View Full Version : LBS dilemma
So, I am getting a group to go on my used frame I got.
I found what I wanted (after much discussion and help from this forum) and the best price on the internet is much cheaper than retail, and no taxes to boot.
I have a LBS that I met, and would like them to build and fit the bike.
BUT... I would also like to support them. I am willing to pay a premium, call it 10 percent, on the group but not the full delta. AND that does not include the TAXES (I think tax free internet transactions are horrible frankly to the local stores - and governments - and despite being a beneficiary no and then would be happy to have them go away to level the playing fields for the local merchants).
So now I am in a dilemma. Should I ask the LBS what the group costs, pay hundreds of dollars more, or just come in with the group and frame and pay the labor rate and probably a hundred dollar tip on top of that?
I hate disappointing folks, but the markups and differences in exchange rates and taxes make this a big jump.
In fact, if I had to pay retail and taxes, I would get a lower group because of the extra cost.
And what is a generous price to pay for the building of the bike (separate from the fitting cost)
Btw, i have no relationship with any local shop as I am new to the market.
toaster
04-01-2009, 12:16 AM
I'd bring in the frame, the box with the group, the wheels on the frame, and all the other parts and be ready and willing to pay about $150 for assembly and be sure to purchase any other parts you will need to finish the build from the LBS.
Buying bar tape, cages, stem, saddle, tires, tubes are all bonus for the shop.
Also, not making your build seem like it's a priority over other builds in the queue is another way to show your support.
Louis
04-01-2009, 12:44 AM
I say build it up yourself. It's really not that difficult.
1) Use the money you save buying the group on-line to buy some tools.
2) Take your current bike completely apart (not the free-hub or free-wheel !!!) and reassemble it, cleaning and re-greasing as you go, replacing what needs to be replaced. Definitely change all the cables + housing and the chain.
3) Ride the bike to convince yourself that it's as good as before, if not better.
3) Using your new-found confidence build up the "new" bike.
Good Luck
Louis
dumbod
04-01-2009, 05:59 AM
I say build it up yourself. It's really not that difficult.
2) Take your current bike completely apart (not the free-hub or free-wheel !!!) and reassemble it, cleaning and re-greasing as you go, replacing what needs to be replaced. Definitely change all the cables + housing and the chain.
Good Luck
Louis
If it was me, I'd buy a cheap bike at a Goodwill store and take that bike apart. I'd hate to have an "extra" part or two on my main ride.
Peter P.
04-01-2009, 06:13 AM
Bring it to the shop. Pay whatever they ask without flinching.
Leaving a large tip does not support their bottom line because it'll go directly in the pockets of the assembler/mechanic, etc.
If it's on the bill, it helps the shop keep the doors open.
Many shops look at what you're doing, buying mail order and having the shop do the installation, as rude or an insult, and rightly so. Some respond by refusing to do the work or charging usurious rates for the labor, again, rightly so.
In the future, if you're gonna buy it mail order, install it yourself, or patronize your local shop.
There's also a practical reason for all this: If you buy the parts mail order and have the local shop do the installation, pretend there's an incompatibility with some parts which prevent things from fitting or working seamlessly. It becomes a pissing contest between the shop, the customer, and the mail order firm and because the shop is the last one holding the bag, they get stuck with the problem/blame. Some shops won't take your kind of work for that very reason (I don't want to hear how you KNOW all the parts will work...). If the shop orders the parts, then only them and no one else is responsible for things working.
I'm speaking as a former shop mechanic.
rwsaunders
04-01-2009, 06:47 AM
If it was me, I'd buy a cheap bike at a Goodwill store and take that bike apart. I'd hate to have an "extra" part or two on my main ride.
Don't be intimidated by the old "Honey I just put the kid's Christmas toy together and there are extra parts" stories. They are just rumors. :cool:
Everyone has their own set of ethics. Before I knew how to wrench, any work I asked my LBS to do also meant I bought the parts from them. Even full groups. As I became more proficient as a mechanic I did more of my own work and bought more of my parts mail order. I eventually got to where I took very little work to my lbs and only bought the occasional emergency parts from them and shoes (I don't buy shoes without trying them on!).
Now, I've gotten lazy about wrenching, have only a few bikes, and take one or two bikes into them each year for a full going over, cleaning, etc. They do a good job, if any parts are needed, I buy 'em from them, everyone goes away happy. I wouldn't take parts I bought on the internet and ask my LBS to install them (unless they were something really odd or rare that they couldn't get - I once had them build me a set of 650b wheels and they couldn't source the rims, so I had to buy them and bring 'em in).
