What will Ksyrium wheels do for me?

[castafly]

I'm thinking of upgrading the wheels on my Serotta Concours. I currently have Campy Record hubs laced to 32-hole Mavic Open Pro rims. These wheels seem to work fine, but I was thinking about buying a set of Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels. My question is, what difference can I expect with the Ksyrium wheels compared to my current Record/Open Pro wheels? Are the Ksyriums that much lighter and will they be more responsive and climb better? I'm not looking for racing wheels - just wheels to train, climb, and ride centuries and such.

Are there other wheels besides the Ksyrium SLs that you would recommend for price/performance?

Thanks!

[Ray]

There's a lot of disagreement over Ksyriums. Some people love 'em, lots of people hate 'em. Objectively, they're neither terribly light or aerodynamic. They do have a very stiff and direct feel. I personally like them - they're my main wheels on my main bike. Their direct feel make me FEEL faster which, since I don't care about quantitative measures of speed, is all I'm really after. That stiff and direct feel can come across as harsh, particularly on longer rides if your roads aren't great. But a lot of people can't stand them, and some of those people I hold in very high esteem, so I guess it comes down to your mileage may vary. One clear positive is that they're durable as hell. I've been riding mine for about five seasons, the first three I did a lot of miles, and I've kept the hubs maintained but have never needed to touch them otherwise. I'm not that big, but a lot of Clydesdales say the same thing.

Other wheelsets I'd think about in that $1000 - $1500 range would be the new Shimano tubeless set, Topolinos, or a couple of different Campy wheels if you're running a Campy drivetrain. There are plenty of others, but those are the one's I'd be most tempted to check out.

-Ray

[ifticjdp]

Ksyriums will not be much lighter than what you have. If you want a pre-built that's lighter, look to the Hed Ardennes or Bastogne. What you have is pretty nice-- Ksyriums don't really offer that much more, other than looks if you're into that.

[jimcav]

i've had several version over the years on bikes i bought--all made the ride harsher than either record hubs w/velocity aerohead or campy eurus

which are 2 things i'd recommend over ksyriums
or campy neutron if you don't like the G3 spokes on the eurus

or give tubulars a try and throw some solid tubulars like vittoria pave--that would be a different feel for you. lots of good deals to be had this time of year

enjoy the search

jim

[Climb01742]

FWIW, i also found Ks to ride harshly.

[Ti Designs]

I've found that Ksyriums are a good combination of light, aero and durable. They aren't that light or that aero, but so few wheels offer that combination of all three. Do they ride harsh? I think most people here are more sensitive to things like this or ride far more mileage...

[mike p]

Put me in the "I like em" camp. Stiff in wheels is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Very good all rounder do everything wheel.

Mike

[SpeedyChix]

Handbuilts. Dave/Speeddream Velocity Aerohead / DT hubs. Bladed/radial front, 2x back. Light, mid-section clincher, haven't had to true em in three seasons. Put on some Veloflex Paves and enjoy.

I found the Mavic's too harsh riding. Is rider weight part of the issue here?

If Nimble was up and running I'd suggest the Spider.

[Louis]

I'm not looking for racing wheels - just wheels to train, climb, and ride centuries and such.

I would say that OP's are just the right wheels for this.

It's not at all clear that the Ksyriums would be an upgrade. If you're looking for a change and want to try different wheels, then by all means buy some Ksyriums - they will be different.

In the long run they may or may not be an improvement over what you already have.

L

[TAW]

I've found that Ksyriums are a good combination of light, aero and durable. They aren't that light or that aero, but so few wheels offer that combination of all three. Do they ride harsh? I think most people here are more sensitive to things like this or ride far more mileage...

I'll second this. I've had Ksyriums for quite a few years now, and I don't think they're overly harsh, and I've had very, very good luck with the durability. Plus, I like the way they look, but maybe I'm just vain. They're my training wheels, and I have a variety of wheels and don't think the K's ride that badly.

