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I Want Sachs?
03-16-2009, 04:09 PM
Is this the real deal? Or replica of the legend?

http://www.renehersebicycles.com/650b%20Herse.htm

gdw
03-16-2009, 04:55 PM
Real deal, maybe..., Mike Kone- founder of the original Bicycle Classics, licensed the name from the Herse family and has Mark Nobilette make the frames for him. They are excellent custom bikes in the french tradition.

mpetry
03-16-2009, 05:27 PM
It is a totally legit and authorized continuation of a classic marque, in no way cheap knockoff or anything like that.

In the same way that a Caterham car is a "continuation" of the Lotus 7, these Rene Herse bikes continue the tradition with some modern improvements.

I have seen a couple and they are really, really fine. If you want a classic bike of this type, you understand what it is and the price does not scare you, by all means order one.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

mschol17
03-16-2009, 06:58 PM
That's a beautiful bicycle.

cody.wms
03-17-2009, 11:17 PM
FYI, they do a cheaper/less detailed version too. By that, I mean it doesnt have the handmade lugs, etc. I think the complete randonee bike is a great idea. Link: http://www.renehersebicycles.com/Randonneur%20bikes.htm

Sandy
03-18-2009, 03:08 AM
Is this the real deal? Or replica of the legend?

http://www.renehersebicycles.com/650b%20Herse.htm

I suggest that you get in touch with dbrk. He would be an excellent source.


Sandy

palincss
03-18-2009, 07:58 AM
Where are you located? Two of the new Rene Herse bicycles were exhibited at the Rene Herse booth at the Cirque last June in Leesburg VA. I'm confident they'll be back this year. This would give you plenty of opportunity to speak with Mike at length and also observe the bikes quite closely in person.

sspielman
03-18-2009, 10:42 AM
They seem to be nice bikes...but I can't fathom why anybody would pony up the money for one of those when he could get a "real deal" Alex Singer for less money...

fourflys
03-18-2009, 10:54 AM
Real deal, maybe..., Mike Kone- founder of the original Bicycle Classics, licensed the name from the Herse family and has Mark Nobilette make the frames for him. They are excellent custom bikes in the french tradition.

Ok then, here's my question...
If Mark Nobilette builds the frames, why not get a Nobilette for around half the price? The price for a Hearse frame is around $5.5k.... that does include handmade lugs, but are those worth that much? Or you can get a Nobilette built Rivendell custom for $3k that is fully lugged...
Nobilette Cycles (http://www.nobilettecycles.com/pricing.htm)

I'm not saying the bike isn't beautiful and very well might be worth it, but $5.5k is a lot to shell out for a legendary bike name that is not built by that legendary person...(Nobilette is a great builder btw)

Just my .02...

mschol17
03-18-2009, 11:05 AM
They seem to be nice bikes...but I can't fathom why anybody would pony up the money for one of those when he could get a "real deal" Alex Singer for less money...

This is much better made than a Singer. Singers are what they are, but there are a lot of builders that make better constructed bikes than them.

Ok then, here's my question...
If Mark Nobilette builds the frames, why not get a Nobilette for around half the price? The price for a Hearse frame is around $5.5k.... that does include handmade lugs, but are those worth that much? Or you can get a Nobilette built Rivendell custom for $3k that is fully lugged...
Nobilette Cycles (http://www.nobilettecycles.com/pricing.htm)

I'm not saying the bike isn't beautiful and very well might be worth it, but $5.5k is a lot to shell out for a legendary bike name that is not built by that legendary person...(Nobilette is a great builder btw)

Just my .02...

The Herses have lugs handmade from scratch. That must take a tremendous amount of time. Plus, I'm sure that every detail is done as elegantly as possible without regard for building efficiency.

fourflys
03-18-2009, 11:07 AM
The Herses have lugs handmade from scratch. That must take a tremendous amount of time. Plus, I'm sure that every detail is done as elegantly as possible without regard for building efficiency.

The lugs aside for a second, you can get a frame made by the same builder for $2k... are the lugs worth $3.5k? Again, it's the same builder, is the name/design worth $3.5k?

cpg
03-18-2009, 11:08 AM
Ok then, here's my question...
If Mark Nobilette builds the frames, why not get a Nobilette for around half the price? The price for a Hearse frame is around $5.5k.... that does include handmade lugs, but are those worth that much? Or you can get a Nobilette built Rivendell custom for $3k that is fully lugged...
Nobilette Cycles (http://www.nobilettecycles.com/pricing.htm)

I'm not saying the bike isn't beautiful and very well might be worth it, but $5.5k is a lot to shell out for a legendary bike name that is not built by that legendary person...(Nobilette is a great builder btw)

Just my .02...

I guess to play devil's advocate and counter with Rene Herse wasn't really building the bikes for most of the brand's existance. He was more like Ben Serotta. He built in the early years but grew the business and had people making the bikes while Rene ran the business. So it's not like back in the day one was getting a Rene Herse built by the man himself. Also if you want a Nobilette built Rivendell it's still a Rivendell and the design is very different than the current Rene Herse. You could get a Nobilette but it will be a Nobilette. Most likely a different design than the Rene Herse. Sure Mark could copy everything he does on a Rene Herse, put his name on it and sell it for less but as a contract builder that would be shortsighted and a quick way to lose a customer. Also, I know he just wouldn't do that. Now as to why anyone would pay whatever the current price is for a new Rene Herse I guess the short answer is because they want that bike and the only way to get one is to buy it.

cpg
03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
The lugs aside for a second, you can get a frame made by the same builder for $2k... are the lugs worth $3.5k? Again, it's the same builder, is the name/design worth $3.5k?

For some I'm sure it is and for others it isn't. Sort like is Super Record worth the extra loot when Centaur is less and functions the same? Value is up to the individual.

fourflys
03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
Now as to why anyone would pay whatever the current price is for a new Rene Herse I guess the short answer is because they want that bike and the only way to get one is to buy it.

to true and I applaud anyone who has the means to do it. As I said, I'm sure they are awesome beautiful bikes and well worth the price to some people. :)

goonster
03-18-2009, 11:15 AM
The lugs aside for a second, you can get a frame made by the same builder for $2k... are the lugs worth $3.5k? Again, it's the same builder, is the name/design worth $3.5k?

Herses are about a lot more than just the frame. The effort involved in designing and building a randonneur with this level of integration (internal wiring, perfect fender lines, etc.) is on a whole different level.

All considerations about heritage and branding aside, the current Herses definitely offer something special.

fiamme red
03-18-2009, 11:23 AM
There was some interesting discussion of the question on the CR list:

http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp?SearchString=%22Mike+Cone+RH+announcemen t%22&SearchPrefix=%40msgsubject&SortBy=MsgDate%5Ba%5D

http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp?SearchString=%22Mike+Kone%27s+rene+Herse +Announcement%22&SearchPrefix=%40msgsubject&SortBy=MsgDate%5Ba%5D

palincss
03-18-2009, 04:21 PM
Unfortunately, that discussion only goes up to 2007, before they actually began building. We've now had a couple of years with the company now, and have had a chance to see what they've actually done. I wonder what they say over there now.

I'm no CR member, but I've looked at a couple of them and have studied the photos of the new 650B bike on the web site. I have to say, I'm definitely impressed with what they're doing, and as far as I can tell they're keeping faith with original Herses. Whether one is worth five or six grand - that's another question, but I can definitely say I'd a lot sooner spend a theoretical six grand that I don't have on one of those than on an Ottrott or a Meivici. Considering how many Ottrotts there are out there, I think that's probably a minority position, but I'm perfectly comfortable with it.