PDA

View Full Version : Chased by a dog in semi-rural Georgia


JMerring
03-08-2009, 11:15 AM
Yesterday me and a couple friends were out for a ride in semi-rural Georgia. About 55 miles into the ride, we were chased by a big dog. My friend, who was pulling at the time, ended up in a ditch with a fractured collarbone, broken ribs and a host of other injuries. He is ok but will be off the bike for a while, will have a lump on his shoulder that can be surgically removed for cosmetic reasons but is not a medical condition per se, and his bike will need some work.

Question is - does anyone on the forum have experience with dog attacks on cyclists in Georgia? I know that Georgia generally favors dog owners over dog attack victims and want some insight into helping my friend get just recompense.

PM me if you have any insight to provide. Thanks.

regularguy412
03-08-2009, 11:27 AM
He should check to see if there is something similar to a 'vicious dog' law on the books in that county. Often, these laws are not well-known.

I say this because a riding buddy of mine had a similar incident last year. He was descending a hill at a good clip and was 'attacked' by a group of 3 pit bulldogs. I'm not sure the dogs were actually out to bite him, but they headed him off and he ended up T-boning one. He went down and broke both wrists.

Luckily, there is a vicious dog law on our books and it applied to this rural location, as it was not within any city limits. The owner was sent to court and was found in violation of the law. I'm not sure if the owner was made to pay any part of the medical or bike repair costs, but I know that I don't see those dogs, myself, at that location any more.

Mike in AR:beer:

Michael Maddox
03-08-2009, 12:39 PM
I'm from Georgia. There's no precedent that makes dog-owners any less liable than people lawfully using the road. A civil suit will take care of it pretty quickly.

Later, go back and shoot the d*mn dog.

JohnHemlock
03-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Isn't the term "semi-rural Georgia" redundant?

I rode the Inca Trail in Peru on a MTB, needless to say the local dogs were not used to cycle traffic and were quite aggro. I had a basket mounted up front that would hold 5 or 6 larger stones. There was something satisfying about braining mongrels with bits of pavers placed centuries earlier.

Better than trying to recover medical costs from the locals!

Sandy
03-08-2009, 12:47 PM
He should check to see if there is something similar to a 'vicious dog' law on the books in that county. Often, these laws are not well-known.

I say this because a riding buddy of mine had a similar incident last year. He was descending a hill at a good clip and was 'attacked' by a group of 3 pit bulldogs. I'm not sure the dogs were actually out to bite him, but they headed him off and he ended up T-boning one. He went down and broke both wrists.

Luckily, there is a vicious dog law on our books and it applied to this rural location, as it was not within any city limits. The owner was sent to court and was found in violation of the law. I'm not sure if the owner was made to pay any part of the medical or bike repair costs, but I know that I don't see those dogs, myself, at that location any more.



Mike in AR:beer:

I have no idea about laws in Georgia or anywhere else about vicious dogs, but doesn't a dog have to have a history of biting before it can be categorized as a vicious dog under a "vicious dog" law? Do they categorize a breed as vicious?

About your buddy- A group of 3 dogs is really a pack and takes on a pack mentality. Being chased/ "attacked" by 3 dogs would scare me. Being chased/ "attacked" by 3 pit bulls would genuinely really scare me, and I own one. I always stop if a dog chases me, and would probably stop if 3 pits chased me, but I would not be a happy camper in doing such.



Sandy

JMerring
03-08-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm from Georgia. There's no precedent that makes dog-owners any less liable than people lawfully using the road. A civil suit will take care of it pretty quickly.

Later, go back and shoot the d*mn dog.

See here (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/Georgia.html) re: Georgia's dog bit statute and the suggestion that Georgia favors dog owners over victims.

It is not the dog I want to shoot - it is the owner. If the owner had the dog on a leash or fenced in, my friend would be just fine and our 70 mile ride would have been one for the record books.

Sandy
03-08-2009, 12:51 PM
Yesterday me and a couple friends were out for a ride in semi-rural Georgia. About 55 miles into the ride, we were chased by a big dog. My friend, who was pulling at the time, ended up in a ditch with a fractured collarbone, broken ribs and a host of other injuries. He is ok but will be off the bike for a while, will have a lump on his shoulder that can be surgically removed for cosmetic reasons but is not a medical condition per se, and his bike will need some work.

Question is - does anyone on the forum have experience with dog attacks on cyclists in Georgia? I know that Georgia generally favors dog owners over dog attack victims and want some insight into helping my friend get just recompense.

PM me if you have any insight to provide. Thanks.

Very sorry to hear about your friend. that is quite a list of injuries. He must have been in a great deal of pain. Why would Georgia favor dog owners- because there are more dogs than cyclists in some areas? Doesn't make any sense if the dog causes an accident or bites someone.

Sandy

Sandy
03-08-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm from Georgia. There's no precedent that makes dog-owners any less liable than people lawfully using the road. A civil suit will take care of it pretty quickly.

Later, go back and shoot the d*mn dog.

