ however I have no problem spending more than that on a bike. I have a 7 year old swiss military watch from costco on that cost about $70.00, because I guess I dont see value in a watch, but I have put over 5K into my HSG.

[bhungerford]

depends what type of bike i'm looking/in the mood for....

commuter/townie - 2k

'go to' road bike - i think 10k would start pushing it (i think for what i do 6k is plenty good enough, but a 10k would be nice to have ;) )

'go to' mtb - 5k or so, probably less

[Ray]

Reasonable is what you can afford, no? For me, it was a $3000 frame and fork and a bunch of mostly pre-existing parts (headset and stem being the exceptions). The frame was the thing - the rest I was perfectly happy with on the old bike and equally so on the new bike. I may spend about a grand on wheels soon, but I did my first group ride in a while on Saturday and it was a good reminder of how unimportant any of the details are other than a frame that fits right and handles well with a decent set of wheels and good tires and a saddle that doesn't hurt. Beyond that, its all pretty much just fun and games.

But, hell, if I had a zillion dollars, I'd probably have about ten high end bikes with high end parts and that would seem reasonable. Not to mention another ten guitars, about half vintage and half new.

-Ray

[Sandy]

15k - in the form of 3 special custom frames with goodies.

This would assume that the 15k is extra cash - kids are taken care of, retirement, trinkets for the lovely wife, trips with famil - and 15k extra sitting in a pile.

Shameful! Simply Shameful! No mention of biscuits for Truckie! He is heartbroken. :)


Sad Sandy

[MattTuck]

to each, his own.


I've been going back and forth over whether or not I need a new bike, and if so, whether I want a custom... trying to decide if it was worth it.


Then I was eating with friends on Sunday morning at the Farmer's Diner in Quechee, and went over to the Quechee gorge village where I saw a very nice piece of furniture that was made out of antique beer casks. price tag: $5,400.

If you want high quality workmanship from high quality/scarce materials, you have to pay up.

[Chad Engle]

Easy question to answer, I'd call Mr. Kirk immediately and probably spend about $5K on the full build.

No offense to Mr. Serotta, I've already called him once.

[MIN]

i've been pondering this very question. but when building up something as special as a parlee, reasonable vs want are often at odds.

it seem that after $3.5K-4K you hit the steep part in the curve of diminishing returns.

on my next build, i am just going to build it up and ask about cost later. in the long run, it's always cheaper to go with what you wanted in the first place.

[Lifelover]

$3500 is what jumps out to me as a reasonable price. However, I could easily see it creeping to 5K.

[Tobias]

Reasonable is what you can afford, no? ...........

But, hell, if I had a zillion dollars, I'd probably have about ten high end bikes with high end parts and that would seem reasonable. Not to mention another ten guitars, about half vintage and half new.

-RayI agree and think you are right; however, since few individuals (if any) can afford everything it comes down to prioritizing what’s most important to us. I can afford to go out and buy a $10,000 bike but feel no need or desire to do so. Besides, with a choice to spend $10,000 on cycling between a $10,000 bike or a $4,000 bike and the other $6,000 on a cycling trip to Europe, I’d take the latter. Granted if I had ten times more cash burning a hole in my pocket I’d spend a little more on the bike, take a couple of cycling trips, maybe buy a motorcycle or boat, a classic Healey, etc…. In no case – even with Gates money -- would I ever buy a $10,000 bike in today’s currency (maybe in a year or two when Huffys cost $2,000 :rolleyes: ).

Not to sound altruistic, but with $10,000 to spend I’d be more likely to buy two $5,000 bikes and give one away to a relative or friend than ride a $10,000 bike myself. I don’t like things that draw attention – not that there is anything wrong with that.

[cmg]

i'd do what i always do. Buy a frame that i think will work, cobble the parts, probably campy , new chainrings, cassette, chain and try to spend as much as i can on wheels. $15k no way, never, new some of it.
currently lusting for a Fondriest x-status 49-50, Colnago masterlight 49, if one should show up on eBay. maybe a custom frame built out of spirit tubing, Mondonico, torelli, Pegerotti and either campy Shamal, neuron ultra, nimble sypder, or AC sprint 350 wheels.