That's just me, but I've never felt any qualms about this approach.
-Ray
Mikej
04-01-2009, 07:12 AM
And start learnin'
chuckred
04-01-2009, 07:52 AM
Labor is certainly one of them.
If you like and trust them, what's the harm in being honest -
Tell them you got a great deal on a used frame, you're trying to be frugal, and would like to pay them to build the bike.
In addition, you you would be glad to buy the parts from them if they can get you a decent price. Just a simple honest deal - what's the best price you can sell me these parts ______ for?
If they get upset, then the shop isn't worth dealing with, as far as I'm concerned.
They also know that over the long run, if they treat you right, they'll likely make more profit on "nickle and dime" things - tubes, tires, shop labor, cables, replacing broken parts that you need "right now", etc. than the one time bigger purchase. Not to mention the word of mouth advertising if you're a happy customer...
It took me 6 years of being a customer before I finally bought a new bike from my favorite LBS, but they certainly a) treated me right (even when I bought a bike on a team deal from someone else) and b) gave me a good deal when I told them what I wanted.
I agree with those who say "do it yourself" to a degree - but that means you have to have both the time and inclination to do that, and at this point in my life, I'd rather pay someone else than spend the time tinkering in the garage cursing at my clumsiness....
-dustin
04-01-2009, 08:07 AM
Peter P.'s response is dead on.
victoryfactory
04-01-2009, 08:30 AM
I had the same question once when I wanted to upgrade to 10spd DA
I got the on line price, I went to my LBS and told him that I would
rather do it through them if the price was decent. I did NOT quote him
the on line price, I just let him know that I was trying to decide between
the two options, and would he like to offer me a price.
We made a deal, and he installed the stuff
The price difference was not big, maybe 100 bucks or so.
And after that kind of purchase they will be happy to see you and help
you out in the future. That is the LBS advantage over online.
I think that any LBS capable of selling and installing high end stuff is
well aware of the on line pricing and will offer you a reasonable deal
if you ask and you get the follow up and pro installation too.
Having said that, I still check out sales on line for tires, clothing etc.
I guess I go both ways.
VF
johnnymossville
04-01-2009, 08:53 AM
First off I'd say support your LBS as much as you feel comfortable with. It's your money so you have to weigh the pros and cons of doing so. I love it that on a lazy Sunday afternoon after my ride I can hop in the car and drive 2 miles to my local shop for a new cleat, tire, cable or whatever else was bothering me or broke that day. That's worth something, a lot actually.
If you don't feel comfortable building up your bike, by all means give them the job with a smile. I think they'd appreciate the business whether you bought the groupset from them or not. No time like the present to start building a relationship with an LBS.
fourflys
04-01-2009, 09:10 AM
Just to echo what others have said...
I'd go to the LBS, explain what you're trying to do and see if they can come reasonably close (what you're comfortable with) and make your decision. I would never expect the LBS to price match the 'net, but they shouldn't be %30 higher either (%30 is just a number...). Make sure you tell them that you're going to have them assemble the bike as I'm sure they make some money on that....
jblande
04-01-2009, 09:14 AM
One thing to keep in mind: the reason internet companies can so strongly discount accessories, components, and clothing, while bike prices even on the net remain close to the same, is that the mark-up on bikes is significantly less than on these items.
In dealing with the two LBS stores in my area that I am acquainted with (new to Chicago), I sometimes feel like it is hard to maintain the sense of loyalty some people have expressed in this discussion. My impression here has often been that a bike shop is not that different from every other retail establishments I engage with: get rich by selling product. It just shines through in certain discussions, and then the pure love of bikes or riding begins to fade. That's fine, business as business, but that has to be a two-way street.
I was thinking: does anyone feel this way about their GM dealer?
there is no reason to be loyal to any GM dealer.
about bikes. call around and just explain the situation, bought a bike, bought a groupset that you would like them to install, after several quote you an exuberant price you'll break down and buy tools and do it yourself. have a shop correct any installation mistakes afterwards. As far as fitting the bike to you, your back to beginning on that one, expect a $100-$125 for that or whatever extra stems or seatposts they can sell ya. Then plan your next build, it will happen about a year later.............
bzbvh5
04-01-2009, 09:43 AM
I bought a brand new bike at the LBS and had them switch the SRAM group to Campy. Nothing agiainst SRAM, I just love Campy. Anyway, I paid the extra money for the group and the switch. I was only charged the difference between the price of the two groups. About 2 weeks later, I noticed the frame had more cosmetic problems than I could live with. I wasn't happy about the problems but the frame was still functional. They gave me another frame and made the switch again for free.