Shoot the dog because of an irresponsible owner? Not the dog's fault- The owner's fault. Better to shoot the owner, but that would be murder...just like shooting the dog...but the point is that you have the gun pointed at the wrong animal....should be the owner....but then again, you don't go to jail for shooting the dog, but you would if you shot the owner........ Don't shoot either but go after the owner legally and let Animal Control know about the dog so the owner will perhaps become more responsible.


Sandy

Michael Maddox
03-08-2009, 02:59 PM
Shoot the dog because of an irresponsible owner? Not the dog's fault- The owner's fault. Better to shoot the owner, but that would be murder...just like shooting the dog...but the point is that you have the gun pointed at the wrong animal....should be the owner....but then again, you don't go to jail for shooting the dog, but you would if you shot the owner........ Don't shoot either but go after the owner legally and let Animal Control know about the dog so the owner will perhaps become more responsible.


Sandy
I expected you to chime in with something like this. Dogs are not people, and dogs with aggressive tendencies don't need rehabilitation, they need destruction. If the injured rider was bitten in any fashion, this isn't an accident with a running dog, it's an attack. Shoot the dog.

I'm a dog owner, too. One of my dogs became a fear biter and aggressively approached and snapped at a child's face, while I was there, trying to get to the dog to get her away from the child. It was both my mistake and the child's mistake. Still, I had the dog destroyed.

That is the appropriate response.

I am interested in seeing the dog bite law sources. As it is, the only dog bite cases I have dealt with were under local ordnance, not state law. In all cases, the dog owner was held liable for lack of control. One of these cases was a dog attack on a cyclist. I'd still consider a civil suit against the owner, in addition, I'd demand impound of the dog.

BryanE
03-08-2009, 03:14 PM
I would be surprised to see any of the locals,police etc.,coming to aid your plight.
Many small town folk look at cyclists as invaders from space.
Chances are you will hear something like,"well what the hell did ya ride in front of Jaspers yard when everybody knows them dogs don't take to strangers".

I live and ride in a small rural town and wish you the best in
finding some recourse for your injured friend.
I have been chased many times and both times I've actually taken the time to stop and talk to the owners I've been told to get the ???? off there property.
Good luck
LS

peanutgallery
03-08-2009, 03:20 PM
Live in Georgia for years and things like this are interesting to say the least. It seemed that there were hundreds of wild, rabid dogs running loose. Tis the style I guess.

Our group rides had a house we rode by once or twice per week and this big shepherd would chase us and almost take out the group every time. Owner was approached and the situation didn't go well. I think there was a pending lawsuit from one of the guys over a couple of the instances that clanked around for a while. Finally, one Saturday the dog achieved his mission and wiped out almost the whole group, dozen or so riders. Broken skin, bones, bikes, egos, etc. A couple guys got up, including the guy with the lawsuit, and banged on the door, the old red neck came out and they started yelling at each other...then the redneck keeled over. He went into cardiac arrest and mass mayhem broke out with battered cyclists, genetically challenged family members and so on. I turned on my cowardly cloaking mechanism and slunk away, didn't need any part of all that. From what I later heard, the old guy ended up dying at the hospital and another legal thing was started by the same cyclist that had a legal history with him - against the family or estate or something.

Don't remember what became of it, but for years afterwards this old lady that lived on the same road would come out and yell at us (brandishing a rake and in a housedress). "You killed Jethro!" or Cletus or Red Neckerson or whatever his name was. It was almost as bad as the dog but kind of funny, I would just about ride into the ditch laughing at her. The funniest part was seeing the expression of those that didn't know the story. That dog never bothered us again, though. Sorry to hear about your buddy

rwsaunders
03-08-2009, 05:37 PM
One incident and 'yer out in PA. You'll need to file a complaint with the police, and notify your insurer with the police report.

Your insurance agent will then contact the Owner and it'll go from there.

Make sure that you notify the police above all.

Sandy
03-08-2009, 08:18 PM
I expected you to chime in with something like this. Dogs are not people, and dogs with aggressive tendencies don't need rehabilitation, they need destruction. If the injured rider was bitten in any fashion, this isn't an accident with a running dog, it's an attack. Shoot the dog.

I'm a dog owner, too. One of my dogs became a fear biter and aggressively approached and snapped at a child's face, while I was there, trying to get to the dog to get her away from the child. It was both my mistake and the child's mistake. Still, I had the dog destroyed.

That is the appropriate response.

I am interested in seeing the dog bite law sources. As it is, the only dog bite cases I have dealt with were under local ordnance, not state law. In all cases, the dog owner was held liable for lack of control. One of these cases was a dog attack on a cyclist. I'd still consider a civil suit against the owner, in addition, I'd demand impound of the dog.

First, the OP did not mention that the dog bit anyone. I would think in most cases in which a bicycle accident occurs because of a dog, there is no bite involved at all. I don't agree with you that dogs with aggressive tendencies need to be destroyed. It depends on many factors. Certainly some aggressive dogs should never be in a home and should be euthanized, sanely, not shot.