[djg]

I've had two versions -- the initial pre-SL Ksyrium SSC clinchers and a later version of the SL tubulars. Really good hubs in several generations, IMO. Most people find these to be good, solid, all-around road wheels. Some folks find them harsh, although I thought they were totally fine with good tires and the right pressure and I liked them. They're not super light wheels and they're not really aero wheels either, which is fine for every day road riding. My only reservations about them might all boil down to this: full retail on them is sort of scary. I've never paid anything close to that, but at 1200 bucks or whatever, you really could be looking at aero carbon wheels or lighter wheels or, really, two full AL-rimmed wheelsets, built from good, name-brand bits, offering comparable weight and performance (maybe you could get one a little lighter and one more of a daily/rough roads set).

In your particular case . . . you know, I bet they'll feel different from your current wheelset and you might like that difference or not (some folks really don't), but . . . well, with record hubs, OP rims, and, let's assume a good build on your current wheelset, the switch might get you zero performance advantage. Not that there's anything wrong with trying something different, but unless the current wheels are broken, I'd be inclined to look for more different -- either a notably lighter wheelset, for that fast spin-up feeling, or a deep section aero wheel, or maybe some combo of the two. Otherwise, you're sort of replacing one nice set of all-around daily wheels with another one.

[jbrainin]

I think that a pair of Ksyriums would be a functional downgrade of your machine. The weight difference, if any, should be marginal while the surface area of the spokes will create *more* drag than the 32 spokes you are currently using. As others have already mentioned, Ksyriums are rather harsh feeling wheels (although many seem to mistake the harshness for stiffness.)

If you're hell-bent on a wheel upgrade, contact Jeremy at Alchemy Bicycle Works and see what he comes up with for you.

[Pete Serotta]

I like them....Have many trouble free miles on them and here in NC I do not find them rough riding.

[RBaker2778]

I have a set and I give them an "OK". Then again, I ride a Zipp 606 setup everyday now, so take my opinion FWIW.

It seems to me that for your desires, your current wheels suit you better than the Ksyriums would. Just my opinion. The Ksyriums are not going to ride better on casual century type rides and training. Stiffer, yes. No necessairily better for your purpose though.

BTW, if you were looking to upgrade to Topolino's, I have a set of AX 3.0 campy wheels, in good shape that I will sell you for a great price. Not stiff enough for my purposes, but might be good for you.

[Ray]

As others have already mentioned, Ksyriums are rather harsh feeling wheels (although many seem to mistake the harshness for stiffness.)

That's funny - I sort of thought that many seem to mistake the stiffness for harshness. Eye of the beholder, I guess. I tend to ride 'em with 25s to take the edge off of our bad roads. Good combination - very stiff and responsive feeling wheels with slightly softer tires for bad roads.

-Ray

[Peter P.]

Boutique wheels like Mavic Kysriums are a gimmick designed more to lighten your wallet than your bike. Yeah yeah yeah; all you engineering types will whip out your physics formulas to PROVE they'll make castafly a better rider, but in the end any improvement will be measured in seconds, maybe a handful of minutes over those centuries he likes to ride. Hardly worth the expense.

Castafly-you can't buy your speed. You can however, TRAIN it.

Stick with your Campy/Open Pros.

[endosch2]

I switched from old veloce hubs 32H mounted to O4CDs with straight Ga spokes and brass nipples to Ksyrium SL's . Serotta HSG Ti. 1 full Pound off the bike, 2200 miles on the SLS with no truing or adjustment of any kind. No regrets - the SLS are awesome. Very rough roads usually (northern NH). 175 Pound rider weight. Michelin 23C tires ProRace 2s.

[Ray]

Boutique wheels like Mavic Kysriums are a gimmick designed more to lighten your wallet than your bike. Yeah yeah yeah; all you engineering types will whip out your physics formulas to PROVE they'll make castafly a better rider, but in the end any improvement will be measured in seconds, maybe a handful of minutes over those centuries he likes to ride. Hardly worth the expense.