Try doing that over the internet. Here are some other things your internet bike store doesn't provide.
The bike shop I use gives to local charities and schools. It's a title sponsor on many of the local charity rides some of which are 70 miles away from the store. Free bike give away for raffel of bike for the MS150. They gave a $100 gift card for my childs school silent auction. Pays its employees to lead Saturday and Sunday rides.
Think about the true cost of not supporting your LBS.
bhungerford
04-01-2009, 10:14 AM
"Think about the true cost of not supporting your LBS."
more to it for most shops than just selling parts.
This comes up again, and again, and again, and I'm not sure I get it.
I think most of us, most of the time, are glad to pay a premium to deal with a good LBS. I don't always investigate the magnitude of the premium -- especially on smaller purchases -- and certainly, there are times when I know what it is and pay it gladly in any case. This calendar year, I've purchased a powertap (and the building of the pt into a wheel I already owned) from the LBS and various smaller dollar accessories. I've also bought a few used bits here and there and ordered some things from out-of-town.
It's easy to say "support your LBS" -- I like to support my LBS. What I've never seen is a good reason to tell anybody else to do so without regard to the particulars -- when, how much, for a person operating under what budget constraints, looking at what quality offerings from some particular LBS, able to do what for himself or herself? I've also never understood the "ethics" angle on this. I owe my LBS honesty and fair dealing whenever I deal with them. I do not owe them a share of my discretionary income or savings -- I'm not sure why anybody should be obligated to spend a certain amount on bike kit anywhere each year, let alone obligated to spend it in a particular spot.
SoCalSteve
04-01-2009, 11:53 AM
This comes up again, and again, and again, and I'm not sure I get it.
I think most of us, most of the time, are glad to pay a premium to deal with a good LBS. I don't always investigate the magnitude of the premium -- especially on smaller purchases -- and certainly, there are times when I know what it is and pay it gladly in any case. This calendar year, I've purchased a powertap (and the building of the pt into a wheel I already owned) from the LBS and various smaller dollar accessories. I've also bought a few used bits here and there and ordered some things from out-of-town.
It's easy to say "support your LBS" -- I like to support my LBS. What I've never seen is a good reason to tell anybody else to do so without regard to the particulars -- when, how much, for a person operating under what budget constraints, looking at what quality offerings from some particular LBS, able to do what for himself or herself? I've also never understood the "ethics" angle on this. I owe my LBS honesty and fair dealing whenever I deal with them. I do not owe them a share of my discretionary income or savings -- I'm not sure why anybody should be obligated to spend a certain amount on bike kit anywhere each year, let alone obligated to spend it in a particular spot.
My kind of thinking!
I gave up on local bike stores years ago...Dont know why, but I seem to know more about bicycles than most bike store employee's (and yes, I have many, many stories to prove it).
The final straw was when the bike store I frequented for many years was bought out by a much larger chain and then they doubled their labor rate to build bikes...
20 or so odd bike builds later, I dont ever miss taking my bike (or parts) to a LBS, paying them my hard earned $$$ and then getting the bike back with it being misadjusted, etc... (if my bike is misadjusted, then I want it to be my fault and no one else's)!
Buy some tools and a good book on bike building. Look on the Park Tool website (they have step by step instructions there)buy the parts where they are the cheapest and build it yourself!
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Steve
rphetteplace
04-01-2009, 12:44 PM
find a local forumite with some experience bring over a c-note and a case of good beer and make a friend.
merlinmurph
04-01-2009, 12:56 PM
I just went thru the same dilemma
I just upgraded my 11-year-old Merlin to Chorus 10-speed and had my LBS do it. Didn't even think about it. The owner is an excellent mechanic and very fair. Normally, I do all the work on my bikes, and have only asked him to do a few things for me that are out of my realm:
- repair Campy shifters (for 20 bucks!!!)
- a few wheel builds
- maybe one or two other esoteric things
That's it. Otherwise, I buy items myself, particulary parts that wear out - tires, chains, cassettes, etc. Do I feel guilty? Yeah, sometimes, but like most people, I have a limited amount of cash and need to decide where it is best spent.