What you consider a fear biter and what I consider a fear biter are two different dogs, for sure. When I used to walk dogs at the local shelter, I would help teach other volunteers how to walk dogs there. I didn't even have a dog. Certainly many, if not most, of the volunteers, knew more about dogs than I did. But I knew more than most about how to handle the shelter dogs. I told them there were two types of dogs that one would have to be careful with, one the fear biter, and one the dominant aggressive dog. Now that I know a little more about dogs, since I have one, and have tried to learn more about dogs, I would probably add the anxious reactive dog.

The chance of a fear biter doing what you said is very small, in my opinion. A fear biter is a dog that will normally stay back, stay in a corner or hide, and will not aggressively attack anyone, as the dog is simply too afraid to even come forward. A fear biter might bite you if you came too close and didn't give him or her enough space. I don't think a fear biter would continue to aggressively go after anyone. They would bite and try to communicate that you are too close and they are very very afraid. it would not be an attack. All my opinion of course.

in your case, dog actually approached the child and attacked. That is an entirely different dog in my opinion. Moving towards the child in an aggressive manner and actually snapping at the face is not a simple fear biter. Obviously very dangerous and an event that cannot be tolerated. You mentioned partial blame on the child and yourself. Not sure what you mean.

I will say that those who simply punish dogs, as opposed to some form of positive reinforcement training, actually increase the chance of that type of behavior, for several reasons. You stated that "....one of your dogs bcame a fear biter and aggressivel".....I wonder why the dog developed that way.

I do not agree with your blanket statement that dogs with aggressive tendencies should be destroyed and not rehabilitated. Some should be "destroyed" and some should not. None should be shot, period.


Sandy

trophyoftexas
03-08-2009, 08:36 PM
I would be surprised to see any of the locals,police etc.,coming to aid your plight.
Many small town folk look at cyclists as invaders from space.
Chances are you will hear something like,"well what the hell did ya ride in front of Jaspers yard when everybody knows them dogs don't take to strangers".

I live and ride in a small rural town and wish you the best in
finding some recourse for your injured friend.
I have been chased many times and both times I've actually taken the time to stop and talk to the owners I've been told to get the ???? off there property.
Good luck
LS

About all I can say to your post is "DITTO" here in Texas! I've had to alter sooooo many of our routes because of dogs that I can't count them all....and at 61 I'm just getting tired of trying to outrun the sob's! NO help from owners, EVER, and no help from the law, EVER! I've crashed because of them and been told by the law that unless they actually bite me that they can do NOTHING! This is one of the reasons that I spend 25-30 days riding in and around Fredericksburg....LOTS of cattle, goats, sheep....and NO dogs! Know why?....cause the livestock owners will NOT tolerate it....loose dog=dead dog....and NO ONE says a word about it! I'm sorry, I have a dog, my sons have dogs and I enjoy my neighbors dogs but loose dogs I have NO sympathy for....I won't go so far as to cheer a dead dog in the road but I have no sad feelings for them either....and, I know, it's not the dogs fault it's the owners and you are correct but around these parts Bubba's dogs can do whatever the hell they want! One of my best riding companions recently retired from riding at age 89 partly because he never fully recovered from the broken pelvis he suffered at age 85 when a stinking little 6" tall crossbreed somethingoranother ran under his wheel and put him down on the curb!

Kines
03-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Ooohh, I just can't help to put in my 2c since I truly DISPISE dogs.

Dang, I hate dogs.

After a long ride evading dog attacks, the icing on the cake is to come home to a pile of dog crap in my yard.

I don't think you should go back and shoot it, either, but DAMMIT if a dog gets past the pepper spray and attacks me (of course they have come close many, many times) I will do everything in my power to tear its throat out and feed it to it. And I would feel no remorse. It's a friggin' dog.

I think Will agrees: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2s8x5XhCGA

No I don't want to be creul or have it suffer. Tracheal removeal (with occlusion) would be really quick.

My biggest concern would be the owner coming after me, especially in rural NC, or semi-rural GA for that matter.

One of my most glorious moments on a bike (and for perspective, I've even been on the podium a few times, which doesn't even come close) was the time I made a direct hit with my pepper spray in the eyes of a chasing pit bull. The owner actually witnessed it as he was pulling away from his trailer house in his vintage truck, and I thought I was screwed. But he collected his writhing beast, never looked up at me, and seemed to even be scolding the thing for its ill behaviour.

And through the magic of Google Street View, I can even show you the scene of the crime!

OK I'm done.

For now.

KN

regularguy412
03-08-2009, 09:04 PM
I have no idea about laws in Georgia or anywhere else about vicious dogs, but doesn't a dog have to have a history of biting before it can be categorized as a vicious dog under a "vicious dog" law? Do they categorize a breed as vicious?

About your buddy- A group of 3 dogs is really a pack and takes on a pack mentality. Being chased/ "attacked" by 3 dogs would scare me. Being chased/ "attacked" by 3 pit bulls would genuinely really scare me, and I own one. I always stop if a dog chases me, and would probably stop if 3 pits chased me, but I would not be a happy camper in doing such.



Sandy

Well, I have to say I wasn't present at the event. However when I went to my buddy's place of business, I'll have to say it was pretty difficult for him to conduct business with both his hands/ forearms in casts.

I'd say there was not a lot of question about the liability of the owner, since the event took place right in front of the owner's house.

