Legal advice re: hit-and-run medical expenses

[VTCaraco]

My sister was bumped in a hit and run in Santa Rosa.
The driver was an uninsured illegal immigrant with no assets.
The abbreviated story goes as follows:
She creeps out onto the road from the sidewalk as the light changes (riding a town bike) and a driver in a pick-up truck runs the red light and clips her in a way that launches her and her bike. Off-duty police officer is the vehicle behind the truck, so he pulls over the driver as he speeds away. Folks gather around my sister to see if she's OK. She's shaken up, but thinks she's fine. Officer INSISTS that she goes to an emergency room, which she argues as a 20 something without insurance. Folks from the ambulance reiterate that she needs to be checked out and to not worry about the insurance. Same message is delivered when she arrives at the hospital and again protests (and is reluctant to sign ER-paperwork ~ other side of the country from family and involved in first medical to-do, so very shaken up and unsure of what to do).
Bumped and bruised, a few days pass and she receives notice from police officer that SHE was at fault for entering roadway as she did (not by crossing lane or in crossing lane on a bike ~ not sure of the details on this one). She goes back and forth with all parties involved ~ police officer, DA's office, hospital staff that assured her not to worry, billing department, etc. She called me a few weeks ago, about 2 weeks after the incident, to share that she got a letter from the DA's office informing her that the bills would be taken care of. Again, driver has no assets/insurance so it looks to her like the state is going to eat it (about $6k for an ambulance run, x-rays, confirmation that she's bruised, and some aspirin or such).
I hear from her last night and the DA's office has gone back and forth and it looks like she's now being stuck for the full tab.

Any advice?
She's been chatting with a friend's dad who is a lawyer in the area who thought he could help her under a "victims of violent crimes" clause as a hit-and-run situation. For a 20 something with student loans working in Americorp type jobs, she's devastated and feels like she's been put in a hole that she'll never be able to get out of.

I'd really appreciate any legal advice that folks could offer or any suggestions from anyone who's had a similar experience. She's taking it on the chin on this one and it doesn't really seem fair from most angles that I can see (admittedly from the older brother perspective).

[MattTuck]

This story has so many elements that are just infuriating. I won't get into them, but needless to say that it is a travesty that Americorp workers do not have medical insurance.

I am glad that she is [mostly] alright from a physical perspective. I imagine that a few inches further, and it could have been much worse.

If I were in her position, I would call the hospital and ambulance company and try to set up a payback schedule (maybe 100 bucks/month). And if they balk at that, you can ask them to write letters on her behalf to the DA.

[myette10]

does she live in a state with no fault auto insurance? Mass, NY, NJ, Washington, Oregon (there are a few others)... something in your post led me to believe she is not from CA...

If so, she may be able to collect from her auto carrier or the auto carrier from someone whom she is a house hold member with. If she was a Massachusetts resident and lived in a house with a family member that had a vehicle with the most basic car insurance I can tell you with 100% certainty that she would be covered under that vehicle's no fault policy. No atty needed, just report the claim.

[oldguy00]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is it common for typical folks (ie. working) in the US to -not- carry health insurance??
I would especially think someone who rides a bike on a regular basis would need it, given the cost of a trip to the ER...
I realize the insurance isn't very cheap, but one short stay in a US hospital can pretty much ruin someone financially, no?
Hope your sister is doing well.

[VTCaraco]

The payback option was my first suggestion at the beginning of this ordeal. That's still, of course, an option. The downside is it sure as heck doesn't take away the sense of despair. In the grand scheme $100 isn't the end of the world, but it takes a long time to knock it out and she's living on a shoestring.

Per the auto insurance piece, I can have her look into that.
She's from upstate NY, but I'm fairly certain she's shifted her residency (driver's license, car insurance and such) to CA. Still worth diving in and exploring that piece.

And the more global health insurance is indeed a pickle in the US. Next to war and the economy, I'd say it's the next biggest conversation on the politics page. It comes down to dollars and cents. If you're not in a job where the employer provides it, it's typically expensive enough that it's prohibitive for those that would have to pay out-of-pocket. Even if the gamble is as lopsided as it is, cash flow simply won't allow it in most cases.

[false_Aest]

I don't want to speak for someone else BUT as a recent graduate with $65k of debt from school I cannot afford insurance.

In my case student loans are $700/mo, then I have rent, food, utils and gas.

When I priced out insurance... decent emergency coverage and no DR visits, it was gonna run me $200+/mo.

Yeah, I'm scared as ***** when I ride my bike. I just pray for fatality instead of coma or paralysis.