I probably paid a 20% premium on internet prices for the upgrade, possibly even more. Oh well, it's done right, and more importantly - it's done. :) I've got so many projects going on right now..... Also, I think he had an issue finding a bracket for the front der (non-braze on) for a 1" tube.
Man, I don't think I would ever bring in parts I bought elsewhere and ask him to put them on, but that's just me.
Murph
Your local bike shop should be happy you are bringing your bike in to have them build rather than doing it yourself. Shops are businesses, not charities. If they can't compete on price, then compete on service. Make money where they have strengths.
Maybe they need pricing along the lines of $150 if you buy the parts from them, $300 if you bring your own?
If a shop doesn't want you to pay them for a service, business must be good for them so go somewhere else.
tuscanyswe
04-01-2009, 01:11 PM
I dont think you have a dilemma.
Id buy the group online get it to the shop and ask what they would want for the job if you dont think you can or are interested in doing it yourself.
If they charge you 120 or so for that its good business for them.
Now the ppl who go to a shop and testdrive a bike and talk about it for an hour and then go home and order it online, thats a different story!
With this said i still buy alot of stuff at my lbs. Prolly spend a 1000 since xmas on tools tires headsets and little pieces i need.
I consider myself to be a good customer and they do aswell. Dont have to pay full retail on everything you buy to support your lbs imo.
Louis
04-01-2009, 01:17 PM
If they can't compete on price, then compete on service. Make money where they have strengths.
Absolutely. I wish more folks would see it this way. I doubt an LBS would buy say, office equipment, from the most expensive supplier just to do them a favor.
You have to think of it as value added. When does the LBS add value? In one case when I needed a Thomson seatpost RIGHT NOW I was happy to pay the LBS markup. I paid for schedule. If I'm not in a rush I buy it elsewhere. For stuff I can't do very well (building wheels) I support my LBS and have them do it. For stuff that I can do (slap components on frames and adjust dérailleurs) I do it myself.
Louis
Thank you all.
This honestly was really helpful.
I try to make all the right decisions in life, and being new to bikes, I wanted to make sure that I was considering all the angles too.
And on the little things I wouldn't sweat it (unless a matter of principle), but the cost difference of a group is in the multiple hundreds, so that is a big decision - enough so I would probably drop down a level.
More importantly, I didn't want to negotiate with the LBS so I hated to go to them and ask what they would order and then sell it for, than just show up with it or not.
Thanks again,
chuckred
04-01-2009, 01:32 PM
My kind of thinking!
I gave up on local bike stores years ago...Dont know why, but I seem to know more about bicycles than most bike store employee's (and yes, I have many, many stories to prove it).
The final straw was when the bike store I frequented for many years was bought out by a much larger chain and then they doubled their labor rate to build bikes...
20 or so odd bike builds later, I dont ever miss taking my bike (or parts) to a LBS, paying them my hard earned $$$ and then getting the bike back with it being misadjusted, etc... (if my bike is misadjusted, then I want it to be my fault and no one else's)!
Buy some tools and a good book on bike building. Look on the Park Tool website (they have step by step instructions there)buy the parts where they are the cheapest and build it yourself!
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Steve
I'm talking about the kind where you show up on Friday afternoon and a cold brew finds its way into your hand, anytime you walk in with a problem, they throw the bike up on the stand and fix it, and if you do buy a bike from them, you never pay for labor on that bike again...
rugbysecondrow
04-01-2009, 01:36 PM
Your local bike shop should be happy you are bringing your bike in to have them build rather than doing it yourself. Shops are businesses, not charities. If they can't compete on price, then compete on service. Make money where they have strengths.
Maybe they need pricing along the lines of $150 if you buy the parts from them, $300 if you bring your own?
If a shop doesn't want you to pay them for a service, business must be good for them so go somewhere else.
I have made appointments for work to be done and requested that I watch them do the work so I can learn how. A good shop should have no issue with you doing this and I will gladly pay for that, and tip as well. I do try to perform my own work and I have started a collection of tools, but I will take the bike into the shop and have them put and take a headset off for instance.
I also agree, LBS are businesses and not charities, but I also am a fan of rewarding service regardless of what type of entity it is (HVAC guy, hardware store etc).