The problem is/was that the owner never kept the dogs out of the road; they were allowed to run free. The issue was exacerbated by the fact that the cyclist was descending the hill at speed, not climbing it. The way I understand it, the whole incident took place in a very short time. The cyclist couldn't stop or avoid the dogs.

I think the law is intended to protect any person walking, running or riding on a public road -- the idea being that pedestrians, cyclists and motorists should be able to move freely about without having fear of being attacked. I don't think there is any need for the attacking animal in question to have any 'history' associated with it.

Mike in AR:beer:

Dekonick
03-08-2009, 09:27 PM
Georgia has a one strike rule - dog bites 1x... ok. Second time it is put to sleep.

JohnHemlock
03-08-2009, 10:06 PM
Georgia has a one strike rule - dog bites 1x... ok. Second time it is put to sleep.

So I guess that is more like a two-strike rule?

RPS
03-08-2009, 10:38 PM
Shoot the dog because of an irresponsible owner? Not the dog's fault- The owner's fault. Better to shoot the owner, but that would be murder...just like shooting the dog...but the point is that you have the gun pointed at the wrong animal....should be the owner....but then again, you don't go to jail for shooting the dog, but you would if you shot the owner........ Don't shoot either but go after the owner legally and let Animal Control know about the dog so the owner will perhaps become more responsible.


SandySomething has to be done about the owners because shooting the dog will just lead to a replacement. Having said that; present laws are next to useless as we can see here that dogs continue to harass cyclists. Having an owner pay for medical expenses and other damages is not a solution IMHO.

Brian Smith
03-08-2009, 11:15 PM
I understand the anger and frustration here.
I've been chased/threatened by dogs while on my bike more than I like, and I rode in semi-rural and rural georgia a fair amount for half a dozen years. It probably seems ludicrous to said dog owner to keep their animal "confined" by chain, fence, or other structure all of the time when the animal's only likely confrontation with humans will be the rare person on a bicycle. Often those people have no sympathy for the outraged person in (usually) funny clothes and shoes they have trouble walking on. Personally, I often thought that it would just be a fruitless waste of effort to try to impress upon that animal's owner a new manner of keeping that animal, and just wanted to remove this frustrated desire from my riding.

Here's a coping strategy that I have yet to see fail:
When you think that you can't simply expediently get past the threatening animal, dismount, keep the bike between yourself and the animal as a shield, and vocalize toward it. With a group, the problem is compounded by the target size for the animal. Perhaps agree to walk that animal's range rather than ride through it. This also is a workable strategy when some members of the group are terrified and others feel comfortable or at least less at risk. It's better, I think, to be inconvenienced than to have to repair damaged bodies, bicycles, or to search for recompense.

Samster
03-08-2009, 11:34 PM
fellow forumnite Joel and i used to get chased during rides in iowa back in college.

say what you want about dogs and their owners, but we were in fine shape back in those days. the dogs contributed. however, i hate country rides partly because i hate being chased by dogs.

i hate darting squirrels too.

Sandy
03-09-2009, 12:45 AM
Something has to be done about the owners because shooting the dog will just lead to a replacement. Having said that; present laws are next to useless as we can see here that dogs continue to harass cyclists. Having an owner pay for medical expenses and other damages is not a solution IMHO.

Your replacement theory makes a great deal of sense. Why wouldn't making the owner pay medical expenses and other damages be a partial solution. Take money out of their wallets and they sill be more careful next time, I would assume.

Sandy

Sandy
03-09-2009, 12:54 AM
I understand the anger and frustration here.
I've been chased/threatened by dogs while on my bike more than I like, and I rode in semi-rural and rural georgia a fair amount for half a dozen years. It probably seems ludicrous to said dog owner to keep their animal "confined" by chain, fence, or other structure all of the time when the animal's only likely confrontation with humans will be the rare person on a bicycle. Often those people have no sympathy for the outraged person in (usually) funny clothes and shoes they have trouble walking on. Personally, I often thought that it would just be a fruitless waste of effort to try to impress upon that animal's owner a new manner of keeping that animal, and just wanted to remove this frustrated desire from my riding.

Here's a coping strategy that I have yet to see fail:
When you think that you can't simply expediently get past the threatening animal, dismount, keep the bike between yourself and the animal as a shield, and vocalize toward it. With a group, the problem is compounded by the target size for the animal. Perhaps agree to walk that animal's range rather than ride through it. This also is a workable strategy when some members of the group are terrified and others feel comfortable or at least less at risk. It's better, I think, to be inconvenienced than to have to repair damaged bodies, bicycles, or to search for recompense.

Wonderful coping strategy. I especially like your novel approach to group rides. Many dogs are just in it for the chase. If you walk the bikes through the area, then those more afraid of the dog could be insulated from the dog by those less afraid, more relaxed, and more experienced in handling the dog. There will be no bikes accidents, single or mutiple. Then one can focus on the dog. I would think in most instances, the hostility and aggressiveness of the dog would be lowered dramatically, if not disappearing entirely.

Dismounting, placing the bike between you and the dog and vocalizing/communicating with the dog sounds ideal if you are by yourself.

