Do you lift weights?

[Dekonick]

I am curious -

How many of us lift weights? I need to for work (at least I feel that I am better able to perform my job if I lift weights... and obviously management agrees as they provide a weight room for every firehouse as well as personal trainers)

I am a bit bigger because of this, and it doesn't help on hills...

I do think that I am in better overall shape tho...

Thoughts?

[toaster]

Lift for power. Power cleans with barbell, snatches with kettlebells, plyometrics, bodyweight training, sandbags, sledgehammer, and power ropes.

No need to lift for hypertrophy, just get strong and generate power from your core.

You do lose some cycling fitness by doing weights but I think that you can get strong on the bike and with the strength and power training and just cut down on lifting as you can increase time on the bike.

If you're doing single joint weight lifting movements I think you're missing the point.

[Ray]

A half hour kettlebell routine 2-3 times per week in the off-season, less when I'm riding a lot. Any extra bulk I'm carrying around isn't from THAT. But it strengthens a lot of the parts I use on the bike and only a few that I don't. I feel a lot better when I'm doing it than when I'm not.

-Ray

[Ti Designs]

If you're doing single joint weight lifting movements I think you're missing the point.


I must be missing the point...

My weight training is about isolating single large muscle groups within the range of motion used on the bike. This means single pivot movements using the machine to control the travel. There are two types of exersizes, long reps, low weights and low reps high weights. Without use of isolation or the machines to do so, there's no way the muscle fibers would see the kind of tension they see with the high weights - isolation of my glutes on the leg press I'm pushing 1100 pounds. The idea is to put the tension at which muscle fibers start to tear well outside of the range used on the bike. I have a fair amount of data from the riders that I coach that this works well. With high reps it's about the LT of an individual muscle group. Perhaps the best example is the vastus lateralis on the leg extension machine. Doing 100 reps at 35 pounds doesn't seem like much, but if the range of motion is controlled, the muscle is under tension all the time. After about 60 reps the muscle is fighting to stay below the LT, by the end of the set I can't feel the range of motion any more, just the burning, and yet the reps continue. As this is the first year I've done this type of work I have no feedback other than my own climbing, which given my lack of intensity work on the bike ain't doing so badly...

Yeh, there will be some weight gain with a weight training program. I don't even look at the scale until March 10th. I have a fair amount of weight to shed, yet on the training rides where others are on their good road bikes and I'm on my fixed gear tank, nobody is riding away from me in the hills (at least not going up them)

[bostondrunk]

During the winter I do. No specific program. I do occasionally lift heavy (for me), but not to get big, just a few heavy exercises like squats for strength.

[Peter P.]

I don't fit into any of the poll choices so I didn't vote.

I began lifting in the off-season last year but failed to carry it over into the cycling season. Therefore, any gains I made I felt did not benefit me once I began riding outdoors. There just wasn't enough energy to do it all.

This year I'm trying to carry on a program into the riding season.

I'm basically following a weight program from Weight Training For Cyclists, by Schmatz and Doyle. Besides the wealth of general knowledge in the book, the one idea I carried away from it is to alternate workouts i.e., core work 2x a week and legs 1x/week, then the following week I switch- core once and legs twice. This is during the off season. During the season I figure legs can only handle weights once a week with all the riding going on.

I alternated core workouts with leg workouts, and a smattering of upper body stuff, but it's all multiple joint exercises with dumbbells. A side benefit of the core exercises is they have all but eliminated the sciatic nerve pain I had been experiencing, reason enough to do them.

Now that the season has begun, I've reduced my core/upper body work to one set, twice a week, maybe 5 or 6 exercises. I do leg work once a week after a hard ride. I can muster about 3 sets of lunges after an interval ride, and they definitely make sure I've thoroughly wasted my legs. On days I can't ride, I plan on substituting sets of many sets of lunges for a workout.

I won't be able to report on my program's success until this season is over.

[dancinkozmo]

ive been lifting 3 times a week this last winter...going to ratchet up my cycling and drop the weights to 1 or 2 times a week as the weather improves. this will be the first year where im going to attempt to lift year round...i think its important to lift or do other activities to condition your non cycling muscles (btw i dont/rarely race, if i did i'd follow a completely different regimen with lots more riding )

[fiamme red]

I've been lifting consistently since January 2008, after a six-month hiatus. I do one or at most two exercises per workout. Always compound movements with free weights.

My workout yesterday was weighted dips:

1 set x 20 reps unweighted dips (bodyweight=168), as warm-up
1 x 8 with 70 lbs
2 x 4 with 100 lbs
1 x 4 with 130 lbs
4 x 4 with 140 lbs
1 x 5 with 125 lbs
1 x 15 unweighted, as cool-down

A short work-out, but an effective one. :)

Today it's weighted pull-ups and standing dumbbell presses.

