Building a strong 20 hole wheel

[dannyg1]

I bought a White Industries H2 rear hub a while back in 20 hole because it was on sale and gorgeous. I have a single 20 hole Bontrager Race x lite rim (that's the front on the Bonty set) and I just bought a new pair of Sun Venus 20H eyeletted rims.

http://www.sun-ringle.com/contentpages/road/rims.php5

My questions are, if I want to build the strongest most reliable wheels out of these, which rim should I use for the rear , which spokes and in what pattern? On the spokes, I'd like to use silver aero's with brass nipples but the main criterion is building the strongest wheel I can out of these as 20 spokes does not so strong a wheel make, or so I've been l've been led to believe.

Thanks for the knowledge and the help.

[dvancleve]

I think the strongest 20H rear wheel you'll be able to build would just be a basic 2x all around using 14/15g butted spokes. If radial lacing is okay for the White hubs, you could do radial on the non-drive side to save a few grams (or 1x if you don't like radial, almost the same spoke length). The aero spokes are probably strong enough, if you mean something like Sapim CX Rays. They are just expensive. Brass nipples on the drive side are probably best, not sure they matter much on the lower tension non-drive side. I think the Venus is a pretty strong rim for its weight, probably similar to a Velocity Fusion but not as strong as a Deep V or something like that. If strength is your only real concern, working with the low spoke count, then you might want to go with a Deep V in back. I am doing a 24H wheelset for the same reason you are doing yours, got a nice 24H rear hub really cheap. I was thinking of a Deep V in back and Fusion in front, or an Aerohead in front and Fusion in back (a bit riskier perhaps), but I got a great deal on a pair of Venus' so I am trying them. I am doing 2x all around with 14/15g spokes, alloy nipples on the front and non-drive rear side, brass on the drive side.

Doug

[ergott]

Sapim CX Rays on the drive side. Lace them 1X with all the elbows on the outside of the flange. You have to make sure the spokes cross on the blade.

You can use CX Rays on the non drive side as well. Go 2X with them.

I've built many wheels this way and it's laterally stiffer than a 24 2X wheel with the same components. It's because of the wider bracing angle on the drive side.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/photos/429862035_ynEZa-XL.jpg

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/photos/429868513_VJnoE-XL.jpg

[dvancleve]

Interesting... Is the 1x lacing primarily to allow all heads in and have the spokes cross at the bladed section? I am doing a 24 hole rear wheel and if it doesn't cause a clearance issue with the cassette, I am going to try all heads in on the drive side and all heads out on the non-drive side. My hub is actually an NOS DT/Rolf but I"m not lacing it paired spoke. That means the crossing spokes are further apart so there will be more room where they overlap. I'm pretty sure it will work and it should help even out spoke tension and bracing angles a bit...

Doug

Sapim CX Rays on the drive side. Lace them 1X with all the elbows on the outside of the flange. You have to make sure the spokes cross on the blade.

You can use CX Rays on the non drive side as well. Go 2X with them.

I've built many wheels this way and it's laterally stiffer than a 24 2X wheel with the same components. It's because of the wider bracing angle on the drive side.

[RPS]

I just bought a new pair of Sun Venus 20H eyeletted rims.

http://www.sun-ringle.com/contentpages/road/rims.php5Nice looking rim. The Venus spec sheet shows it available in 24, 28, and 32 hole counts. How did you get the 20H? And are there other counts available?

[totally_fixxate]

Nice looking rim.
The Venus spec sheet shows it available in 24, 28, and 32 hole counts.
How did you get the 20H?
And are there other counts available?

OEM rims on ebay.
yes, 24 hole.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Rims-Venus-700C-24H-Road-Bike-Rims-Pair_W0QQitemZ270352708141QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36144 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Rims-Venus-700C-20H-Road-Bike-Rims-Pair_W0QQitemZ270359780238QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36144 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[dvancleve]

I got a nice polished silver pair of 24H Venus rims on eBay for just over $50 including shipping (a Best Offer listing). Pretty sweet deal, I thought. They are nice looking rims and I would think are about like a Velocity Fusion in strength.

OEM rims on ebay.
yes, 24 hole.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Rims-Venus-700C-24H-Road-Bike-Rims-Pair_W0QQitemZ270352708141QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36144 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Rims-Venus-700C-20H-Road-Bike-Rims-Pair_W0QQitemZ270359780238QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36144 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[RPS]

I got a nice polished silver pair of 24H Venus rims on eBay for just over $50 including shipping (a Best Offer listing). Pretty sweet deal, I thought. They are nice looking rims and I would think are about like a Velocity Fusion in strength.I thought Danny mentioned them being 20 hole in original post.

The listed weight is a little less than Velocity Fusion, so it'd be interesting to compare actual weights and relative strengths.

[dannyg1]

Nice looking rim. The Venus spec sheet shows it available in 24, 28, and 32 hole counts. How did you get the 20H? And are there other counts available?

Here's the link for the 20H auction (It's still active):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270359780238

[dannyg1]

Thanks Doug and Eric, for answering my question in such detail. Is there a real difference between the Sapim CX-ray's and the Wheelsmith equivalents? How does a novice come up with the correct spoke length? I tried the DTSwiss calculator but gave up because it was a bit too obscure in its parameters.

[Waldo]

Wouldn't a 32-hole rim be lighter than a 20-hole rim due to less aluminum and more holes? ;)

[dvancleve]

dannyg1, I like spocalc (a macro'ed up Excel spreadsheet, Google it). It has worked for me on about 50 wheel builds. I don't think there is anything consequentially different between the various semi-bladed spokes. CX Rays are "cooler", but not sure they're any better. One thing to watch out for though is you probably want ones that are 14g/2.0mm at the elbow. They fit better in the flanges and with low count you want to maximize the strength potential.

Doug

Thanks Doug and Eric, for answering my question in such detail. Is there a real difference between the Sapim CX-ray's and the Wheelsmith equivalents? How does a novice come up with the correct spoke length? I tried the DTSwiss calculator but gave up because it was a bit too obscure in its parameters.

[dvancleve]

I got my polished 24H set from them, got a Best Offer counter-offer of $40.

Doug

Here's the link for the 20H auction (It's still active):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270359780238