T

[zap]

snipped

Again, driver has no assets/insurance so it looks to her like the state is going to eat it (about $6k for an ambulance run, x-rays, confirmation that she's bruised, and some aspirin or such).
I hear from her last night and the DA's office has gone back and forth and it looks like she's now being stuck for the full tab.



No legal advice but I would recommend that she get an itemized bill now.

I understand that individuals without insurance are charged quite a bit higher than the "norm". If she is indeed stuck with the bill, the negotiated reduction will ease the financial pain.

[goonster]

is it common for typical folks (ie. working) in the US to -not- carry health insurance?

Sadly, yes. Young folk can't afford it, and for older folks it is not affordable.

Retail costs are also shocking. $6k for an ambulance ride, x-rays and half an hour with a doctor. Imagine if she'd actually been hurt. I know those services are not free, but there needs to be fairness in pricing for "a la carte" services for the uninsured.

[daker13]

Sorry to hear this awful story.

If she's really in danger of getting stuck for $6k, I recommend she talk to the lawyer some more. The driver ran a red light and then tried to drive away after the accident - those are just a couple of the details a good lawyer should be able to negotiate with. It certainly sounds like the reason your sister got stuck with the bill is the hospital and the DA thought she was more likely to pay it than the driver. I know she probably doesn't want to spring for a lawyer, but it might save her a lot of money in the long run. Good luck to her -

[paulrad9]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is it common for typical folks (ie. working) in the US to -not- carry health insurance??

Should the question be the affordability of insurance or the affordability of medical care?

If doctors, hospitals, etc costs were more affordable, few would need insurance unless they had a catastrophic loss. Instead, we've become accustomed to having 'insurance' fund expenses that are not catastrophic, but are also predictable..why pay insurance for a scheduled annual checkups you know you'll have and for a cost that is pretty static?

[Ahneida Ride]

First, Let's evict illegal aliens. This is not the first time an
"Undocumented Worker", the new PC lingo, struck a US citizen.

I had a buddy who almost killed by an illegal alien,after returning from
the emergency room where he was treating for free illegal aliens.

[William]

First, Let's evict illegal aliens. This is not the first time an
"Undocumented Worker", the new PC lingo, struck a US citizen.

I had a buddy who almost killed by an illegal alien,after returning from
the emergency room where he was treating for free illegal aliens.

I like :rolleyes: how the term "Illegal alien" has been slowly changed to "Undocumented". Still illegal, just the names have been changed to protect...the person breaking the law. :crap:


Sorry for the rant. I'm glad that she wasn't hurt worse and that this situation works out in her favor.



William

[myette10]

If she is indeed stuck with the bill, the negotiated reduction will ease the financial pain.

This is true. They will accept less than the full amount of the bill.

Do check into the residency thing... I'm not as good with the NY no fault laws, but I believe it works more or less the same as Massachusetts, except NY has much higher limits available: $50k vs $8k. She lives in a house where someone has coverage and she should be good.

[goonster]

the term "Illegal alien" has been slowly changed to "Undocumented".

The distinction is not trivial.

There are people who overstay visas (or visa waivers), and are therefore "illegal" and deportable, but still have a paper trail, possibly with drivers license and insurance, etc.

Then there are the undocumented folks who walk over the border and are completely off the grid legally.

[Charles M]

No fault works for victims to help with damages caused to them. It's not meant to protect people at fault who have harmed themselves in the process.


Because she was at fault... (according to the officer / witness) she's on the hook for her own bills.

She's not required to follow advice, so can't blame the cop or the Para's that showed. And medical professionals will never be penalized for suggesting that someone be properly checked for injury...


She can negotiate down the bill, but it's on her.


The residency status of the driver has no effect what so ever as he was not at fault...



Not sayin it doesn't suck...

[myette10]

No fault works for victims to help with damages caused to them. It's not meant to protect people at fault who have harmed themselves in the process.

Your post is correct, with the exception of this part. No fault coverage is available regardless of fault provided the vehicle involved has the coverage or the person injured has some of their own. There are some exclusions... if you are running from the cops or drunk off your ass... but even if you're at fault, you can collect. Thus the name no fault.

[Peter P.]

I have to agree with PezTech's viewpoint. And I know it's too late, but your sister would probably have not been found at fault if she was riding legally in the road rather than entering the road from a sidewalk.

It's true the agencies may be trying to recover from your sister rather than the uninsured motorist most likely because of your sister's citizenship status-they'll be more able to assign liens on any assets or at least keep her on the hook for bills versus the undocumented individual.

An initial consultation with a lawyer is usually free. She should visit one as if the lawyer can assist her, it will likely cost her the lessor of her current bills and the legal fees.

[VTCaraco]

In concept (regarding the liability re: fault and such), I agree.
Unfortunately, it seems a bit more complicated.