[Charles M]

I'll tell you that focus on "cycling related movements" and especially sticking to fixed machines is exactly the opposite of what is used by the majority of the top athletes in the sport.

while machine based stregth work can be a portion of what some do, it's probably less than 5% of training.


The best guys are training with weights and or other equipement to specifically help stability and stress the body in ways that are exactly the opposite of "Cycling related"...


Trainers for everyone from LA on down are incorporating large movements, ball movements, Kettle's etc to make sure that all of the body pars that support the cycling specific movements are in top shape...


For non cycling focused (normal) people that ride for the majority of their fitness, doing non focused multi movement excercises are even more important...

The bulk of developed pain felt on and off the bike is the result of a lack of stability that effects everything from walking to sitting posture...

[zap]

Yes, free weights during winter. Upper body/core all year.

Not to get big, though it does happen some, but to gain some speed.

[fiamme red]

I must be missing the point...

My weight training is about isolating single large muscle groups within the range of motion used on the bike. This means single pivot movements using the machine to control the travel. There are two types of exersizes, long reps, low weights and low reps high weights. Without use of isolation or the machines to do so, there's no way the muscle fibers would see the kind of tension they see with the high weights - isolation of my glutes on the leg press I'm pushing 1100 pounds.I love the leg press machine. It's a very comfortable place to rest between sets of squats. :)

[jhcakilmer]

I love the leg press machine. It's a very comfortable place to rest between sets of squats. :)

Yeah, not crazy about the leg press machine......great confidence booster, but overall not very realistic, especially for cycling. When in real life are you ever braced like that.

Nothing beats squats, IMO......but make sure your doing them right, or they'll ruin you!!

I would already consider myself a "larger" guy, and I like strength training. I try not to go crazy, but it's fun to go heavy sometimes. My buddy and I decide to see what we could do on bench press a couple years ago, and during the off-season I got up to 315lbs in 6 months. It really took a lot of discipline, but was a fun goal.

Usually I limit the minimal reps to 8, in any specific exercise. I'm more concerned with increasing average power, not peak power, and making my muscles more fatigue resistance. More realistic for everyday life, IMO.

[don'TreadOnMe]

No weights, but since falling off the pushup-challenge wagon, I've rocked Mike Rowe's Prison Workout (dirty jobs guy).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VoSA-9Xd8

[Blue Jays]

I typically don't fall too far below at least 10 reps for each exercise.

[Clydesdale]

Lift once or twice a week in the winter using a High Intensity Training workout. 1 set of 10-15 different excercises to failure with slow controlled reps of 4-6 seconds each with no bouncing or momentum. Great cardio as well as strength training. Not popular with the pyramid and power clean crowd but I like that I get a lot of work done in a short time. Back in the college linebacker and wrestler days I did the endless sets for hours in the weightroom and I don't miss it at all. Wish I would have known about the High Intensity stuff back then.

In the summer I would rather be pedaling.

[000050]

I lift heavy weights because I enjoy it. Throughout my sporting career i have always lifted heavy 10-14 reps per set 3 sets per exercise- I do basic simple movements dead lifts-bench-squats etc. As the season progresses I up to reps and lower the rest interval-30 secs max between sets to add a muscular endurance component.

Granted I have a genetic predisposition for strength related activities.

[capybaras]

Why, yes I do. Thanks for noticing.

[jasond]

I basically just do the one hundred push up challenge. I completed up to the 6th week however the 6th week is fairly difficult so I'm going to start from the beginning again with the next hardest column.

I use to lift weights quite often but never saw results other than a minor amount of cutting never really gained any size. Tough to get motivated when you do not see results. I've actually seen more results from the push up challenge so far.

Jay

[Marcusaurelius]

I did a powerlifting routine for many years and I broke up the tedium by using periodic training (light, medium, heavy, rest). Although my strength was good, it didn't seem to help me get up the many hills that surround me.

I suspect I'll never be much of hill (mountain) climber and will just be content to hammer on the hills when the mood hits me.

[GBD]

Train on bike 5 days per week.
Rest days are Monday and Friday.
Spend 2 hours at the gym working on core for one hour and upper body for the second. Do not see a need to work on lower body as these are rest days.
Found that core work increases strength and comfort on bike.

[toaster]

I would never be in agreement with Ti Designs about weights although I think he knows a thing or two about pedal stroke.

