I'm having a tough time deciding... [Archive]

fourflys

04-20-2009, 09:18 AM

So, in one of my recent posts I asked what you would buy if you had $3,500? I got great responses, thanks all!

I'm still having trouble deciding between Steel, Ti or Carbon. I'm not opposed to a used Ti bike, so that keeps Ti in my $3,500 range. Obviously, I could get a very nice steel bike for this price and this seems to be a sweet spot for carbon as well... ARRGH! ;) I guess this is a good problem to have.

I come to the forum for wisdom from people who have some experiance with each. I come to the Serotta forum as I think some of the others would just spout "Carbon, Carbon!" Agian, I'm not opposed to carbon, just not sure if that's what I need...

So, here is a recap of what I need/want the bike to do. I have no aspirations of racing and I don't want a 2" saddle to bar drop... I'm looking for a bike that I'll be comfortable riding 100 miles or 10 miles. I don't need rack braze-ons or randonneur capabilties on this bike and I don't think I'd need clearences for anything bigger then a 28c tire. I'd like the bike to be at or under 18#, is that reasonable?

I did shoot a quick email to the Hampsten brothers and both came back and said Ti first, steel for my budget (assuming new from them, I'm sure). Andy said his ride of choice is Ti.

I guess since I've only owned aluminum and my steel Riv Bleriot (31#!), I don't want to miss out on Carbon or Ti...

Thanks for putting up with me,
Chris

Richard

04-20-2009, 09:32 AM

"I guess since I've only owned aluminum and my steel Riv Bleriot (31#!), I don't want to miss out on Carbon or Ti..." I think this eliminatates steel.

So...put the words STEEL and CARBON on two pieces of paper, post them on a dartboard so that you can't tell which is which, throw ten darts and go after the one with the most hits.

avalonracing

04-20-2009, 09:42 AM

It sounds like you are a guy who doesn't buy a bike every year. In addition you said that you have no interest in racing. So... Why even consider carbon?

I've never owned carbon but I've owned good Ti, good steel and good aluminum. The only way that I would buy carbon would be for a race bike that I was willing to replace with a year or two (or after my first good spill).

Buy a decent Ti bike, it will ride great and last longer than you will. Good steel is fine too but unless you are racing and replacing leave carbon out of it.

rpm

04-20-2009, 09:46 AM

The answer's easy. You talked to two of the most knowledgeable people around and you got clear advice. Take it. You won't be disappointed.

I have a Strong ti, a Strong steel, and Serotta CDA with carbon rear, wonderful bikes all. But there's no doubt about which is the 'A' bike, the one I'll reach for when the big century ride is starting, and that's the ti bike. It just excels in liveliness, responsiveness, and comfort.

You could get a get great ti bike from Tom Kellogg, Serotta, or Carl Strong, but you've already established a relationship with Hampco, so why not just follow through them?

zap

04-20-2009, 09:52 AM

Save another US$500 and get a Serotta HSG with Dura Ace kit-new.

fourflys

04-20-2009, 09:54 AM

You could get a get great ti bike from Tom Kellogg, Serotta, or Carl Strong, but you've already established a relationship with Hampco, so why not just follow through them?

I'd love to get a Hampco Ti bike, a new one is out of my $3,500 complete bike ceiling though I fear....

If I go Ti, I'm guessing I'd need to be looking for a used frame/fork or complete bike.

I'm not counting steel out BTW as I'm not sure I'd have the experience of a quality, fast steel bike...

I'm beginning to feel that Ti may be the way to go though...

Thanks and keep the comments coming!

Mr. Butterworth

04-20-2009, 09:54 AM

If I had to have one bike, and only one bike, it would be steel. My Coeur d'Acier is the best-riding bike I've ever had and is my go-to rig for most rides.

jblande

04-20-2009, 09:57 AM

the new ti from serotta might just about it your bill. once you get all the components on, it will slightly top 3500, but it will be a fine new ti bike. i would check it out more closely.

jt2gt

04-20-2009, 10:52 AM

Buy this...right now. Your size and budget and serious cache. Don't know the seller, but he gets high marks from folks and I bet if you offered him your budget he might take it. I don't see how you couldn't enjoy this bike for a lifetime.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=58505

JT

jlwdm

04-20-2009, 10:59 AM

fourflys

04-20-2009, 11:13 AM

In your last thread you were given a lot of great options to buy a great bike at a low price. The deals on used bikes are unbelievable right now. For examples Kirks and Strongs and Serottas. There are great bikes out of all of the materials you have discussed.

