Frame Builder Genealogy

[Lifelover]

Is there any good resource frame builder "genealogy"?

I think it would be interesting to see how many of them have had crossed careers.

I know there are lines from Ben down to Ellis cycles, Kirk Frameworks and KB.

I think Ben, Sachs and Peter W. all came through Witcomb.

I suspect there are a varity of builders that came from/through Schwinn/Waterford?

[garysol1]

There is a quite interesting interview by the Two Johns Podcast located here...
http://www.twojohnspodcast.missingsaddle.com/2009/03/01/02282009-podcast-special/
They interview Kent Erikson, Mark Nobilette & Peter Weigle and discuss the genealogy with each guy. The show is about 1 hour in length.

[Waldo]

Don't even start people talking about Masi. OK, I will... in no particular order the following built California Masis

1. Mario Confente
2. Brian Baylis
3. Dave Tesch
4. Rob Roberson
5. Dave Moulton
6. Joe Starck
7. Albert Eisentraut
8. Bruce Gordon

Whom did I forget?

[TMB]

Don't even start people talking about Masi. OK, I will... in no particular order the following built California Masis

1. Mario Confente
2. Brian Baylis
3. Dave Tesch
4. Rob Roberson
5. Dave Moulton
6. Joe Starck
7. Albert Eisentraut
8. Bruce Gordon

Whom did I forget?

Faliero Masi???

[e-RICHIE]

atmo - XXX (http://serotta.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15583&postcount=4)

[palincss]

It's wonderful to see how the Bike Boom continues to echo through our cycling culture.

[Ken Robb]

check out the history of match bicycles to see some heros in their earlier days.

[happycampyer]

check out the history of match bicycles to see some heros in their earlier days.When I was in the process of getting a Cinghiale Pro a while back, I was talking with Steve Hampsten about match—the cast of characters that came out of there is impressive. Tim Isaac (founder), Kirk Pacenti, Curt Goodrich, Martin Tweedy, hampco, Mark Bulgier and others I can't recall.

[Smiley]

Did ATMO and Chris Chance hang out in England together at one time?

[e-RICHIE]

Did ATMO and Chris Chance hang out in England together at one time?


read my post -
he came years later, and was only in the connecticut gig after we hired and trained him. lucky for all the future seven, merlin, IF, etc owners too atmo.

later.

[sokyroadie]

Don't even start people talking about Masi. OK, I will... in no particular order the following built California Masis

1. Mario Confente
2. Brian Baylis
3. Dave Tesch
4. Rob Roberson
5. Dave Moulton
6. Joe Starck
7. Albert Eisentraut
8. Bruce Gordon

Whom did I forget?

Keith Lippy

And there is one for sale on this forum as we speak.

Jeff

[Smiley]

So where is Chris Chance now? What ever happened to the Shock A Billy full suspension MTB's anybody still have one. Yo Eddy was my Fav :)

[RudAwkning]

So sad about Mario Confente. So young.

http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2008/02/mario-confente.html

Roland Della Santa still has some of his tooling that he loans out to other builders in the community, including a Campagnolo Cambio Corsa jig!

[Waldo]

Faliero Masi???

I'm not sure that Faliero himself ever built in California (see original post). Certainly, he visited the Carlsbad facility, but I'm not sure whether he wielded a torch on this side of the Atlantic.

[Vancouverdave]

When I was in the process of getting a Cinghiale Pro a while back, I was talking with Steve Hampsten about match—the cast of characters that came out of there is impressive. Tim Isaac (founder), Kirk Pacenti, Curt Goodrich, Martin Tweedy, hampco, Mark Bulgier and others I can't recall.
Mark Bulgier's history before Match included Santana, R&E Cycles (Rodriguez/Erickson) and Davidson. Curt Goodrich was also an R&E builder as well as Dave Levy (Ti Cycles) Jeff Lyon, and a few others. If you're talking bike maker family trees, R&E is a significant branch.

[Doug Fattic]

No, there isn't any organized information dedicated to American framebuilders history that I know of. I keep trying to talk various people I know into doing this. Here is a bit of information I'm familiar with.