Interestingly, your coping mechanism does not involve any overly aggressive actions on your part. Just as interesting, is that your mechanism has always worked for you.

Praise for Brian!!!


Sandy

Sandy
03-09-2009, 12:58 AM
I actually have a coping mechanism even better than yours. I always ride with another cyclist. If a dog attack appears imminent, I take out my gun.....and shoot my cycling partner....let the dog go after him or her and I ride safely on! :) :)


Sandy

Kines
03-09-2009, 05:58 AM
Here's a coping strategy that I have yet to see fail:
When you think that you can't simply expediently get past the threatening animal, dismount, keep the bike between yourself and the animal as a shield, and vocalize toward it.

I'm going to try your advice next time. Except I'll save my voice and use pepper spray. Should be much easier to hit the vermin when not riding!

KN

Dekonick
03-09-2009, 08:53 AM
I actually have a coping mechanism even better than yours. I always ride with another cyclist. If a dog attack appears imminent, I take out my gun.....and shoot my cycling partner....let the dog go after him or her and I ride safely on! :) :)


Sandy

I just jam my frame pump in their spokes so I can easily out run him and the dog(s)!

Sandy
03-09-2009, 09:05 AM
Back to Brian's coping strategies- Ideally it would be best if the dog could associate a cyclist or a group of cyclists as a good thing. Perhaps as the group walked by the dog, someone could have a delicious treat for the dog. Just drop it near the dog and the dog will do the rest. He might start to associate good things with the group each time. Could do that solo too.

Of course if the delicious treat does not work, one could use a small package of C-4 explosives with a short time delay. It would save on treats too. :rolleyes: :)


Sandy

RPS
03-09-2009, 09:05 AM
Your replacement theory makes a great deal of sense. Why wouldn't making the owner pay medical expenses and other damages be a partial solution. Take money out of their wallets and they sill be more careful next time, I would assume.

SandyAs you say, that’s only a “partial” solution; and I’m not much on compromising with owners and their dogs that would rip your face off.

Restitution isn’t enough of a disincentive to make moron owners responsible. Having my medical bills paid or getting a new bike out of it doesn’t address my problems at all. I want to be able to ride anywhere there are roads without having to worry about being attacked.

To make a difference we have to go after the owners with far more force than a fine or financial penalty.

Sandy
03-09-2009, 10:00 AM
There actually is relatively little control over dogs/dog owners. That starts from the over breeding/indiscriminate breeding/intentional aggressive dog breeding, which produces so many dogs that millions have to be euthanized. Add to that the lack of training/care dogs often get and the motivation behind why certain breeds are often chosen, and disaster will undoubtedly continue to occur too often.

Riding in a rural area with lots of dogs with no limits or training and with irresponsible owners who just don't care, is often devastating for both the dogs and for someone who just wants to enjoy a safe bike ride. Sad.



Sandy

Elefantino
03-09-2009, 10:31 AM
Do not blame Georgia dogs. They're still trying to get over the Michael Vick thing.

Also, if you know that there are going to be dogs, or that there is going to be the possibility of dogs, on your ride, always take Cesar Millan with you.

And as for shooting your riding partner, let's see who is the next person brave enough to ride with Sandy.

Steelhead
03-09-2009, 11:20 AM
I'm a dog owner, too. One of my dogs became a fear biter and aggressively approached and snapped at a child's face, while I was there, trying to get to the dog to get her away from the child. It was both my mistake and the child's mistake. Still, I had the dog destroyed.

That is the appropriate response.


Maybe rather than having the dog "destroyed" (could you have come up with anything more cruel than that statement) why not turn the dog over to a rescue/shelter that might place it in a more appropriate home where it might not be at risk of bting and therefore not at risk of being "destroyed". :confused:

PaMtbRider
03-09-2009, 11:36 AM
someone could have a delicious treat for the dog. Just drop it near the dog and the dog will do the rest. He might start to associate good things with the group each time.

Sandy
Great, so now I have to carry treats with me to give to dogs that shouldn't be in the street in the first place. Now the dog will associate getting a treat with every passing cyclist. I'm not to sure that will discourage him from chasing more bikes. My experience has been a face full of pepper spray normally cures a dog from chasing me on future rides.

Kines
03-09-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm a dog owner, too. One of my dogs became a fear biter and aggressively approached and snapped at a child's face, while I was there, trying to get to the dog to get her away from the child. It was both my mistake and the child's mistake. Still, I had the dog destroyed.

That is the appropriate response.


Maybe rather than having the dog "destroyed" (could you have come up with anything more cruel than that statement) why not turn the dog over to a rescue/shelter that might place it in a more appropriate home where it might not be at risk of bting and therefore not at risk of being "destroyed". :confused:


As long as that foster home is on your ride route and not mine, I'm OK with it.
Otherwise, I'm with the "destroy" guy.

KN

bozman
03-09-2009, 11:56 AM
Also, if you know that there are going to be dogs, or that there is going to be the possibility of dogs, on your ride, always take Cesar Millan with you.



Any idea what he rides?