The key is does the bike fit you. It seems to me you have not focused enough on that upfront. If you go to a great fitter and find out what you need you can probably find a really great used option.

On the other hand if you end up getting a new bike you will have great fit info to start with.

The trouble is you are going to find a recommendation for every material here - they can all be good if they are built right for your style of riding and fit you.

Jeff

I agree that fit is of the utmost importance and I will be getting a fit soon as I figure out which fitter I want to use.

At this point I'm still pondering my options as I still have to wait until my wife goes back to work in the fall (teacher) to be able to spend $3,500 on a bike (now if I found killer deal on frame right now for under $1k...)

I realize there will be lots of opinions/recommendations on the different materials, but I'd still like to hear them all and make a decision from that. Especially by those that give a reason they like XXXX material...

palincss

04-20-2009, 11:16 AM

I'd love to get a Hampco Ti bike, a new one is out of my $3,500 complete bike ceiling though I fear....

If I go Ti, I'm guessing I'd need to be looking for a used frame/fork or complete bike.

I'm not counting steel out BTW as I'm not sure I'd have the experience of a quality, fast steel bike...

I'm beginning to feel that Ti may be the way to go though...

Thanks and keep the comments coming!

The one area where you're apt to have a problem with a Ti frame is the part about 28mm tires. Ti frames almost always are to be found with carbon forks and there aren't all that many of those that offer clearance for true width 28mm tires.

fourflys

04-20-2009, 11:21 AM

The one area where you're apt to have a problem with a Ti frame is the part about 28mm tires. Ti frames almost always are to be found with carbon forks and there aren't all that many of those that offer clearance for true width 28mm tires.

I guess 28s aren't a deal breaker as a Ti frame with 25s will prob. feel as comfortable as some others with 28s... Good point though, thanks! :)

Lifelover

04-20-2009, 11:25 AM

It's so easy to decide how to spend other peoples money!

IT has been addressed, but I think the first thing you need to do is decide if you are going to buy new or used.

If New:

I think you are right that Ti is not the best option. There maybe some Ti available at this cost but your options would be limited.

Considering you are asking the question here, custom steel seems to the way to go. For $3500 you can get a great bike. For me it would be a between a Serotta (CDA or Fierte) or a Land Shark. I would have a little more trust that Serotta would "get it right". However, the Land Shark is something that you might not see another one of. I think I would tell John what I want ride wise, give him some fit numbers and ask him to paint it in his best Joe Bell conservative theme.

If you happen to be lusting for a brand name bike like the Specialized, there is nothing wrong with going that way. I also don't understand the thinking that you should only get Carbon if you are racing.

If Used:

WOW, the options are limitless but I think I would focus on Ti. Keep looking for deals on a Legend. I do think it is the mark that all others are measured by. You shoudl be able to get a frame made by all the major players at a good deal used. To make it feel like a new bike, try to find a deal on a F/F/HS and than get a new build kit and wheels.

fourflys

04-20-2009, 11:38 AM

If Used:

WOW, the options are limitless but I think I would focus on Ti. Keep looking for deals on a Legend. I do think it is the mark that all others are measured by. You shoudl be able to get a frame made by all the major players at a good deal used. To make it feel like a new bike, try to find a deal on a F/F/HS and than get a new build kit and wheels.

I have NO issues buying a used Ti bike! And if used, I was thinking a Legend or a Moots with the Legend getting the nod due to it being painted (just not a fan of raw ti for some reason, though not a deal breaker)
Thanks,
Chris

Ozz

04-20-2009, 12:01 PM

Get your fit and figure out what size you need....then, post a WTB in the classifieds and see what is for sale.

If you are committed to riding 25+ tires, you might just rule out carbon and most Ti, as stated earlier, carbon forks don't come with much clearance.

FWIW - I picked up my Legend used, and it is a near clone geometry to my custom CSI. I put it together for about your $3500 budget....of course, I already had a set of wheels for it.

Pete Serotta

04-20-2009, 12:01 PM

Chris, get the fit nailed down as to what you need. Then a used MOOTS or a SEROTTA are excellent. (yeah I am biased but the Moots is a wonderful bike.)