Anyway, squats are best done as front squats, IMHO. There's less weight needed and stability demands engage the core much better than back squats. Sandbag front squats are even better.

The leg press machine is where alot of people only think they're strong. I've seen old men and small women push alot of weight and I don't see the translation of that on other exercises.

[Ken Robb]

I lift weight every time I lever my myself out of my recliner. :beer:

[Ti Designs]

The leg press machine is where alot of people only think they're strong. I've seen old men and small women push alot of weight and I don't see the translation of that on other exercises.


A couple of years ago I was working with this girl Aimee, she had an entry in her training log for pain - as in how much pain she was in after any given workout. After a hard ride or an interval set the number would often be 6 or 7 on a scale from 1 to 7. We talked about where she hurt, and we set up a weight training program. At first she was pushing 25 pounds per side and hurting the next day from it. Three months later she was pushing 135 pounds per side and not feeling it the next day. On the bike there was nothing she could do that would do the kind of damage she had been doing before. One of the local teams accused me of putting her on drugs 'cause she was no longer afraid of attacking the guys on hills.

It's not that being able to push 270 pounds on the leg press is going to translate to pushing with that kind of force on the bike - you're just not set up to do that. It's about the amount of tension the muscle fibers can withstand, and putting that limit well outside of what's going to happen on the bike. Lack of fatigue is a wonderful thing...

[Climb01742]

another reason to lift during the winter is variety. i think lifting strengths your body...and i know it helps my mind to be in a gym when i can't face the basement and the trainer one more time. :rolleyes:

[jscottyk]

For me training the Olympic lifts (the snatch and the clean & jerk) have done more to improve my position on the bike during the last two years than just about anything else. These two lifts plus a variety of associated skill transfer lifts have forced me to increase my thoracic mobility. This more than anything else I've done has allowed a dramatically improved position on the bike. A secondary benefit of increased core strength hasn't hurt either.

They are multi-muscle movements that require flexibility, agility, speed, as well as strength. The cross training world is re-focusing on these lifts as cornerstones of developing good athleticism. Kettlebells rock too!

[billrick]

A half hour kettlebell routine 2-3 times per week in the off-season, less when I'm riding a lot. Any extra bulk I'm carrying around isn't from THAT. But it strengthens a lot of the parts I use on the bike and only a few that I don't. I feel a lot better when I'm doing it than when I'm not.

-Ray

I'd be interested in hearing details of your kettlebell workout. What do you do? I've been using dumbells for some basic moves, and I'm about to go to a coach and move up to real kettlebells. I've seen some results from just mimicking some moves with the dumbells.

Thanks!

:)

[jscottyk]

Crossfit has some excellent KB demonstration video's (http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html#KBs).

I vary my KB workout's to some degree each time but they always includes swings, cleans, snatches, Turkish get-up's and arm bars.

[Climb01742]

kettlebells are awesome but form/technique are everything. it isn't a do-it-yourself activity. some instruction is hugely helpful...and safer.

[android]

I do a weekly workout with a trainer based on the method in this article. Heavy weights as slowly as possible, no resting for about 1 1/2 to 2 minutes each exercise. If you do it right, you're fried somewhere in that time zone. Once I cross the 2 minute threshold, the weight goes up. There's a big emphasis on core exercised too.

Been making steady increases for 18 months now and I am not getting huge, only stronger and more defined. I'll taper off and quit raising the weight if I think I'm getting "too big".

I'm cycling faster than I was 10 years ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/20/48hours/main584762.shtml

[Thor]

Lift once or twice a week in the winter using a High Intensity Training workout. 1 set of 10-15 different excercises to failure with slow controlled reps of 4-6 seconds each with no bouncing or momentum. Great cardio as well as strength training. Not popular with the pyramid and power clean crowd but I like that I get a lot of work done in a short time. Back in the college linebacker and wrestler days I did the endless sets for hours in the weightroom and I don't miss it at all. Wish I would have known about the High Intensity stuff back then.

In the summer I would rather be pedaling.

I trained with Mike Mentzer from 1991 to 1994. If you want any books or reading material, pm me. Mentzer was a lot of things and it was sad to see him go. Toaster makes a lot of sense above, too. I hate when people stop at a number, like I did 5 reps or 15...it's about failure, utter and complete with HIT. I added plyometrics, chin ups, specific hamstring weakpoint training, mid section work, leg presses and squats to this all winter and had lots of fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM

[Ray]

I'd be interested in hearing details of your kettlebell workout. What do you do? I've been using dumbells for some basic moves, and I'm about to go to a coach and move up to real kettlebells. I've seen some results from just mimicking some moves with the dumbells.