For my commutes through suburban Denver I started carrying this:

https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=P&Product_Code=3P

sloji
03-09-2009, 12:07 PM
My son was attacked by a neighbors dog and knocked off his bike, he was 4 years old. I ate the dog for dinner and washed it down with some Pinot.

Any dog that threatens you gives you the right to eat it and it doesn't matter if it's the owners fault...they will learn when their dog is supper.

Sandy
03-09-2009, 12:15 PM
Great, so now I have to carry treats with me to give to dogs that shouldn't be in the street in the first place. Now the dog will associate getting a treat with every passing cyclist. I'm not to sure that will discourage him from chasing more bikes. My experience has been a face full of pepper spray normally cures a dog from chasing me on future rides.

I am not saying that at all. I realize that chasing dogs are a genuine danger. You can take several approaches to the problem. Each makes his or her decision as to what to do. Pepper spray probably works quite well. My choice would be an entirely different approach.

The fact that the dog is "in the street in the first place" is reality. I understand that. The fact is that the dog could potentially cause serious injury. That is also reality.

I have always simply stopped and communicated to the dog. Thus far it has worked well for me. Maybe I have just been fortunate thus far. One can change the behavior of a dog or person in numerous ways. There are consequences to the dog and other people in subsequent situations also.

I am sorry if I seemed to judge your choice. Just not my choice.


Sandy

PS- Want to stop an unacceptable behavior in a dog. Beat him with a stick. Do that a few times (or even once) and no doubt he will never do it again. But that approach has potential consequences, not all so good. Reward him for changing his behavior to something acceptable also has consequences. Much better in the long run. Certainly looking at a snarling, growling dog aggressively approaching you limits your choices for sure.

Sandy
03-09-2009, 12:18 PM
I'm going to try your advice next time. Except I'll save my voice and use pepper spray. Should be much easier to hit the vermin when not riding!

KN

You really do have an extremely negative feeling for dogs. Maybe one day you could visit a local shelter and spend a few hours with some of the dogs. They are usually dogs that have been given up by their owners or have strayed. Intereact with them a bit and see if afterwards you feel so negative abou them.

Sandy

ajax
03-09-2009, 12:57 PM
The B word (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHome/your-dogs-bite-could-bankrupt-you.aspx?page=all)

Kines
03-09-2009, 01:36 PM
You really do have an extremely negative feeling for dogs. Maybe one day you could visit a local shelter and spend a few hours with some of the dogs. They are usually dogs that have been given up by their owners or have strayed. Intereact with them a bit and see if afterwards you feel so negative abou them.

Sandy


Does working for three years at a vet clinic count? It wasn't a shelter, but there were certainly a lot of unwanted dogs kenneled there at times. That experience is what started me down this path of dog hatred in the first place.

Sandy, you have done a great job in this thread of expressing your point of view without sounding offensive - you are obviously a nice person. I think I'm a pretty nice person, too, but I have made no effort in this thread to come across that way, which is really easy to do in an impersonal interaction on an internet forum. You are correct that I have very strong negative feelings about dogs, but I assure you that I am actually fairly tolerant in person. One of my best riding buddies has two big dogs, and I spend a fair amount of time with them, and we poke fun of my negativity, and I tolerate the dogs. Most of the stuff I'm writing here is tongue-in-cheek, and I don't intend to be taken too seriously.

KN

deechee
03-09-2009, 02:23 PM
ditto on the stopping and dealing with the dogs.

Trust me, I was attacked (well, probably just jumped on, but it felt scary back then) by a dog in my youth and was scared of them for a very long time. That said, I now love my gf's dad's farm dogs and play with them every chance I get. When they see me on the bike, they bark and go crazy, but once you're up in their faces all they want to do is play.

On the few occasions we've had random dogs chase after us on our bikes, my gf usually gives them a stern command and they usually stop, or even go back. I think most dogs understand the voice of authority (and hence, ignore my puny attempts).

I didn't know about this fear-biting thing, but I can agree I've met many dogs who bark in fear. They're more scared than you are - if you leave them their space/territory you'll be fine.

Steelhead
03-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Also a blast from the water bottle right in the face of a chasing dog will usually (has worked 100% for me, so far) turn them or at least shock them long enough to put enough distance on them that they will give up.

I'm not fond of aggressive dogs any more than the next guy. But I think the owner needs to take responsibility for his/her own animal. It's easy to get both sides of the emotional fence on this one. I'm respectfully bowing out - have fun.

RPS
03-09-2009, 03:09 PM
But I think the owner needs to take responsibility for his/her own animal.I agree, but see the need for us to hold owners accountable to a greater degree.

As an example, if all we do is sprint away from chasing dogs, that doesn’t send a message to the owners that there is much wrong – at least not until someone gets hurt and we end up in court. On the other hand, if we stopped and dealt with the dogs’ owners every single time the dogs chased, owners would get tired of dealing with irritated cyclists and do something about controlling the beasts.

I’m not suggesting confrontation, but we need to do something to send a message to owners that allowing their dogs to chase is not appropriate behavior.

ti_boi
03-09-2009, 03:33 PM
Your friend was lucky.....this could have been his fate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

Sandy
03-10-2009, 10:05 AM
Does working for three years at a vet clinic count? It wasn't a shelter, but there were certainly a lot of unwanted dogs kenneled there at times. That experience is what started me down this path of dog hatred in the first place.