For Steel the CDA is hard to beat and in most instances, for a 57cm, will come in built up at between 17 and 18 lbs. (less than a lb more than a MOOTS or a LEGEND based on what I have seen.)

I have NO issues buying a used Ti bike! And if used, I was thinking a Legend or a Moots with the Legend getting the nod due to it being painted (just not a fan of raw ti for some reason, though not a deal breaker)
Thanks,
Chris

Ken Robb

04-20-2009, 12:28 PM

If the Bleriot @31.5 lbs. is the only bike in your stable you might want to try some lightish steel bikes available at bargain prices. Leslie will let you try her Romulus which is 59cm Riv-fit so it will be OK for you. Even a bike in the low 20 lb. range is going to feel light to you.
I am assuming your Bleriot has triple cranks w/low Riv gearing too. You will find most "racy" bikes will come with doubles and even a compact will be taller gearing than you are used to riding. It's hilly here, you know. :)
I'm in the phone book if you want to try something from our stable.

Pete Serotta

04-20-2009, 01:04 PM

:beer: :beer: yep... :D

If the Bleriot @31.5 lbs. is the only bike in your stable you might want to try some lightish steel bikes available at bargain prices. Leslie will let you try her Romulus which is 59cm Riv-fit so it will be OK for you. Even a bike in the low 20 lb. range is going to feel light to you.
I am assuming your Bleriot has triple cranks w/low Riv gearing too. You will find most "racy" bikes will come with doubles and even a compact will be taller gearing than you are used to riding. It's hilly here, you know. :)
I'm in the phone book if you want to try something from our stable.

fourflys

04-20-2009, 02:39 PM

giordana93

04-20-2009, 03:28 PM

buy a used bike or two and shake out all your fit and ride preference issues. the market is so soft right now, it's ridiculous. you're likely to find something cheap enough with decent parts you could transfer over to your eventual dream frame, flip the used frame and come out pretty even
forget carbon. I'm not a hater, but carbon will likely have the fewest options for the tire width; its greatest asset is low weight, but unless your body fat is 5% and you're racing up l'Alpe d'Huez, that's a dumb priority to have at the top of your list. it's too easy to forget that the weight difference between the uber-light (read scary light) and most other offerings, even in steel, is about a full water bottle or so. with modern parts and wheels, any decent steel or ti ride will be light enough, and not everyone digs the feel of the light/stiff carbon frame compared to steel or ti
finally, this has been said at least a thousand times, design trumps material. besides the obvious question of fit, there is geometry, tubing diameter, etc. that can make a ti bike--or steel, or carbon--ride like crap, either too stiff (yes, that's possible), or not stiff enough, and handle like porsche or a Mack truck

slowgoing

04-20-2009, 07:09 PM

Call Tom Kellogg at Spectrum. Explain all of your concerns and watch them disappear as he works his magic.

I Want Sachs?

04-20-2009, 07:11 PM

Hard to get a steel bike complete under 18 lbs without going more expensive for lighter parts.

Seven Ti can be had complete, new, but about $500 more. Will be close to 18 lbs.

http://sevencycles.com/road_detail.php?bike=alaris

Might check to see if you can do your own saddle etc to lower cost.

Erik.Lazdins

04-20-2009, 07:40 PM

I've had a trek 5200 that I rode a ton - then got a opportunity to add a ottrott - I sold the Trek as the Serotta was better to me - it also fit me better.

I have added a Bleriot which with fenders is my rain/slop machine in which it excels

my serotta holds the 26.8mm as measured p2race michelin and is a keeper.

I would buy a ottrott or legend in a nj second should I need a road bike

that said I've never had the occasion to ride custom ti by Messrs Hampsten or Kellogg or any of the other attractive options out there

good luck on your search and keep us posted! :beer:

jt2gt

04-21-2009, 08:33 AM

Hard to get a steel bike complete under 18 lbs without going more expensive for lighter parts.

Here is one, I bet you can get under 18lbs pretty easy...and the frame is low cost especially for S3 steel. OH...and BTW, just like the Sachs, I think it is in your size range. Buy it, build it up and ride it. Bet you can build it up way under your budget.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=58651

hobartimus

04-22-2009, 09:01 PM

For what it's worth, I just bought a 2008 Fierte for $2700 about three weeks ago. It was actually a $3800 build, but discounted to $3000 due to being last year's model and I got an extra 10% because I purchased during a weekend spring clearance sale.