Castafly-you can't buy your speed. You can however, TRAIN it.

Stick with your Campy/Open Pros.
Anyone who buys almost any new equipment because they think it'll make them significantly faster is gonna be sorry (except full aero stuff for time trialing at an elite level). But different wheels CAN have a significantly different FEEL and different people may like different feeling wheels or different feeling wheels for different applications. I have a couple of sets of OP/Dura Ace wheels and I like 'em just fine and keep using them. But I also have a set of Ksyrium SLs and a set of Mike Garcia handbuilts (some combination of Velocity and DT) and I like both of them in very different ways than the OP sets. As long as you're realistic in your expectations, I think some of the boutique wheels can be worth it.

-Ray

[palincss]

Anyone who buys almost any new equipment because they think it'll make them significantly faster is gonna be sorry (except full aero stuff for time trialing at an elite level).


I don't know -- it is possible that a different set of tires might make them significantly faster, depending on what they're riding now and what they get. I think tires are apt to make a greater difference than wheels, especially since the OP already has a good set of wheels -- and, they're a whole lot cheaper to try!

[CNY rider]

In that price range, for pre-builts, you should also be looking at the Dura-Ace tubeless wheels.
I have a set with Hutchison tires and they are far and away my favorite wheelset now.
I still like my Open Pro sets too, but I doubt you will find the Ksyriums a big upgrade, whereas the Shimano/Hutchison combo delivers a wonderful road feel that none of my other wheel and tire combos can match.

[Ken Robb]

I had a set of blade-spoke semi-aero Ksyriums and I did not like the way they got shoved around in sidewinds. 32 hole OPs for me on Campy and Shimano hubs for overall riding satisfaction.

[Pete Serotta]

I had a set of blade-spoke semi-aero Ksyriums and I did not like the way they got shoved around in sidewinds. 32 hole OPs for me on Campy and Shimano hubs for overall riding satisfaction.


yes, I have had some sidewind problems at times and most of the boutique wheels with a high sidewall (higher than open pro) exhibit this trait. I agree with Ken on the OP and another rim to look at is DT> THe wheels for my travel bike are OP with shimano hubs...They work great and probably weigh around 1650 -1700 grams, ( yeah I weigh quite a bit mare than that.

In fact a bottle of red is about 1000 grams.... :beer:

[Charles M]

Up till recently I've thought of Ksyriums as simply a waste of money for the aske of bling.

No I know I am a fan of bling, but it's generally very functional high end stuff.


Past Ksyrium designs have been, in a word, Crap.

Bad in side winds.

Bad Aerodynamics

Bad weight distribution

Bad durability in general (rims cracking at the machined areas and spoke breakage and pull through)

And silly replacement prices for spokes.

And the stiffness was there, but not as much as folks gave em credit for. A lot of that was percieved based on a chunky looking design but in practice they were not HUGELY more stiff than traditional designs.

If they were 20-50 80% stiffer than orthers, do you really think that a company like Mavic who are famous for putting 20 marketing terms on a single wheel would not have shouted that info from the tallest tree?




Ksyriums were not a performance design. They were a VERY cost effective way to build a wheel.

Because of that, the OE prices were extremely low and they were very popular but they were NEVER a good wheel.


I thought they were virtually the worst premade popular wheel available... Then came the Rsys... all the disadvantages of Ksyrium with worse Aerodynamics and very bad durability.


That said, the very latest SL's ride better that previouse wheels and the rims seem to hold together better. But the fulcrum version of these wheels is still better from Hub to rim...


But at the end of the day there are several hand built combinations I think that are better in virtually every measure, from weight (including weight distribution) to durability to maintenance and replacement parts ease.

Mavic have some pretty sweet products and have had great stuff in the past and I know this has been a winner for them in dollars, but I wish they would run out a few things in a different direction rather than trying for the next Ksyrium. They're great servicing guys, great business guys and great guys in general

[Elefantino]

If you have any loose fillings, avoid the Ks.

