Velocity rims - no eyelets

[saab2000]

Hi Kids,

As usual, I am considering my wheel dilemma. I have seen a set of Ambrosio F20 rims on E-bay I am thinking about for my tubular dreams. Any thoughts on these?

Also, I think about Velocity. They make an offset rear rim, but it has no eyelets. To my mind, this is not a good thing, but I also know that Velocity has a good reputation. Given that rear rims have a lot of tension, are there any issues with this lack of eyelets?

Anyone with experience with these rims? Or the Ambrosio F20s?

Thanks

[bulliedawg]

My Speed Dreams use Velocity rims, offset in the rear, and I've had no trouble with them after about 2,000 miles. They haven't even needed to be trued. Don't know if that's primarily due to builder or materials, or 50/50 of each.

[Kevan]

since 2001 w/o a single problem. Probably over 10k put on'm already. :cool:

[Too Tall]

THEPREP (forumite) commented on this a while back. He/It did not like the F20's brake surface and than built a set of Velocity's. I also run the Velocity Escape Tub rim and think it's a GREAT rim. I am using DA hubs so driveside tension is stout...no problems.

[oracle]

f-20s.

[saab2000]

Mr. Oracle,

What do you mean when you state so succinctly: "f-20s"? Is this meaning that you like them?

:confused:

[oracle]

yes, and sorry for the ambiguity; i love them to pieces. i have 2 pair, with a total of ca. 10k one one pair, 5k-ish on the other with no problems, just wheel ecstacy; they're always true, and constant as the north star.

oracle

[Dekonick]

I ride both OP's and Velocity rims (I just can't bring myself to spend more than 3-400 bucks on a set of wheels... at least not with a wife who doesnt ride. Hard enough to get her to let me keep the stable as it is...)

I love both - the Velocity rims have needed almost no care at all with more than 2k miles. I had em built up by a local (friend) who did some interesting things - he built em w/o spoke prep, had me put 100 miles on em, re-tensioned, trued, and spoke prep'd em after that 'shakedown' - so far TRUE - and I have a bad habit of hitting a few spots kinda hard (being a heavy rider with not so good roads)

I like em - and they come in just about any color you could want!

[Kevan]

any particular reason why your friend would do it that way? Seems excessive.

[Too Tall]

See? Oracle is da man.

Excessive???? You want excessive I'll give you excessive. A teammate brought me a very high end set of carbon wheels to fixup after a season of racing and two crashes. The wheels were a little tweaked so I applied my "twist resist" tool and twiddled...nada. No amt. of clamping would separate the nipples (easy bulldawgie) from spoke. So, I call the mfg. who says that they used a strong glue rather than the usual spoke prep. to assure a durable wheel. They suggested I cut out offending spokes and replace!

How's that for excessive?

[OldDog]

Velocity with offset rear, Record hub. 32 drilling. Maybe 2K on this set, not even a re-true since built.

[dgauthier]

I have a question about Velocity Rims . . . are the seams welded?

[Kevan]

as opposed to pinned or other.

[oracle]

i think they use duct tape at the seams.....

[Too Tall]

Nah, as far as I know Velocity rims are pinned and glued. BigMacissimo was not all that keen on these rims becuase other offerings were welded (preffered). No big whoop, experience with Velocity eg. where rim meets the road is proving they are worthy enough.

[oracle]

yo mr. tall,

YOU da man-...thanks again for the heads-up on dem tyres....dats a bomb deal.

oracle

[11.4]

As far as I've ever seen, all their rims are pinned and glued. You have to watch out for an occasional bad job and return the rim, but that's not often. The spoke tension holds the rim together, not the pinning/gluing, so there's no real need to worry.

They don't use eyelets, but eyelets are more of a way to deal with uniformly thin-walled tubing formed into rim profiles (which is part of the secret behind lighter-weight clincher rims). On those kinds of rims, you'd just pull the spoke through the metal, and you have to keep the two opposite sides of the tubing squashed and in contact with each other for adequate support. Don't worry about lack of eyelets on Velocity rims. The metal is typically thicker at the spoke hole. Most Velocity rims don't have a shape conducive to spoke washers (like on old-fashioned tubular rims), and a spoke washer that doesn't sit properly is much worse than none at all. I've tried numerous washers including the various oval ones from Sapim and never found ones that fit.

[Kevan]

Hi Kevan,

We're glad to hear you are enjoying the Aeroheads. Our rims are all pinned in a more elaborate set-up than the usual pin joining system. There is actually a smaller piece of rim extrusion that fits inside the rim at the seam. That is joined together along with the seam with a heat treatment making the seams very durable and strong.