[Dekonick]

Shameful! Simply Shameful! No mention of biscuits for Truckie! He is heartbroken. :)


Sad Sandy

Truckie is family-

I did say kids taken care of....

[thugly]

$2000-2500 on an S+S coupled frame and a pair of new wheels, the rest on the vacation.

[Grant McLean]

the rest on the vacation.

every time I ride it feels like a mini vacation,
so i'd just spend the money on the bike :)

-g

[rdparadise]

5k is my breaking point. I picked up an NOS Legend Ti/ST '04 model for $2500 a couple of years back, added Camphy Chorus 10 speed, neutron wheels and some other goodies and came in right at 5k. I'll have this bike the rest of my life.

BTW, just arrivd some fancy red handlebra. Waiting for the conditioner to arrive. Once that's been done I'll take some pics and share with the forumites.

Happy trails!

Bob

[DukeHorn]

Just got a calfee tetra pro with half Record/half a triple Racing T group for $1200 from a physician that is downsizing his stable of bikes. Will send it over to Calfee for a $400+ strip/repaint and I'll still have a pretty good deal in a color I want.

Living in the Bay Area you see some real nice bikes pop up on craigslist.

[Ozz]

My bikes are fine.....a $5000 set of wheels would be cool though. :beer:

[Bart001]

I've been well out of the new bike market for a while, and somehow I missed how prices had risen so high over the past few years. I had no idea that so many bikes were now in the $10k range or higher!

I bought my Concours ti in 2001, splurged for Record parts, and thought I was being really extravagant spending over $2k (I think).

I like, and can, spend (frivolously, or not) with the best of 'em, but I don't see any $10k bikes in my future. Then again, I've spent over $10k on more than one wristwatch, so I guess it's just what 'your thang' is.

[endosch2]

So at what point today do you hit diminishing return?

It seems like the consensus from all the posts is 4K-5k roughly. That would get a nice ti frame and good components. Nice wheels, but not Zipps or Lightweights, right?

At what price do you max out on performance and durability and get little else for spending more? I am hearing 4-5 K right?

[palincss]

One could make the case that there's little if any real performance benefit by going from 105 to Dura Ace components (or the Campagnolo and SRAM equivalents), so the point of diminishing returns is, I think, actually at substantially less than $4-5000.

[Ray]

One could make the case that there's little if any real performance benefit by going from 105 to Dura Ace components (or the Campagnolo and SRAM equivalents), so the point of diminishing returns is, I think, actually at substantially less than $4-5000.
Diminishing returns are like "reasonable" - eye of the beholder and at least partially based on what you can afford. I'd agree that component-wise, spending for the top group in any line is the very definition of diminishing returns. I'd stick with ultegra or chorus or veloce or rival. My bikes are total mutts when it comes to parts - I haven't bought any new components in years - just keep the chains, cassettes, and chainrings in good shape and the old stuff is doing just fine, thanks.

But in terms of frames, I'd say buying a custom from a top fitter/designer (Sachs, Spectrum, Kirk, Vanilla, Hampston, Goodrich, Bedford, Serotta with the right fitter etc, etc, etc) can move you up the price ladder pretty quickly, but it can be well worth it for a lot of folks. It was for me, when I finally did it. Wheels too - I've stayed with pretty cheap wheels, but I'd no doubt feel a big difference with a set of Lightweights if I ever won the lottery and could drop $5000 on wheels without worrying about it.

I'm not talking about the gear making anyone faster - it doesn't except for full aero stuff at the very elite level. But in terms of the feel of quality enhancing the riding experience, I don't really feel it in the parts after a certain level, but the frame and the wheels can keep getting better up to a pretty high price point.

