Peacock or no Peacock (Needs to be addressed)

[Pete Serotta]

I post this note as a last try to bring things back to what we call "normal". There has been too much emotion and too many words between Viper, Girlie, e-richie. lazarus,etc.... The SEROTTA forum is not the Morality cop nor into psychoanalysis. It is not up to the moderators to read into what something "might" mean. (we will discuss below the user agreement , everyone on the forum agreed to)
__________________________________________________ ___________
For those who have not been aware of all the happenings, let me recap;

- At the Handmade bike show there was a wheel with a graphic depiction of a woman, a peacock, and I am told some sexual action (I did not see it)
- The wheel was displayed at the show, but not by SEROTTA
- The Moderators nor Serotta employees posted it or any discussions on the forum
- A female "ID" became upset by the posts. The moderators looked at it and eventually for "peace" locked the posts.
- A male and a female ID were the only ones that voiced a severe distaste. While it was not what I would have on my bike nor in my home, I have certainly seen worse statements of what is "tasteful". In no way did I assume that it affected a certain nationality nor gender negatively
- The ID VIPER was banned from the forum, these posts being the final act of that id. The person has continued to send current and past moderators emails that are far from business like. Let me be clear here - I and I alone did the banning. (If legal action is felt to be needed by VIPER, he should feel free to follow up against me and my actions.)
- Girlie, Tom Smith, Lazarus have posted notes and sent emails on the subject. To these ids (since that is not their real name) all I can suggest in to avoid those threads and maybe even the forum. See rules below
- As to the peacock, I do not see the sexual connotation in it but then I do not know why the e-richie id changed their avatar to a peacock in the middle of this emotional time, nor do I understand why a peacock was a worthy "topping" for the birthday cake picture BUT then I am not going to get into reading between the lines. Yes I do think these actions added to the emotional climate.

We are a very litigious society, and I have now been threatened by two parties with legal action. All I can say, is review the rules you agreed to when you activated your ID and if you still think there are legal grounds, please spell my name correctly when you give it to your lawyer ;)


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[Richard]

You have a tough job. Better you than me.

[SoCalSteve]

Again, and always...

Thank you Serotta Pete for doing a great (and pretty much thankless) job!

We all love you and toast a glass of red in your honor.

Steve

[Keith A]

- As to the peacock, I do not see the sexual connotation in it but then I do not know why the e-richie id changed their avatar to a peacock in the middle of this emotional time, nor do I understand why a peacock was a worthy "topping" for the birthday cake picture BUT then I am not going to get into reading between the lines. Yes I do think these actions added to the emotional climate.Pete -- Here is the problem with the continued references to a "peacock". The disc wheel that had the picture of the Guns N' Roses Appetite For Destruction rape scene was in the booth from Peacock Groove at the recent NAHBS. Therefore those that took offense to posting of this disc wheel feel that the references to a peacock are a direct/indirect reference to this objectionable image.

[gdw]

This forum is not:

For ‘lurkers’, ‘trolls’, ‘joes’, etc. who wish to harass, threaten, anger, flame, etc. forum members

"As to the peacock, I do not see the sexual connotation in it but then I do not know why the e-richie id changed their avatar to a peacock in the middle of this emotional time, nor do I understand why a peacock was a worthy "topping" for the birthday cake picture BUT then I am not going to get into reading between the lines. "

The peacock avator is blatant trolling and achieved its intended purpose so Mr Sachs is in violation of the agreement. Please have him remove the avator or join Viper in exile.

[Keith A]

Here are several postings as to why girlie felt that the use of the peacock is a problem...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=58201
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=659197&postcount=35
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=659198&postcount=36

[05Fierte TI]

As I am not that original but several things seem appropriate.


This is from Helifreak.com
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect

The members seem to stick to this very well and is a very large group. (I also like flying rc helicopters)

Rotarians have a 4 way test
Is it the truth
Is it fair to all concerned
Will it build goodwill and better friendships
Will it be beneficial to all concerned

Our hosts do not have incur the costs of hosting. Thank you to them and we need to do a better job of keeping it respectful and civil.

[djg]

Pete

I wonder whether you could amend your post to suggest that people who wish to attempt a civil suit against you for your moderation of this forum please spell your name incorrectly when providing it to counsel.

I have no dog in this race, except insofar as I really, really do NOT want Richard to get the boot. It would strike me as a darn shame if he were to leave at all. Wishing to fan no flames and maybe failing: if we suppose that a given image is offensive to many reasonable persons, does it follow that any reference to that image, however oblique, is also offensive?

Whatever one thinks or does not think of me or my electronic presence here, I hope that Pete's request for relative calm will prevail and I thank him for what seems to me his very positive contributions to this weird little e-community.

[jlwdm]

Can't people move on. Why, Keith A, the need to post links to some of the tired prior threads.

Jeff

[palincss]

Peacock? What peacock? Looks like a Columbus tubing logo to me. If people see disturbing references in that, I think that's a serious problem -- but I don't see why we're discussing it here, or why this should be so important.

[sspielman]

I would love to see the picture so that I can be offended.....and if there is some sexual harassment going on, I could use some of that too....