Thanks!

:)
I'm not even sure I can tell you the names of some of them. I do a lot of the most basic exercises, like two handed swings and one handed swings. I usually do about three sets of each, 10-15 reps per set (these things aren't about working to failure, so I wait til I start feeling some pain and then do a few more. I also do some cleans (up to my shoulder), and presses (above my head, like military presses) and snatches (starts as a swing, but ends up fully extended overhead). I occasionally play around with figure eights and Turkish get-ups, but I don't do them consistently enough to really benefit I don't think - they're just kind of reminders to respect the weight.

I have done kettlebells solo from day one - never had any instruction other than dvds and books. I think the key is to start with little enough weight that you don't hurt yourself and get a good dvd and concentrate on form. The kettlebell swing looks like the easiest thing in the world, but if you don't concentrate on developing good form early, you can really hurt yourself when you start upping the weight. I don't work with huge amounts of weight. I'll do my double armed swings with 45-55 pound bells, one armed swings with 35-45 pound bells. Anything over my head I stay with 35 or below (I still have a 26 lb bell from when I started out and I still use it sometimes). When I first get back into it each fall/winter, I start with light weights. If you start too heavy you won't believe how much you'll hurt over the next couple of days after your first workout.

I don't use these to get big, but they keep me strong in a lot of places, most of which help on the bike. And, as weight lifting goes, they're really sort of fun. I never enjoyed most lifting, but these are ok.

You can take it as far as you want - there are plenty of hardcore kettlebell guys who do all kinds of crazy workouts with them. I'm like the guy with a bench and a few freeweights in the basements. I do use them at least half the year, but just for basic stuff.

-Ray

[jscottyk]

it's about failure, utter and complete with HIT...

One thing to keep in mind with high intensity training that results in momentary muscular failure (sometimes referenced as MMF) is it leads to increased muscle size and weight. MMF is a key concept in body building.

On the other hand, the ideas in crossfit, Oly training, and kettlebell are generally about building strength and limiting additional bulk. This is particularly true with crossfit and kettlebell. The number of reps can vary in accordance with the training goal. Sometimes it's low (like 3 to 6) with very HEAVY weight (think deadlifts and squats) with the goal of training neuro-musular systems and muscle recruitment. Sometimes it high (like 20 to 50) with light weight to build endurance.

As they say different horses for different courses. For me the horse is flexibility, agility, speed, as well as strength. Over the years my workouts have gone further and further away from MMF. My muscle mass has decreased and I've kept (or increased) my strength.

[toaster]

If anyone is searching for good basic instruction I'd recommend Mike Mahler's Beginner Kettlebell Workshop DVD.

Personally, I like kettlebell cleans, clean and jerk, clean and press, and I love the snatch :) , one handed and double. I have 16kg's, 20kg's, 24kg's, 28kg's, and 32kg's.

I'll one hand snatch the 32kg (70lbs) and two hand the 24kg's. Alot of it is technique. Kettlebells can really intensify a workout.

[Ray]

If anyone is searching for good basic instruction I'd recommend Mike Mahler's Beginner Kettlebell Workshop DVD.

Personally, I like kettlebell cleans, clean and jerk, clean and press, and I love the snatch :) , one handed and double. I have 16kg's, 20kg's, 24kg's, 28kg's, and 32kg's.

I'll one hand snatch the 32kg (70lbs) and two hand the 24kg's. Alot of it is technique. Kettlebells can really intensify a workout.
Listen to him - much much MUCH more hardcore than I am. Man, a one armed snatch with 70lbs is not messing around.

-Ray

[Dekonick]

ok - what about medicine balls and cable pull systems? Anyone???

:)

[rugbysecondrow]

Kettlebells are awesome as is www.Crossfit.com. There is also a Crossfit Endurance that I did this off-season.

I have to say that I disagree with the use of the leg press as a regular part of a workout program nor do I think isolation exercises really provide a benefit that can't be had from a true multi-joint workout. Why not do something realistic that also works out your core like lunges, or even one legged squats? Multiple leg muscles, core, balance etc...all that is worked out with no weights or machines needed. How about Push presses, squat presses or even overhead squats. All of these can offer various level of explosion, core strength and balance in addition to working out a full cadre of muscles. You want to test your muscle threshold, do two minutes of 24" box jumps...that will test you.