Sandy, you have done a great job in this thread of expressing your point of view without sounding offensive - you are obviously a nice person. I think I'm a pretty nice person, too, but I have made no effort in this thread to come across that way, which is really easy to do in an impersonal interaction on an internet forum. You are correct that I have very strong negative feelings about dogs, but I assure you that I am actually fairly tolerant in person. One of my best riding buddies has two big dogs, and I spend a fair amount of time with them, and we poke fun of my negativity, and I tolerate the dogs. Most of the stuff I'm writing here is tongue-in-cheek, and I don't intend to be taken too seriously.

KN

Clearly one cannot tell who a person really is over the internet, especially if one masks the reality intentionally. The more one posts, the more likelihood one will better understand the person. I was making no judgement about you but was struck, by some of the words you used relative to dogs, how intensely you really do dislike dogs.

Working 3 years in a vet clinic (if you handled the dogs, especially) certainly gives you some genuine experience with dogs and other animals, and in a more professional setting. The problem is, I would think, that at a vet clinic you are viewing/interacting with the dogs in an environment that is extremely stressful to the dogs. Imagine being taken by someone, placed in a car, driven to some building, and have some person you have hardly met, poke at you, handle you, and sometimes hurt you, all at a time in whcih you feel sick or hurting. Then you are sometimes stuck in a little cage for hours, and your family you want to be with, are gone. How would you act? You have been with dogs in a highly stressful situation, for the dog, and probably sometimes for you.

My dog is a rescue dog that was in two shelters for a total of 8 months after he was seized from his owner for neglect. He still has a few issues that I am working on. There are 3 of us who live in my home (4 including my dog). Neither of the others are real dog people. My wife likes my dog a lot but doesn't share my love/concern for him that I do. My brother-in-law is a non- dog person who has little ability in interacting with dogs. Clearly there is a remarkable difference of feelings towards dogs (or other animals) by people. I am at one end of the spectrum, you at the other (on a relative basis). It doesn't make either of us right. In fact it is our right to have whatever feeling/perception of dogs as we want. Many factors develop the feelings one has relative to animals and people.



Sandy

Sandy
03-10-2009, 10:12 AM
ditto on the stopping and dealing with the dogs.

Trust me, I was attacked (well, probably just jumped on, but it felt scary back then) by a dog in my youth and was scared of them for a very long time. That said, I now love my gf's dad's farm dogs and play with them every chance I get. When they see me on the bike, they bark and go crazy, but once you're up in their faces all they want to do is play.

On the few occasions we've had random dogs chase after us on our bikes, my gf usually gives them a stern command and they usually stop, or even go back. I think most dogs understand the voice of authority (and hence, ignore my puny attempts).

I didn't know about this fear-biting thing, but I can agree I've met many dogs who bark in fear. They're more scared than you are - if you leave them their space/territory you'll be fine.

Excellent points. Your gf does what I do relative to dogs. I do stop if I have sufficient time. Most often, I will wind up petting the chasing dog after it stops and comes over to me (if it does).


Stopping Stroking Sandy

BumbleBeeDave
03-10-2009, 10:14 AM
Imagine being taken by someone, placed in a car, driven to some building, and have some person you have hardly met, poke at you, handle you, and sometimes hurt you . . .

I've heard there are people in NYC who will pay to have that done to them. :eek:

Sorry . . . couldn't resist! ;)

BBD

Sandy
03-10-2009, 10:23 AM
I've heard there are people in NYC who will pay to have that done to them. :eek:

Sorry . . . couldn't resist! ;)

BBD

In actuality, that is precisley how I met Kevan!! :) :)


:banana: Still Suffering Sandy :banana:

RABikes2
03-10-2009, 10:55 AM
As it is, the only dog bite cases I have dealt with were under local ordnance, not state law. In all cases, the dog owner was held liable for lack of control. One of these cases was a dog attack on a cyclist. I'd still consider a civil suit against the owner, in addition, I'd demand impound of the dog.

It sucks. It's not cut and dry, things happen within a matter of seconds. No time to react to surprise attacks, unable to stop quickly enough, yelling (or talking) at the dog, or spraying water at them. In 25 years of riding, I've done the yelling, spraying, and sprinting. Not just here where I live now, but wherever I lived, was racing, doing brevets, or visiting to bike, I would do what was needed to get away from the dog(s).

However, the three bad encounters w/ dogs I've had happened in just the past few years. I think you're familiar with all three locations, Michael. I had to think about how my suing actions (civil) would/could affect other cyclists, me included. In all these cases, the sheriff or cop involved did have long talks with the owners and would revisit the owners once or twice afterward to reiterate the seriousness and the consequences of their dog's running loose.

-In 2006, I was out on one of the Havana Hills roads (Gadsden County). German Shepherd charged out from behind a house and ran between another cyclist and me. The dog missed the guy in front, but turned quickly and nailed my left calf. Stitches were required. The homeowner's insurance policy had a 'no dog bite' clause in it and they claimed the dog wasn't theirs. No proof of rabies shots either. The quarantine was keeping the dog on a 10' rope in the backyard for two weeks.