If don't want to have any loose fillings, avoid the Ks.

[jbrainin]

If you want to have an interesting discussion about Ksyriums, ask David @ Nimble Wheels what he thinks of them.

BTW, Does anyone know what's up with Nimble at the moment?

[Ray]

There's a lot of disagreement over Ksyriums. Some people love 'em, lots of people hate 'em.
Like I said....
:cool:

-Ray

[rugbysecondrow]

I'm thinking of upgrading the wheels on my Serotta Concours. I currently have Campy Record hubs laced to 32-hole Mavic Open Pro rims. These wheels seem to work fine, but I was thinking about buying a set of Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels. My question is, what difference can I expect with the Ksyrium wheels compared to my current Record/Open Pro wheels? Are the Ksyriums that much lighter and will they be more responsive and climb better? I'm not looking for racing wheels - just wheels to train, climb, and ride centuries and such.

Are there other wheels besides the Ksyrium SLs that you would recommend for price/performance?

Thanks!

Not a fan of the Ksyriums. I bought some used and rode them three times and not only was the ride worse, but my wallet was lighter. Sold them almost immediatly.

If you want to sell your Campy Open Pros, let me know.

Cheers,
Paul

[dogdriver]

I have a set of SSC SL's -- a couple years old, true, functionally perfect, Ti Shimano freehub, a couple knicks on the black anodizing, about 2000 miles, I'd sell for $370 shipped. Includes a Mavic spoke wrench.

I liked them (I weigh 190#), my 130# wife hated them. Stiff or harsh-- I guess its all in your perspective...

Cheers, Chris

[Der_Kruscher]

FWIW I had a set of Elites for seven seasons of heavy use including some crummy weather riding in the NW. Last year was the first year that a spoke wrech ever touched them. I used them for a truncated cross season and ended up doing the rear wheel in by cracking a rim on a curb. While the Elites were a little heavy, they were no moreso than a set of Open Pros laced to a Shimano or Campy hub - I'll concede that the rims were probably heavier but, whatever...I liked the way they rode and they were super durable. If the SL's are anywhere near as durable then I say they're a winner.

[rustychisel]

Interesting, Der Kruscher, because I was ruminating on the same lines...

I was going to write 'if you buy Ksyriums buy the best ones you can afford because I believe with the trickle-down effect you're not getting the best engineering which made Ksyriums such a successful wheel in the first place'.

My problem is with the cheaper variants such as the Elite. Zycral spokes? Nope. Milled rims? Nope. etc etc. Glad you had good luck mostly with yours.

I've owned the SSCs for 6 years, never had more than a stray 'ping' out of them, had the rear trued once. Excellent wheels; strong, costly, look good, spin really well, not harsh (running Veloflex Pave at 115psi), moderately light. Not the sexiest or lightest or most aero, but neither am I.

[shinomaster]

I think they will ride fine on a plush ti frame but they will add to the harsh ride and road buzz of stiff aluminum fram like a cannondale. I just did a nasty ride today on my Ksyrium ES hoops and to me they felt great. We did 25 miles and about 3000 feet of climbing. They roll up hills nicely and they are quite stiff and responsive (luckily we have smooth roads here in Oregon.)If you don't ride up very many hills they there are certainly better choices, like the campy neutron for instance.

[rwsaunders]

I've owned the SSCs for 6 years, never had more than a stray 'ping' out of them, had the rear trued once. Excellent wheels; strong, costly, look good, spin really well, not harsh (running Veloflex Pave at 115psi), moderately light. Not the sexiest or lightest or most aero, but neither am I.

I'm with the Chisel. I have a set of older SSC's and a set of Open Pros. For me, the SSC's and OP's have been equally reliable and the roads around here suck. The SSC's seem to spin more freely than the OP's, but I don't know that I'd pay the difference based upon your stated riding parameters.