I did take a look at the Serotta forum and was glad to see that most people liked our rims and wheels. Its always encouraging to get feedback like that. The O/C rim is one of our favorites. The design allows for a more even spoke tension on both sides of the wheel making it a little stronger and less likely for spokes to break.

Betsy
Velocity USA

[CalfeeFly]

I just had a tubular wheelset built with them. With Chris King hubs, 32 spokes and brass nipples they are a true 1550 grams. The spokes are Sapim Laser Spokes on all but the driveside and Sampim Race there.

I really like the rims. They are "old school" Italian quality. Before so many of the superlight wheels they were one of the favorites of the pros.

The Ital-Techno web site says this:

"Ultralite, super strong rim used by professional teams! The F20 is hard Durex anodized with a 13mm profile and Inox double stainless eyelets. Approx 340 grams/rim, 32 hole."

They have an great price of $41 at Ital-Techno.

I've had Velocity rims and I liked them. The head person at my LBS has raced in Europe and all over the US. He still heads a team. He is about as as precision oriented as you can imagine. His work is impeccable He will not stock anything in the store in parts that he would not ride. In rims he only builds Mavic, Fir and Ambrosio. He holds a very high opinion of the build quality of Ambrosio.
http://www.ital-tecno.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=34&cat=Rims+%2D+TUBULAR

[theprep]

Velocity rims have no eyelets but I would not worry about that. Use some marine grease on the nipple bed. I have clincher Aeroheads and tubular Escapes with a couple of thousand miles on each, zero problems.

Some wheel builders believe that a non-eyeletted rim is stronger than an eyeletted one. The rim makers need to drill a bigger hole to accept the eyelet. Makes sense to me.

Ambrosio Chrono F20 - I really wanted to like these rims but the front one (28 hole) I received had a defective brake surface, like it was accidently hit with a grinding wheel before being anodized. It really screwed up the braking. I couldn't find a 28 hole one any where in the country so I ordered the Velocity Escapes from OddsandEndos.

My brother built up a set of F20's this summer and his have been trouble free. He is about 190 lbs, Cat 3. They weighed about 360 grams each. The brake surface on these is fine.

[saab2000]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I would really like to get onto a set of tubulars for next year. The F20s seem really good, but I am not sure they are for me.

They are really quite light and that is nice, but they may be too light. I am not hard on equipment, but I am not a lightweight myself anymore. Even if I get myself in good condition, I won't be less than 165 lbs. Well, I will try to get lower. When I was really really really serious I was about 150 lbs.

Anyway,..........

I am afraid that the light rims will be both not stiff enough and not very durable. I have heard stories of the old GL-330s and GEL-280s which were very light, but also very fragile and a bit wimpy.

Ambrosio makes some rims which are about 80 grams heavier and frankly, those probably make more sense.

But this still does not solve the issue that NOBODY builds a tubular rim with offset spoke drilling! :crap:

I am inquiring at a secret source in Switzerland for some Mavic SSC Paris-Roubaix rims. I know that as recently as about 18 months ago they had some left. Nobody over there uses them anymore, and this place is a gold mine for older, obscure stuff. I was in their basement once (it is a European mail-order place) and my jaw dropped. They had hundreds of freewheels. I bought several choice sizes for my Grandis, which still uses freewheels. They also had odd sized C-Record seatposts by the dozen. And old TTT bars and, well, the list goes on and on. It was eyewatering.

I sent an e-mail there today and if they have any of the old Mavic SSC rims I will perhaps buy them all. :beer:

[saab2000]

One more thing, I have a set of Ambrosios tubulars on my Grandis. They are extremely comfortable. I got them in Switzerland from an old racing fanatic who horded old pro equipment. They were one of the top rims available in the late 80s or early 90s. They have a sticker on them, but the Ambrosio name is painted on with stencil, in bigger letters than normal, as though they needed to be seen better.

The are pretty cool anyway and the only negative is that they squeal like a stuck pig. That bike has Delta brakes on it and they squeal so bad with those wheels that I have taken to riding a set of old Mavic G-40 simply because they tame the wild boar Delta brake squeal.

Sorry for the digression. I am pleased for all the responses about the F20s and the Velocity rims.

[dgauthier]

I am afraid that the light rims will be both not stiff enough and not very durable.

With 36 spokes front and rear, you might find those rims build up stiffer, stronger and lighter than typical 400 g rims with a typical 32-28 spoke build. Ask your local wheelbuilder and see what he says.