For me, in my workouts, I try to replicate work that I will actually be doing in life and what my functional strength needs are, and there is no real circumstance that I will be locked in a fixed position with a need to press 1000 pounds with my leg...just not important. It ranks up there with guys who do bicep curls...not important. That is why I like kettlebell exercises. Not only will they make you feel wicked strong, but when your muscles know how to talk to and react to one another to perform an action, it is remarkable how much better you feel. I liken it to pull-ups. Most people are strong enough to do them, but their muscles are not trained to work together to perform the action, same with push-ups. The 100 push up challenge does not just make you stronger, but trains your body to talk. Anyway, my point is that these functional exercises are better than any isolated movement...my opinion of course.

For me, some basics that you can do anywhere are Pushups, pull-ups (bike past a play ground for these), air squats, Dips (push two chairs together), Lunges. You can even go Rocky style (this is really fun!!) and take your training rides or runs places where there are big rocks or bricks you can use for squats, shoulders presses etc.

Lastly, this is the same advice given regarding bikes, whatever workout program that gets you out and moving is the right one for you to start with.

Cheers

[rugbysecondrow]

ok - what about medicine balls and cable pull systems? Anyone???

:)

No cable pulls for me, but medicine balls are good. I work in wall ball shots (tossing the ball up in the air against a wall in high reps). Also, after a workout, I will finish up by lying flat on my back and using two hands to throw the ball in the air 100 times. If I am feeling saucy I will let the ball land on my abs so I contract them when the ball hits. Learned that when I boxed in college. There are a bunch of good ones. For me, it is just fun to mix things up.

Cheers

[Louis]

What about those "inflatable ball" core exercises?

Are they any good? (I'd think that anything if better than nothing, unless you hurt yourself by messing up your back.)

Any good sources of info on stuff to do using them?

I might be convinced to start something simple like that.

Louis

[Thor]

What about those "inflatable ball" core exercises?

Are they any good? (I'd think that anything if better than nothing, unless you hurt yourself by messing up your back.)

Any good sources of info on stuff to do using them?

I might be convinced to start something simple like that.

Louis


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ad_ENrflPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmuF7l0iuY&NR=1

[Louis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ad_ENrflPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmuF7l0iuY&NR=1

Hey, I don't need to do those, my body's already like that dude in the second link !!!!!!!!!!!!!

(In my dreams)

Thanks, that's neat.

Louis

[Clydesdale]

I trained with Mike Mentzer from 1991 to 1994. If you want any books or reading material, pm me. Mentzer was a lot of things and it was sad to see him go.

Thanks Thor - pm sent

[rugbysecondrow]

Thanks Thor - pm sent

Would be interested also, thanks!

Paul

[ahumblecycler]

I lift weights with my style falling between conditioning and BIG. I lift 70% my max for good number of reps and sets. I only use dumbbells, and I typically isolate arms (i.e., alternate to isolate). I went heavier this winter, ate a lot more protein, and needless to say, increased muscle mass. As a result, my cycling has vastly improved. My average speed has increased by 1.3 mph, less issues of bonking, and my sprint is better. On the down side, my clothing problem has increased. My previous big shoulders with small waist has become even wider shoulders and now larger legs but relatively the same small waist. And before members start flaming me, my complaint is finding clothing that fits properly.

[capybaras]

On the down side, my clothing problem has increased. My previous big shoulders with small waist has become even wider shoulders and now larger legs but relatively the same small waist. And before members start flaming me, my complaint is finding clothing that fits properly.

You need keirin cut jeans. :banana:

[Flat Out]

No weights, but since falling off the pushup-challenge wagon, I've rocked Mike Rowe's Prison Workout (dirty jobs guy).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VoSA-9Xd8

I'm actually gonna try that. Thanks for the link.

[rugbysecondrow]

I'm actually gonna try that. Thanks for the link.


Those burpees will smoke you...they really work. I use these at the end of a workout. If you thought you had anything left prior to starting them, you certainly won't afterward. The only problem I have is that I do get dizzy sometimes. Oh, and the vomiting, not really a joke, you might actually vomit.


Good Times

[stuckey]

I am not just into cycling I like strongman stuff a lot too.
I do swings, 15/15 VO2 snatches, Turkish Get ups, with kettlebells amongst other things. I also do suitcase deadlifts a few times a week along with overhead side presses with a loaded 7' Olympic weight bar. I swing sledge hammers carry rocks and so forth. Not to mention pull-ups, and a ton of grip related stuff like plate curls. My program is varied and all over the place to some but it has its purpose and I am not huge from it, 175lbs at six foot. You do not need to add weight or size to get strong as hell.

[fiamme red]

You do not need to add weight or size to get strong as hell.Here's an excellent blog post explaining the various components of strength:

http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2009/03/what-is-strength/

It's not all about muscle size, but neurological efficiency as well. So it's possible to get stronger without gaining any muscle.