[csm]

I don't care who goes or who stays but everyone ought to be held to the same standard.
if someone is a framebuilder, watch maker, electrician, etc should he/she be allowed more leeway than others? I think the peacock references were deliberate. it certainly didn't appear to be the columbus bird (that's a dove isn't it? sort of ironic...)

[Keith A]

Can't people move on. Why, Keith A, the need to post links to some of the tired prior threads.

JeffJeff -- The reason for posting the links was that Pete wondered about the issue with the peacock and I was simply pointing out why (with her own words) Girlie has taken offense to the peacock. I was in no way trying to stir things up, just trying to inform.

[CNY rider]

I just assumed that e-R's peacock was a reference to NBC, since it's American Idol time.
Then I found out Idol isn't on NBC.
Then all this comes up and I wish I would just remain ignorant.

Really, we've got such a wonderful forum here, and really great folks that populate it.
Can't everyone just chill?

[BCS]

We are a very litigious society, and I have now been threatened by two parties with legal action. All I can say, is review the rules you agreed to when you activated your ID and if you still think there are legal grounds, please spell my name correctly when you give it to your lawyer ;)




Are you effin' serious?? Legal action for being banned from an internet bicycle forum or offended from an allegedly offensive picture on a bicycle wheel?!
Call Jackie Chiles.

[rphetteplace]

I was at NAHBS and saw the bike in question. Never put enough thought into it to get so stirred up. If this is the way these people behave in internet-not-real-life can you imagine how screwed up dramatic that real life must be for them? Good riddance.

ps. I did meet Erik a couple years ago in San Jose at NAHBS and found him to be humorous and engaging.

[Louis]

Pete, many, many, many thanks for the work you do patrolling the forum. Without your volunteer work I suspect that it would have been shut down long ago, and we would have been the poorer for it.

Societies have rules to try to keep things under control. Some folks make it their business to push the edges of that envelope. The rest of us react in different ways to those provocations.

We can't keep rehashing the same issues ad infinitum, otherwise we'd end up in a messy stew of recrimination. I think most folks around here think it's well past time to move on. Apparently others, on both sides of the Peacock Groove issue, still need Erik Noren and his art work to kick around. Perhaps they should ask themselves truly why they have glommed on to this issue and can't let go. The answers would be revealing.

Louis

[William]

I don't care who goes or who stays but everyone ought to be held to the same standard.
if someone is a framebuilder, watch maker, electrician, etc should he/she be allowed more leeway than others? I think the peacock references were deliberate. it certainly didn't appear to be the columbus bird (that's a dove isn't it? sort of ironic...)

Can't we all just get along???

I call em like I see em, and I have to agree that "e" was deliberately poking. Period. If you're going to ban one side, you have to ban the other. Same standard for everyone.



William

[csm]

I think mostly we all do get along.

[Len J]

This whole issue just needs to die already.

It's an internat board for gosh sakes...........IME, people that 1.) can't just render their opinion and let the rest go (i.e. have this great desire to be right) & 2.) can't take an opposing argument as anything other than personal & 3.) Have anger issues.....need to either not post in a public setting or get banned repeatedly.

OTOH, people that can't recognize what people & issues they just need to let go & ignore for their own peace of mind have to recognize that the annonimity of the board is such that someone will always be pushing their buttons.....intentionally, cleverly or not.....and they need to take responsibility for their own reactions.

Now, recognizing how much of a premium Pete gets paid to herd this group of lunatic cats, I can only add my thanks.

Now can we get back to talking politics....errr, I mean bikes. :cool:

Len

[Louis]

I think mostly we all do get along.

I disagree :p

[bzbvh5]

Pete - protect it because it is your property. The users are only guests, they should remember that, and always act accordingly.

Don't feel sorry for the offending user, my guess is that unless you can block the MAC address of an offenders computer the locked out user is already back with a different name.

[Ray]

Pete,

You have a thankless job.

But still, thanks!

-Ray

[Climb01742]

bringing suit against someone for what happens on a forum?

oh my (deity of your choice).

:crap:

what have we come to?

[mister]

http://ramblingrhodes.mu.nu/archives/internet-serious-business-cat.jpg

[Len J]

Lets make sure we put our energy in what is really important in life.

Len

[mister]

haha. that one is awesome.

[Ray]

Lets make sure we put our energy in what is really important in life.

Len
There's something badly badly wrong with just how frickin' funny that cartoon is.

-Ray

[Ozz]

There's something badly badly wrong with just how frickin' funny that cartoon is.

-Ray
+1

Hang in there Pete..... :beer:

[rwsaunders]

One of my other favorites.....

[sc53]

Yes, Pete, I had to LAUGH OUT LOUD when I read that Viper was threatening legal action! Good grief. He's always up in flames about something--too macho for his own good, poor guy. And the eRichie logo I thought was about NBC, for some unknown reason, but then I never get his arcane references anyway, they are solely for those "in the know." Probably right, he was trying to gall Girlie, just like he always tries to incite (not too hard to do) Viper too. He's just that kid in the back row throwing spitballs with a completely innocent blank look on his face when the teacher turns around. Always made the class laugh.