-Ray

[Ray]

One could make the case that there's little if any real performance benefit by going from 105 to Dura Ace components (or the Campagnolo and SRAM equivalents), so the point of diminishing returns is, I think, actually at substantially less than $4-5000.
Diminishing returns are like "reasonable" - eye of the beholder and at least partially based on what you can afford. I'd agree that component-wise, spending for the top group in any line is the very definition of diminishing returns. I'd stick with ultegra or chorus or veloce or rival. My bikes are total mutts when it comes to parts - I haven't bought any new components in years - just keep the chains, cassettes, and chainrings in good shape and the old stuff is doing just fine, thanks.

But in terms of frames, I'd say buying a custom from a top fitter/designer (Sachs, Spectrum, Kirk, Vanilla, Hampston, Goodrich, Bedford, Serotta with the right fitter etc, etc, etc) can move you up the price ladder pretty quickly, but it can be well worth it for a lot of folks. It was for me, when I finally did it. Wheels too - I've stayed with pretty cheap wheels, but I'd no doubt feel a big difference with a set of Lightweights if I ever won the lottery and could drop $5000 on wheels without worrying about it.

I'm not talking about the gear making anyone faster - it doesn't except for full aero stuff at the very elite level. But in terms of the feel of quality enhancing the riding experience, I don't really feel it in the parts after a certain level, but the frame and the wheels can keep getting better up to a pretty high price point.

-Ray

[palincss]

But in terms of frames, I'd say buying a custom from a top fitter/designer (Sachs, Spectrum, Kirk, Vanilla, Hampston, Goodrich, Bedford, Serotta with the right fitter etc, etc, etc) can move you up the price ladder pretty quickly, but it can be well worth it for a lot of folks. It was for me, when I finally did it. Wheels too - I've stayed with pretty cheap wheels, but I'd no doubt feel a big difference with a set of Lightweights if I ever won the lottery and could drop $5000 on wheels without worrying about it.


Let's put this in perspective for a moment. I agree with your choice of top-tier builders, except for the unaccountable omission of J.P. Weigle. We're now speaking of the best frames on the planet, now or ever, and I don't think you can spend more than $5000-6000 on them. Some, depending on options, are a good deal less ($2800 for a basic Goodrich, for instance). We've been talking about $14,000 bicycles. I'm having trouble imagining how you could spend 9K on components for your Weigle or Sachs - for that matter, most of those obscenely expensive components would look terribly out of place on such frames.

[Ray]

Let's put this in perspective for a moment. I agree with your choice of top-tier builders, except for the unaccountable omission of J.P. Weigle. We're now speaking of the best frames on the planet, now or ever, and I don't think you can spend more than $5000-6000 on them. Some, depending on options, are a good deal less ($2800 for a basic Goodrich, for instance). We've been talking about $14,000 bicycles. I'm having trouble imagining how you could spend 9K on components for your Weigle or Sachs - for that matter, most of those obscenely expensive components would look terribly out of place on such frames.
I agree. First Weigle should have DEFINITELY been on there. There only used to be a few, and he was one of them. Now there are several and he's definitely still one of them, but there are too many for me to get 'em all - I know I left some others off too - Strong, Nobilette, etc. And I agree that spending on the high end groups is clearly diminishing returns. So that might put you or I at a point where diminishing returns start at, what $7-8 thousand. For others, that $8000 Meivici and $4500 Lightweight wheels are damn near essential. And for others, a $2000 Trek or Giant is gonna be the greatest bike they could imagine.

The whole point was that "IT DEPENDS".

Steve, I think you and I end up agreeing on an awful lot. We just sometimes disagree as to whether everyone else should agree with us also. :cool:

-Ray

[djg]

Dunno.

I may be in your hypothetical position or I may be short. My wife and I have been incredibly fortunate and we're very well off relative to most (most Americans who are still employed, never mind most Africans, etc.) Do I have 15k or 1.5k burning a hole in my pocket? It's hard to know.

I'm 48. If I keep showing up for work, then, supposing the dollar is vaguely intact, retirement -- a nice version of a comfortable, middle-class retirement -- shouldn't be a problem. OTOH, I cannot retire to a comfy middle-class lifestyle now because, even assuming some non-negative rate of return (and avoiding wild optimism about the future), I don't I have enough money (broadly speaking) for it.