I shared this post with my sister. Some of the responsibility comments seem to have hit her kind of hard as she sent me some clarifications (which I had been told before, but either forgot or neglected). In her words, here's the picture:

there is a block of street that has cobblestone in downtown SR. it has no bike lane, an island in the middle, two lanes heading north & two south. the only option to ride your bike is on the 6 or so inch gutter which is at a 60 degree angle (or so) down. the worst part is because of the island there is no extra room for people to even give you some extra space while you ride in that gutter. i rode up the sidewalk for this ONE block & was waiting at a red light. when i turned green, the pedestrian light also turned white, & i began to ride. i got broadsided (heading south) by a truck that was turning into the street i was crossing (had been going north and was turning west). knocked me off my bike.
the police report named my negligence - entering unsafely onto the highway - as the number one cause of the accident. bicycles are treated as vehicles, have to follow same laws, so i am being charged with this "entering unsafely" as if i had come out of a driveway and been hit. any pedestrian crossing the street could have entered at the same time as me & if they were hit it would be black and white but as soon as i pedal my bike i went under vehicle code.
i found one service (ca rural legal assistance) that didn't charge a fee to help me find a lawyer to speak to. i went to see him yesterday. he said that this guy is worth nothing so there's no point in going after him. can't get money when there's none to get. said my negligence is minor compared to his and we could easily make a case but he has no money so it's a waste of time. person at victim assistance said he was convicted of hit & run... i still don't know what that means for me. DA's office sent me a letter saying i was entitled to restitution. i mailed her my bills, paperwork. when i called to find out how long it would take she explained it could be 10 or 15 years. that first we have to get the court to order him to pay my bills, then we have to wait for him to get that money, so i don't even know for sure if he will pay my bills.

She also has requested a monthly payment. She's been told that the maximum term is 12 months. That makes it in excess of $500 per month, which is out of her range.

I reiterated the 'look into your auto insurance' advice.
Frankly, I'm not sure if/when she'll do this. She's super-down about it all.

I admit I'm seeing this through a big-brother lens, but it seems wrong to me.

If nothing else, take it as a significant lesson per the change in rules that apply when pedaling a bike. I'm imagining an innocent Starbucks stop where you pedal because it's that much easier ~ only to be considered a vehicle even if crossing a road.

[rcnute]

There was a post earlier asking about medical advice. The poster was correctly advised to consult a professional. In that case, a doctor. The same reasoning applies here.

[VTCaraco]

Please note that's she consulted with multiple lawyers.
One as the parent of a good friend the other through the agency mentioned in the clarification above.

As the title suggests, I was thinking/hoping that someone with experience (either another cyclist or a Serotta-loving lawyer) could give her a clear focus or direction.

[djg]

I don't want to speak for someone else BUT as a recent graduate with $65k of debt from school I cannot afford insurance.

In my case student loans are $700/mo, then I have rent, food, utils and gas.

When I priced out insurance... decent emergency coverage and no DR visits, it was gonna run me $200+/mo.

Yeah, I'm scared as ***** when I ride my bike. I just pray for fatality instead of coma or paralysis.

T

Did you look around for a high deductible version of that policy? It's possible that you'll find something much less expensive than a low deductible version of the same coverage. It's still no fun at all for somebody in your position to deal with something like an ER visit, but it does mean that if something goes very, very wrong, you'll not be facing catastrophic financial bills. Look carefully, and see what resources your state has to offer to help you avoid something that's expensive but worthless.

[djg]

Actually, this may sound crappy, but people on the board qualified to give your sister legal advice may be prohibited from doing so.

It seems that the service you mentioned suggested that the driver is damage proof (in the sense of being the stone from which one cannot get blood). I have no idea what the facts are, but that's a possibility for an uninsured driver. There is, at least, one other sort of question she can ask the legal service (or one of the other attorneys giving her advice); namely, under the law of that state, and practically, what the heck can she do about the bills, given that paying the billed amount, on the requested schedule, does not seem to be an option?

[markie]

Look into the car insurance.

I was hit by a car when I was on my bike and I had medical insurance. My auto insurance paid the bills and then recovered the money from the at fault drivers insurance. My policy appears to cover me for up to $20K.

FWIW

((here are some more details of my incident: http://bikecentric.blogspot.com/ ))

[Charles M]

Your post is correct, with the exception of this part. No fault coverage is available regardless of fault provided the vehicle involved has the coverage or the person injured has some of their own. There are some exclusions... if you are running from the cops or drunk off your ass... but even if you're at fault, you can collect. Thus the name no fault.

Gotcha and yep... I should have phrased it as likely to collect versus able to apply. ;)