Cheers
rspecker
04-01-2009, 02:05 PM
I just upgraded old components on a 2001 Legend TI frame. I moved the old components to a Steelman cross frame that I had bought used years ago.
I called around to a variety of LBS that I've purchased from in the past (including where I bought the Serotta in the first place). I tried to get a decent deal. I felt the same way as the OP--I really wanted to purchase from a LBS and I was willing to pay a premium to do it. But, frankly, they weren't interested at anywhere near reasonable prices. I was getting quotes of $250 just for the "pro build" (for each bike).
Plus, the component prices were enormously higher than on the internet.
So I gave up. A riding buddy referred me to a local mechanic/racer that works mobile and out of his garage. He picked everything up from me at work, and did an absolutely awesome job on the builds. He went way, way out of his way to do some custom stuff because not everything I had in parts was just perfect. He is my new LBS. Supporting him is a good ethical thing to do as well.
My new view is to look for opportunities to support the LBS, but not to feel guilty when I don't buy from them. They really didn't try to work with me.
peanutgallery
04-01-2009, 02:07 PM
Managed an LBS for years:
A shop makes way more money off of a handful of tubes and a helmet sale than they will off of just about any amount of service (tune-ups included). Service is just that, service. I always reserved it for paying customers in order to build the relationship. Customers that brought in their on-line/mail order purchases got turned away...period. In the time that someone was paid to mess with it, figure out all the wrong items a customer purchased, several other customers may have walked away without purchasing something because the collective expertise and customer service was occupied.
By the time you pay a mechanic, keep up the tools, use the expertise, you make more off of a simple helmet purchase. Credit card swipe and you're done versus writing up the repair ticket, storing the bike, pulling it out, fumbling with the mess of parts, working on it, hanging it up, calling the customer and then hoping that everything works out and the customer comes back. If said customer is a bit of a jerk or skinflint about the whole thing, you're in for a treat. You will wish you just sold him a helmet.
Service builds relationships with paying customers not with the on-line purchase crowd. If you have the expertise, tools and ability...buy it all on-line and have a blast. If you don't, seems short-sighted to buy on-line. Higher end road sales (and up-grades) are in the thousands of dollars these days, why cheap out on putting it into play? Buy from the LBS if you don't have the mechanical aptitude to install. Simple and it will work out
snipped
AND that does not include the TAXES (I think tax free internet transactions are horrible frankly to the local stores - and governments - and despite being a beneficiary no and then would be happy to have them go away to level the playing fields for the local merchants).
Out of state businesses are not required to collect out of state sales tax. Too many taxing districts and more coming to keep track of it all.
It is your responsibility to pay sales tax on out of state purchases to your state.
Of course the only ones that do pay usually have the truck carrying their goods stopped and checked at in state weigh stations. Expect this to happen more often.
Ken Robb
04-01-2009, 02:46 PM
my favorite LBS is run as I would do it. Sales of bikes is a profit center, clothing and accessories is another and so is labor. They charge the same to build a bike or install parts wherever you bought them. OTOH, they won't touch junky bikes or parts because nobody can make them work well.
bigmonter
04-01-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm talking about the kind where you show up on Friday afternoon and a cold brew finds its way into your hand, anytime you walk in with a problem, they throw the bike up on the stand and fix it, and if you do buy a bike from them, you never pay for labor on that bike again...
A wise man once told me that Strippers ain't nice to us cuz they like us...it's because we pay their bills.
What I don't understand is why there is any discussion about loyalty. Business friendships, no matter how friendly, are just that, about business.
My LBS is great. Great guys who I have enjoyed Beer:30 with. Guys I have rode with, ate dinner with, and seen a movie with.
I have joined the LBS club, had the end of the summer BBQ at my place, and would recommend the shop to anyone as a first class place to get what you need.
I also have a wife, a Son who turns two in May, and a child due in August. And my loyalty belongs to them first.
That's whay I don't understand this whole idea of who should my loyalty got to.
My LBS?????
If I can get a new group on the net for $600 or $750 at the local bike shop why should I make my family lose $150 dollars by putting the needs of the LBS above my family.
I mean who deserves that $150 more, my wife and children or the guys at the local shop?
I mean when was the last time the local bike shop said "Hey Steve we bought this for $600 but we want to sell it to you for $450 because you are such a great guy." (and I am not talking about public clearance sales available to anyone, I am talking about doing it to you because it is you).
Um..they don't. Why, because they got a wife and kids and every $$ they sell it for less means less $$ for who they should be loyal to.