The mortgage? Entirely manageable -- we owe way less than half of the current appraised (either county or private) value of the house. We could pay it off now, in fact. OTOH, we don't want to pay it off, because we don't want to dump low-interest, tax/subsidized debt (our only debt) by reducing, by a big chunk, money set aside/invested for other things (like retirement, above, education, below, etc.). So it's an entirely manageable six-figure debt.

Education? I have quite a bit of money allocated for the kids' education -- six figures in 529 plans. If all three kids attend VA state universities, there's more than enough for tuition already, and pretty close to tuition, room, and board. OTOH, if all three kids were to attend the college I did, and there were no financial aid . . . well, that's pushing half a million bucks, ignoring the fact that college costs have been outstripping inflation for maybe thirty years running, and I haven't set that much aside for them in 529 plans -- not close. There's other money, but see retirement, etc., above.

So, given all of that, what would it mean to say that I have 15k in my pocket or not? It's not actually in my pocket or my wallet. I could raise the money without borrowing it or suffering penalties on 401k funds, etc., . . . I I have it in that sense. I could buy a 15k bike without adding to my debt. I could buy several. OTOH, that would involve dipping into retirement monies, etc., etc.

We spend money. We took the kids to Utah for spring break -- a few days of skiing, a few days down south in Zion National Park. We stayed in nice places. OTOH, I still notice.

Bikes? I spend a bunch on bike stuff, but I still look for value. I wanted to get a new cross bike at the end of the '08 season and I wanted to give my brother my old one. I bought a Serotta, but I bought the owners' club deal on the GP Suisse Ti -- so about 1800 for the frame and fork, maybe another six for Centaur bits scrounged here and there, and a new set of plastic reynolds cx wheels on a super internet close-out deal (but still 8-something). So that's about 3,500 or so. And maybe that's about what I have in my HSG Ti road bike as well. I have one cross bike, one road bike (set up for racing and riding) and one fixed gear bike (a converted road bike, used on the road).

What's reasonable? I don't know what's reasonable. I have no criticism to offer for anybody in my circumstances who spends double what I do or half. Looking at my own revealed preferences, I seem to feel comfortable dropping 3500 or so on a bike, but I don't seem to feel comfortable spending 5k, let alone 15, and I don't seem to feel comfortable acquiring a so-called stable of bikes. I've thought about the blowout Colnagos at 2500 for frame and fork, but I haven't pulled the trigger -- really, there's nothing else I want my HSG Ti to do, and I sort of think that the Colnago would be something of a thrill for a few weeks and then just another excellent road bike, where the marginal value of a second excellent road bike could be pretty darn small for me. I've been thinking I might spring for a custom frame for my 50th -- about 15 months away, in which case I might stick with Serotta, with a trip to Saratoga, but I might very well go for a change (thinking Tom K, with a fitting in the barn). It's NOT going to be a Meivici, not that there's anything wrong with that choice for anybody else.

Part of this accounts for the wife's expectations and preferences -- she hasn't given me a hard time about my bike expenditures, but she notices and thinks some of them are a little nuts. 15K? She might give me a hard time, or a very hard time, and I might think she'd be right to do so. Not gonna happen.

[Sandy]

Using the original post's $15,000 figure available to use, $5,000-$6,000 would be reasonable to me. I wouldn't pay $10,000-$15,000 for a bike, no matter how much I had available. Just too much. I want to believe that what I purchase makes some sense, for me, relative to value. I don't see what one can really receive in a $15,000 bike that one could not get for $5,000-$6,000 except for some really expensive wheels or frameset which would be almost meaningless for my abilities and my perception of "value".

For $5,000-$6,000 one can buy a very nice new custom steel bike with nice components and wheels. An astute purchaser can make great buys in the used bike market if he or she finds a bike that fits.


Far from new and very used,


Sandy