-Five months later, I was cycling on Lower Hawthorne going towards Calvary, GA (I was in GA this time). Two dogs hidden in trees and bushes bolted out, one stopped at the road, but the other crossed in front and immediately came back w/ intentions of ramming me. In a flash (I was going approximately 19 mph), I was on the ground w/ a concussion, whiplash, scrapes, destroyed shorts and Giro helmet. The owners claimed it wasn't their dog's fault. There was no leash law in the county.

-This past June 2008, I was at a four way stop sign in Havana. Havana is a small town specializing in antique stores and art galleries right before the GA border. A woman was walking w/ her kid about 15' from me (they had already crossed the street) and their unleashed dog was across the street, approximately 20' from me. I slowed to stop for the stop sign. The dog had looked over at me and I asked the lady three times to make sure she had control of her dog. I was beginning to move through the intersection by this time, the dog circled and came in from behind me and nailed my left calf. He showed no warning signs, no aggressiveness, no growling, no charging, only that initial look at me. Havana has a leash law, but there are no consequences except for a warning if the law is broken. The cop and sheriff that came knew me and an ambulance came to clean out the wound immediately. Shot records were checked and the owners were given a warning ... whatever the flip good that did.

In all three cases, I was injured and had property damage in one. In all three cases I visited David Fonvielle (an attorney and cyclist in town) and was told in all three that I'd have to file a civil suit against the party(s).
The first two incidents, it was obvious that the homeowners weren't the friendly type and didn't own much. The only thing that could come of it would be a nightmare chance that cyclists would be hassled in the future by these yahoos if I sued. David wrote legal letters to both of them stating that I had injuries and they were at fault.

In the accident last June, the people were renters of a good friend's elderly parents. So, if I sued the homeowners insurance, I'd be suing my friend's parents and not the people who walked their dog unleashed. The dog owners owned very little.

Again, my biggest worry in regard to a civil suit in the first two was the possibility of one of these jokers taking it out on cyclist(s) they might encounter in the future. This area is country, small rural towns and big open spaces, many long miles in-between towns. It's where I live and bike. My schedule allows for me to ride many solo miles (plus I'm not into big group rides). On the weekends, lots of cyclists from Tallahassee will come out here to begin their rides because of the open roads. If I sued, I felt I could possibly be opening myself (or other cyclists) to future retaliation. It's a wonderful and beautiful place to bike, but it takes just one ticked person to make a good place an unpleasant place.

After the letters sent by my attorney and the revisits from the sheriff, none of these dogs came out again. But hell, there are others that will and there will always be somebody's dog chasing. I agree and it ticks me off that people don't care enough about their dogs to keep them safe, and us safe from them, but that is life in the country where leash laws don't always have an affect. A month ago, I had to pass a yard in the middle of nowhere, where there were two small puppies in the yard looking out at the road. There laid a third puppy recently killed by a car and the pups were just staring at him. Where were the owners? Inside probably totally unaware and uncaring.

For the record, since the internet doesn't tell us and many might think I'm a 5'11" man and "what the hell is wrong with this guy writing this crap" ... I am not. I'm a 54yo, 5'4" female, who is known in the area around here (after 15 years) as "Oh yeah, you're the lady with the long braid who bikes long miles all the time." I love animals and along with my 18 yo son, we (I) have taken in as part of the family two (abandoned) wonderful dogs (who are extremely protective of us) and two wonderful (adopted) cats.

I'm sorry for anybody who has been injured by a dog running into a pack of cyclists. That is an extremely scary and dangerous situation. On brevets last year in Bonifay, riders were teasing me that the dogs would bypass 2 or 3 other riders just to chase after me. Is it my perfume maybe or do my calves just look that inviting? ;)

RA

Sandy
03-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Wonderful post. After reading it, one certainly has a better feel for the real dangers and problems that exist because of dogs that chase/attack cyclists. Necessitates, especially in certain areas, an awareness of the potential ramifictions of such an event, the sudden occurrence, and often the total inability of the cyclist to prevent it. I certainly can understand why some feel as they do about dogs, especially if they have personally been involved in an accident/attack/bite incident or has seen one.

I know how much you care about your dogs, but your personal experience must temper your thoughts some.

Hope thay you and your entire family are well.


Sandy

RABikes2
03-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Yesterday me and a couple friends were out for a ride in semi-rural Georgia. About 55 miles into the ride, we were chased by a big dog. My friend, who was pulling at the time, ended up in a ditch with a fractured collarbone, broken ribs and a host of other injuries. He is ok but will be off the bike for a while, will have a lump on his shoulder that can be surgically removed for cosmetic reasons but is not a medical condition per se, and his bike will need some work.
Thanks.
What's the update on your buddy JM? Hope things worked out for him and he's feeling better.
RA

coopdog
03-17-2009, 09:54 PM
Not sure if someone already posted this, but this lady faces a felony for allowing her dogs to cause a bike crash-

http://www.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/sullivan_county_pet_owner_will_face_charges_after_ woman_was_injured_in_bicy/18379/