If I had to pick one to be stranded with 20 miles from home, I'd go with the OP's. It's a lot easier to pull out a broken spoke on the OP's and keep riding. One snapped spoke on the SSC's and you're calling the missus for a lift.

[cdimattio]

That's funny - I sort of thought that many seem to mistake the stiffness for harshness. Eye of the beholder, I guess. -Ray

While I recognize that the most frequent subjective feedback is "extremely stiff" or "very stiff" I am not sure the data bears this out.

You can more easily alter ride characteristics, including a perception of stiffness, with tire selection, tube selection and tire pressure.

Wheels are studied with some frequency, but I believe there is some good data here: http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-23159755.html

I believe the Ksyriums are quite durable, but have seen a few instances when spoke failure does not provide an option for riding home.
Some like the look of them, but hard to attribute the "bling" to something that has become so ubiquitous in the perfomance wheel category.

I think you can find a handbuilt combination which trumps them on many fronts for the same cost.

[skijoring]

I think they will ride fine on a plush ti frame but they will add to the harsh ride and road buzz of stiff aluminum fram like a cannondale. I just did a nasty ride today on my Ksyrium ES hoops and to me they felt great. We did 25 miles and about 3000 feet of climbing. They roll up hills nicely and they are quite stiff and responsive (luckily we have smooth roads here in Oregon.)If you don't ride up very many hills they there are certainly better choices, like the campy neutron for instance.


You should ride down near Salem, east and west of there is chipseal country. Oregon ain't no shangri-la for roads.

[alancw3]

being a big guy 6'4" st 220 lbs i love my ksyriums. over 15,000 bulletproof miles. i don't find them harsh at all. the only thing you have to be aware fo is riding in a strong cross wind. if there is a 25-35 mile an hour wind with gust to 40 you need to be aware the the bladed spokes will try to steer the bike. other than that absolutely love them.

that being said, on another forum several people have had great results with williams wheels both from a proformance and cost standpoint.

[palincss]

being a big guy 6'4" st 220 lbs i love my ksyriums. over 15,000 bulletproof miles. i don't find them harsh at all. the only thing you have to be aware fo is riding in a strong cross wind. if there is a 25-35 mile an hour wind with gust to 40 you need to be aware the the bladed spokes will try to steer the bike. other than that absolutely love them.


OK, that sounds a lot like a show-stopper to me. What is there about these wheels that is good, especially good enough to compensate for the cost (absurd compared to handbuilt wheels) and this crippling disability?

[witcombusa]

What will Ksyrium wheels do for me?


Lighten your wallet :rolleyes:

[rpm]

Once you get above $500, the best all-around wheels are HED, all of which of now have a wider rim. That rim makes your tires larger, and give a measure of comfort that is probably only matched by the Shimano tubeless wheels. Heds are superior in aerodynamics, weight, comfort, handling, durabilty (you can get the "Stallion" build if you're heavy) and customer support. The Ardennes at $995 is fabulous, but the $700 Kermesse is probably also very good.

For $400-$550, Shimano Ultegra wheels have a good reputation for smoothness and durability. I have a pair on my CDA and they are as comfortable as Open Pros and decidedly faster, and have given me no problems.

Actually, the best value in the Mavic line might be Askiums which can be had for little money, but are surprisingly light, comfortable, and durable, and can be trued and repaired easily.

[zap]

snipped

They were a VERY cost effective way to build a wheel.

Because of that, the OE prices were extremely low and they were very popular but they were NEVER a good wheel.




I have to agree.

I purchased the mtb version (second dumbest bike thingy I purchased) and within 200 miles had to modify the freehub with x bits. As I looked at the design I have to say, from a cost effective/manufacturing standpoint, it's a great design.

Fifty bucks is probably all it costs to build the set.

Sure you can ride them, but from a performance standpoint, the K's are worth...........fifty bucks.