So why should I do the reverse and give them an extra $150 just because they are the LBS.
This idea that we should all pay a bit more to support a for profit enterprise that without our charitable donation may or may not have a viable business model makes no sense.
If the only way my LBS can survive is by me paying more than I have to, it is not surviving, merely delaying the inevitable, and my money can't stop that. In fact I only attach my self to a failing endeavor by throwing good money after bad.
Of course don't get me wrong. I agonize over my purchases. I try real hard, and waste more time than I should trying to figure out a way to give my LBS my money. I don't just look for the lowest $$ cost. But at the end of the day if the numbers don't add up my loyalty and my money belongs to my family.
Steven
bigmonter
04-01-2009, 03:00 PM
My kind of thinking!
I gave up on local bike stores years ago...Dont know why, but I seem to know more about bicycles than most bike store employee's (and yes, I have many, many stories to prove it).
The final straw was when the bike store I frequented for many years was bought out by a much larger chain and then they doubled their labor rate to build bikes...
20 or so odd bike builds later, I dont ever miss taking my bike (or parts) to a LBS, paying them my hard earned $$$ and then getting the bike back with it being misadjusted, etc... (if my bike is misadjusted, then I want it to be my fault and no one else's)!
Buy some tools and a good book on bike building. Look on the Park Tool website (they have step by step instructions there)buy the parts where they are the cheapest and build it yourself!
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Steve
So, since you have some free time for the next several weeks can I make an appointment for a certified SoCalSteve bike build?
:beer:
the other SoCalSteve
willy in pacifi
04-01-2009, 03:35 PM
(I think tax free internet transactions are horrible frankly to the local stores - and governments - and despite being a beneficiary no and then would be happy to have them go away to level the playing fields for the local merchants).
Believe it or not the only internet transactions that are not taxable ar those where the buyer lives in a state without a sales tax.
If anyone buy anything via the internet they are supposed to pay the sales/use tax to the state voluntarily. Very few do but that just means they are breaking the law the same as if they did not file their income taxes. The big difference is that the internet sales do not have an ID refering back to anyone.
I predict that one day there will be a way to track internet sales to a SS# and everyone will be forced to comply.
In California they have put a line on the state income tax form for folks to pay the tax.
willy in pacifica
goonster
04-01-2009, 03:46 PM
If I can get a new group on the net for $600 or $750 at the local bike shop why should I make my family lose $150 dollars by putting the needs of the LBS above my family.
I mean who deserves that $150 more, my wife and children or the guys at the local shop?
That's a false choice.
You don't "need" a new group. You don't "need" to ride at all. It sounds to me like your choice is not driven by the money you have, but by the group you want and what you think is a good price for it. If it was $750 on the net, would you still buy it?
Why not put the whole $600 in your kids' college fund?
It's not a question of loyalty. It's a question of whether it's worth something to you to have that LBS around (with which you appear to have a pretty close relationship). I'm not saying you should buy that group there, but surely you already buy some things there that you could get cheaper elsewhere.
That said, the notion that we should unquestioningly "pay whatever the shop asks without flinching*" is preposterous.
(* = I have done this in some cases)
jlwdm
04-01-2009, 03:53 PM
The state of Arizona came after me for buying a lot of furniture in North Carolina. Interest and penalties also. Many states are going after the bigger items - cost effective to recover the tax.
bigmonter: I guess you are not getting the service out of your bike shop that some others are getting. Every shop is different. I order a lot off the internet but I will always support as much as possible the shops that fix my bike in a few minutes when I have an emergency; inform me about new product or have product in stock that I need to try on to get the right size.
I value retail shops that provide me a service. On the other hand I went to my closest LBS now that I am here in Texas to get a bike maintenance book and was told bikes are getting to complicated and that I should never work on my own bike. Thus I drove just about 30 miles last night to another LBS (Richardson Bike Mart) that had a bike maintenance class for $25 for three hours with only three in the class. We did leave early since there were just the three of us. As we left we were encouraged to call the mechanic if we have any questions. Even though RBM is a long drive they will get some of my business.
Jeff
I enjoy the service that I receive from my LBS. I have purchased frames at retail from them as well as had them build frames with parts purchased elsewhere. Their lack of reluctance to do this motivates me to buy items like helmets, gels, socks, bar tape, tires, gloves.... from them. It all adds up. Not to mention bikes for my three growing children.