[oldmill]

The full wheelsets from Velocity are worth a look too. I have about 4,000 miles on the Spartacus set and it's been perfect so far. I also have the Nuvians awaiting a new frame, and they look darn nice. Great value.

[93legendti]

My Speed Dreams use Velocity rims, offset in the rear, and I've had no trouble with them after about 2,000 miles. They haven't even needed to be trued. Don't know if that's primarily due to builder or materials, or 50/50 of each.


+1!

[Dekonick]

Back to the question of why Donald builds his wheels this way (first w.o spoke prep, then adding it later)

1) he doesn't do this for most builds. I asked him why and he said time. Its a thing he does for himself and for friends. His logic (the technique was taught to him by some other wheel wizard... I forgot to ask who) is that by first building the wheels w/o spoke prep and riding them for 100 or so miles, anything thats too loose will become obvious and it ends up helping the spokes settle and even tension. Once the rims and spokes have been stressed a little, he re-trues the wheel, and puts spoke prep on the tip of the spoke, and spins the wheel to get the prep down in the threads. I do not know if this is some secret - or if its wise - or if there are better ways to do it. I just know that I am over 190lbs and ride on some crummy roads. The wheels he built me have stayed true - so far.... well over 2k miles on them to date. The open pro's need to be trued several times a season (but both sets of OP's I have were probably machine built with human adjustment AND not on offset velocity areohead rims...)

:)

Keep riding!

Hey - any advice on a cheap set of tires that are QUIET on rollers??? Amrodillo's are loud - and I dont want to use michelin ironman's on a trainer...

BTW - since my brake scare I have only been riding the fixxie on da rollers... for those who care! :D

[Chris]

I'm going to jump in here late on the Velocity bandwagon. No less an authority than Peter Chisolm (genius mechanic) at Vecchios in Boulder has recommended these rims to me. He builds great wheels up with them all the time. The lack of eyelets actually seems to be a benefit in terms of some of the noises that come along with similar rims that have eyelets (read Mavic).

[saab2000]

Mr.Dgauthier,

I am my own local wheelbuilder. The last time I went to the local wheelbuilder I had to re-do the whole thing.......

On another note, I have found a source which still has 4 Mavic SSC Paris-Roubaix rims. There is one 28 hole rim and three 36 hole rims. I am VERY tempted to buy them all and build them up. In fact, I probably will.

If the jerk sees this, I would like to hear his comments on these rims. I know he thinks highly of them and I would be curious to hear from him on this issue. Also, if anyone else has opinions on this Sean Kelly rim. In fact, I guess that is all that needs to be said. If they are good enough for Sean Kelly, they are good enough for me......

[vaxn8r]

SAAB, are those the old blue-tinted ones?

I used a set of 36 spoke Mavic SSC Paris Roubaix sew-ups on my tandem for about 12 years before we trashed one of the rims by hitting a rock. If they can stand up to hard, out of saddle tandeming, team/bike weight about 350lbs, I think they should withstand anything you can dish out on your single and probably will last forever.

[11.4]

Especially if these are the true Paris Roubaix rims (dark anodized, white stick-on Mavic lettering, small SSC logo, separate Paris Roubaix label) then definitely get them or let me know. I'd definitely take any you didn't want and share the shipping with you. They are very heavy but very sturdy. They do fail by wearing sidewalls through -- for some reason the wall thickness isn't particularly thick and the braking surface is slightly curved so the center gets more wear and goes fairly quickly. I've had a couple pairs ridden in Europe on cobbles a lot and had the same experience. For that reason they still tend to sit around in shops in Europe -- pros like them for their sturdiness but recognize that they don't have a particularly long life in regular use. I'm surprised a pair lasted as long on a tandem for one poster above. I like them specifically for northern European riding where they do much better than Reflex's and am always looking for some for that purpose.

For US roads, I highly recommend the Velocity's. In particular, if you want a bombproof rim, I endorse the Velocity Deep V. Don't worry about the offset drilling -- it's interesting and presumably contributes a certain advantage, but a spoke tensiometer doesn't show THAT much difference in tension when they're used (I usually build on Chris King or White road hubs, or on Dura Ace or Phil Wood track hubs). (And of course there's not much reason for offset drillings on track hubs, that's not where I would use them -- no one needs to post that point.) All of the Velocity's are good rims and available in all kinds of colors if that matters. They build up well and have strong spoke holes that never pull through (a perennial problem with almost all Mavic rims).

[Climb01742]

seems like the Paris Roubaix rims would make great winter wheels, no?

[Too Tall]

Not at that price DOH! Very cool none-the-less.