[Lifelover]

Yes, Pete, I had to LAUGH OUT LOUD when I read that Viper was threatening legal action! Good grief. He's always up in flames about something--too macho for his own good, poor guy. And the eRichie logo I thought was about NBC, for some unknown reason, but then I never get his arcane references anyway, they are solely for those "in the know." Probably right, he was trying to gall Girlie, just like he always tries to incite (not too hard to do) Viper too. He's just that kid in the back row throwing spitballs with a completely innocent blank look on his face when the teacher turns around. Always made the class laugh.


+1 across the board. Your description of Richard is dead on. I will add that while I think it is silly that she it her bother her, the NBC peacock was a developed in the "Lance outrage" thread across the hall. That thread was going on pretty much the same time that Girlie's thread here was posted.

Dick Sachs trolling is aimed solely at the really hungry fish. It seems crazy to try to discipline someone for something so obscure. I really enjoyed of some of Viper's post. If you made me choose I would keep him over Sachs. Just like his paint schemes, e-richy's writing lacks the original content that Viper could spit. However, Viper and Girlie really did bring it upon themselves. They should have ignored him or attempted to troll back.

[alancw3]

Again, and always...

Thank you Serotta Pete for doing a great (and pretty much thankless) job!

We all love you and toast a glass of red in your honor.

Steve

+1 for the most part we have a wonderful group of people here and we should all be very thankful to our host (ben serotta) and moderators for giving us this forum to use.

alan

[TAW]

+1 for the most part we have a wonderful group of people here and we should all be very thankful to our host (ben serotta) and moderators for giving us this forum to use.

alan

Well said, and thank you, moderators.

[gasman]

It's amazing how people get their knickers all twisted in a bunch. I understand sometimes having some heat but it gets beyond the pale sometimes.
Thank you to all the moderators for the good work that you do. I have learned a lot from this board about many things besides bicycles.

Richard is a really nice guy, at least when I've talked to him in person. I think he is trying to make an obscure jab to rill up some more emotion and he succeeded. The references should all be dropped just to help keep the peace.

Thanks Pete and Keith.

[flickwet]

In the market place of Ideas, some are the shop keepers, others salesman pedaling (sp) their wares, and sounds of the touts permeate the air, buy only what ideas you want you may choose to ignore the ones that don't appeal, but in the end it is the market itself that is the value, its only through the efforts of the shopkeeper that there are any ideas available at all

[slowgoing]

In the market place of Ideas, some are the shop keepers, others salesman pedaling (sp) their wares, and sounds of the touts permeate the air, buy only what ideas you want you may choose to ignore the ones that don't appeal, but in the end it is the market itself that is the value, its only through the efforts of the shopkeeper that there are any ideas available at all

Subtlety is overrated.

[palincss]

It's amazing how people get their knickers all twisted in a bunch. I understand sometimes having some heat but it gets beyond the pale sometimes.
Thank you to all the moderators for the good work that you do. I have learned a lot from this board about many things besides bicycles.


+1

Amen. Many thanks to the moderators for their hard work keeping this place a pleasant community.

And honestly, if your feelings are so hurt, so bruised that you can't get over the rage, give yourself a time-out and take a vacation.

[jhcakilmer]

Thanks to the moderators, they do a great job! This is a community, just like any other gathering, and sometimes individuals need to be "marginalized", for the sake of the whole.

IMO, there was a long history of spiteful instigation, that at some point had to end. On the other hand, this type of discussion medium does not really allow us to know the true character of those behind the user name.

[Smiley]

We are a very litigious society, and I have now been threatened by two parties with legal action. All I can say, is review the rules you agreed to when you activated your ID and if you still think there are legal grounds, please spell my name correctly when you give it to your lawyer ;)


.


Pete, My lawyers name is Jackie Childs and he'll be in touch with you cause anybody that represented Kramer and sued the tobacco company and won can surely sue you too. Let me see is that MaKeyon ... right :)

Pete, U'r Da Man for sure. Any chance we can apply for amnesty for Viper, I do miss him and what will we do when the Star Trek the movie re-make comes out :rolleyes: No review here worth while like Vipers

[Charles M]

My God...


What a load of Bull*****.




I play at another forum where legal action was mentioned when product failures and company troubles were mentioned... Interestingly, that company failed shortly after the products.




The last time we had this kind of "do you know how important my opinion is to you all" kind of thing a new universe spun off of this one...

It wound up being a pretty good thing and maybe it needs company.




Thanks for doing the job Pete.




Only the purest of garbage can manage to find the drain at the bottom of a public forum barrel... Threatening legal action is the about at the same level as the film that forms on the bottom of the cork.

[bostondrunk]

Out of interest......if Serotta owns the forum, why is it a legal issue for them to ban a user ID or IP address??

[girlie]

Not the proper venue for this. PETE

[Lifelover]

Not the proper venue...PETE

[northbend]

Yikes! I am so sorry Kim. I will miss your thoughtful posts and I hope you find justice and healing soon.

[BBB]

:) I post this note as a last try to bring things back to what we call "normal".

Is back to normal arguing about politics...???

[Pete Serotta]

this is done... Pete