But when it comes to making four-figure purchases, I look out for number one. When I can buy a new group set or frame or carbon wheels for less than the LBS dealer cost, it's a no-brainer.
With respect to the earlier comment that local bike stores can't be responsible if a customer provides them with incompatible parts, this sounds like it is coming from the same person who wants to sell me the extended warranty at Best Buy for more than the item is worth. Retarded.
katematt
04-01-2009, 04:24 PM
find a local forumite with some experience bring over a c-note and a case of good beer and make a friend.
I get a 12 pack of imports for a tune up, so a case seems like a good deal for a build. Didn't pay for too much beer last summer and the fridge was stocked well.
bigmonter
04-01-2009, 06:47 PM
That's a false choice.
You don't "need" a new group. You don't "need" to ride at all. It sounds to me like your choice is not driven by the money you have, but by the group you want and what you think is a good price for it. If it was $750 on the net, would you still buy it?
Why not put the whole $600 in your kids' college fund?
It's not a question of loyalty. It's a question of whether it's worth something to you to have that LBS around (with which you appear to have a pretty close relationship). I'm not saying you should buy that group there, but surely you already buy some things there that you could get cheaper elsewhere.
That said, the notion that we should unquestioningly "pay whatever the shop asks without flinching*" is preposterous.
(* = I have done this in some cases)
Of course I don't need it. Never said I did. My only point is if I a going to spend it, I should spend it as wisely as possible.
I don't imagine anyone at the bike shop, as nice as they are, makes decisions on how to spend there money with me in mind.
My point in all this is to debunk the illusion of the need to be "loyal" with the guys at the shop like out of some sense of friendship. You can't run a business on friendship because friends don't make a profit on their friends
And your right I do buy things there, things I need now. And I have even bought things that I could get cheaper and faster from other places.
Why? Because the $5 or $10 I might save did not make a difference to me.
But when manufactures allow a mis-price in the market and sell to shops on the net sufficient such that the net shop can sell below a LBS cost or even cost + 10% am I supposed to support the Bike shop and pay cost + 30, 40, or even 50%. on a several hundred or several thousand dollar purchase?
I guess I am just wired to try to find a way to cut out the middle man.
Steven
bigmonter
04-01-2009, 06:55 PM
bigmonter: I guess you are not getting the service out of your bike shop that some others are getting. Every shop is different. I order a lot off the internet but I will always support as much as possible the shops that fix my bike in a few minutes when I have an emergency; inform me about new product or have product in stock that I need to try on to get the right size.
Jeff
When it comes to things I can't do for myself they provide a great service. Building a bike, fitting me on it, tune-ups, etc.
But I have always had the ability to inform myself of things I am interested in to the point that the assistance I need is minimal when it comes to figuring out what I want. This forum and others has made that pretty easy for me.
Steven
bigmonter
04-01-2009, 06:57 PM
I get a 12 pack of imports for a tune up, so a case seems like a good deal for a build. Didn't pay for too much beer last summer and the fridge was stocked well.
Are you in So Cal? :)
A nice thing to have on this board would be a section where one could find a local builder.
Steven
gemship
04-01-2009, 07:36 PM
Are you in So Cal? :)
A nice thing to have on this board would be a section where one could find a local builder.
Steven
The LBS is you're local builder :rolleyes: Now I won't say take my lead but I pretty much rebuilt my mtn. bike myself. For a cost of 328$ I purchased a Park ak-37 tool kit and the Park PCS-9 repair stand via Ebay. For 110$ I bought most of the parts I needed again on Ebay. I still needed pedals, cable and housing and brake pads which I bought from my LBS. The most expensive part was the Shimano Deore lx triple crankset with external bottom bracket for 70$ shipped. I did give the LBS. the opportunity to sell me that by simply asking if they could match the Ebay price which they honestly said they couldn't.In fact I called around for that and pedals, two of them were cool about it and the other two acted like they were on meds having dinner with the unibomber and blaming me for why the hobby they love so much won't pay the bills. Get the tools and use Google search or buy a bike maintenance book you'll be glad you did.
abqhudson
04-01-2009, 07:44 PM
My suggestion: find a local bicycle mechanic that has the tools and does work out of his home and pay him to do the work. No conflict - just a straight deal. Most towns of any size have someone like this. You may have to check around - local clubs etc to find a good one. I have and this has worked out great for me - much better than the kids at the LBS. YMMV.
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