A lot of branches of the framebuilders family tree of knowledge comes from framebuilding classes. The father of all modern American builders, Albert Eisentraut, taught classes in various parts of the country in the 70's. Among those taking his classes was Bruce Gordon and Mark Nobilette. As I understand it, he was a certified high school teacher and was inspired by Oscar Wastyn - who made the first Schwinn Paramounts - in Chicago. Tim Paterek - who is best known for writing the framebuilders manual - at one time also taught classes. His students include Sacha White of Vanilla bicycles and Ron Sutphin the head teacher at UBI (United Bicycle Institute). They have taught a ton of builders including Dave Bohm and Drew Guldalian of Engin Cycles.

I've been teaching framebuilding classes since 1976. Like Eisentraut, I was a certified high school teacher before apprenticing in England. In the beginning most of my students just wanted to make a frame for themselves but now they want to make more than just that. One of my students Dan Polito just won Best of Show at NAHBS. He was an editor and has talked to me about possibly writing a history of modern American builders. Another student of mine Mitch Pryor won best city bike at NAHBS this year.

Another tree are the Americans that went to England in the 70's. Besides the ones already mentioned is Matt Assenmacher of Swartz Creek, Michigan that learned at Bob Jackson. Peter Mooney at Ron Cooper and Jeff Lyon stayed in England a long time and learned from a couple of builders.

There are also some smaller trees of some significance. Bill Boston did a summer tour of English builders and taught Jim Redcay who begat Tom Kellogg. Jim suggested I should try using a Binks Billows gravity feed spray gun (a Binks subsidiary in England). At the time most Americans used a siphon feed gun - especially car guys. I later learned Jim also got this idea from Bill who learned about this gun in his England travels. A gravity feed gun is common now but was a novelty back then.

And then there is the additional learning curves besides just torch knowledge. I learned to weld titanium from Gary Helfrich at UBI (as did a dozen other established steel builders). I also taught well established builders like Dave Bohm and Curt Goodrich how to paint.

It is a pretty big tree and I talked about just a few of the branches in my vicinity.

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michigan

[WadePatton]

Wow, thanks Doug. That's a good start for a few chapters of any book on the subject. Great to see you at the show too.

[RudAwkning]

No, there isn't any organized information dedicated to American framebuilders history that I know of. I keep trying to talk various people I know into doing this. Here is a bit of information I'm familiar with.

A lot of branches of the framebuilders family tree of knowledge comes from framebuilding classes. The father of all modern American builders, Albert Eisentraut, taught classes in various parts of the country in the 70's. Among those taking his classes was Bruce Gordon and Mark Nobilette. As I understand it, he was a certified high school teacher and was inspired by Oscar Wastyn - who made the first Schwinn Paramounts - in Chicago. Tim Paterek - who is best known for writing the framebuilders manual - at one time also taught classes. His students include Sacha White of Vanilla bicycles and Ron Sutphin the head teacher at UBI (United Bicycle Institute). They have taught a ton of builders including Dave Bohm and Drew Guldalian of Engin Cycles.

I've been teaching framebuilding classes since 1976. Like Eisentraut, I was a certified high school teacher before apprenticing in England. In the beginning most of my students just wanted to make a frame for themselves but now they want to make more than just that. One of my students Dan Polito just won Best of Show at NAHBS. He was an editor and has talked to me about possibly writing a history of modern American builders. Another student of mine Mitch Pryor won best city bike at NAHBS this year.

Another tree are the Americans that went to England in the 70's. Besides the ones already mentioned is Matt Assenmacher of Swartz Creek, Michigan that learned at Bob Jackson. Peter Mooney at Ron Cooper and Jeff Lyon stayed in England a long time and learned from a couple of builders.

There are also some smaller trees of some significance. Bill Boston did a summer tour of English builders and taught Jim Redcay who begat Tom Kellogg. Jim suggested I should try using a Binks Billows gravity feed spray gun (a Binks subsidiary in England). At the time most Americans used a siphon feed gun - especially car guys. I later learned Jim also got this idea from Bill who learned about this gun in his England travels. A gravity feed gun is common now but was a novelty back then.