Anyway, I came from riding carbon Specialized Roubaix Comp and I can say that I already like the steel Fierte much more. While the Roubaix was certainly comfortable on long rides, the carbon frame felt dead by comparison. I suppose this may not be the case with super high end carbon.

It kinda sounds like you are similar to me in what you are after � I'm not particularly fast and I like doing long rides. Comfort is key. My Fierte weighs in at exactly 19lbs and I'm plenty happy.

Hope this helps.

Spud

04-22-2009, 09:40 PM

Sram Rival works great for the $$$ and it's light, have you considered a Classique from Serotta? it might stretch ya a little depending on build but it should'nt be too far off and it's custom.

2800 F/F
@ 675 for Rival
add in some mavic aksiums plus the rest of the kit and you about there and you would be getting a great bike built for you and you could possibly upgrade the wheels sometime down the road when your ready.

fourflys

04-22-2009, 10:15 PM

Anyway, I came from riding carbon Specialized Roubaix Comp and I can say that I already like the steel Fierte much more. While the Roubaix was certainly comfortable on long rides, the carbon frame felt dead by comparison. I suppose this may not be the case with super high end carbon.

Hope this helps.

Thanks! This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for! I've heard a lot of people use the term "feels dead", I'm not too sure wha that means...

Chris

rdparadise

04-22-2009, 10:27 PM

There's an '08 Legend Ti-ST with F3 fork, polished Ti for $2995 on sale there right now. I believe it's your size too, 54 cm. Anyway, building it up would be over $3500, but it's a beauty and will last you a life time.

I concur with others, used Ti or even used Steel would do you just fine. I have a Legend Ti-ST and can tell you it is a fabulous bike with a fantastic ride quality. I upgraded from a CSI in '07 and haven't looked back.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Bob

Ps. here's the link to the frame/fork mentioned: http://www.serotta.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SCB&Product_Code=C-LS-54-00898&Category_Code=DEMO

hobartimus

04-22-2009, 10:39 PM

Well, the best way I could describe "feels dead" is that carbon dampens road vibration to take away the pain, but it feels like you're riding on a hunk of plastic. The steel frame let's you "feel connected" to the road, but does not rattle you like aluminum. My steel-loving friends have always expressed this to me, but I had to own one to understand it.

gearguywb

04-23-2009, 05:05 AM

Ti is indeed fabulous. With the budget that you have set my personal expierence with ordering a steel frame from Carl Strong is that would be the way to go. You get the of a custom bike built for you. I have ridden mine for a couple of years now and love it. With a good builder they can make tube selection to get the ride that you want and fit becomes a non-issue. You can also stay well within your budget for the complete build.

JBone

04-23-2009, 02:18 PM

Just noticed you're from SD, have you considered a custom Holland Ti? Outstanding builder and bikes. Just to throw it out there for you...

fourflys

04-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Just noticed you're from SD, have you considered a custom Holland Ti? Outstanding builder and bikes. Just to throw it out there for you...

I'm pertty sure just the frame would blow my budget... But, yes I have seen and considered Holland..beautiful bikes!

abqhudson

04-23-2009, 06:57 PM

My advice. Wait for a used Ti Serotta that fits - I did and it's easily the best riding bike I've had - after Steel, Aluminum, Carbon ,ti/carbon and other Ti - all by the best builders.

fourflys

04-24-2009, 07:14 PM

So, it looks like I may have an Ottrott in my future...
My LBS has a few year old Ottrott coming on trade that sounds like it may just be what I need. :D

Pete Serotta

04-24-2009, 07:24 PM

So, it looks like I may have an Ottrott in my future...
My LBS has a few year old Ottrott coming on trade that sounds like it may just be what I need. :D

Wonderful ride.....

does it have the st rear (carbon) or ti rear? The original ones had the ti and then the st rear came out about a year or so later. Both ride well.

Post pictures and give us a ride report when you get it. PETE

fourflys

04-24-2009, 07:27 PM

Wonderful ride.....

does it have the st rear (carbon) or ti rear? The original ones had the ti and then the st rear came out about a year or so later. Both ride well.

Post pictures and give us a ride report when you get it. PETE

I'm not sure yet, the original owner will be bringing it in in about a month, I guess he has a new Meivici AE on order....