[sspielman]

there are pretty big differences in the tubular and clincher versions....BUT...In general, the top of the line Ksyriums are a little more robust than a handbuilt wheel with 32 spokes...and feel slightly stiffer laterally. Additionally, while i have seen some variations in the results, they are also slightly more aerodynamic than a set of handbuilts with 28-32 spokes. So, I would estimate that they are slightly more robust and slightly more aerdynamic than a set of typical handbuilts...whether those advantages are worth the cost is the real subject up for debate...

[Pete Serotta]

Lots of good info here and lots of personal opinions. Do yourself a favor and try a few sets of wheels... (OPEN PRO, MAVIC K, DT, etx) and you decide what works best for you, your type of riding, and your terrain.

I have not seen any group agree on which wheels are best BUT then we do not agree on which saddle is best either. One of the problems is defining what "best" means :) Best for what :confused: .

If fact I can't agree on which red wine is best SO I keep trying all I can :beer:

[Ken Robb]

Lots of good info here and lots of personal opinions.
If fact I can't agree on which red wine is best SO I keep trying all I can :beer:

It's a dirty job but someone HAS to do it. Thanks Pete. :beer:

[sspielman]

One more thing....Ksyriums are pretty trouble free right out of the box....While people speak of 'handbuilts" in a generic sense, they are not created equally at all....Actually, good wheelbuilders are rather rare these days...and a poorly built set of handbuilts will be unreliable and not durable at all.

[djg]

OK, that sounds a lot like a show-stopper to me. What is there about these wheels that is good, especially good enough to compensate for the cost (absurd compared to handbuilt wheels) and this crippling disability?

Well, I've heard reports of breakage and don't know what sort of quality control numbers somebody could reliably provide, but I know several folks who have found them to be bombproof. My Ksyrium SSCs were my daily go-to wheels for three years and they never had a problem -- in fact, they never went out of true and seemed, really, good-as-new when I sold them (perhaps an error). I've never had a more trouble-free wheelset.

My second set developed a weird but large crack on a non-stressed part of the front hub shell of all places, and I returned them (maybe should have gone through Mavic for a repair).

I don't really know what the model Ksyrium experience is, but if it's the trouble-free, no-maintenance first version, and the wheels are light enough, then that's the appeal. Each year brings a new model so, apart from team deals, etc., etc., there's often some sort of clearance to take the sting out of the price issue. I think I paid about half of retail on the first set and less than that -- maybe about 450? -- on some Performance clearance on the second (which may explain why there was no dealer around to take care of the stupid hub shell problem).

[endosch2]

I bought my SLS on sales from Colorado cyclist in November or December for $650. You can mail order SL Premiums from Wiggle for $770 right now. SLS are even less.

[djg]

One more thing....Ksyriums are pretty trouble free right out of the box....While people speak of 'handbuilts" in a generic sense, they are not created equally at all....Actually, good wheelbuilders are rather rare these days...and a poorly built set of handbuilts will be unreliable and not durable at all.

Amen. I had a good local wrench I trust build my powertap wheel. There are individual wheelbuilders out there who really know what they are doing and can absolutely build a solid and dependable wheel and provide good value. But the world has many so-so wheelbuilders too, and no shortage of complete hacks. At their worst, handbuilts are really just things that look like bike wheels, waiting to be rebuilt.

[shinomaster]

You should ride down near Salem, east and west of there is chipseal country. Oregon ain't no shangri-la for roads.


Portland :) Trust me it's way better than Boston. :confused:

[97CSI]

i've had several version over the years on bikes i bought--all made the ride harsher than either record hubs w/velocity aerohead or campy eurus

which are 2 things i'd recommend over ksyriums
or campy neutron if you don't like the G3 spokes on the eurus

or give tubulars a try and throw some solid tubulars like vittoria pave--that would be a different feel for you. lots of good deals to be had this time of year

enjoy the search

jim+1 Have gone to all Campy for wheels due to the quality and ride. Neutron, Zonda, Eurus, etc., depending on how much you wish to spend.