And then there is the additional learning curves besides just torch knowledge. I learned to weld titanium from Gary Helfrich at UBI (as did a dozen other established steel builders). I also taught well established builders like Dave Bohm and Curt Goodrich how to paint.

It is a pretty big tree and I talked about just a few of the branches in my vicinity.

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michigan

Sweet. I'll glean some more information on Eisentraut from Dennis Stone, shop owner of Stone's Cyclery, tomorrow. He's got tons of Albert Eisentraut and Bruce Gordon stories.

[Lifelover]

...... He was an editor and has talked to me about possibly writing a history of modern American builders. .....


It would most likely have to be a labor of love, but what a timeless resource it would be.

Who knows, if you scattered enough high quality frame pics in it, it might just be profitable.

On a side note: Your post helps explain how you were able to pull off the Multi Builder frame. How is it coming? Would Love to see pics.

[soulspinner]

atmo - XXX (http://serotta.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15583&postcount=4)


Thanks 4 that-great to know about Chris.

[old_school]

I love this stuff. Off the top of my head, in the East Coast ...

[torquer]

So where is Chris Chance now? ...Yo Eddy was my Fav :)
As the owner of an early-80's lugged CC road frame, I asked about him a few years ago when i was considering a "modern" (i.e. TIGed) frame; what I heard, he gave up on the bike biz after the Serotta buy-out and relocation up to Saratoga didn't work out. He was operating a bed-and-breakfast in New England, according to the story I was told. Nobody was able to provide any contact info, though. Definitely a loss to the industry, but a decision I can understand nonetheless.

[David Kirk]

Ben Serotta
|
Bob Stowe - Joe Williams - Dave Kirk - Dave Wages - Kelly Bedford




dave

[Ray]

Ben Serotta
|
Bob Stowe - Joe Williams - Dave Kirk - Dave Wages - Kelly Bedford




dave
I didn't realize Joe Williams came through Serotta. When and about how long was he there? He had his own shop in a shed behind my favorite bike shop in the middle of freaking NOwhere in Amish / Mennonite country. In Floyd Landis' neck of the woods and not too far from mine. Used to help out in the shop when they were busy and he wasn't. Did a lot of repairs too. I haven't seen him in a few years, at least. He did some wild bikes. I recall something with a frog (or perhaps a toad) sculpted into the downtube. Not a bad guy, but he had a quick trigger. I saw him go off on a couple of people for not much of an apparent reason. He never did any more damage than a snide comment or two in my direction.

-Ray

[David Kirk]

I didn't realize Joe Williams came through Serotta. When and about how long was he there? He had his own shop in a shed behind my favorite bike shop in the middle of freaking NOwhere in Amish / Mennonite country. In Floyd Landis' neck of the woods and not too far from mine. Used to help out in the shop when they were busy and he wasn't. Did a lot of repairs too. I haven't seen him in a few years, at least. He did some wild bikes. I recall something with a frog (or perhaps a toad) sculpted into the downtube. Not a bad guy, but he had a quick trigger. I saw him go off on a couple of people for not much of an apparent reason. He never did any more damage than a snide comment or two in my direction.

-Ray

Joe did have a quick trigger. He may still for all I know. He was at Serotta when I started in 1989 but was there for only a year or two past that. A good heart in a difficult guy.

Dave

[old_school]

Interesting info, Dave.
I remember Pucci selling Stowes in his old shop ... didn't realize Bob Stowe was a Serotta alumni.
Also, IIRC, Ben Serotta was trained at Witcomb UK - as was Sachs & Weigle.

[Fwish21]

I just bought a Phase 3 Cycles Bob Stowe bike today. Anyone know what he is doing these days? Last I was told is that he was making metal furniture or metal art. Anyone have an update?

[palincss]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned match. Goodrich and others came from there.

[happycampyer]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned match. Goodrich and others came from there.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=644655&postcount=8

[jvp]

Where/when does Fonvielle Mclean fit into the mix? I know he went to England, then returned - did he then work alone?

[gdw]

He was making mtb frames in England in the 90's and was supposed to be a Serotta alum.

[JFW]

I think he sold off his tooling a couple of months ago on ebay.

Truls